2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | Hickenlooper makes it to the debate

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The Flop

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Oct 25, 2017
571
I'll take people who don't understand policy at all but talk about it anyway for 400, Alex
Well then feel free to explain why the cost of my insurance went up every year since the inception of the AHCA, and it was even mentioned during our open enrollment sessions at work that our plans were changing /adjusting and that the costs were as well do the the AHCA. So EVEN if it's not "true", the publics perception is that is had some sort of affect on it. Negatively.
 
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pigeon

pigeon

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Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Well then feel free to explain why the cost of my insurance went up every year since the inception of the AHCA, and it was even mentioned during our open enrollment sessions at work that our plans were changing /adjusting and that the costs were as well do the the AHCA. So EVEN if it's not "true", the publics perception is that is had some sort of affect on it. Negatively.
I mean, it kind of sounds like you explained it perfectly. Insurance companies told people that they were raising prices because of the ACA (the AHCA is a different bill), and people who don't know much about the topic believed them, even though it wasn't true, because they had silly ideas like "no policy can have worked unless my monthly insurance cost goes down."
 

Deleted member 8860

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Oct 26, 2017
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May I ask what 400 means?
Jeopardy (game show) reference.

The AHCA has slowed the increase in premiums/deductibles/copays for the quality of healthcare offered. Healthcare costs do continue to rise as Obamacare doesn't do nearly enough to curtail those on the pharma/practitioner/hospital side.

And when Trump effectively cancelled the individual mandate, gutting the Obamacare financial model, premiums skyrocketed.
 

The Letter C

Alt account
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Aug 1, 2018
234
Well then feel free to explain why the cost of my insurance went up every year since the inception of the AHCA, and it was even mentioned during our open enrollment sessions at work that our plans were changing /adjusting and that the costs were as well do the the AHCA. So EVEN if it's not "true", the publics perception is that is had some sort of affect on it. Negatively.
seems insurance was going up regardless, and is cheaper under ACA than without

https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-obamacare-premiums-20160726-snap-story.html

 

The Flop

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Oct 25, 2017
571
Yeah... how does the corporate benefits account into this graph though? It seems skewed to show an ACA advantage, and having been through 12 years without the ACA and 3-4 with it ... the increase with, was MUCH higher than before it was in place, but that's just my personal point of view.

Keep in mind though I'm a single working male, so my cost of insurance is generally pretty low, so any increase seems high to me.
 
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pigeon

pigeon

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Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Yeah... how does the corporate benefits account into this graph though? It seems skewed to show an ACA advantage, and having been through 12 years without the ACA and 3-4 with it ... the increase with, was MUCH higher than before it was in place, but that's just my personal point of view.

Keep in mind though I'm a single working male, so my cost of insurance is generally pretty low, so any increase seems high to me.
The primary purpose of the ACA was to help people in the greatest need -- especially people who could not get insurance, could not afford insurance, or could not afford preventative care.

That's why the regulatory fixes focused on guaranteed issue, community rating, and free preventative care -- reducing prices for people the insurance companies were deliberately freezing out -- and the transfer program part of the bill was focused on people and families at or near the poverty line.

Unfortunately, as a young male with employee-provided health insurance, you were one of the major beneficiaries of the old system. You are the low-cost customer insurance companies were giving preferential rates to. It's quite possible that your rates did go up, relatively, in order to ensure that rates for people with chronic illnesses came down to your level, rather than being deliberately priced so high that they would be forced to go without care.

Sorry! Any sort of progressive healthcare legislation at all would represent a tax on you. Most would be more expensive than the one you ended up with!
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
Yeah... how does the corporate benefits account into this graph though? It seems skewed to show an ACA advantage, and having been through 12 years without the ACA and 3-4 with it ... the increase with, was MUCH higher than before it was in place, but that's just my personal point of view.

Keep in mind though I'm a single working male, so my cost of insurance is generally pretty low, so any increase seems high to me.
Pre-ACA healthcare costs were not rising at a steady rate, they were rising at an increasing rate. Which is to say, it would have been even worse.
 

The Letter C

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Aug 1, 2018
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Pre-ACA healthcare costs were not rising at a steady rate, they were rising at an increasing rate. Which is to say, it would have been even worse.
Exactly what the study is suggesting, the ACA curbed an even higher cost. It's why premiums seem extra high for 2018 and 2019 because of trump removing the mandate.
 

ThomasJames

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Jan 15, 2019
1,972
I am just amazed each time I see a new one from him
He is the poster child for "name recognition advantage" which is a phrase I just invented. There is no fucking way he goes anywhere in a 2020 democratic primary. He will get eviscerated in a debate and ruin the good will that he could just as easily ride off into the sunset with.
 

Baladium

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Apr 18, 2018
5,408
Sleep Deprivation Zone
He is the poster child for "name recognition advantage" which is a phrase I just invented. There is no fucking way he goes anywhere in a 2020 democratic primary. He will get eviscerated in a debate and ruin the good will that he could just as easily ride off into the sunset with.
I have yet to see Biden get “eviscerated” in a debate. Granted, 2012 was the most recent major one, and against Paul Ryan (lol), so he could be a bit rusty. But I always thought he was a great debater from what I’ve seen.

But I still have serious doubts that he’ll even run to begin with, so me arguing his debating credentials is kinda premature at this point.
 

Ichthyosaurus

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Dec 26, 2018
9,375
bigwinnerx said:
I don’t think I could even hold my nose to vote Bernie if he won the nom. What to do as a left of center Dem....
Vote for him, he's better than Trump. But first he has to get there, and that is not guaranteed by a long shot.

Well, Bernie is left of center.
Not in the Democratic party, left of centre are the liberal/centrist wings.

Bloomberg/Schultz 2020 aka Trump 2020
These primaries have shifted the alignment slightly, wouldn't they be conservative Democrats now? In the 90's and early 2000's they'd be in the centre left category. I hope both of those guys lose.
 
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brainchild

VFX Artist/Consultant
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Nov 25, 2017
8,757
Minnesota
Digging interviews from 1988?
You know, while that is a very old quote and Bernie has been very vocal in his support for the LGBTQ community since then, he will need to have good answers for shit like this, because it's going to continue to resurface. For starters, he needs to apologize for making such a ridiculous, disgusting statement. After that, he needs to explain his past decisions and reassure his constituents that saying something like that will never happen again.
 
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Rael

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Oct 26, 2017
973
You know, while that is a very old quote and Bernie has been very vocal in his support for the LGBTQ community since then, he will need to have good answers for shit like this, because it's going to continue to resurface. For starters, he needs to apologize for making such a ridiculous, disgusting statement. After that, he needs to explain his past decisions and reassure his constituents that summering something like that will never happen again.
Nah, I know people are going for the Clinton treatment comparison but it's nonsensical. One is saying he wouldn't make it a priority, one supported doma and kept talking about marriage between man and woman into the 2000s
 

Ichthyosaurus

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Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Digging interviews from 1988?
It's primaries, every single part of his life and history will be dug up - along with everybody else. It's true he's improved on that issue but this still is something he will have to explain to the public.

Nah, I know people are going for the Clinton treatment comparison but it's nonsensical. One is saying he wouldn't make it a priority, one supported doma and kept talking about marriage between man and woman into the 2000s
To be fair, this is the one for the easiest cheap shots he could fix in an interview or two. Candidates can't hide from comments like that in 2019.
 
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Rael

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Oct 26, 2017
973
It's primaries, every single part of his life and history will be dug up - along with everybody else. It's true he's improved on that issue but this still is something he will have to explain to the public.
No voter that doesn't already hate Sanders is gonna care about that. This is donut Twitter circlejerking about something to feel clever and nothing more.
 

xbhaskarx

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Oct 27, 2017
5,143
NorCal
Maybe read the whole Twitter thread? Maybe know enough about politics that you get the Hillary comparison, where she was bashed for beliefs she no longer held, as if Bernie has never altered his views over time?

It’s not like they’re being disingenuous regarding the date of those statements...

https://twitter.com/achowardwriter/status/1089344389703438336

Example:


https://twitter.com/kassey12222/status/1089301845737119745

Yes I could have chose one of dozens of examples from the Bernie2020 hashtag but I chose one that literally isn’t even Bernie, for the lols
 
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Ichthyosaurus

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Dec 26, 2018
9,375
No voter that doesn't already hate Sanders is gonna care about that. This is donut Twitter circlejerking about something to feel clever and nothing more.
Like any candidate Bernie needs a coalition to win, this isn't for the true believers (they won't have the numbers to make him the winner) it's for the fence sitters and anyone who can be converted from the other candidate's supporters. He's going to face these sort of challenges through the primaries, this is just the first salvo. This is nothing to what's coming, Bernie should be able to wrap this up real quick without losing momentum. There's going to be a lot of voters which fit between the Hate Bernie and Love Bernie spectrum to appeal to which this will work on, and he has the receipts to confirm he's a changed man.
 

Rael

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Oct 26, 2017
973
You guys are posting like if I said it's an unfair attack or something. It's not, it's just dumb.
 

Luminish

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Oct 25, 2017
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Denver
Sure, there's no problem with bring anything up, but he's talking the types of protections we still don't have in most states right now in 2019. He's still light years ahead of everyone else at that time in 1988 if that's all they have on him. Even in 2008 it was fairly progressive just to be for don't ask don't tell.

But I'm honestly offended to see the Clinton comparison there to minimize how extremely hurtful and harmful the types of things we were in the 90s-2010s. In 1999 Clinton was on record for being for Defense of Marriage Act, which would have actively hurt LGBT in so many ways, while not supporting civil rights type protections didn't really matter at all.

I mean, I've forgiven the Clinton's because I know how politically dangerous and generally ignorant things were at that time. You probably couldn't find a single post where I've attacked them for that, which says something for how extremely important that issue is to me and how often I attack the Clintons. Just don't fucking act like actively standing against the low bar of same sex marriage is anything like the active civil rights protections we're still fighting for. That's a really shitty thing to do regardless of the individual dynamics of this primary.
 
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brainchild

VFX Artist/Consultant
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
8,757
Minnesota
Jesus, this is not a hard concept to understand. I'm gonna call it dumb then like I'm doing now, this ain't my first rodeo, this is not a teachable moment.
Fine by me, I was just giving my two cents because I come across those kinds of comments a lot from people who are new to the primary cycle. Of course, you're free to express your opinion how you see fit.
 

xbhaskarx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,143
NorCal
Sure Hillary supported lots of horrible policies but that pales in comparison to the horribleness of depressing voter enthusiasm on the left to such an extent that Trump is now the president. If I’m ranking crimes the latter is orders of magnitude worse. Each week is like a goddamn year.
 

Sinfamy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
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