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2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT2 | Warren's college tuition plan includes cancelling college debt
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Many people support bernie because they don't like the way establishment democrats run things. You have your causation mixed up. He's not glamouring people, they just agree.
I'm not being a smart ass, I'm actually asking, but what hostility is Bernie doing towards the dem party? I tend to agree with most of what he says on policy, so the things that would seem hostile to some wouldn't be hostile to me.
This is a realistic take. Bravo.
If he sticks up for himself he becomes the bitch eating crackers.
Apparently it's because he's calling out the establishment for literally conspiring against him.
If people are saying that Bernie's being conspiratorial, then what the hell is the New York Times? Should the DNC sue them for defamation?
Are you thinking of Mike Gravel?
Mike Gravel ✔
@MikeGravel
There are two types of Trump resistors - those who see him as an aberration and wish to return to GWB/Obama (like Frum and Biden), and those who view him as the inevitable result of decades of disastrous policy & the rule of an out-of-touch, universally despised elite class.
Mike Gravel ✔
@MikeGravel
There is no point in electing Democrats if they vote the same as Republicans. Neoliberalism has captured both major parties. It is time to destroy the cult of austerity - if we really wanted to, we could fix our problems easily. Spending massive sums on bombings doesn't help.
I know right? It isn't unreasonable to call out a bunch of donors/party officials having a gathering 10 months before the first vote is cast....
Then who? Bernie's taking the word of the journalists. If the journalists are lying, who should sue them?
It would be nice if people could develop a critique of Bernie's rhetoric that went beyond "Look, he's saying people in the establishment don't like him, this makes him just like Trump!" as if that's literally all it takes to be exactly like someone else, or as if that was even the actual problem with Trump to begin with, anyway.
Reminder that the NY Times is not the friend of Dems. They will do everything in their power to try to create dissent among Democrats and get Trump re-elected. Trump is a moneymaker for the media.
Some members of the party and donors? There's no involvement by the DNC mentioned in that article. No need for "rigged primary" rhetoric.
Yes the top newspaper in the country is shaping the narrative in order to keep Trump in power.
Who's running on conspiracies again?
My point is that that is where the ire should be directed. Bernie didn't come up with the story on his own.
This is literally the same logic being used by Sanders and his supporters. You're not wrong btw
Yeah, if people are coming for their credibility, receipts are in order.
You arn't seen nothing yet. Wait until this summer starts, they will be trying to make him seem like Trump tons of diffrent ways... all while Trump is calling him CRAZY BERNIE.
Trump was openly hostile to the Republican Party and surprise it actually worked. The typical religious right wing lame 80s obsessed republican voter base had been nearly maxed out
Now that Trumps base is out and seemingly constantly engaged and motivated we are the ones with the shrinking EC and senate maps.
Really, the typical "generic democratic" or "Democratic Party" branding is in the dumpster. Fact that Bernie runs against it or has effectively distanced himself from being that is a good thing. I don't think if we effectively do the same thing again we did in 2016 it will work. I thought a *insert generic dem* would be a good person to go with before but I'm starting to rethink that. Also because it seems like nobody likes our generic dems at all. Not even generic democrats do. Beto and Harris and others are falling way flatter with people than I thought they would.
Bernie has some shitty fans but at least he has fans. And I'm pretty sure they will go out of their minds and work overtime to get him in office if he gets the nomination. The most frustrating thing about 2016 as someone who went out of their minds to try to elect Hillary and stop Trump last time was the lack of energy or number of people who seemed willing to do fuck all else other than just vote for themselves
Now that Trumps base is out and seemingly constantly engaged and motivated we are the ones with the shrinking EC and senate maps.
Really, the typical "generic democratic" or "Democratic Party" branding is in the dumpster. Fact that Bernie runs against it or has effectively distanced himself from being that is a good thing. I don't think if we effectively do the same thing again we did in 2016 it will work. I thought a *insert generic dem* would be a good person to go with before but I'm starting to rethink that. Also because it seems like nobody likes our generic dems at all. Not even generic democrats do. Beto and Harris and others are falling way flatter with people than I thought they would.
Bernie has some shitty fans but at least he has fans. And I'm pretty sure they will go out of their minds and work overtime to get him in office if he gets the nomination. The most frustrating thing about 2016 as someone who went out of their minds to try to elect Hillary and stop Trump last time was the lack of energy or number of people who seemed willing to do fuck all else other than just vote for themselves
They fired an editor for criticizing their Trump/Russia coverage, they have a person nicknamed MAGA Haberman, do nonstop Dems in disarray stories, and they continually post Republican fluff. They have gotten record profits due to a Trump presidency. If you think they don't want him to remain president continue to fool yourself.
Some of the NYT's policial reporters have very specific histories with this stuff. It's not a conspiracy to call them out.
This is the guy who co-authored the Tanden piece where he cold-called her mom.
Do they have any articles criticizing republicans? I don't really read NYT personally, but as far as I know, they're regarded as being pretty credible.
Even if everything that you said is true, what matters more in this context is the veracity of their content. Is their content based on facts/truthful or not?
I'll take this a different way than the other posters.
When us "socialists" call out capitalism, it's because of stuff like this. It's because the incentive structure of modern business makes them, the "MSM", more keen to have Trump around than to suppress him. 2016 was good evidence of this. Tons of free coverage and signal boosting, why? For ratings, and profit.
Fittingly, the most anti-capital candidate this time around is Bernie.
The NYT's big issue is explicitly their political reporting. " Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I. Sees No Clear Link to Russia" being the most prominent recent complete bullshit piece with blatant political aims of laundering Trump.
So biased reporting, got it. All mainstream media does that, which makes it difficult to trust all of them to an extent.
What I'm particularly interested in in this case is whether or not they're lying about the donors conspiring against Bernie. Them reporting on it for whatever nefarious reason is a separate issue.
The Democratic donors and their puppet politicians would rather have Trump win than Bernie.
And Bobo raises a point. Be mindful of the media, these people are not your friends. They are all owned by the wealthy and benefit financially with another Trump win. CNN will be Trump's advertising firm again.
And Bobo raises a point. Be mindful of the media, these people are not your friends. They are all owned by the wealthy and benefit financially with another Trump win. CNN will be Trump's advertising firm again.
He is considered to be tone deaf to racial issues but not by me.
That's not just "biased", they have an issue with their political reporters deliberately pushing disingenuous narratives. One of their reporters literally went to the same businessman in the same rural town to source two different "Rural Americans still believe in Trump" article months apart from each other.
Facts are facts, but they're not reporting "just the facts."
"MAGA Haberman", "Dems in Disarray", the "media wants Trump as president for profit"... a lot of this screams "things me and like-minded people say to each other on the internet that we've all come to accept as universal objective truths".
Not interested in a semantic debate, just trying to get to the bottom of the truth. If what the NYT said is true about the anti-Bernie conspiracy, then it makes sense that Bernie would call it out.
yeah exactly
this is why I feel like a lot of the anger in this thread is misdirected
The first hit.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/opinion/dems-in-disarray.html
"Spend some time reading political writers on Twitter, and you may come across "Dems in disarray." It's become something of a joke among certain political analysts — a reference to the fact that pundits almost always say that the Democrats are in shambles.
The joke appears to date from a 2005 "West Wing" episode that included a (fictional) cover of Time magazine with the phrase. It received new life thanks to a March 2006 New Yorker piece by Hendrik Hertzberg, the first two paragraphs of which each began, ironically: "The Democrats are in disarray." Sure enough, those disarrayed Democrats retook the House of Representatives later that year."
How does that refute the point?
Sooo....how does this help the NYT's right wing agenda:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/opinion/republicans-ocasio-cortez-omar.html
That article was published 2 days ago, btw
EDIT:
more...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/opinion/bernie-sanders-republicans.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/...n=latest&contentPlacement=6&pgtype=collection
There seems to be plenty of articles criticizing republicans, with a quick google search. Allsides also rates them as 'left leaning'.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/opinion/republicans-ocasio-cortez-omar.html
That article was published 2 days ago, btw
EDIT:
more...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/opinion/bernie-sanders-republicans.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/...n=latest&contentPlacement=6&pgtype=collection
There seems to be plenty of articles criticizing republicans, with a quick google search. Allsides also rates them as 'left leaning'.
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Read your link. Think about what you're posting. Then repeat until it clicks.
I haven't read much policy, or think he even has really put together anything in-depth.
But I've always been interested in seeing how a respected, business executive would handle the Presidency. It's unfortunate the first one we have had is intellectually and morally bankrupt.
All the links I posted criticized republicans unequivocally.
They also have been rated by multiple independent sources as 'left leaning'
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-york-times/
You posted an opinion article, not a news article. How could you not notice the difference?
EDIT: You did it three times!
I think he's been careful to not be divisive in some respects.
He had a chance to land an easy shot on Joe Biden last night. Joe may be one of his toughest challengers.
Bernie knew better to not needlessly attack a DNC favorite. Instead he called him a long time friend and political ally.
It'd be very easy to call him a centrist who lacks the will for change. But he didn't.
The media bias analysis of their site (including news coverage) is more significant than any NYT links I could have posted.
considering respected business executives are the vast minority and all of their interests would clash with progressive economic policy...
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