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2020 Presidential Democratic Primary Debates 1+2 |OT| June 26-27, 2019
- Thread starter Deleted member 6223
- Start date
There's zero reason to make Sanders a VP. Either he's the presidential candidate or stays in the Senate. Same goes for Warren.
Castro had a nice debate performance but he's not great, I wouldn't be so fast to champion him just based on that.
Biden's bipartisan schtick would've been super effective in 2016.
My only wish, is that if Warren doesn't make it to the ticket, that she becomes the Leader in the Senate.
I was not being disingenuous. I just stated a fact. And that fact doesn't disagree with what you're saying either.
People care about their doctors and health care centers. When people speak of private insurance, that is how they are judged by. The media is trying their hardest to conflate private insurance with the former. It's just a dumb argument. They're acting like the boss can't change your private insurance and they're also acting like Medicare will not allow you to go to your preferred doctor and health care center.
I would imagine they're going to bring up the "muh jobs" argument soon. Though, it's already factored into the costs to help employees transition away from the job. As is the way to bring everyone into it. It starts by lowering the age and including kids year one. It gradually brings everyone into the plan within 2-4 years (depending on whether you go with Rashida Tlaib's plan or Bernie's plan).
Thoughts after only watching Day 2 (I'll watch 1 for Warren later).
Sanders: Sanders just ... isn't a very good Sanders. Like, a lot of what he's saying rings true. He has good points. But they're the same points, he's not very good at packaging them, and they're his responses to things like "what will you do if abortion is illegal?" He seems to respond to every question incredulous that anyone would dare ask him. Being a one note candidate sends the impression that you belong in Congress, not the White House. His can give a "yeah, yeah, I'm pro choice. We'll have a pro choice administration. Who do you think I am?" type response makes it sound like he doesn't give anything beyond economic issues much thought. Even if he's "right" about them.
Pete: Seemed to be the second best performance of the night, but I'm not sure about the police shooting exchange. I don't get the sense that his heart is in the wrong place and he's actively attempting to obfuscate, but he seems to think that it's not appropriate for him to comment on something with an ongoing investigation. And he gave a prebaked "no comment at this time" type response that really isn't satisfying to here. Idk, maybe I'm a fool and I'm giving him too much credit. I don't expect the viewerbase to really recognize it as a flub. If it were just him and Biden, maybe he would have a road to the presidency.
Biden: His responses are all bullshit, but I can see a portion of the viewers feeling reassured by his "we can go back to a time that never existed" and "remember Obama? You liked Obama, right?" nonsense and Grandpa-is-telling-it-like-it-is manner of speaking. But later in the debate Kamala and Bennet seemed to do some real damage that wouldn't go unnoticed by people. Hopefully. Then again, people are idiots.
Kamala: She came out on top. I'd also prefer her over the other candidates tonight.
Sanders: Sanders just ... isn't a very good Sanders. Like, a lot of what he's saying rings true. He has good points. But they're the same points, he's not very good at packaging them, and they're his responses to things like "what will you do if abortion is illegal?" He seems to respond to every question incredulous that anyone would dare ask him. Being a one note candidate sends the impression that you belong in Congress, not the White House. His can give a "yeah, yeah, I'm pro choice. We'll have a pro choice administration. Who do you think I am?" type response makes it sound like he doesn't give anything beyond economic issues much thought. Even if he's "right" about them.
Pete: Seemed to be the second best performance of the night, but I'm not sure about the police shooting exchange. I don't get the sense that his heart is in the wrong place and he's actively attempting to obfuscate, but he seems to think that it's not appropriate for him to comment on something with an ongoing investigation. And he gave a prebaked "no comment at this time" type response that really isn't satisfying to here. Idk, maybe I'm a fool and I'm giving him too much credit. I don't expect the viewerbase to really recognize it as a flub. If it were just him and Biden, maybe he would have a road to the presidency.
Biden: His responses are all bullshit, but I can see a portion of the viewers feeling reassured by his "we can go back to a time that never existed" and "remember Obama? You liked Obama, right?" nonsense and Grandpa-is-telling-it-like-it-is manner of speaking. But later in the debate Kamala and Bennet seemed to do some real damage that wouldn't go unnoticed by people. Hopefully. Then again, people are idiots.
Kamala: She came out on top. I'd also prefer her over the other candidates tonight.
Biden was alright. But his best moment was his retort to Harris that he was a public defender, not a prosecutor. KILLED her there ... she's def vulnerable there and should continue to be exploited
Hehehe, Sanders really comes off like a mad scientist being interrupted from his insane machinations to answer stupid human questions.
There's at least one clip of him raising his hand and talking but you don't hear him at all.
I would say it's true that they cut his mic, as it never cut out on him when they did give him a chance to speak. But whatever they did to limit him did not limit others, especially those who should have been limited, like Williamson.
And Gillebrand. I think even one time she interjected with "It's my turn now".
The format was awful, though. And one of the moderators seemed to be incensed anyone actually attempted to answer a question.
I love Bernie but he really needs to mix it up once in a while. Even though he's right on most things his broken record optics will work against him long term.
I normally find the "Kamala's a COP!" Rhetoric extremely stupid. But this was funny.
He's been saying the same shit for years. It does kinda get old but it doesn't matter since he's on point. The fact that there's been such a shift from 2016 to today policy-wise is a testament to his credibility and determination.
I think he thrives more in a smaller compact debate with more speech time, not this clusterfuck.
Yea agreed. He's still #1 for me based on policy alone, he just didn't make a great case for himself last night.
Luckily he'll be around when the stage gets a bit smaller where he'll do much better.
I can't take anyone who says Harris was not the clear winner of Yesterday's debate seriously
She ran circles around everyone. It wasn't even close.
She ran circles around everyone. It wasn't even close.
To me Sanders is looking like his time has passed. I thought he could be good for another go at this. But other posters were right. He is better at the background now driving the party on the right (you get what I mean) path. But he sounds like a parrot always saying the same things. Time after time. This doesn't have any impact anymore, it sounds boring and a one-line trick. Because almost all other candidates have taken his points.
Warren is good on substance but she has no chance in fighting with Trump and she is not a good speaker or inspirational. She cannot effectively attack him. She has no teeth.
Biden must stop now. If he continues then I fear that the polls stay the same and he gets nominated. He should have the self-knowledge that he cannot beat Trump. He has no plus points in my eyes. And he is sabotaging the Democrats atm.
Castro had a great night. But I think he wouldn't get chosen by the public. He seems to be a little lightweight.
Harris had a great night. And would destroy Trump in debates. So this could be a big plus point. But to forge her in the fire she should be tested as soon as possible about her record. And see how this will have an impact on voters. This should be crucial to find out as soon as possible. She also does come over a little like a lawyer. She has to finetune that a bit more. But she has promise.
Pete Buttigieg is a dark horse. He is the candidate that has the most promise to me. He is someone that can join the left and right of the party without much damage. But he needs to put out the fire at his place very quickly. For the rest I see many plus points. He is smart, he says the right stuff, he looks to be in command and already looks presidential. Trump would also have very little to attack him on.
Warren is good on substance but she has no chance in fighting with Trump and she is not a good speaker or inspirational. She cannot effectively attack him. She has no teeth.
Biden must stop now. If he continues then I fear that the polls stay the same and he gets nominated. He should have the self-knowledge that he cannot beat Trump. He has no plus points in my eyes. And he is sabotaging the Democrats atm.
Castro had a great night. But I think he wouldn't get chosen by the public. He seems to be a little lightweight.
Harris had a great night. And would destroy Trump in debates. So this could be a big plus point. But to forge her in the fire she should be tested as soon as possible about her record. And see how this will have an impact on voters. This should be crucial to find out as soon as possible. She also does come over a little like a lawyer. She has to finetune that a bit more. But she has promise.
Pete Buttigieg is a dark horse. He is the candidate that has the most promise to me. He is someone that can join the left and right of the party without much damage. But he needs to put out the fire at his place very quickly. For the rest I see many plus points. He is smart, he says the right stuff, he looks to be in command and already looks presidential. Trump would also have very little to attack him on.
Yeah, I don't see why people think Warren isn't an effective speaker/communicator or couldn't hold her own with Trump. I think it's just vestiges of the Pocahontas episode. If you've seen her recently, you'd see she is pretty damn good.
I think a ticket with Warren/Harris would be very strong, and a resounding fuck you to chauvinist establishment types.
I think a ticket with Warren/Harris would be very strong, and a resounding fuck you to chauvinist establishment types.
Why is there an audience for debates? And why are they allowed to cheer? This isn't a sports event.
I feel as though people see that she's an older bookish sort of woman and just assume she must be boring or uncharismatic like they thought Hillary was. They have a mental image that doesn't line up with reality, and yet they defend it anyway. When people actually get to speak to her and hear her, she engages audiences and connects easily.
He is someone that can join the moderate left with the moderate right by throwing the far left under the bus and calling them SJWs.
I think besides being window decorations, the live audience has a veracity function (e.g. where some may accuse the debate holders of inappropriately editing or doctoring the video footage, etc etc)
Chuck Toddler you're talking about.
"Narrow down the biggest problem in America with one word."
FUCK OFF CHUCK
The issue with Bernie for me, ignoring his gun control issues, is that he pushes everything to economic inequality, even questions about systemic racism. At least during the debate, that's what he did. It's very frustrating.
They theoretically shouldn't cheer, and are instructed not to.
And.....it's to get donations/contact info.
I don't think so. He is smarter than that I think. But isn't that a good thing that he can join the moderate left and moderate right? That has to be most of the party right?
Yang and Bernie work better I think, when given more time to answer and explain their answers. I"m sure Bernie will do well on the next debates. Yang might do better if he returns.
Disconnected mike or not, the bias against yang was showing. I think he can hold on to the way he was treated to lose relatively little popularity with his base.
Here's my take on Day 2:
Firstly, before I get to the grades, I just wanna say that this current debate structure sucks. Setting up stage & mic presence based on current polling ranks is asinine, as it makes it difficult for the lower percentage candidates to be able to make their cases to the public. Give them all equal time to speak, or don't bother. And I know that would just make this debate run longer, but tough shit; there are 20 candidates.
Anyways, here's my rankings from worst to best. Surprisingly, it was a pretty solid night for most of the candidates. Only a couple people had really bad nights:
Biden - Man. MAN. I've never seen a candidate be so unprepared, so far out of their element before in a debate. Even for me, someone who went into this expecting Biden to get his ass kicked, it was much, much worse than I anticipated. Harris SHMACKED Biden, just like I knew she would. But Biden also got ate up by Swalwell without Biden even having to say anything. And every time he was challenged, he couldn't handle it. Especially when Harris went at him, he got really defensive then. This goes to show that he's the worst candidate in this field, as he has the most baggage that could be easily used against him. As the undisputed frontrunner, he had the most to lose. And he lost it. Drop out now. (F)
Williamson - Ay, who's auntie is this? Seriously, someone get this lady out of here. I didn't know who she was before this debate, and she didn't make much of a case to make herself memorable. Especially her last 45 second statement. "I'm gonna use LOVE for political purposes!" Man, get her nutritionist blogger looking ass outta here. (F)
Yang - Could've been the Julian Castro of the night. Instead, any chance he had to speak was wasted. He lack energy. Didn't even try to insert himself in any of the discussion when the moderators were more lenient. A poor performance from someone on the fringes who could've really used a bump from this. (D-)
Hickenlooper - The most memorable thing about his performance is that he made clear that he's the anti-socialism candidate. Which, in a race with a resurgent Sanders in it, is not an issue you want to be on the wrong side of this time around. (D-)
Gillibrand - *Delaney intensifies*
No seriously, she did a decent job tonight, but she just couldn't get ahead of the moderators. (C-)
Bennet - For a guy who was super late to the party, he did alright. Not a super memorable performance, but when he spoke, he was clear & articulate. Probably won't move the needle, though. (C)
Sanders - If I'm being honest, this was an underwhelming performance from him. When he spoke, he did a good job of making his stances clear. But as one of the frontrunners, he didn't take command of the debate as everyone expected him to. Solid night, but we expected more from the runner up to the 2016 primaries. (C)
Swalwell - He did pretty good. Really made the case that he represents the generation that will have to deal with the upcoming issues. Good shots at the frontrunners candidates on certain topics. (B-)
Buttigieg - Not bad, honestly. I think what stood out the most to me is that he didn't get defensive on the questions about race. In fact, he took ownership and promised to do better. Solid performance. (B)
Harris - Absolutely fantastic performance. Spoke with power & command. Was on the right side of every issue, and was articulate & convincing when asked to explain her stances. Plus, she knows how to go after the red meat, as she showed when she SHMACKED Biden. Also was quick on her feet with the "food on the table" quote. When she went at Biden, the pop was so big that she might as well have come out to The Rock's theme song. Not only the best performance of the night, but the best performance in these debates overall. She had the most to gain out of these candidates and she did the damn thang. This is the candidate Trump should be worried about the most. (A+)
Firstly, before I get to the grades, I just wanna say that this current debate structure sucks. Setting up stage & mic presence based on current polling ranks is asinine, as it makes it difficult for the lower percentage candidates to be able to make their cases to the public. Give them all equal time to speak, or don't bother. And I know that would just make this debate run longer, but tough shit; there are 20 candidates.
Anyways, here's my rankings from worst to best. Surprisingly, it was a pretty solid night for most of the candidates. Only a couple people had really bad nights:
Biden - Man. MAN. I've never seen a candidate be so unprepared, so far out of their element before in a debate. Even for me, someone who went into this expecting Biden to get his ass kicked, it was much, much worse than I anticipated. Harris SHMACKED Biden, just like I knew she would. But Biden also got ate up by Swalwell without Biden even having to say anything. And every time he was challenged, he couldn't handle it. Especially when Harris went at him, he got really defensive then. This goes to show that he's the worst candidate in this field, as he has the most baggage that could be easily used against him. As the undisputed frontrunner, he had the most to lose. And he lost it. Drop out now. (F)
Williamson - Ay, who's auntie is this? Seriously, someone get this lady out of here. I didn't know who she was before this debate, and she didn't make much of a case to make herself memorable. Especially her last 45 second statement. "I'm gonna use LOVE for political purposes!" Man, get her nutritionist blogger looking ass outta here. (F)
Yang - Could've been the Julian Castro of the night. Instead, any chance he had to speak was wasted. He lack energy. Didn't even try to insert himself in any of the discussion when the moderators were more lenient. A poor performance from someone on the fringes who could've really used a bump from this. (D-)
Hickenlooper - The most memorable thing about his performance is that he made clear that he's the anti-socialism candidate. Which, in a race with a resurgent Sanders in it, is not an issue you want to be on the wrong side of this time around. (D-)
Gillibrand - *Delaney intensifies*
No seriously, she did a decent job tonight, but she just couldn't get ahead of the moderators. (C-)
Bennet - For a guy who was super late to the party, he did alright. Not a super memorable performance, but when he spoke, he was clear & articulate. Probably won't move the needle, though. (C)
Sanders - If I'm being honest, this was an underwhelming performance from him. When he spoke, he did a good job of making his stances clear. But as one of the frontrunners, he didn't take command of the debate as everyone expected him to. Solid night, but we expected more from the runner up to the 2016 primaries. (C)
Swalwell - He did pretty good. Really made the case that he represents the generation that will have to deal with the upcoming issues. Good shots at the frontrunners candidates on certain topics. (B-)
Buttigieg - Not bad, honestly. I think what stood out the most to me is that he didn't get defensive on the questions about race. In fact, he took ownership and promised to do better. Solid performance. (B)
Harris - Absolutely fantastic performance. Spoke with power & command. Was on the right side of every issue, and was articulate & convincing when asked to explain her stances. Plus, she knows how to go after the red meat, as she showed when she SHMACKED Biden. Also was quick on her feet with the "food on the table" quote. When she went at Biden, the pop was so big that she might as well have come out to The Rock's theme song. Not only the best performance of the night, but the best performance in these debates overall. She had the most to gain out of these candidates and she did the damn thang. This is the candidate Trump should be worried about the most. (A+)
I don't think it's going to work. He's an obscure candidate and how he responded to the mic turn off was oddly worded. How he told his side was like he was shocked that there were tv crew who made decisions like that during a broadcast. Almost comes off as a "Do you know who I am?" spiel.
Holly shit! The way they cut Bernies answer. I know people hate it when he claims the game is rigged against him but it would be great if they stopped providing him with proof.
I said his base, and I was referring to the laughable amount of time he was given during the debate. That, more than the mike claim is what makes it look like there's media bias against him.
As a fan of Yang he got a solid F, sure a lot of it has to do with his lack of experience at such an event, and I do find it a bit suspicious how little time he got but the truth is this was his one chance and he blew it.
I"m still hoping he returns and does better next time, He'll never be the nominee but some of his Ideas I feel NEED to be exposed to the mainstream.
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While I generally am a fan of Noah and Colbert especially, I thought they both were quite reductive in their reactions, which to be fair were aired live just after the debates had ended, so they didn't have much time to think things through. Makes for some funny TV if you didn't watch the debates I guess.
The Daily Show regularly gives Bernie props, there is no "rigging" here.
Then I agree with you.
Proof....of a comedy show? Did you see what they did to Yang, lol?
My reaction:
The debate format really sucked. Candidates did not have time for substantive answers because there were too many, even with 10 on-stage. My favorite moment, not gonna lie, was when Harris tore into Joe Biden on race, and Biden's defense for his opposition to busing was that it was a state's rights issue. If you vote for Biden you are complicit at this point.
Harris had the best night. I don't trust her on universal health care still and she continues to flub there, but if forced I would vote for her in the general despite her record. I have some concerns about how Trump would attack her in the GE. She has baggage that might hurt her with progressives, and with independents. Harris would savage Trump in a debate but I don't think that's going to matter? Can she beat Trump, is the concern for Kamala Harris.
Sanders did ok. Loved his anti-war message, very important to push that in a debate which includes misguided-ass Biden and Buttigieg. Sanders still struggles to stay on-message with social issues. On the other hand, when it comes to economic issues, he's dominant.
Biden got crushed. There's a reason this dude doesn't want to be seen very much. He fucking sucks, his politics have always been bad, and he is dangerous naive about bipartisanship in today's political climate.
Buttigieg is a smarter, younger Biden. His politics, where they are discernable, are also shit. He's polling within the margin of error with black voters and refusing to fire his police chief isn't not helping matters. Not a good candidate, not someone I would vote for.
Bennet/Swalwell/Gillibrand all did moderately ok? When you're an also-ran, though, you should be pushing your pet issue and raising visibility for it. Not sure any of them were effective with that, Gillibrand maybe on women's rights?
Hickenlooper was awful. He's selling something that the 2020 Democratic base isn't buying.
Marianne was fun, at least. That puts her ahead of most of last night's debaters.
Yang missed his chance to promote his core issue, and was more invisible than the also-ran Congressmen. Terrible.
The debate format really sucked. Candidates did not have time for substantive answers because there were too many, even with 10 on-stage. My favorite moment, not gonna lie, was when Harris tore into Joe Biden on race, and Biden's defense for his opposition to busing was that it was a state's rights issue. If you vote for Biden you are complicit at this point.
Harris had the best night. I don't trust her on universal health care still and she continues to flub there, but if forced I would vote for her in the general despite her record. I have some concerns about how Trump would attack her in the GE. She has baggage that might hurt her with progressives, and with independents. Harris would savage Trump in a debate but I don't think that's going to matter? Can she beat Trump, is the concern for Kamala Harris.
Sanders did ok. Loved his anti-war message, very important to push that in a debate which includes misguided-ass Biden and Buttigieg. Sanders still struggles to stay on-message with social issues. On the other hand, when it comes to economic issues, he's dominant.
Biden got crushed. There's a reason this dude doesn't want to be seen very much. He fucking sucks, his politics have always been bad, and he is dangerous naive about bipartisanship in today's political climate.
Buttigieg is a smarter, younger Biden. His politics, where they are discernable, are also shit. He's polling within the margin of error with black voters and refusing to fire his police chief isn't not helping matters. Not a good candidate, not someone I would vote for.
Bennet/Swalwell/Gillibrand all did moderately ok? When you're an also-ran, though, you should be pushing your pet issue and raising visibility for it. Not sure any of them were effective with that, Gillibrand maybe on women's rights?
Hickenlooper was awful. He's selling something that the 2020 Democratic base isn't buying.
Marianne was fun, at least. That puts her ahead of most of last night's debaters.
Yang missed his chance to promote his core issue, and was more invisible than the also-ran Congressmen. Terrible.
I figured out who Williamson reminded me of every time she spoke: It's Fenster (Benicio Del Toro) from The Usual Suspects
I can't tell if this is serious or trolling, but I really hope it is trolling.
Yang got destroyed at the debate criticism was fair. Bernies was a good answer made to look bad by strategically cutting it short.
Ugh, I feel like neverbernies are way more close minded than bernie or bust people last year.
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Hah, so glad someone else is making the same joke I am. I take it a bit further though, because it's even rarer that an old white politician is killed by a black, female cop.
Also, Marianne is the weeboo candidate.