I agree. I'm leaning towards Buttigieg out of all of the candidates so far, so I hope he does really well. If not, I'll settle for Bernie as the nominee.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | Hickenlooper makes it to the debate
- Thread starter pigeon
- Start date
- Status
I agree. I'm leaning towards Buttigieg out of all of the candidates so far, so I hope he does really well. If not, I'll settle for Bernie as the nominee.
Beto's debating skills are pretty average, although he did have a much stronger showing in the second debate. Pete would run circles around Beto in a debate, but I'm not sure that matters.
I wanna clarify. The issue isn't solely that he's a centrist, the issue is he's a centrist with virtually 0 plans, opinions or policies.
How can you determine someone is a centrist if they have no plans, opinions, or policies?
The comparisons don't just end at him being a charismatic white guy either. Buttigeig is all about having a more progressive take on the no-labels pro-rural messaging and a non-committal technocratic view on policy. But Buttigeig sounds like a human when he talks about it because he doesn't try to hide the values that would be the driving force behind everything he does.
That's not fair.
He's a chipotle aioli. He sounds more interesting on the surface.
One might argue, including me occasionally, that having no plans, opinions, or policies can be part of being a centrist. Stand for nothing, vote for whatever's convenient.
People on the left or the right tend to have solid convictions however much you agree or disagree with them. People in the middle, especially "moderate centrists", have few convictions at all except "let's work together".
Right, but I've seen him say over the past couple days that we need to act on climate change now, he wants universal healthcare, he wants to double the minimum wage, etc. So I guess, I'm just not sure where this "he has no positions" argument is coming from, or that he's a centrist. Is he a centrist because he wants to represent the country and not just Democrats? Is he a centrist because he's not a Democratic Socialist? What's the line here? His voting record has him solidly with the majority of Democrats.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/beto_orourke/412575
I think the Democratic majority or "mean" or even "median" is centrist, maybe center-left when I'm feeling charitable. It's fine you don't need to pay attention to me. I think anyone's who's not anti-capitalism is a centrist or has centrist tendencies (as people on the center-left do).
That's not how it works. That's not how it works at all. You can't call 60% of the population right wing, 35% centrist and 5% (and I'm being generous about the number of anti-capitalism believers) left wing. "centrist" means near the center of a political spectrum.
And they're all close to the center because Bernie, Ilhan and AOC define the "left extremity" now. There are non-politicians who're even lefter than this batch, they're just not politically viable.
Political beliefs are not defined by options presentable at the time, or else 44% of germans should have been killed at the end of world war 2 for good measure.
They're centrist by virtue of their capitulation to PACs, to corporate interests, their support of banks during the financial crisis, their support of Israel, their funding of wars, their interventionist voting records, their refusal to call out white nationalism for what it is, their censuring of Maxine Waters and Omar Ilhan for breaking the norms of "civility", their general focus on decorum over substance, union ambivalence, incremental reformism, etc. It goes on.
No, I understand that view and why someone like Beto would not really be exciting to that group. I meant more of in general, I guess, I see people trying to peg him as Joe Biden 2.0 when he clearly isn't. It's like the only two lanes people think exist are Biden or Bernie.
Centrist means nothing in particular. It's an average of positions or a self-assigned moniker. A centrist like Bloomberg can have extreme positions from both sides(nanny state, extremely pro-corporate, anti-gun type) so they become a centrist in aggregate. Then you have a Bill Clinton who really is a centrist in the sense that his policy positions are more of an average rather than exclusively left or right.
And then you have both siders that just say that they're inbetween to justify not knowing anything. And there's everything inbetween those extremes.
And the overall problem with the left right spectrum is that it's really an overly simplistic measure and its use wastes everyone involved's time because of its subjectivity.
And then you have both siders that just say that they're inbetween to justify not knowing anything. And there's everything inbetween those extremes.
And the overall problem with the left right spectrum is that it's really an overly simplistic measure and its use wastes everyone involved's time because of its subjectivity.
I know Harris and Buttigieg exist and Beto is no Buttigieg, not even a Harris. Of all the frontrunners, Beto is the closest to Biden, maybe he competes for that slot with Gillibrand but Gillibrand is kind of a non-presence in my mind.
We're not gonna get far here. You call everyone to the right of Sanders a centrist. That just doesn't reflect the reality accurately.
His rollout is a disaster. It's clear he scrambled to get the campaign going last minute.
Closest thing to it. And he was a beast in the 70's and 80's.
It doesn't need to, it only needs to reflect my views. I've listed some of the positions that matter to me, and how I view the world. If you want to publicly argue that supporting AIPAC can still be "left" in a relative sense, hey, knock yourself out. I'm going to be opposed to you on that though, forewarning.
Eh. To me, Beto and Kamala are pretty interchangeable on their positions. She's more left on education than Beto, but more right on income inequality. Their other policies line up, for the most part.
Pete is left of both of them, for sure.
So as somebody who really doesn't pay attention the two candidates I'm excited for are Warren and Harris. Anybody else I should keep an eye on?
Beto seems more like a VP nominee right now from the little I've seen. I appreciate his optimism and positive rhetoric but I worry he might be too centrist for me. Based on not nearly enough info though.
Beto seems more like a VP nominee right now from the little I've seen. I appreciate his optimism and positive rhetoric but I worry he might be too centrist for me. Based on not nearly enough info though.
Nah. World is composed of more than first world countries and even then it doesn't hold in europe where right/centrist means austerity which the democrats are not for.
Beto's a white man, Harris is a black woman. This immediately puts Beto far closer to Biden than Harris.
Buttigieg is probably a dark horse.
(obligatory Bernie 2020 here)
Don't mistake Bernie fans jumping on him for an accurate depiction of his popularity. I doubt anything changed since his announcement.
They're running a presidential campaign in the US. I think the "compared to europe everything is right wing" schtick is an oversimplification, but it's also just not relevant here.
I don't know how that remotely relates to the fact that the idea that everyone who disagrees with you is therefore a "centrist" or whatever dumbass pointless label people are using is ridiculously out of touch with reality.
Pete Buttigieg. Genuinely progressive candidate who deserves a hell of a lot more attention than he's getting now. Very articulate and smart as a whip, too.
I just don't think you should be so quick to label things fantasy or dismiss them out of hand. Maybe there is something to these radical ideas you scoff at.
https://www.cnbc.com/id/48913712
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-with-pelosi-in-key-early-vote-for-democrats
They, as a bloc, are Keynesian sympathists at best.
They're not whole-hog Austrian School-Hayek Paintings but they're not exactly the New Deal Democrats anymore (and indeed this is the role AOC is carving out for herself).
No, I'm pretty sure there isn't. I'll continue to live in the actual world.
There is no near term reality wherein the US, or really any Western liberal democracy becomes "anti-capitalist".
There isn't even support for it, even if there was political leadership.
It's nice to want things, I guess.
Thanks, I'm going to try to educate myself a little more by the time of the primaries.
Thanks, I'll definitely try to look him up and get some perspective. I hope this isn't a jerk question, but while I like Bernie is he too idealistic or do you think his views are practical enough in 2021 to work given the opposition?
(Vague, I'm sorry, but I don't want to pretend to be more kbow
Not explicitly. But you can work your way up to it. No better start than Bernie Sanders, a candidate who has vehemently opposed capitalism for most of his political life.
Sure, why do you think I support it? Because I want to make it happen, and it's going to take a long time so I better start now.
Like, waiting until common opinion already shifted to jump onto an anti-cap bandwagon is the job of moderates and independents, but starting that bandwagon is the job of leftists, like I consider myself to be.
It'll be an uphill climb for sure but for me it's worth starting, because our problems don't end in 2021. There's 2024, 2028, 2032, and so on. If 2021 is your focus, Bernie may not be your best choice, and I don't mean that in a dick way.
I'm completely clueless about him at the moment, but this was beautiful. I for one appreciate you sharing this.
- Status