He has plenty of positions, regardless of how Bernie supporters like to try and paint him as some vanilla gelatinous blob.
2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | Hickenlooper makes it to the debate
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Right I just mean for me personally I would happily vote for either Sanders or Buttigieg (assuming Buttigieg comes up in the polls like I think he will) even though Sanders has been my #1 pick since 2016.
1. He said that almost half a decade ago. At this point, it's reasonable to assume that he's lying again.
2. He pledged to not run a negative campaign https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rubycramer/bernie-sanders-negative-ads-pledge-2020 His hiring of Sirota who is a dishonest attack dog says otherwise.
3. Sanders is like Clinton in that they both make poor hires based on loyalty blindspots. We should all judge him for hiring a piece of garbage like Sirota or that woman who boasted about voting for Jill Stein. These are not low level volunteers, these are staffers whose conduct reflects upon the candidate himself.
Good Vid. For all the talk of how Bernie is tone deaf on minority issues he certainly is doing the best job out of every candidate to be more inclusive.
Can you link to a negative attack ad of his? The one Clinton accused him of going negative in was a fucking joke (Ad is called "Two Visions" if anyone cares to watch it). He may have had others though I dont know.
Also I disagree with him there and think it's a dumb pledge. I'd be shitting all over Trump. Edit: I guess he doesnt need to do that in an ad anyway.
I didn't have a specific ad in mind. I was thinking about the pledge vs. hiring Sirota.
He has positions, sure, but in what way are they meaningfully distinct from any other centrist like Biden or Harris? Honestly, I don't understand what you see in him. Beto's platform is the stock standard liberal third-way bullshit that Obama was peddling in 2008. Can you please tell what policy ideas he has that are more progressive than Bernie or Warren?
Ok. I see. Well he said no negative attack ads so if he releases one then sure that'd be a lie. I certainly haven't seen one though aside from that one I talked about. And again that was just Clinton accusing him of going negative. If you watch the ad though...
It might be a shock that some people don't want the most progressive candidate to win.
If you think the most progressive candidate Democrats have would win in a general, I want some of what you are smoking
More progressive? Nobody is more progressive, at least on economic issues, than those two. His platform (and the Democratic platform in general) is much more left than when Obama ran. And as far as the ~~centrist~~ stuff, I'm not going to talk to that. It's a ridiculous talking point of Bernie supporters.
User banned (1 week): antagonizing other members, account in junior phase
Just so everyone knows here are two counter-revolutionary swine. Have fun licking boots!
A timely article: https://www.thedailybeast.com/barac...es-like-the-green-new-deal-are-very-expensive
“He said we [as Democrats] shouldn’t be afraid of big, bold ideas—but also need to think in the nitty-gritty about how those big, bold ideas will work and how you pay for them,” said one person in the room.
You joined a year and a half ago and have 4 posts. You are an alt account of someone here trolling or of someone banned
Damn, man. I didn't know Politics was so binary.
Nothing that you quoted was untrue.
There's a lot of evidence that pegs Sanders as an actual socialist running on more pragmatic demsoc policies. I trust him more than the other candidates in the race. But I do like Warren a lot and I think she has more credibility than you give her here. She is a capitalist but she's deeply critical of the current mode of capitalism in America, a mode which has created rampant inequality. Warren has moved further left with regards to the social safety net over the past few years as well. She believes capitalism can be saved. I don't agree but her record is more impressive than anyone else in the field but Sanders.
Agreed on Beto. It's important to remember that keeping the status quo favors the privileged. Beto is the darling candidate for privilege. Obviously he's better than Trump but I don't understand the enthusiasm for him. Is it projection, like with Obama?
As you probably know, liberals have a long history of this. It's not like they have our best interests at heart, or want to actually change the system that causes racial/gender inequality. They just want window dressing to gentrify it.
They stay stupid shit. After Sirota got crushed on here, I really hope you're not trying to paint their criticism as a race issue.
I joined when the site started and usually only lurk. I posted because there aren't enough leftist voices on here! I'm only seeing a bunch of capitalist apologia ITT so I want to balance the scales. Is that such a crime?
Ah yes, progressives don't have your best interests at heart because they're not fond of Jill Stein supporters.
Bernie is a capitalist. You can't seriously call people counter-revolutionary swine if you're still supporting a social democrat lmao and that's ignoring all the hyperbole and personal attacks.
If you think that a "centrist democrat" would win in a general after what happened with Clinton in 2016, I want some of what you are smoking
At the same time Hillary was +3 in the polls...she won the popular vote by 2.1%
There were a variety of issues that caused Clinton to lose the electoral vote. Being a centrist was not one of them. She would have been the most progressive president ever. You aren't winning middle America with a far left candidate. Dems win when they are young and good looking and campaign on bringing people together.
First, I would distinguish between labels: liberals, or the center-left, versus actual progressives.
Now, I really don't think that voting for Jill Stein in solid blue New York state is disqualifying for someone to be on Sanders' campaign. I believe that Hillary Clinton has done some things in the past that are so repulsive that a woman and POC would refuse to vote for her. I did vote for Clinton because I think that, given the choice of two awful outcomes, it's preferable to pick the least bad. But Gray felt differently and I definitely understand her decision.
America has deep-seated structural racism and sexism. Liberals believe in maintaining the systems that perpetuate these things. I don't think you can call yourself an ally if you want to uphold these systems.
You're not wrong, but this is a shallow argument because all of those polls are still treating President Sanders as a hypothetical.
At the same time Hillary was +3 in the polls...she won the popular vote by 2.1%
Clinton was stomping Trump in GE polls until the primaries when people suddenly had to confront the likelihood of President Clinton. It's easy as shit for someone to say "yeah, I'd totally vote for Bernie, but never Hillary" when they're sure as shit they'll never have to make that choice anyway.
The counterpoint to the "Bernie is so popular, he's way more electable" argument is that in a campaign that would actually treat him seriously (because real talk, Clinton handled him with kid gloves so as not to alienate any more of his supporters), the shine would come off and his numbers would come down. And wouldn't you know it, that's already happening.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/20/politics/bernie-sanders-favorable-unfavorable-rating/index.html
Being a centrist was not one of them.
Receipts, please! I doubt many were inspired by her policies. Especially when she didnt even talk about them that much during the general iirc.
She would have been the most progressive president ever.
Even if thats true (and it is in some ways), thats not saying much.
You aren't winning middle America with a far left candidate.
According to which sources? Bernie polls well when paired against Trump and he won some of the states that Clinton lost. Even then, calling Bernie or Warren "far left" is absurd. Their policies (Single payer, GND) are incredibly popular and they have overwhelming support across the country. Whats far left about a living wage?
Dems win when they are young and good looking and campaign on bringing people together
Funny, I can remember a candidate that ran on bringing people together (i think it was their slogan or something). Didnt she lose?
Even discounting that, going "dems win when they are young" is ageist as hell. Good looks are useful but as a party democrats need to focus more on the policies. Someone like Beto doesnt deserve the nom just because hes attractive. His voting record is enough to "turn me off".
And the fact that democrats won a couple of elections by focusing on triangulation doesnt mean that said strategy works anymore. Even if Hillary had won, it would have been a very, very close race. That shows that the "appeal to moderates" strategy isnt working.
Those distinctions flitter in the wind depending on who's using them and they're frequently weaponized against people that the user disagrees with.
Jill Stein was a stooge and a spoiler. Not voting for Clinton is one thing but signal boosting a spoiler candidate that helped put this administration in place is another.
Honestly, you can't call yourself a leftist or a progressive if you support a spoiler candidate that helps install a proto-fascist.
I would have never guessed that Andrew fucking Yang would have been so well received by the Breakfast Club YT listeners lol It looks like he did amazing from reading the comments and looking at like/dislike ratio. Who would have guessed.
I wonder if it ever occurs to people that ideology means jack shit to like 90% of swing voters and charisma is everything.
I think one of Clinton's major flaws was she had very few notable proposals that her supporters could parrot, the way Obama had healthcare, Bernie had M4A, Trump had the wall etc. That does not = "she was a centrist" and moreover that does not = "she was a centrist and that is why people did not vote for her."
If you want to keep whipping out poll numbers, Biden is our most electable option by far and he is firmly to the right of Hillary.
I think one of Clinton's major flaws was she had very few notable proposals that her supporters could parrot, the way Obama had healthcare, Bernie had M4A, Trump had the wall etc. That does not = "she was a centrist" and moreover that does not = "she was a centrist and that is why people did not vote for her."
If you want to keep whipping out poll numbers, Biden is our most electable option by far and he is firmly to the right of Hillary.
He is just so fucking good at talking to people. He would probably be better at diplomacy than any other candidate running right now.
Go look up Hillary's positions in 2016. She talked about policy non stop. The media never paid attention to her because they were busy airing every Trump event live and then replaying his jokes. The time spent on Clinton was talking about her emails or Benghazi or how she was shrill. Across the US in the the midterms far left candidates lost. People overwhelmingly voted against justice Democrats and the like in most primaries or if they made it to the general midterms they lost there. AOC won because her opponent was lazy and she was in a safe D area. If you don't believe the US on a whole in more in the center politically we will just have to disagree.
It's always interesting when a prolific forum poster for a videogame forum tries to write people off for being "terminally online."
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