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Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
And I say Bernie's legacy is going to be people like AOC and Ilhan Omar, ideas like free college and single-payer becoming mainstream, the word "socialism" becoming destigmatized, and there being a bridge between young voters (to whom people like Hillary and Biden have nothing to say), and the Democratic party. Because let's be clear: the near-unfettered capitalism of the USA is an existential threat to the next generation of people, and socialism is the antidote.

Bernie's legacy means many things, including what I said. Ignoring his flaws don't make them disappear. The negative consequences of those actions will occur, regardless.

That was my point. It's really bizarre to think that 3 years is enough time to succeed. You've decided it failed already. Meanwhile he has largely influenced all the candidates to be more left this election cycle. What happens with whoever wins? Does that not count?

Except that was never enough to please Bernie or many of his supporters. Influence alone has no pacified the left in the slightest, they want it all now.
 

BowieZ

Member
Nov 7, 2017
3,971
As much as I "love" relitigating 2016 I have to clear something up. The often cited figures that say 90% of Sanders voters voted for Hillary implies that 90% of the 13.4 million votes Sanders got in the primary went to Clinton in the general... which isn't actually true. The question poised was "If you voted for Sanders in the primary and voted in the general election who did you vote for?" which gives us absolutely no clue how many of his voters turned out.
The burden of proof is on the HillaryBros who seem to pluck anecdotes out of the twitterspherical ether in order to claim that Sanders converted Dems who would've voted for Clinton but then abandoned the Party because of him by Election Day.
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,177
Bernie just repeats his cassette tape over and over again
Because it's a damn good cassette tape. Hopefully people make him out of date by adopting his policy on allowing inmates to vote for example.

It's so strange how so many people on here say Bernie is out of touch, yet there is no one more to the left of him. They also hate Yang who is the only person serious about ideas like automation taking over so many jobs. That's an issue that is going to come up.

Let's just be real here. You guys have your favorites and these little "out of touch" remarks are just bs.
 

Jeremy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,639
Others have noted this in this thread over the last two nights, but Bernie 2016 truly is the winner of these debates so far. The shift to the left is entirely palpable. Warren's ideas didn't get challenged whatsoever and on night 2 Bernie's 2016 playbook sounded like old hat (although his form of anger has a certain rhetorical power still) and consistently it was centrists who took the most fire on the stage.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,239
Made this just for you:

ezgif-1-c85558ae4fca.gif

Thank you, this would mean the world to me if I had not had an epiphany of a, shall we say, galaxy brain take, wherein I realized we don't need to be vaccinated if Astral Godmother Marianne Williamson is planning on causing Third Impact.

(All joking aside about Tonight's Beloved Meme Candidate, anti-vaxx stuff is real bad!)
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Because it's a damn good cassette tape. Hopefully people make him out of date by adopting his policy on allowing inmates to vote for example.

It's so strange how so many people on here say Bernie is out of touch, yet there is no one more to the left of him. They also hate Yang who is the only person serious about ideas like automation taking over so many jobs. That's an issue that is going to come up.

Let's just be real here. You guys have your favorites and these little "out of touch" remarks are just bs.
his delivery sucks and we always know the punchline because it is always the same.

oh, he soft on guns
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
What a bad thing for people to treat climate change an existential threat and demand reform now.

Demanding reform Bernie style has barely moved the needle. And he sat on his ass for 20 years before bringing it to national attention.

Well of course it's the same. We're still dealing with those same problems. As icy said it, we haven't reformed our country yet.

And it never will unless he comes up with a new schtick because the old material isn't working.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Well of course it's the same. We're still dealing with those same problems. As icy said it, we haven't reformed our country yet.
his message sucked when he talked about taxes to pay for universal healthcare.

such a bad delivery

there are so many other creative ways to talk about find money to pay for the program but he did the dumbest shit:.... tax people..... LOL
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,177
Oh look, here are Hillary supporters who were radicalized



Wait, you're telling me this happens to a lot of sore loser voters? It's not just Bernie bros?

his message sucked when he talked about taxes to pay for universal healthcare.

such a bad delivery

there are so many other creative ways to talk about find money to pay for the program but he did the dumbest shit:.... tax people..... LOL

Higher taxes =/= more money out of our pockets
 

BowieZ

Member
Nov 7, 2017
3,971
Because it's a damn good cassette tape. Hopefully people make him out of date by adopting his policy on allowing inmates to vote for example.

It's so strange how so many people on here say Bernie is out of touch, yet there is no one more to the left of him. They also hate Yang who is the only person serious about ideas like automation taking over so many jobs. That's an issue that is going to come up.

Let's just be real here. You guys have your favorites and these little "out of touch" remarks are just bs.
Imagine having an act so rich after decades consistently performing the same songs, that your cassette tape is refined and still revitalisingly fresh 20-30 years later.

But yeah "same cassette" etc
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Oh look, here are Hillary supporters who were radicalized



Wait, you're telling me this happens to a lot of sore loser voters? It's not just Bernie bros?


Did any put out hit lists to target politicians like Bernie's? Did Hillary herself encourage conspiracy theories among her followers that the DNC rigged the election for Obama?
 

Googleplex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
747
his message sucked when he talked about taxes to pay for universal healthcare.

such a bad delivery

there are so many other creative ways to talk about find money to pay for the program but he did the dumbest shit:.... tax people..... LOL

Bernie is a shit candidate period. He and Biden both get the extra benefits of being old white dudes.
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,177
Did any put out hit lists to target politicians like Bernie's? Did Hillary herself encourage conspiracy theories among her followers that the DNC rigged the election for Obama?
The polls spoke for themselves. Great amount of Bernie supporters voted for Hillary. Hillary had the most votes. I thought that's why the majority of this forum blamed it on the electorate? Trump won on merit now?

Bernie is a shit candidate period. He and Biden both get the extra benefits of being old white dudes.
Being an old white dude doesn't mean he can't make my life better. He would also be the first Jewish president btw.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Imagine having an act so rich after decades consistently performing the same songs, that your cassette tape is refined and still revitalisingly fresh 20-30 years later.

But yeah "same cassette" etc

That's not fresh, this is fresh:



Bernie isn't doing anything this creative on the campaign trail or in congress.

The polls spoke for themselves. Great amount of Bernie supporters voted for Hillary. Hillary had the most votes. I thought that's why the majority of this forum blamed it on the electorate? Trump won on merit now?

Polls are great, sure, but they aren't 100% proof someone voted for people. Do you have proof those pollsters were part of those 3 million? The country has over 300 million.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
But she can't run for presidency. And if that's the standard we're going with, then jesus whoever you're voting for is going to lose out too. AOC is a rockstar.

I don't know what standards you're using but they're not mine lol

edit: This isn't about running, this is about winning and losing properly so the Dem nominee can get the edge required in the general, rather than having them bleeding on the floor than throwing them at Donald Trump.
 
Oct 30, 2017
707
That's not fresh, this is fresh:



Bernie isn't doing anything this creative on the campaign trail or in congress.



Polls are great, sure, but they aren't 100% proof someone voted for people. Do you have proof those pollsters were part of those 3 million? The country has over 300 million.

You're like the political version of a homer

It's embarrassing to watch

You are literally the only one out there still fighting this fight, because it's transparently ridiculous and it's so clear to pretty much everyone that this is a thing you're only doing because you're emotionally invested in not being wrong
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
Did any put out hit lists to target politicians like Bernie's?

she didn't need her followers to order hits

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton defended staying in the Democratic nominating contest on Friday by pointing out that her husband had not wrapped up the nomination until June 1992, adding, "We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California."

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/24/us/politics/24clinton.html
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
I don't know what standards you're using but they're not mine lol

edit: This isn't about running, this is about winning and losing properly so the Dem nominee can get the edge required in the general, rather than having them bleeding on the floor than throwing them at Donald Trump.
don't worry, Warren is going to win Iowa leaving Bernie struggling and he will flat out lose hard in South Carolina

with Warren taking up space on the Left-Lane, Bernie is going to run out of gas sooner in 2020 than in 2016
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
don't worry, Warren is going to win Iowa leaving Bernie struggling and he will flat out lose hard in South Carolina

with Warren taking up space on the Left-Lane, Bernie is going to run out of gas sooner in 2020 than in 2016

Sadly, I'm not concerned about him losing as much as Bernie quitting when he should so Warren can take home the win from Biden.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,631
Some quick thoughts on the debate:
- Kamala exceeded everyone's expectations with her Biden attacks and she's gonna see a bump in the polls as a result.
- Bernie was too much of the same old and he doesn't seem fresh like he did in 2016 anymore.
- I thought Pete's performance was disastrous in the beginning and I don't see this debate helping his poll numbers.
- Yang flew completely under the radar and was less memorable than Hickenlooper. I think the hosts should have interacted with him more and he should have been more involved.
- Williamson is interesting and you can tell she speaks from the heart but I'm not sure that kind of thinking and rhetoric are compatible with politics at large.
- Swalwell interrupted everyone and that "pass the torch to me" moment was cringey.
- Biden won't sink just yet - sure, Kamala attacking him on the busing and segregationist issues and Bernie calling him out on voting for the Iraq war were powerful blows that will leave a lasting impact, but I think he handled himself well enough to the point where most of the damage can be nullified.

But man, Pete really blew it in his opening statement. Admitting failure at managing the city you're Mayor of (his sole responsibility) is not the way to go when you're being watched by millions. His AA outreach is still pitiful and without that there's no path to the nomination for him. He's not Beto levels of over, but he needs to prepare more for future debates if he makes it.
 

Deleted member 28564

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,604
Watched this late. Instead of rating the candidates, I'll just give my quick thoughts. Gillibrand and Swalwell annoyed me more than I thought possible. Clearly trying to get their names out there. Flies. They are like flies repeatedly flying crashing into a window. Williamson is super zany. She only has a vague understanding of the issues and it shows. Andrew Yang's inane contributions ($1000???) carried no weight whatsoever. Hickenlooper seemed levelheaded, but he's clearly too grounded to be a meaningful president with his bizarre fears of "socialism scaring people". Biden is a lost cause, and I couldn't be happier that he was trounced. Buttigieg was very much not Beto'd. He actually sounded competent -- not like a trained dog. Kamala and Bernie are my picks for the debate. I wish Sanders would stick to topic a little more. Oh, then there's that other guy who I can't be bothered to remember.

Keep Harris, Bernie and Buttigieg. Kick out the rest.
 

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215
Maybe you should check the poliera thread considering how many people there are shitting on pelosi

Yea I'm not getting these all encompassing "Era wanted" posts. Plenty of feel people are done with Pelosi and didn't buy Beto or Pete for head of state . On that note with as many inarguable positives Kamala displayed tonight, why are some people still so vehemently " Never Kamala" before we see her responses to being called on her AG history? It is certain to happen
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
kamala harris should have shut her campaign down out of shame after lying about listening to tupac in the 80s
And this is why Chapo soundbites are bad.


The only problem: Ms. Harris's campaign vehemently denies that she ever claimed to be listening to Tupac and Snoop Dogg while in college, and a video recording of the radio interview provides additional context that may support that account.

Ms. Harris appeared Monday morning on "The Breakfast Club," the wildly popular and wide-ranging morning radio show that often focuses on hip-hop and black culture. During her appearance, Ms. Harris discussed her support for marijuana legalization, and said she wanted the federal government to loosen restrictions so the drug could be properly researched.

Charlamagne tha God, one of the show's hosts, asked Ms. Harris if she had ever smoked marijuana herself — a question presidential candidates have long been loath to answer. Ms. Harris confidently said she had, adding, "and I did inhale."

"It was a long time ago," Ms. Harris said, laughing.

Later in the interview, Ms. Harris was asked about her taste in music. She has previously named California artists like Tupac and Snoop Dogg among her favorites.

"What does Kamala Harris listen to?" asked D.J. Envy, another one of the show's hosts.

Before Ms. Harris answered the question, Charlamagne tha God interjected, asking her to say what she listened to while she smoked in college. Everyone laughed, before D.J. Envy appeared to return to his original question.

"Was it Snoop?" he asked.

"Oh yeah, definitely Snoop," Ms. Harris said. "Tupac for sure."

Chaos ensued. The viral tweet pointed out that Snoop Dogg and Tupac did not debut until Ms. Harris had left college. Then music blogs and conservative outlets begin to write up the exchange. However, several of them omitted the fact that D.J. Envy had asked Ms. Harris more generally about her music opinions, a key portion in the exchange that makes it unclear whose question Ms. Harris was responding to.
Yea I'm not getting these all encompassing "Era wanted" posts. Plenty of feel people are done with Pelosi and didn't buy Beto or Pete for head of state . On that note with as many inarguable positives Kamala displayed tonight, why are some people still so vehemently " Never Kamala" before we see her responses to being called on her AG history? It is certain to happen
Because they view her as a threat to their preferred candidate. Or are just right wing trolls.
 

LordByron28

Member
Nov 5, 2017
2,348
As much as I "love" relitigating 2016 I have to clear something up. The often cited figures that say 90% of Sanders voters voted for Hillary implies that 90% of the 13.4 million votes Sanders got in the primary went to Clinton in the general... which isn't actually true. The question poised was "If you voted for Sanders in the primary and voted in the general election who did you vote for?" which gives us absolutely no clue how many of his voters turned out.
We have even less evidence that Sanders voters didnt vote for Hillary which cost her the election. Other than anecdotal, crazy things people said online. Many of which were ousted as Russian trolls. People even in this election cycle still are falling for and responding to Russian trolls imitating Sanders fans. I figured they would've learned but the Bernie hate is blind among many.

Bernie's legacy means many things, including what I said. Ignoring his flaws don't make them disappear. The negative consequences of those actions will occur, regardless.



Except that was never enough to please Bernie or many of his supporters. Influence alone has no pacified the left in the slightest, they want it all now.
So on one hand Bernie is completely unrealistic and can never pull off his ambitions which would upset and disrupt tons of people within politics. On the other hand, he should also be satisfied with what he has and stop now that he has momentum and a growing movement within politics. After the 2016 election there were many Democrats, including Kamala, that started working with him on creating bills. Hillary made concessions and also adopted a few of the things he preached about in his campaign. Now we have a whole field of candidates spouting the same stuff as him in this election cycle. I'm curious if he kept going, if he could continue to get more people within politics supporting his policies. He sounds like a broken cassette drilling in the same information but that same strategy somehow worked with Fox News and brainwashed who knows how many people.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
In lmao news: apparently the Drudge "instant poll" of the debates that had Gabbard on top for the first debate has Yang on top for the second.
 

Deleted member 41502

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 28, 2018
1,177
And, Bernie is not alone re: the rigging talk; the 2016 primaries were run with the assumption that the outcome was inevitable. It's not some wild-eyed conspiracy theory that the DNC had preferences, the debate schedule was incredibly light, making it hard to get the spotlight, and the superdelegates were locked up by Clinton very early on - earlier and more decisively than for any candidate in the party's history. It would have been a miracle for anyone to overcome that situation. Wasserman-Schultz lost her job leading the DNC when the DNC's preferences and "active plotting" came to light via WikiLeaks after the Russia hack.
If you actually dig into that "active plotting" stuff, it reads like a self-fulfilling prophecy from Bernie's side as well. i.e. the email they hold up as a smoking gun is a single email where someone, out of the blue, suggests asking Sanders about his religion (and no evidence that anyone ever did, let alone did at the behest of the DNC).

Digging through emails between the same people to try and figure out why they'd write that, you'll just find they're the ones tasked with combating Bernies attacks that the DNC was (quoting Bernie) "laundering money".

i.e. it wound up being a self-fulfiling prophecy from Bernie's side as well. He spent most of his campaign demonizing all these people as villains, and then acted shocked to discover they weren't in love with him.

What a fucking ugly election season all around. Everyone treating everyone else like shit.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
the mechanics of m4a seem less an issue here than the idea you agree to things without understanding what youre agreeing to
Tbh, from Harris's previous interviews on the subject it seems more like she wants to actually eliminate private insurance (though she's not set on it) but her staffers know that's not a good stance for the general public and try to clean up her statements. She has literally said that she wants to wipe out private insurance point blank (Which I don't view as a positive in the least) and her staffers tried their best to contort that into something else.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,809
lol


Yang is claiming his mic was cut, not that he's too afraid to interrupt people.

Should be easy to see him in the background trying to speak, right?
 

Zoator

Member
Oct 27, 2017
401
That's the better plan. Especially considering that the idea of eliminating private insurance doesn't even poll well in the democratic party better yet the general electorate.

I disagree, but I don't think anyone has done a particularly good job of selling it yet. Fortunately there's a lot of time to make the case broadly to the American people. I actually think a lot of people would agree with the following statement from a moral perspective: "Healthcare is a human right, not a commodity, and your quality of healthcare (and access to said care) should not be determined by how much money you have."

If people agree with that, then it's not terribly hard to argue that it can only be true without private insurance. Private insurance must be made completely obsolete. If it provides additional value over the public system, then that runs directly counter to that statement. Everyone, rich and poor, needs to be playing on the same field in order for it to work. If the wealthy want to buy better care, the only way they should be able to do so is by collectively chipping in more tax contributions to raise the quality of care for everyone, themselves included.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
We have even less evidence that Sanders voters didnt vote for Hillary which cost her the election. Other than anecdotal, crazy things people said online. Many of which were ousted as Russian trolls. People even in this election cycle still are falling for and responding to Russian trolls imitating Sanders fans. I figured they would've learned but the Bernie hate is blind among many.

There were more than Russian bots as Bernie stans in '16. How does this explain the infamous Bernie Bro who was making hit list on the DNC? This ignores Bernie and his staff's insistence to encourage this among is own followers then and now.

So on one hand Bernie is completely unrealistic and can never pull off his ambitions which would upset and disrupt tons of people within politics. On the other hand, he should also be satisfied with what he has and stop now that he has momentum and a growing movement within politics. After the 2016 election there were many Democrats, including Kamala, that started working with him on creating bills. Hillary made concessions and also adopted a few of the things he preached about in his campaign. Now we have a whole field of candidates spouting the same stuff as him in this election cycle.

It comes a point when one man must stop and pass the torch to others, if the movement can't survive without him at this stage he hasn't provided them with the proper opportunity long term to begin with. His work is done, he can still do work in the senate and advise, of course. There's Warren competing now, let the old man rest. Why wouldn't be be satisfied by what he's done? His momentum isn't guaranteed and he's in a tougher ride with this outing, as his ideas have been taken and expanded upon by the field (aside from Biden) and he's not so unique any longer. This isn't '16. Which is as much a case for him to retire than stay in because he's a man, and things won't be so friendly like they are now. It can get a whole lot worse and knowing his history he has much a chance to sabotage the progress made unless he wins somehow. And that is not a guarantee.

I'm curious if he kept going, if he could continue to get more people within politics supporting his policies. He sounds like a broken cassette drilling in the same information but that same strategy somehow worked with Fox News and brainwashed who knows how many people.

You wanted to give Hillary less time to form her coalition before the general? How would that help the Dems defeat Trump? Bernie's tactics help with his socialist brigade, it hasn't proven to be as affect on the national scale as he needs to win. He's for the Young Turks and various leftist You Tubers, pod casters and magazines like Jacobin in his corner but that's a blip on the radar to Fox news alone.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
I disagree, but I don't think anyone has done a particularly good job of selling it yet. Fortunately there's a lot of time to make the case broadly to the American people. I actually think a lot of people would agree with the following statement from a moral perspective: "Healthcare is a human right, not a commodity, and your quality of healthcare (and access to said care) should not be determined by how much money you have."

If people agree with that, then it's not terribly hard to argue that it can only be true without private insurance. Private insurance must be made completely obsolete. If it provides additional value over the public system, then that runs directly counter to that statement. Everyone, rich and poor, needs to be playing on the same field in order for it to work. If the wealthy want to buy better care, the only way they should be able to do so is by collectively chipping in more tax contributions to raise the quality of care for everyone, themselves included.

You are not going to see America push further than countries who have had universal healthcare for decades and completely eliminate private insurance. Furthermore we dont even need to in order to provide better care and reach universal coverage. Going on the banning public insurance route will only push many Americans against you. I dont even want to get into how fast the supreme court would come down gutting a bill that even tried.

I dont know why Kamala keeps getting tripped up. I'm almost positive no one in the general election is going to be campaigning on ending private insurance because it's unpopular.
 
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