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Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
I mean it seems like she'll be fine since people like you will just call it a purity test

wut. I already said I'm not interested in supporting her. Pro war and religious? No thanks.
As I said, I'm fine with purity tests. It's others using such a silly line as a shield to deflect criticism from preferred candidates. I'm merely exposing their hypocrisy.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
wut. I already said I'm not interested in supporting her. Pro war and religious? No thanks.
As I said, I'm fine with purity tests. It's others using such a silly line as a shield to deflect criticism from preferred candidates. I'm merely exposing their hypocrisy.
You do realize claiming a candidate voting 1% more with GOP than Nancy Pelosi or getting small dollar donations from those who work in ol companies is disqualifying is not the same thing as saying someone who openly HATES gay people and attacks them with homophobic slurs is disqualifying right?

Treating them as somehow similar stances and claiming you are exposing hypocrisy is seriously belittling of the issue of homophobia.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Lol.
Current Polling and advantage from name recognition are huge in primaries. Plus you know, campaign infrastructure and experience.

But yeah. Ignore those factors and current polling.

It is, what makes you sure Bernie will have a higher degree of professionalism over other candidates? Specifically infrastructure and experience. His experience has not been a positive against established candidates in the past. The context won't be identical to '16, either.

edit: His biggest hurdle will be when California comes up, which is March now. That's going to take a lot of money and infrastructure to stand a chance, and he won't have all his experienced followers from '16. As well as competing with Beto, Warren, and Gabbard over progressives votes and donations.
 

Snowy

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,399
Only candidates we can say with any certainty that they have no chance are Tulsi, Bernie, Ojeda, and Castro. Everyone else has a fair shot.

Bernie has a better chance than Gillibrand and Booker, at a minimum. My prediction: Harris will be Dem Rubio, Biden will flop like he always does, Warren will not escape being the President's favorite target to bully. I honestly have trouble seeing the race be anything other than Beto vs Bernie, in the end. Left vs Liberal is the inescapable division of the Dems right now.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
You do realize claiming a candidate voting 1% more with GOP than Nancy Pelosi or getting small dollar donations from those who work in ol companies is disqualifying is not the same thing as saying someone who openly HATES gay people and attacks them with homophobic slurs is disqualifying right?

Treating them as somehow similar stances and claiming you are exposing hypocrisy is seriously belittling of the issue of homophobia.

I'll ignore the hilarious first part and address the actual substance.

I never said the two issues were the same. I said the method was the same. And again, I don't have problem with the method. Different things matter differently to different people. That's politics.

So you draw the line at bigoted slurs used in the past? or is the line drawn at supporting homophobic policies?
I just want to be clear what your line is.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
It is, what makes you sure Bernie will have a higher degree of professionalism over other candidates? Specifically infrastructure and experience. His experience has not been a positive against established candidates in the past. The context won't be identical to '16, either.

edit: His biggest hurdle will be when California comes up, which is March now. That's going to take a lot of money and infrastructure to stand a chance, and he won't have all his experienced followers from '16. As well as competing with Beto, Warren, and Gabbard over progressives votes and donations.

Bernie made up a huge polling and awareness gap over the course of the primary. I'm not saying he will win this time or that his effort last time was the best possible (definitely not.....) or that he will improve on his past effort, but to say he did poorly given the odds stacked against him is quite simply inaccurate.

Professionalism? I don't think that's relevant here.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Bernie made up a huge polling and awareness gap over the course of the primary. I'm not saying he will win this time or that his effort last time was the best possible (definitely not.....) or that he will improve on his past effort, but to say he did poorly given the odds stacked against him is quite simply inaccurate.

Professionalism? I don't think that's relevant here.

I'm not denying he has a bigger edge with polling and awareness this round. You're right, this is an advantage he has. My argument is that it's unlikely it'll stay like that, it is smoother for establishment inclined Dems to boost their profile in the media in shorter time periods when they go all out. Beto would be able to cover this the easiest, with Harris in second. It's early days yet, they're nowhere near running at their peak. A lot can change within a year, then it'll ramp up further once '20 arrives.

Professionalism is a huge advantage with campaigning. You can have all the money in the world but if the campaign is ran by idiots you're going to have a tough road. This is why experience matters, people with experience will make less mistakes since they've learnt from doing stupid things, new people will be doing this for the first time. This sunk Romney big time against Obama, and Hillary's had her own issues with that in the past during her elections. Bernie's campaigning in '16 screwed up several times over this, for example when they weren't prepared for the voting procedures in areas like New York. This applies to campaigners who both inexperienced and are idiots.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
Bernie would have an outside chance if he could somehow figure out the black vote. He has a lot energy behind him for a racially insensitive septuagenarian.

He does, which is why it's unfortunate that he hasn't made much progress in appealing to black voters. I voted for him in 2016 but I'm pretty disappointed with his outreach to the black community and some of his comments on race in general (though he's the best candidate in the race on policy almost across the board). I don't understand why Bernie hasn't added more focus on black issues to his standard stump speech that he gives during interviews.

Maybe I missed that he did do some substantive outreach?
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
I'm not denying he has a bigger edge with polling and awareness this round. You're right, this is an advantage he has. My argument is that it's unlikely it'll stay like that, it is smoother for establishment inclined Dems to boost their profile in the media in shorter time periods when they go all out. Beto would be able to cover this the easiest, with Harris in second. It's early days yet, they're nowhere near running at their peak. A lot can change within a year, then it'll ramp up further once '20 arrives.

Professionalism is a huge advantage with campaigning. You can have all the money in the world but if the campaign is ran by idiots you're going to have a tough road. This is why experience matters, people with experience will make less mistakes since they've learnt from doing stupid things, new people will be doing this for the first time. This sunk Romney big time against Obama, and Hillary's had her own issues with that in the past during her elections. Bernie's campaigning in '16 screwed up several times over this, for example when they weren't prepared for the voting procedures in areas like New York. This applies to campaigners who both inexperienced and are idiots.

I mostly don't disagree!
 

Nox

Member
Dec 23, 2017
2,905
U.S. Lawmaker Tulsi Gabbard Discloses Ethereum And Litecoin Investments

https://www.ccn.com/u-s-lawmaker-tulsi-gabbard-discloses-ethereum-and-litecoin-investments/

"Gabbard reported purchasing between $1,000 and $15,000 of both ETH and LTC in a financial disclosure report filed with the clerk of the legislative body. The disclosure is required under an ethics memo the House Ethics Committee issued in June."

Hahaha.
This is good for Bitcoin?
 

Midnight Jon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,161
Ohio
looks like someone's goose... got cooked 😎

U.S. Lawmaker Tulsi Gabbard Discloses Ethereum And Litecoin Investments

https://www.ccn.com/u-s-lawmaker-tulsi-gabbard-discloses-ethereum-and-litecoin-investments/

"Gabbard reported purchasing between $1,000 and $15,000 of both ETH and LTC in a financial disclosure report filed with the clerk of the legislative body. The disclosure is required under an ethics memo the House Ethics Committee issued in June."

Hahaha.
absolute funniest thing about this is she purchased both right at the peak so she wound up losing like 80% of that investment
 

Midnight Jon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,161
Ohio
nah but for real how are you gonna get banned while stanning for tulsi's fuckin' gay-hating looking ass, only a democrat because hawaii's a one party state looking ass, cozies up to dictators so much she's giving trump a run for his money looking ass, has an inexplicable hardon for saying "radical islamic terror" looking ass candidacy

and then dismiss all of those, especially the "actively hates LGBT people" part in the party where the overwhelming majority of us have made our homes, as "purity tests"

like some of y'all really gonna have zero standards just because she endorsed Him, huh
 
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Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
He deserved it, trying to defend the rav
nah but for real how are you gonna get banned while stanning for tulsi's fuckin' gay-hating looking ass, only a democrat because hawaii's a one party state looking ass, cozies up to dictators so much she's giving trump a run for his money looking ass, has an inexplicable hardon for saying "radical islamic terror" looking ass candidacy

and then dismiss all of those, especially the "actively hates LGBT people" part in the party where the overwhelming majority of us have made our homes, as "purity tests"

like some of y'all really gonna have zero standards just because she endorsed Him, huh
It's all the funnier because these people are the same ones who apply "purity tests" to Kamala, Beto, Gillibrand, etc over nonsensical issues.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
She was really impressive during that interview. Same with the one on The View, somehow she had the patience to deal with Meghan McCain's idiocy. Definitely bumped her up a few spots in my 2020 bracket.

yeah she seems the most "presidential" of the people who are seemingly running

definitely needs to address her past however. can't go forward without that but if it's already coming up prior to the primary it will certainly come up either among the candidates themselves or will be a big enough thing in the media where she'll have to address it. she was pretty savvy in how she pivoted towards the left after the 2016 election so we'll see what happens. so far everyone has some pretty huge flaws but we're gonna have to pick somebody.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
The Young Turks are severely fucking up with Gabbard. This is the second piece defending her in so many days. Read the room, guys.

edit: Maybe they're doing that since they see her as the heir apparent to Bernie, which Warren is out of the running for endorsing Hillary. I know they're desperate, but really, do that with Warren!
Honestly feels like "true leftism" is a political brand more than a coherent ideology with the way its built up. More about being anti-establishment than policy positions.
 

Tomohawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,014
Bernie would have an outside chance if he could somehow figure out the black vote. He has a lot energy behind him for a racially insensitive septuagenarian.
Black voters like Bernie the issue is do they like him enough to vote for him over other candidates. Given his 2016 race was against someone historically popular with black people and no one in the current race has the name recognition + popularity among black voters i think it remains to be seen if this will be a issue this time around. Maybe Joe Biden or Kamala will be a issue.
 

Gaf Zombie

The Fallen
Dec 13, 2017
2,239
Black voters like Bernie the issue is do they like him enough to vote for him over other candidates. Given his 2016 race was against someone historically popular with black people and no one in the current race has the name recognition + popularity among black voters i think it remains to be seen if this will be a issue this time around. Maybe Joe Biden or Kamala will be a issue.

I can't see him winning the black vote in a head-to-head with Booker, Biden, Harris, Beto, or even Gabbard as of right now. He's damaged his brand in the black community imo. That said it's January 2019, he can still figure it out. And figuring it out will be necessary because the moderates will be loathe to back him.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,390
The Young Turks are severely fucking up with Gabbard. This is the second piece defending her in so many days. Read the room, guys.

edit: Maybe they're doing that since they see her as the heir apparent to Bernie, which Warren is out of the running for endorsing Hillary. I know they're desperate, but really, do that with Warren!
Which is hysterical because her poltics don't align with Bernie at all.
But then again, TYT has no interest in politics.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
The Young Turks are severely fucking up with Gabbard. This is the second piece defending her in so many days. Read the room, guys.

edit: Maybe they're doing that since they see her as the heir apparent to Bernie, which Warren is out of the running for endorsing Hillary. I know they're desperate, but really, do that with Warren!
It's all about tribal politics and useless labels/buzz words.

HURFADURFA Gabbard speaks against the establishment, she's great! (proceeds to clap like a seal whenever she says "DNC")

Honestly feels like "true leftism" is a political brand more than a coherent ideology with the way its built up. More about being anti-establishment than policy positions.
Bingo
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
I cannot accept that that article wasn't satire

Yeah, half way through I thought it was for an Onion like article parodying Bernie stans. The site being called "The Baffler" was not helping with that perception.

Which is hysterical because her poltics don't align with Bernie at all.
But then again, TYT has no interest in politics.

They do, TYT = Justice Democrats. They founded, funded and made that political group and to this date are heavily involved in shilling those politicians. It's amusing watching them act like they don't have bias here, and are blatant in shilling AOC at every opportunity, except when she goes against their orders like voting for Pelosi then they ignore it completely. I remember when they couldn't shut up about being the only media there when AOC won her campaign, like what happened wasn't uncommon and that the media were idiots for not seeing this coming from a mile away. Rather than accept that she was an obscure dark horse candidate and her winning was the exception rather than the rule.
 

xbhaskarx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,143
NorCal
We already know there are dozens if not hundreds on the right, but at some point we'll find out how many "Putin Puppets" are on the left (aside from Jill Stein, Wikileaks / Julian Assange, Oliver Stone, etc.) as well... Tad Devine, Bernie, Tulsi Gabbard, The "if you don't let Putin do whatever he wants you're a neocon" Intercept, Glenn Greenwald, Stephen F. Cohen and his wife (The Nation editor-publisher) Katrina vanden Heuvel... ?


https://twitter.com/jkfecke/status/1085631869918560256





Given the current state of the world, the Democrats probably want to field a candidate that is unquestionably NOT working to further the interests of a hostile foreign power like Russia, and there are too many to choose from (Beto, Harris, Gillibrand, etc.) for someone questionable like Bernie to be a viable option... they don't want to end up like Labour with Jeremy Corbyn who is unable to provide any leadership on Brexit, where he won't call for a second referendum because he's more pro-Brexit than the idiots currently steering the UK off a cliff.
 
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Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
We already know there are dozens if not hundreds on the right, but at some point we'll find out how many "Putin Puppets" are on the left (aside from Jill Stein, Wikileaks / Julian Assange, Oliver Stone, etc.) as well... Tad Devine, Bernie, Tulsi Gabbard, The Intercept, Glenn Greenwald, Stephen F. Cohen and his wife (The Nation editor-publisher) Katrina vanden Heuvel... ?


https://twitter.com/jkfecke/status/1085631869918560256





Given the current state of the world, the Democrats probably want to field a candidate that is unquestionably NOT working to further the interests of a hostile foreign power like Russia, and there are too many to choose from (Beto, Harris, Gillibrand, etc.) for someone questionable like Bernie to be a viable option... they don't want to end up like Labour with Jeremy Corbyn who is unable to provide any leadership on Brexit, where he won't call for a second referendum because he's more pro-Brexit than the idiots currently steering the UK off a cliff.

Jesus
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
TYT endorsing Gabbard over Warren is just more proof they're missing some marbles.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,281
russian puppet conspiracies are just as annoying as ~the establishment~ conspiracies
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
We already know there are dozens if not hundreds on the right, but at some point we'll find out how many "Putin Puppets" are on the left (aside from Jill Stein, Wikileaks / Julian Assange, Oliver Stone, etc.) as well... Tad Devine, Bernie, Tulsi Gabbard, The Intercept, Glenn Greenwald, Stephen F. Cohen and his wife (The Nation editor-publisher) Katrina vanden Heuvel... ?


https://twitter.com/jkfecke/status/1085631869918560256





Given the current state of the world, the Democrats probably want to field a candidate that is unquestionably NOT working to further the interests of a hostile foreign power like Russia, and there are too many to choose from (Beto, Harris, Gillibrand, etc.) for someone questionable like Bernie to be a viable option... they don't want to end up like Labour with Jeremy Corbyn who is unable to provide any leadership on Brexit, where he won't call for a second referendum because he's more pro-Brexit than the idiots currently steering the UK off a cliff.

This feels threadworthy.

Would any Bernie folks like to explain this?

russian puppet conspiracies are just as annoying as ~the establishment~ conspiracies
How do you explain those votes?
 

xbhaskarx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,143
NorCal

xbhaskarx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,143
NorCal
At worst he might be a tankie? Which sure as shit is disqualifying.
It's bad enough that these old school leftist loonies defended the Soviet Union no matter what horrible crimes they committed during the Cold War, but are these Bernie/Corbyn-type 70 year old white dudes really politically savvy enough to be leading a major liberal political party in the year 2019 if they can't even figure out that Russia is now a right wing white nationalist (anti-gay, anti-women) proto-fascist oligarchy controlled by billionaires, and a hostile foreign power actively working to destroy the very countries whose interests they are supposed to represent?
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,822
The Young Turks are severely fucking up with Gabbard. This is the second piece defending her in so many days. Read the room, guys.

edit: Maybe they're doing that since they see her as the heir apparent to Bernie, which Warren is out of the running for endorsing Hillary. I know they're desperate, but really, do that with Warren!

Ana went on The Michael Brooks Show last night and has turned against Gabbard somewhat, said that she wish she had read more into it before doing that segment because some bad stuff has come up.


Some people hate on TYT, but at least they're not Jimmy Dore.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
Black voters like Bernie the issue is do they like him enough to vote for him over other candidates. Given his 2016 race was against someone historically popular with black people and no one in the current race has the name recognition + popularity among black voters i think it remains to be seen if this will be a issue this time around. Maybe Joe Biden or Kamala will be a issue.
Okay, so I need to unpack this a bit because there is a lot here. The reason Hillary was historically popular among black people was because she put in the legwork to be seen as such. Bernie did not in 2016, and has shown no evidence of doing anything sense. But even if he did somehow do that, he has bigger problems. His 2016 coalition simply does not exist in 2020. (It was three pronged: true supporters, anti-Clinton and protest voters).

There's a new set of polling of Democratic women that just came out. It's a really interesting read throughout. The polling shows Bernie has some pretty big problems with women voters as well this time. 11% of Democratic women think he would be poor or very poor on women's issues. The only candidate who comes close to those numbers is Bloomberg at 6%. In the full field he is only getting 10% of female democrats votes. He's in 5th behind Biden, Beto, Warren and Harris.) He's running 4th in 18-34 year olds, and 7th among those 65+ at a measly 4% behind Hillary. He's running 4th among white women, Black women and Latina women. 5th among Democrats, and 3rd among Independents. None of Biden, Beto, Harris or Warren supporters name him as their 2nd choice candidate (which would help him when others drop out). In favorable/unfavorable the only candidate who has a worse approval than Bernie among women is Hillary, by a very narrow result.

There are other issues too. 53% of Warren supporters in this poll voted for Bernie in 2016. Nearly 70% of Bernie's supporters in this poll did not vote in 2018, 58% are defined as low awareness voters, and only 52% of supporters in this poll voted for him in 2016.

Put simply, his base is just not there anymore. So he's entering a crowded field where he is in the hole with Black voters and women, the two largest groups of the Democratic party. The fact that he doesn't win Independents is problematic. Put simply, there is no lane to occupy which leads to securing the nomination.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Ana went on The Michael Brooks Show last night and has turned against Gabbard somewhat, said that she wish she had read more into it before doing that segment because some bad stuff has come up.


Some people hate on TYT, but at least they're not Jimmy Dore.


True. After watching that I wonder whether Cenk was ordering her to cool it so he could protect his Liberal Icon. She has always been the smarter one of those two in the TYT.

Right, they're not Jimmy Door but they're not doing their rep any favours with this bullshit. I expect this from Door not them.
 

xbhaskarx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,143
NorCal
russian puppet conspiracies are just as annoying as ~the establishment~ conspiracies
If only we had some evidence that Russia, no longer able to compete as a global superpower since they have a crap military, declining population, and economy the size of Italy, was using asymmetrical warfare to destabilize the western order (Brexit, Trump, almost Le Pen in France, etc.)....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/05/gerasimov-doctrine-russia-foreign-policy-215538
 
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