2020 Presidential Democratic Primary Debates 1+2 |OT| June 26-27, 2019

Kevin Shields

Member
Oct 27, 2017
311
Which candidate do you lean to the most till now?
I’m kind of just getting into it based on debates, I liked Harris last night and I like Pete’s personality and that he plays Spoon songs, but some of his rhetoric makes me think he can’t beat trump :)

Some candidates like Bernie are a little out there for me on some fiscal policies I’m open to anyone for sure though!
 

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,551
Framing a lazy attack as "true" when said attack is factually false. She is, factually, not a cop.
Not only that but would you take her or a man who told cops it's okay to beat people up.

I'm interested in people's EXISTING POLICY POSITIONS as criticisms, AKA some of the things Pete has said about not moving the embassy from Jerusalem.
 

Melkr_

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,870
I am highly pessimistic after this debate. It seems that liberals once again will get away with it and delusionally elect someone who will be ultimately destroyed in generals.
 

solidussnaku

Member
Nov 29, 2017
717
Agree but I’m wondering what strategy is best to beat him

A biden like character with a progressive VP. With a progressive POC VP that could be a shoe in.

Looking at Bernie's campaign so far, he'd be a solid second choice.

It's a damn shame old white men are the only ones with a shot of beating trump, but that is the state of things for now.

I, mean there is a reason why Biden such a force in the party, polls and by the media I've seen, with the base too. He keeps having gaffed that should de rail him but he keeps his lead in the polls and position in the party.

His promise to take things how they were in the Obama years is a pretty damn effective remedy for a traumatized nation.
 

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,202
I am highly pessimistic after this debate. It seems that liberals once again will get away with it and delusionally elect someone who will be ultimately destroyed in generals.
You’re incapable of entertaining the thought of anyone but Bernie, so this is understandable. Feel better.

A biden like character with a progressive VP. With a progressive POC VP that could be a shoe in.

Looking at Bernie's campaign so far, he'd be a solid second choice.

It's a damn shame old white men are the only ones with a shot of beating trump, but that is the state of things for now.

I, mean there is a reason why Biden such a force in the party, polls and by the media I've seen, with the base too. He keeps having gaffed that should de rail him but he keeps his lead in the polls and position in the party.

His promise to take things how they were in the Obama years is a pretty damn effective remedy for a traumatized nation.
He polls well because people have a rosy view of Biden from the Obama years. He’s trying to coast on nostalgia. This debate showed why he’s not as strong as people like to imagine. Watch as the campaign goes along, I think his shine will fade.

An old white man is not the only one who can beat Trump, either. Democratic presidential candidates who are younger are historically the ones who actually go on to win. A Biden/Sanders ticket would be terrible.
 

caliph95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,685
When are they going to start reducing the amount of people that can join the debates because there's way too many people
 

Bliman

Member
Jan 21, 2019
1,381
I’m kind of just getting into it based on debates, I liked Harris last night and I like Pete’s personality and that he plays Spoon songs, but some of his rhetoric makes me think he can’t beat trump :)

Some candidates like Bernie are a little out there for me on some fiscal policies I’m open to anyone for sure though!
Thank you
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,137
I am highly pessimistic after this debate. It seems that liberals once again will get away with it and delusionally elect someone who will be ultimately destroyed in generals.
"Destroyed" like winning the popular vote and losing by 100k voters in three states after a 40 year hate campaign, complicit media and explicit foreign election interference?
 

Fork

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,465
Lima, Peru
Not only that but would you take her or a man who told cops it's okay to beat people up.

I'm interested in people's EXISTING POLICY POSITIONS as criticisms, AKA some of the things Pete has said about not moving the embassy from Jerusalem.
Pete and Kamala are bad, yes

These opinions arent mutually exclusive, as anyone who isnt Warren or Sanders might as well be wearing clown shoes
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,670
Watching the debate right now, and I have to mention this:

Marianne finally has the opportunity to speak, and almost instantly I feel compelled to pause it and take a break. Seeing her dismiss the conversation around Medicare-for-All as just a bunch of "superficial fixes" on the basis that Trump didn't win because of "plans" was such an ugh moment.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,219
Sweden
I’m a moderate republican completely turned off by Trump, but I’m not nearly as liberal as many on this board or many of the candidates but I will not be voting for Trump.

Do you think the best strategy for beating trump is going far to the left or finding someone in the middle that can take on some disaffected conservatives like myself?

I’m new to this side of ERA so direct me if I’m in wrong thread...
you didn't state where you're at in terms of policy specifics so i am going to make some assumptions here. you can correct them if you think they're off base

when you say you are a moderate republican who is turned off by trump, that sounds to me like someone who wants low taxes, but who dislikes trump because of what he is doing to usa's institutions, reputation abroad, the democratic system itself and how his policy severely hurts one or more of the following groups: non-white people, LGBT people, immigrants

is that about correct?

then i would ask you, if the democrats were to nominate a candidate relatively far to the left. someone who wouldn't even be shy of increasing taxes quite a bit, how would you vote? would you vote for that left-wing candidate or stay at home / vote third party? what would you consider more important: restoring your country's institutions, reputation, democracy and dignity of the groups trump go after on the one hand, or maintaining really low taxes on the other hand?

if you would be able to stomach higher taxes for restoring those aspects of american life that trump is threatening, then so would likely many other moderates like yourself. in that case, nominating someone who would enthuse people on the left would likely be the better strategy, if moderates like yourself could still stomach voting for someone like that in order to get rid of trump
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,195
"Destroyed" like winning the popular vote and losing by 100k voters in three states after a 40 year hate campaign, complicit media and explicit foreign election interference?
I mean, you're arguing against a pattern of bad faith posting and concern trolling. It's nice of you to try but I don't expect you'll have much of an impact here.
Pete and Kamala are bad, yes

These opinions arent mutually exclusive, as anyone who isnt Warren or Sanders might as well be wearing clown shoes
Is this a joke post?
 

Muzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,316
People are so desperately trying to turn Kamala into “the next Hillary” by painting her as establishment, a corporate shill, etc. when there’s literally nothing in common with the two.

Literally any of the real candidates sans Biden will do a lot of good. Harris, Warren, Sanders, I will enthusiastically vote for any of these three.

But of course literally nothing but Bernie will satisfy some of y’all and I’m sure you’ll poison the discourse enough on our eventual candidate to get Trump another four years and fuck this country up enough to last my lifetime. :)

BTW fuck all y’all white boys trying so hard to paint Kamala as “a cop” without ever experiencing a smidge of racism yourself.
 

G_Shumi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,817
Cleveland, OH
Here are the final ratings for last night's Democratic Debate (Night 2) 2020:

Deadline
With 18.1 million tuning in to see Sen. Kamala Harris school the former VP, the simulcast across NBC, MSNBC, and Telemundo is officially the most watched debate that the party of FDR, JFK, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton has ever had.

Topping the previous high of the CNN-hosted and Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders-led yakfest of October 2015 by 2.6 million, last night’s debate also had 9 million viewers and 14 million video views across all platforms such as NBCNews.com, MSNBC.com, Telemundo.com, NBC News NOW on OTT devices, Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.
TV Line
NBC’s coverage of Thursday’s Democratic presidential debate delivered 8.8 million total viewers and a 1.9 demo rating, up 19 percent from the fast nationals for Night 1 and obviously dominating the night in both measures. With MSNBC and Telemundo coverage folded in, Night 2’s audience grows to 18.1 million, besting the previous record set (in October 2015) for a Democratic presidential primary debate by 2.6 million. Plus, another nine million viewers watched via live streams.
Let's hope the momentum will keep going with future Democratic debates (although hopefully on one night instead of two). I'm also hoping that the big viewership translates to big voting numbers in May 2020.
 

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,386
People are so desperately trying to turn Kamala into “the next Hillary” by painting her as establishment, a corporate shill, etc. when there’s literally nothing in common with the two.

Literally any of the real candidates sans Biden will do a lot of good. Harris, Warren, Sanders, I will enthusiastically vote for any of these three.

But of course literally nothing but Bernie will satisfy some of y’all and I’m sure you’ll poison the discourse enough on our eventual candidate to get Trump another four years and fuck this country up enough to last my lifetime. :)

BTW fuck all y’all white boys trying so hard to paint Kamala as “a cop” without ever experiencing a smidge of racism yourself.
TBH I consider myself an ardent Bernie supporter and came away from the debate thinking he didn't do so hot and that I would be satisfied voting for Kamala as well.
 

The Mad Mango

Member
Oct 27, 2017
759
Yang is claiming that his mic was frequently muted. There may be some video evidence to back him up:

TBH I consider myself an ardent Bernie supporter and came away from the debate thinking he didn't do so hot and that I would be satisfied voting for Kamala as well.
I've donated quite a bit to Bernie (with Yang being the other candidate I've donated to) and I feel the same.
 

Kevin Shields

Member
Oct 27, 2017
311
you didn't state where you're at in terms of policy specifics so i am going to make some assumptions here. you can correct them if you think they're off base

when you say you are a moderate republican who is turned off by trump, that sounds to me like someone who wants low taxes, but who dislikes trump because of what he is doing to usa's institutions, reputation abroad, the democratic system itself and how his policy severely hurts one or more of the following groups: non-white people, LGBT people, immigrants

is that about correct?

then i would ask you, if the democrats were to nominate a candidate relatively far to the left. someone who wouldn't even be shy of increasing taxes quite a bit, how would you vote? would you vote for that left-wing candidate or stay at home / vote third party? what would you consider more important: restoring your country's institutions, reputation, democracy and dignity of the groups trump go after on the one hand, or maintaining really low taxes on the other hand?

if you would be able to stomach higher taxes for restoring those aspects of american life that trump is threatening, then so would likely many other moderates like yourself. in that case, nominating someone who would enthuse people on the left would likely be the better strategy, if moderates like yourself could still stomach voting for someone like that in order to get rid of trump
The reasons you gave for not liking Trump are pretty spot on along with the fact that he’s a blowhard and an idiot. Ha, to be honest fiscal policy is important and so sometimes Bernie seems crazy to me, but I also care about other issues. I lean pro life on many policy decisions but also immigration (in which is my #1 dislike of Trump’s term) is very imortsnr to me and finding a candidate that lined up with me on two important issues are hard for me.

Where I’m coming from is that I didn’t vote in 2016 because I disliked both candidates but I’m probably not going to do that again. I will probably vote Democrat but there are some candidates that it will be really hard for me to stomach. I know there are a lot of my friends who are in my shoes.
 

brainchild

GameXplain
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
6,784
Minnesota
Some argued that Sanders was being strategic by not being aggressive with Biden because it would turn off people who like Biden (even if he's not their first choice), and now I'm thinking that might have been good, if some of the reactions over Kamala attacking Biden are anything to go by.
 

Googleplex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
309
Some argued that Sanders was being strategic by not being aggressive with Biden because it would turn off people who like Biden (even if he's not their first choice), and now I'm thinking that might have been good, if some of the reactions over Kamala attacking Biden are anything to go by.
Actually the only people that are attacking her are the same people that have always been attacking her. I.E. people that see her as a threat to Bernie getting his coronation. Bernie fans are doubling their attacks on her after how fantastically she performed last night.
 

Prodigal Son

Member
Oct 27, 2017
670
Some argued that Sanders was being strategic by not being aggressive with Biden because it would turn off people who like Biden (even if he's not their first choice), and now I'm thinking that might have been good, if some of the reactions over Kamala attacking Biden are anything to go by.
im thinking sanders should have been more aggressive tbh. hes plenty critical of other candidates on social media (his team is) and when it came down to it he barely touched biden or anyone else

Actually the only people that are attacking her are the same people that have always been attacking her. I.E. people that see her as a threat to Bernie getting his coronation. Bernie fans are doubling their attacks on her after how fantastically she performed last night.
yeah dude you got it
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,140
Some argued that Sanders was being strategic by not being aggressive with Biden because it would turn off people who like Biden (even if he's not their first choice), and now I'm thinking that might have been good, if some of the reactions over Kamala attacking Biden are anything to go by.
I think letting Kamala go after Biden was the right choice. Biden needs a spoiler in the center left for Bernie to have a chance.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,490
Some argued that Sanders was being strategic by not being aggressive with Biden because it would turn off people who like Biden (even if he's not their first choice), and now I'm thinking that might have been good, if some of the reactions over Kamala attacking Biden are anything to go by.
Better for someone to get a leg up off Biden that agrees with Bernie on M4A. Though, she has been a bit shaky, I'd rather her get the leg up than one of the centrist.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,221
sanders played nice with bidne because he thinks he has to save his bon mots for the april debates next year
 
Dec 13, 2018
121
I’m happy with any candidate that eliminates student debt and makes college free , i’d Imagine that’d spark a housing boom and have a huge impact on a large portion of the populations lifetime net worth ... take it out of the defense budget
 

Caspah

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,755
Graveyard in Boston
I’m happy with any candidate that eliminates student debt and makes college free , i’d Imagine that’d spark a housing boom and have a huge impact on a large portion of the populations lifetime net worth ... take it out of the defense budget
It depends on how they do it. I agree that simply saying “college is free” is mostly only benefitting rich kids. If community college were made free and treated as a 13th and 14th year of public school I’d be on board with that. I don't want rich people getting a break on their kids’ tuition. It’s probably the only thing I agree with Sanders on.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,730
I am highly pessimistic after this debate. It seems that liberals once again will get away with it and delusionally elect someone who will be ultimately destroyed in generals.
Aw, guess it's true then... Even the stans feel that Bernie under-performed.

Good. The sooner we can start thinning the herd, the better.

Harris is proving that she can be a dangerous candidate, Warren has got a plan for everything, and then there's Biden... It's gonna take a while to see if he can be dethroned- I hope that he can, but his lead is gigantic already.
 
Dec 13, 2018
121
It depends on how they do it. I agree that simply saying “college is free” is mostly only benefitting rich kids. If community college were made free and treated as a 13th and 14th year of public school I’d be on board with that. I don't want rich people getting a break on their kids’ tuition. It’s probably the only thing I agree with Sanders on.
Nah, IMO education and health care are human rights and should be treated as such. Tax the rich more, and let what should be a public service be a public service.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,040
Warren having a plan for anything is great and all but she's not gonna be gaining anything out of the debates with her performance on the first day. She wasn't really debating so much as being interviewed while a bunch of other people were actually debating. Still, better than Bernie getting a question about anything and diverting to his stump speech. At least Warren can think on her feet instead of going scripted.


Anyway, for my completely objective™ take on who the best debaters in the field are:
Harris: Her prosecutorial experience really comes in handy in the "thinking on your feet and demanding a room's attention" sphere. She can really look like the adult in the room while seeming to be passionate about whatever it is she's talking about. May not always get into details but always addresses the question and brings up relevant anecdotes (And, let's be honest, getting into nitty-gritty details in debates doesn't really help with the average voter and may even turn them away depending on how it's done).

Steals away time by speaking over moderators (Without stumbling or stuttering) and interrupting at just the right moment to not get into yelling fights that make her look bad.

Castro: Knows how to get across passion and be prepared for a debate, also knows how to stick it where it hurts and get time. Can think on his feet without sounding scripted. Stuck out the most during his debate despite speaking less time than Warren and Booker.

Booker: Similar to Castro, gets across less passion, but knows how to gain time.

Pete: Doesn't get flustered in the face of attacks, can think on his feet, and can keep a consistent tone.

Warren: Knows what the fuck she's talking about at any given moment without having to run to a stump speech. Ask her anything and most of the time she'll have an answer. Doesn't try to engage with anyone on stage and kinda fades into the background, however.

....

Bernie: Always back to a stump speech (that literally everyone who'd watch a debate has heard some form of) that he rewords a bit regardless of the question. He's like a more grouchy Marco Rubio debate-wise in that regard. Actually went and stuck his foot in his mouth saying he'd raise taxes on everyone (Technically necessary, politically suicidal).

Biden: Not as present as he usually in in debates. For most of the debate he was just doing the minimum necessary to maintain his numbers, which may have been a strategy on his part or just old age making him less reactive. Can't take an attack without putting his foot in his mouth.

Bennet: He'll answer the question posed to him, bring up good points, but do it in the most boring, sleep-inducing manner possible.

...

Crystal Woman
"I'm sorry, what did you say about my single issue?" Yang

...

Tim Ryan/Hickenlooper

The best in an interview list is pretty similar, too (Though Warren gets bumped up to second in interviews). Harris interviews extremely well, her only problem is she's not particularly good at stump speeches. She has to be talking to someone directly for her charisma to really shine.
 
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Zelas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,808
I was not being disingenuous. I just stated a fact. And that fact doesn't disagree with what you're saying either.

People care about their doctors and health care centers. When people speak of private insurance, that is how they are judged by. The media is trying their hardest to conflate private insurance with the former. It's just a dumb argument. They're acting like the boss can't change your private insurance and they're also acting like Medicare will not allow you to go to your preferred doctor and health care center.

I would imagine they're going to bring up the "muh jobs" argument soon. Though, it's already factored into the costs to help employees transition away from the job. As is the way to bring everyone into it. It starts by lowering the age and including kids year one. It gradually brings everyone into the plan within 2-4 years (depending on whether you go with Rashida Tlaib's plan or Bernie's plan).
You’re not stating facts. You’re stating what you want to believe. Bernie saying he wants to eliminate private insurance means exactly that. Folks saying they want to keep their existing coverage means they want their existing plans not their doctors. The question has been framed the same way for years.
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
971
You’re not stating facts. You’re stating what you want to believe. Bernie saying he wants to eliminate private insurance means exactly that. Folks saying they want to keep their existing coverage means they want their existing plans not their doctors. The question has been framed the same way for years.
How are you not getting it? Bernie's policy proposal does not eliminate private insurance. If it did, us taxpayers would have to fund someone's cosmetic surgery. That's a fact. Never did I say that private insurance would be competing with the government Medicare. It would purely be supplemental. In that sense yes, you can pretty much say it's being eliminated. It's not in truth, but you can pretty much say it is.

Folks saying they want to keep their existing coverage is only a thing because the media frames it the way you just did.

What does it mean to like your coverage? It means that you like your doctor, your health care center, whether ER is close by, etc... Jesus christ you're stubborn. I know this is how it is first hand because my family has had their private insurance changed multiple times. Each time meant we needed a different doctor, we had to change where we can access the ER without extra fees, where we have to visit that doctor (now it's a lot farther away), etc... When it comes to dental I've had to go to almost a dozen different dentists when I was growing up because of private insurance.

Explain why you like your private insurance. Is it not because of where you go to see a doctor, where you go for ER, or where you go to dentist or eye specialist? Why do you think people can't have their private insurance changed on a whim by their employer? Literally the private insurance industry as we know it does not give you choice a lot of times. That's a lie that needs to be called out.
 
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Moppeh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,238
I vastly prefer Warren and Sanders over the rest of the candidates but I think a Harris/Buttigieg ticket could kick a ton of ass. They aren't as left as I'd prefer but I think they could still do a ton of good and I really love the matchups of Harris vs Trump and Buttigieg vs Pence.
 

max.rem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,015
U.S.
Indiana vs Indiana and homophobe vs first
openly gay candidate.

I like Buttigieg a fair bit but part of me wouls prefer him as VP over prez just for the showdown.
I'm not sure i'd find the same joy of putting an gay man on stage with Pence so the media can act like a homophobe and a gay man are equals and then lose their shit when someone calls said homophobe a homophobe.
 

BrutalInsane

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,478
yeaaaaaaahhhhhh after watching the debate, i'm on the harris train now. she was fuckin fire af.
That exchange with Biden seemed like the end of the ‘old guard’, meaning politicians that I grew up with over the last 30 years or so. We definitely sat up and took notice as it was taking place.

I’d support either her or Warren, followed by Pete.
 

The Mad Mango

Member
Oct 27, 2017
759
I vastly prefer Warren and Sanders over the rest of the candidates but I think a Harris/Buttigieg ticket could kick a ton of ass. They aren't as left as I'd prefer but I think they could still do a ton of good and I really love the matchups of Harris vs Trump and Buttigieg vs Pence.
Harris/Buttigieg would be a great ticket.
 

floridaguy954

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,341
Bernie is right about health care
Agreed.
Seriously. Biden needs to fuck off.
Bernie/Kamala
Kamala/Bernie

either way lets get this ticket
I support this ticket or Bernie/Warren.
Kamala/Castro and go full young charisma.
I agree with any of these combos, you can even include Warren in there in some capacity (although I still prefer her as president overall).