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2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | Biden Mulls Abrams as Running Mate

Oct 25, 2017
5,493
The fact you don't have universal heathcare to begin with? So it's incredibly misleading for a politician to talk about achieving that by not achieving that?
Multi-payer is a means to achieve it. Anyone uninsured would receive government healthcare. Germany had private funds before going multi-payer.

Like how fucking hard is it to say "Brexit bad"

Jesus
Seriously.
 
Oct 25, 2017
31,609
Like how fucking hard is it to say "Brexit bad"

Jesus
I could write for Beto!

Beto on Feeding the homeless:

" I believe we must properly research the balanced diet required, triple check we have the right recipes, consult with the right cooks, makes sure we don't have too many cooks, and finally have a conversation with local governments to see if we even have the distribution channels set up"
 
Nov 7, 2017
11,745
"Setting your economy on fire to spite the immigrants is poor policy that they should not go through with it" should not be a hard thing to say

This for me is the most disqualifying thing about Beto apart from supporting Will Hurd and not being a team player with the DCCC
Yeah especially since he ran on immigration primarily a few months ago. Dude is hopefully toast. The clickbait article title calling him the candidate for vapid morons is slowly and sadly becoming more true each time he opens his mouth.
 
Nov 7, 2017
11,745
Mr. O'Rourke, what would you do about Aleppo?

Well it's a city with people in it and we should save as many people as we can because in the end. We are all people.


/crowd cheers
 

Neon Noir

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,260
Multi-payer is a means to achieve it. Anyone uninsured would receive government healthcare. Germany had private funds before going multi-payer.
So you want the US to adopt the german healthcare system. Which is universal healthcare. Which is not what Beto was talking about.
 

intheflorsh

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
515
Right. So, what's the problem with multi-payer then?
It seems like it would create a scenario where the best medical talent all goes towards the private sector leaving the public option the scraps. It's not too crazy to imagine an America where public health care exists but is massively substandard to private insurance given the power of the medical industry.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,831
Okay. Where can I read up on the other candidates opinion of a failing "movement" in another country? Google's not helping me here.
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/...d-left-internationalism-with-yanis-varoufakis
VICE: Can you start by telling me about your trip over to the US. What plans do you have in the pipeline with Bernie?
Yanis Varoufakis:
To begin with, an internationalist progressive agenda has been in the offing and desperately needed for quite a while now. In my estimation of the state of play globally, 2008 [the financial crash] was a momentous instant. It changed the world. Nothing that has been happening since 2008 makes sense anymore in terms of the conventional wisdom before 2008.

On the one hand we have a very effective internationalism practiced by members of the financial community. They have banded together to protect their individual interests – not the interests of the financial sector, but their individual interests – and that has shifted the burden of the crisis onto the shoulders of those who had never had organisational capacities beyond the limits of the nation state, and who very quickly became the victims of this cynical shifting of the burden of the bank’s losses, also known as austerity. That bred discontent, discontent bred a second wave of internationalism among the xenophobic, racist neo-fascistic right. Steve Bannon’s sojourn across Europe is just one example of how they are banding together and internationalising.

So some of us have been arguing for a while that progressives must internationalise too. And we must juxtapose internationalism against globalism.
Can't speak for the other candidates but I'm pretty confident in a future Sander-Corbyn-Varoufakis Axis of Socialism whether he wins or not.

Yanis actually echoes some of my own thoughts here:
Do you think it’s important that Bernie runs for president again?
...

Okay, so people say what about his age – it is true. But on the other hand, none of the other people that have risen up in the wake of Bernie Sanders’ revolution are up to the task yet of running for president. This is why it is important that he throws caution to the wind, defers his retirement and runs one more time, to sustain the burgeoning progressive movement in the US.
 

Neon Noir

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,260
It seems like it would create a scenario where the best medical talent all goes towards the private sector leaving the public option the scraps. It's not too crazy to imagine an America where public health care exists but is massively substandard to private insurance given the power of the medical industry.
That's already the case in most places in western europe and I guess canada too. It's not sustainable since most people don't go to specialists and spend absurd amounts of money unless they want shit like private surface surgery.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,493
So you want the US to adopt the german healthcare system. Which is universal healthcare. Which is not what Beto was talking about.
I'm using it as an example (And Beto hasn't been all that specific, but a medicare public option could damn well be universal healthcare). There are also entirely private healthcare solutions where it's just a well-regulated insurance market, like Norway or Switzerland, which are some of the best health systems in the world. My point is that single payer or bust is an incredibly narrow mindset.

It seems like it would create a scenario where the best medical talent all goes towards the private sector leaving the majority of Americans with the scraps. It's not too crazy to imagine an America where public health care exists but is massively substandard to private insurance given the power of the medical industry.
I went over this earlier in the thread, but over 50% of the populace are in a position where picking a public option would be a no-brainer or would be instantly switched over as they're in the public exchanges, have no insurance, or are on medicare/medicaid. Which is not a majority that can be ignored.

Additionally, you can always add in a bit to the legislation that forces all medical clinics to accept the public option.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,493
I fucking can't with Beto's Brexit answer

Also release your fucking tax returns. Honestly, don't declare unless you have them ready.
I can accept it taking him a month or two for the tax returns, but yeah that Brexit answer was stupid. Even if you wanted to avoid talking about it you could do it better by just saying "Well, it's a sensitive situation and I don't want to dip too far into a domestic issue of an allied country. I sincerely hope that the best solution for both Britain and the European Union comes out" or some such.
 

Neon Noir

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,260
I'm using it as an example (And Beto hasn't been all that specific, but a medicare public option could damn well be universal healthcare). There are also entirely private healthcare solutions where it's just a well-regulated insurance market, like Norway or Switzerland, which are some of the best health systems in the world. My point is that single payer or bust is an incredibly narrow mindset.
All the hospitals in norway are funded by public funds.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,144
Chicagoland
He's wrong too!

I dunno man what about Bernie hmm? Is probably the last move I'd try to use on me. lol
Him and Hillary are the only past/canidates we have an answer from. I'm not trying to single you out as a supporter. Both answered to the tune of
“I’ll let the people of the U.K. make that decision,”
I'm sure you'd see a similar answer from any other current candidate.
Brexit is shit, a flop, and going nowhere slow. I'm not sure what else there is to it from a US presidential candidate perspective.

Edit: seriously fuck posting on mobile. Lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
31,609
He also backed away from his earlier position that some fences that have already been built on the border should be taken down. this should be the end of any talk of him running "left" of Bernie on any issue.

meanwhile:
Good shit

Meanwhile
Beto on Unions:

"I support unions, unions are great, people coming together, uniting, for everybody. Union represents working together, I'm a capitalist, I'd happily form a union with the American People by accepting their votes for me. Unity is about union, we must unite, from all walks of life to be together, we don't need a workers union, we need a union of the American People"
 
Oct 29, 2017
916
This thread is highly entertaining. He doesn't have a position on Brexit and hasn't released his tax returns 36 hours into his campaign? What a f'ing monster!

Some of you have no chill.
 

Neon Noir

Banned
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,260
I'm confused. A few posts ago you were saying the public/private status of clinics and hospitals was irrelevant.
Never suggested that. I thought your entire argument to begin with hinged on the productivity of public and private healthcare? Beto O'Rourke has never suggested he wants to insure all his fellow citizens. Nothing about his career as a politician or belief system suggests he believes in private healthcare, or anything, beings its own good. Why are you defending him so hard?
 
Oct 25, 2017
31,609
This thread is highly entertaining. He doesn't have a position on Brexit and hasn't released his tax returns 36 hours into his campaign? What a f'ing monster!

Some of you have no chill.
"I have asked my people to look into, chill, and if it is worth having, I believe Americans are concerned about climate change but I am also unsure of how to proceed, I believe it will take more than one man, or one party, to discover how much or how little chill to have."
 
Mar 9, 2018
1,612
I think people are just exasperated since it seems to be a pattern with this person. I think. I don't know. I'll get back to you on that. Maybe. We live in the greatest country on earth.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,780
I like Beto a lot but I’ll be the first to admit his rollout has been less than stellar. I thought PSA actually had a very measured take on him running this week.
 

intheflorsh

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
515
I went over this earlier in the thread, but over 50% of the populace are in a position where picking a public option would be a no-brainer or would be instantly switched over as they're in the public exchanges, have no insurance, or are on medicare/medicaid. Which is not a majority that can be ignored.

Additionally, you can always add in a bit to the legislation that forces all medical clinics to accept the public option.
If you're going to legislate the public option to be equivalent to the quality of private insurance, why even have a private option? Would it just be for cosmetic surgeries and the like?

And I doubt that would actually be possible, as long as a profit motive exists the door is always open for exploitation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,493
Never suggested that. I thought your entire argument to begin with hinged on the productivity of public and private healthcare? Beto O'Rourke has never suggested he wants to insure all his fellow citizens. Nothing about his career as a politician or belief system suggests he believes in private healthcare, or anything, beings its own good. Why are you defending him so hard?
Read my posts over the last two pages and get back to me on whether or not I'm defending Beto. But I'm not sure what's so hard to believe that he's in favor of universal healthcare? Like, even from a purely cold calculating perspective, why would you even do a healthcare overhaul as a democrat if your intention wasn't to insure everyone? If you can't point to a "uninsured numbers" have decreased to 0.2% bit, then what's the point? You certainly haven't won more voters.

If you're going to legislate the public option to be equivalent to the quality of private insurance, why even have a private option? Would it just be for cosmetic surgeries and the like?

And I doubt that would actually be possible, as long as a profit motive exists the door is always open for exploitation.
You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm saying you could legislate that the public option be accepted at clinics. Not legislate equivalent quality. That would be stupid.