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2020 Presidential Democratic Primary Debate V |OT| All Coastal Elite Wrestling
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
If Bernie and Warren, the progressive candidates Era loves, have a bigger combined base than Biden, doesnt that mean that there are more progressives than "moderates"? Doesnt that make them as representative of the democratic base as any Biden supporter?
Also I can easily support said narrative. Most polling firms have shown Biden dropping for months now. YouGov has him literally tied with Warren. CBS has Warren"s delegate count barely behind Biden and he was ahead by a lot two months ago. There is polling that is showing Biden down in NH and Nevada, while barely holding Iowa. and this is months before the primaries actually begin! His staff is already making excuses for losing the early states ffs
"Comfortably ahead in three of those"
I dont know
about that one
chief
He is comfortably ahead in one of the four states.
Explain to me how any of the actual, tangible stuff I mentioned (polling, delegate counts, comments by his own staff) is "removed from reality". Bidens train might be surviving more blows than some here expected and there is definitely a chance that he can win it, but...
In late april, he had a 20 point lead
In mid september, his staff is downplaying the early states out of fear
Do you understand how thats a considerable drop?
I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm with Yang cause of his views on AI and technology. He's a lot more forward thinking compared to any other democratic nominee from what I can see.
How on earth was that a good performance from Biden? What did he do to change anyone's mind that he's not a bumbling, confused fool? He told black families that they need outside, professional (hired) help in raising their children.
There's a reason why his own damn campaign reportedly works to keep him out of the public eye.
There is nothing subjective about that record player/slavery speech. That was an objective clunker that his team better hope gets buried.
Nevermind some of his other low lights.
At least try to state why his performance is somehow a "win".
How anyone with zero public office experience thinks they should be the king of public service escapes me.
Hi, I'd like to apply to be CEO of business company. I've never worked in private business in my life. Please hire me.
Hi, I'd like to apply to be CEO of business company. I've never worked in private business in my life. Please hire me.
It's almost as if the corporate news media is more conservative than the ascending progressive wing of the democratic party.
Yeah, of course its your opinion. We know.
i love it when the explanation of why the candidate won the debate basically mentions none of the debate, instead basically saying "well its my opinion"
Because the alternative would need to you to actually explain why a slavery speech and mumbling for three hours is somehow winning a debate.
When the next polls come out. Good??Those articles aren't saying he did well, they say he did just enough. But the media bias???!!
A win for him is not sticking out enough for the general public to change their opinion. It's not doing well.
There's an assumption that the point is that he actually did well.
In what fucking world do you think I'm just looking at Era? Also how idealistic do you have to be to think those media outlets don't have a stake in Biden winning?
I actually met them last night, they are very kind and bright people. <3 and it doesn't matter ultimately if no one can hear. Now there are articles about the fact that dacas about to come up to the supreme Court and people are hurting because of it
Next debate needs an airhorn that goes off whenever someone says "let me be clear" or a variant thereof.
Here's the problem: you cherrypick singular polls and believe there is a progressive voting block split between Warren and Sanders which has no interest in Biden.
Biden's numbers are down, obviously. Things always tighten up. But he's not crashing.
Vox is a bit surprising, sure, but WP ain't perfect.
And these media types do have their own bubble.
Not saying that what's posted is totally wrong. Just saying a lot of the media don't seem to understand their own role in pushing narrative.
Personally I tuned in wanting to like Biden and be ok with him as president. After all, he had one of the best debates I've ever seen against Paul Ryan. I genuinely did like the guy for a while as VP. 2012 Biden would be fine, but the debate I saw was a mess. He was rambling and completely incoherent at times. I completely understand practical moderate dems wanting a guy like Biden. I'm pretty progressive but I'm very practical. There's just a lot of concern from his campaign so far. And some of his answers in that debate need to be amplified so people know it. He basically said he got duped into the Iraq war, couldn't even copy/paste a good Obama defense of the deportations under that administration, and then there's the weird record player thing...
They went to a watch party for the 2020 Democratic Primary. I'm pretty sure that they are going to vote.
Your arguments were:
1. Neither Warren or Bernie are dropping out before those first states and Biden is comfortably ahead in three of those and tied in one.
2. The "biden is crashing" narrative by some in this thread is further removed from reality than any reporting on the race has been.
Argument 1 is easy to prove wrong. If you claim im using "singular polls" then your complaints should go to pollsters and not to me. Its not my fault that:
-Basically no one polls Nevada (Im using the only poll that isnt a month old)
-Iowa hasnt been polled in a month
Plus, Im not also using just polling. Warren is said to have a gigantic groundgame in Nevada, and Bernie is supposed to be all over Iowa. Plus Biden"s campaign has already downplayed it. So no, using the comments from the political campaign of the candidate is not "cherrypicking singular polls".
Argument 2 is just pedantic because its incredibly easy to say "well he is falling but he isnt crashing" and then the argument is just about what "crashing" means.
On a personal level, I consider asking people to ignore your early state losses after leading by 20 points is a gigantic collapse. But of course you can say "nu-uh" but talking about the definition of a word is never fun.
Also the whole "progressive voting block" thing has nothing to do with what i was saying.
My point is simple: Bernie and Warren have enough supporters for them to be considered more than just "oh its the Era bubble".
I remember the GOP primary last time around. Most of the other candidates treated Trump with kid gloves until it was far too late; seemed like they were hoping to inherit his base when he eventually dropped out, so they went easy on him.
Biden didn't exactly drop trou on live TV, but he seemed easily rattled at several points. I know he more than any other candidate was put in the position of defending his record, but he and his team would obviously expect that, plan for that, and it didn't seem like he handled it particularly well. Composure counts for a lot in these performances.
I'm asking you, because I'm assuming you watched it.. what did he do well? How do you think he swayed voters or did enough to stay where he is, to counter his massive gaffes?
Like I said, I don't think he did particularly well. But he did just enough to hold serve. That's what those articles are saying as well. To act like those articles are proof of media bias is ridiculous and conspiratory.
The polling already shows that he did enough to stay where he is, though. I think he did terribly, just better than previous debates, where his numbers were maintained.
What chance do they have if none of the US media supports them?
Biden is partially being saved by such a large crowd still running. Put him on a debate stage against 4 or 5 others and I think he would do much worse having to continually speak
538 results are in. Not a huge change. Castro self-owned, Biden dropped a smidge, Sanders dropped more, Warren went up a decent amount:
Beto didn't get much of a bump but Butti did.
The chart you posted was from asking the same people before and after the debate.
He's referring to this:
You don't think there is anything inherently misleading with a title like "Joe Biden keeps on winning"? I'm not saying there is some grand conspiracy, but a title like that doesn't highlight his embarrassing gaffes. I get that some of those things are addressed in the articles but people often just read titles and that's good enough for them.
The era bubble isn't that Bernire or Warren have a chance. Of course they do. The bubble is that Biden is crashing, which is demonstrably false.
The subtitle is: Despite a shaky performance nobody is really taking him on. Which is to say, they're not saying that he did well in the debate, just that he's still winning in the polls. Which he is.
What? An incoherent, meandering, racist diatribe about record players is super normal and ok.
I read that. I'm not saying they don't address his gaffes at all, but the title alone is misleading. And lots of people form their narratives off of only titles. I think it's extremely misleading to not work in his massive missteps into the title of the piece. because they were bigger than in previous debates and people deserve to know. Part of that forms public opinion.
538 results are in. Not a huge change. Castro self-owned, Biden dropped a smidge, Sanders dropped more, Warren went up a decent amount:
Beto didn't get much of a bump but Butti did.
According to whatever this is - Warren and Pete had the biggest bumps, and Biden, Harris, Sanders and Castro lost support. Harris was actually the biggest loss of support.
Ah, sorry forgot to link it like I did in poliera:
Bunch of stuff here.
Ratings for last night's 2020 Democratic Debate on ABC and Telemundo are in. The debate drew a grand total of 14 million viewers from ABC and Telemundo together, which is still really good:
Deadline
Deadline
Deadline said:
Everybody gets called out in this timeline, so it'll happen.
I hope Warren doesn't get Bernie'd by the DNC.
It was actually a little surprising to see a handful of people here thinking Bernie performed well last night. Sore throat aside, he was pretty terrible. Especially in comparison to Beto and Warren.
Both were excellent and I really wish Beto would have gone after that Texas Senate seat and set his eyes on 2024 or 2028 instead. He's a future President... the beginning of his campaign and inexperience really dug him a deep hole I'm not sure he can get out of unfortunately.
One thing that can't be disputed, nobody on that stage is anywhere as forceful or poignant speaking on race about race relations than Beto. Bernie could take a hint or two in this regard.
Both were excellent and I really wish Beto would have gone after that Texas Senate seat and set his eyes on 2024 or 2028 instead. He's a future President... the beginning of his campaign and inexperience really dug him a deep hole I'm not sure he can get out of unfortunately.
One thing that can't be disputed, nobody on that stage is anywhere as forceful or poignant speaking on race about race relations than Beto. Bernie could take a hint or two in this regard.
I actually think Booker's strongest moments in the debate were talking about race. I'd put them on the same level as Beto. He'll forever be a senator, though.
Bernie had a great answer on that stupid Venezuela question, and then a very good one on pointing out his voting record against Biden. He started off kind of slow, but had a very good finish. Since no one was a stand out, you can say his performance was good.