That's never been true in politics or with Bernie himself. His character, how he does speeches, what things he does which endears people to him, his charisma etc are all vital to how he gained followers. No politician runs strictly on message or policies, it's literally impossible to do so because Bernie's existence is not something we can ignore.
Bernie combines two of America’s oldest and most favorite scapegoats; jews and socialists. The reaction to his campaigns from the centrists has everything to do with fear mongering and holding on to WASP dominance. That he made it as far as he has in national politics is testament to his effectiveness as a public speaker and servant.
Bernie has exceptionally little charisma. He’s got ETHOS, because he’s been basically on-message for like 30-40 years and so is credibly sincere in a way most politicians are not, but Bernie is as close to a policy-first politician as one can get in American politics, unless you think America suddenly decided dudes who look like Doc Brown and Larry David got in the Brundlefly machine are way fucking cool.
Literally nothing Bernie can do will get his die hard haters to like him aside from resigning and living the rest of his life in isolation. He’s one of the most popular politicians in the country and well liked by the vast majority of Democrats. This intense hatred for him comes from a very vocal minority.
He’s likely gearing up to be a dem nominee and pulls this act where he does the alternative “independent” response to Trump right after Abrams. And it’s the same response from 2015. The same tape cannot be edited that many times and not look rehashed. He should have let Abrams give the solo United Democratic response but no, he had to put his final word in
He has popular memes for his base to signal boost with! You think this didn't endear him to people?
I mean, my friends really like him as a personality. This is anecdotal but I have a friend who was drawn to Bernie bc he reminded her of her grandpa, which is a recurring thing you see influence voting. Trump definitely got some of that “reminds me of my grandpa/dad” vote since he’s practically a living golf course.
^this isn’t a real response to an actual articulated post.
so two people can’t respond to the SOTU is what I’m hearing?
Not as many people are going to let memes influence their political opinions this time around.
It’s only a matter of time until we get a Harris equivalent of that picture of Hillary in sunglasses on Air Force 1. When that happens, it will be every other post in this thread.
It tells you that he has the ego to say my response is greater than the United response from Democratic Party all the while using the democratic platform to run for elections .!
So you’re mad he did the thing he does every year and repeated himself but also you feel he did it to smother Abrams? That seems contradictory.
Does it tell you that or are you inferring that because you’re an uncharitable judge of character?
Does this also apply to Kamala Harris for giving a rebuttal last night?
Especially this year because he is gearing for another run as president but seems his message as so sacred that that it needs to be apart from the main dem party message
You mean the pre-rebuttal like every dem does in one form or the other but then united behind the main rebuttal after the main SOTU?
Wait until next year when every candidate gives a response
...what? In what universe does every dem give a “pre-rebuttal” right before the SOTU? you’re making shit up to defend your insane position.
oh god
Building coalitions is what the presidential primaries and general elections do for every candidate. A few months ago I was not a Kamala supporter, and I became a supporter of Beto because of his charisma and charm (he wasn't a policy guy), for example. Bernie himself did this in '16, his base was nowhere near as big as it was today because he reached out and converted new people into his base, before that he was an obscure politician from Nevada and occasional wacky guy who appeared on programs like Maddow. Now he's a rock star in the progressive movement with millions of followers.
lmao
Didn't know she did a rebuttle too. Do you have a link?
It sounds like he’s just doing his job as a politican on the fringe of the establishment.
Ok got it, this is a “look at that bitch eating crackers like she owns the joint” situation.
This states my point as it was discussed beyond era
His charisma doesn't work on me, either, but it does on millions of people. Socialists and progressives, particularly. They can't get enough of the guy, I've been racking my brains for years on how he gets such deep devotion but one thing is crystal clear he is able to reach these people. He didn't get millions of votes strictly on policy or message.
Madame we are capitalists continues with that shit even though the backlash is building up tremendously? Guess old orthodoxy has deep roots in her.
When that backlash comes, fine, until then she's the Speaker for a reason. Posturing won't convince Pelosi, or anyone else, it's coming - the arrival of socialist change in politics does and we are nowhere near that. A big signal for this change being real: having more candidates in the presidential primary besides Bernie Sanders.
I don’t know. There are people with brain worms across the spectrum. But you’re trying to make it seem like a huge contingent of the left would want Maduro and Pol Pot as a way of discrediting us. This is in bad faith, my friend, and you’ve been doing this a lot.
I’ve found a lot of Bernie haters just make up weird fan fiction about him. He threw a tantrum and didn’t let Abrams have the dem response? She did have it and his streamed response was right after her nationally broadcasted one that was on the major channels.
Nobody is saying she isn't. Clapping to the empty platitudes of the imbecile in Chief is not a good look or signal to voters. This is why Russia can incense the intraparty differences. The game is different than before. You have to think beyond your visible opposition and how can they frame what you do to turn it against to goals.
That's just decorum, and nobody's going to care for a minor slip-up. Not all voters are against decorum, and those who do will forget this because there are bigger problems to worry about than some clapping - which was sarcastic btw. Pelosi probably hates Trump more than we do since she has interact with him. Russia already knows what intraparty conflicts we have. I agree politics has changed, where I disagree that it has changed that much. Maybe you're right but we won't get a better picture of those realities until '20 and that's a long time from now. Socialism has a lot to prove if it wants to put an impact on the leadership of the Dems, they're not going to wilt under some posturing and Pelosi isn't an idiot like Trump.
The slip ups that kill you in politics are those that fit in the stereotype that's socially constructed of you. She has the we are capitalists comment plus this now. Additionally, she isn't just the speaker of the house but the most powerful Democrat in a position of power (maybe barring SCOTUS judges). Socialism has nothing to prove, reality has done enough for people to abhor the US flavor of capitalism.
Or they go by his pricky nature and history.
It's hyperbole to assume the negative response to Bernie's SOTU address was the worst thing ever he's done. It's a blip on the radar to us, but it is in character to be tone deaf to racial realities he presents by doing this to a black woman. He's not villainous, but his reputation as the friendliest man in Washington is true. All our candidates have flaws, some major. Bernie included.
Leftists have had it out for Pelosi long before we got here, and the biggest threat to her Speakership was from the conservative side, not the socialists. If they were in that position she'd be ready for it, she became of the most powerful figures in the party by being among the best politicians the party ever produced - when socialists have a candidate that slick she'd have met her match but more than likely she'll just move onto retirement in 4 years when her successor takes over. Socialism has everything to prove if it wants to be the dominant economic system in the US. The reality is on the political side the bench is barely starting to get filled and the biggest, and only, contender for the presidential primaries is an 80 year old man and his successor is a freshman congresswoman who isn't old enough to run. If socialist want to compete with the other wings they need to step the fuck up, I'm tired of the talking - do what you claim you want to do. The posturing isn't convincing.
He’s actually just literally the only person who has unambiguously Left policies and rhetoric. AOC is exactly as beloved by basically the same crowd, now, for this reason. People take what they can get. His crotchety grandpa thing does resonate, but just compare him to fellow crotchety grandpa Biden.
Exactly! This is not good for your ideology. Wouldn't you rather have several candidates better then what Bernie can do? Ones who can get further with changing the system. You shouldn't have settle for anybody, you should be able to choose between more than one candidate to achieve your goals. That's what the others do. Fuck Biden. He needs to stay out of the race.
Everyone has an ethos, Bernie's simply the one you agree with. It's Bernie's job to convince them to want to believe, like every other candidate. Has fails to get the proper number of votes in the primary he won't be the nominee. Sincerity is not a trait monopolised by Bernie Sanders, what would you say that many of the followers of the other candidates feel identically? You say waffling, I say getting the job done. Being stubborn is a liability without flexibility in politics. This is what the rest get that Bernie doesn't.[/quote][/QUOTE]
AOC, Ilhan Omar, and other progressive members of the House are the future of the Democratic Party imo and based on AOC’s surge of popularity, I think we’ll be finding candidates who echo her policies (many of which aren’t socialist and are just good, solid policy), but the truth of the matter is we spent decades embracing a political culture that encouraged selling out to corporate powers and demonized community and forward thinking politics. Both political parties have always needed money first and foremost and have always acted in ways where the short-term benefits them.
I think their actions show that they trying to do just that.
uh i don't feel like the democratic party of the last 30 years is a great example of being able to get the job done. their failure to deliver popular policy in the face of an accelerating national decline is what's really driven the popularity of bernie sanders.
It's not strictly AOC's policies they need to replicate it's her popularity. Because your side has failed to put a dent in those institutions, they've been disorganised, shattered and beaten down into giving up. Only recently have they evolved to getting a bench and that in spite of Bernie's leadership, that was his staff's. They carried that torch into creating AOC, Omar's and others not him. He had nothing to do with those organisations.
I agree the system has fought them, brutally at times. However, the movement was unable to reshape itself back into a cohesive political force under its now steam and that is not solely on the system. The socialists smartly hid while the heat was on but it's defined by that so they didn't fight back and this has cost them serenely in being relevant in society. Every movement and ideology has to evolve and change to modernise and become acceptable, socialism has not done that overtly and remains drawn to the activist mentality which is not an advantage in politics. What's disappointing is that Bernie did almost nothing to help all those decades when they needed his voice more than ever. They needed a leader to guide them, protect them and help them in congress and he refused until '16.
They did a lot more than what the socialists have done in congress in those 30 years. Popular policy has never been a force into itself to get votes in congress by itself, and that's not simply a Democratic fault. Blaming this completely on Democrats is a distraction, they've tried their hardest with the cards they were dealt against a powerful enemy. An enemy which the socialist have been a blip on the radar until they wanted it to be - like with AOC. Without that the socialist movement loses one of its biggest leaders outside Bernie himself. Socialists certainly weren't able to push someone like her into the spotlight by themselves, the TYT tried.
