2020 Presidential Democratic Primary Debates 3&4 |OT| July 30-31, 2019

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jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,488
So we going to handwave Kamala ignoring pleas from victims of clergy abuse? Or is it that we can't trust the words of said victims because it appears on the Intercept, deemed not a good enough source?

https://theintercept.com/2019/06/09/kamala-harris-san-francisco-catholic-church-child-abuse/
Liberals here are going to dismiss it because its from the Intercept. When they do just provide them with every other source backing the same stories.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
7,507
No I didn't miss it. I just continue telling you and others that it literally doesn't matter.

Again do we now need to stop calling Trump a racist because Russia is exploiting that as well? Is the real issue Russia stoking the fires about Trump's racism or is it Trump's racism that requires addressing. And of the two, which is more dangerous to our country? Still have yet to hear any of you address this.
Why aren't you concerned about Russia's interference? Would you care if we had Russian trolls and bots here or other platforms?

I've gone over, in detail, what separates the message from Russian propaganda and you know it. Yet you continue to act as though we don't agree on this for ???

They're both dangerous to America, it's not multiple choice - which I've said in the past. The two feed each other, but you'd have me ignore one while focusing on the other.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,456
Sweden
the best way to ensure that tulsi (who Is possibly favoured by russia) doesn't benefit too much from her very much accurate and effective attack on kamala is to repeat the substance of what tulsi was saying about kamala as often as you can without saying it came from tulsi, so as to disassociate this accurate criticism of kamala from tulsi as much as possible
 

anamika

Member
May 18, 2018
585
So we going to handwave Kamala ignoring pleas from victims of clergy abuse? Or is it that we can't trust the words of said victims because it appears on the Intercept, deemed not a good enough source?

https://theintercept.com/2019/06/09/kamala-harris-san-francisco-catholic-church-child-abuse/
That's just terrible. She protected pedophile priests who abused children. Ugh. How did she even become a viable candidate for president with all this?
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,488
Why aren't you concerned about Russia's interference? Would you care if we had Russian trolls and bots here or other platforms?

I've gone over, in detail, what separates the message from Russian propaganda and you know it. Yet you continue to act as though we don't agree on this for ???

They're both dangerous to America, it's not multiple choice - which I've said in the past. The two feed each other, but you'd have me ignore one while focusing on the other.
Why aren't you concerned about the actual topic at hand that were discussing rather than trying to make it into a conspiracy theory?

No youve yet to address what the difference is between holding up the discussion on the actual topic (IE Harris and her ignominious career) at hand. Youve tried to diminish that criticism by suggesting she also did some good things while plainly ignoring all the bad (and acting like Ive ever said she never did anything good)

No I'd have you focus on the one thats actually under discussion but continues to get distorted to an entirely separate narrative. You can think both are bad, it is indeed not a one or the other type of issue here. But this discussion has been railroaded into something it never actually was about by liberals deflecting the issue into conspiracy laden conjecture and taking up everyone's time discussing it rather than continuing to focus on what the central issue was.

the best way to ensure that tulsi (who Is possibly favoured by russia) doesn't benefit too much from her very much accurate and effective attack on kamala is to repeat the substance of what tulsi was saying about kamala as often as you can without saying it came from tulsi, so as to disassociate this accurate criticism of kamala from tulsi as much as possible
Tulsi is a no one tho and is gone next round of debates. Its such a non issue in its entirety which is why its frustrating watching members here try to use it as a deflection of Harris.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,423
Brooklyn, NY
No. Not at all.

What I'm doing is combating this idea that there are more progressive prosecutors than Harris out there thriving and having no trouble at all. Regarding Krasner, that's simply not true. And I say this as someone who admires and respects Krasner a great deal, but he's only the DA of Philly. Harris was a DA, then AG of the 7th largest economy in world, and yet and still she managed do that while rolling out progressive policies that served as a road map for prosecutors like Krasner who's now getting his ass kicked.

To put it simply: respect her damn hustle.
do you have any citation to support the bolded? I don't see how Krasner's record bears any resemblance to Harris' at all.
 

kradical

Member
Oct 25, 2017
992
Always hilarious to see Americans outraged at the possibility of foreign interference in their elections.
 

Heromanz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,202
No. Not at all.

What I'm doing is combating this idea that there are more progressive prosecutors than Harris out there thriving and having no trouble at all. Regarding Krasner, that's simply not true. And I say this as someone who admires and respects Krasner a great deal, but he's only the DA of Philly. Harris was a DA, then AG of the 7th largest economy in world, and yet and still she managed do that while rolling out progressive policies that served as a road map for prosecutors like Krasner who's now getting his ass kicked.

To put it simply: respect her damn hustle.
While I respect the hustle of a cop? I respect all those poor people and black people and other people less fortunate that she helped put away for years on years
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
7,507
Why aren't you concerned about the actual topic at hand that were discussing rather than trying to make it into a conspiracy theory?
I did. Repeatedly. Which you've ignored.

No youve yet to address what the difference is between holding up the discussion on the actual topic (IE Harris and her ignominious career) at hand. Youve tried to diminish that criticism by suggesting she also did some good things while plainly ignoring all the bad (and acting like Ive ever said she never did anything good)
I've made that very clear, ignoring that won't make it any less true. I've supported the criticism level at Kamala, not the source or the distributor exploiting this mess to make sure Trump gets a second term. Acknowledging that Kamala's career isn't being cartoonishly evil as a DA isn't diminishing anything, it's putting her candidacy into proper perspective. I don't see you complaining when others do this with Tulsi, who isn't completely evil either.

No I'd have you focus on the one thats actually under discussion but continues to get distorted to an entirely separate narrative. You can think both are bad, it is indeed not a one or the other type of issue here.
The mistake you're making is that we can't have this conversation on multiple things simultaneously relevant to the subject. The reason the Russia aspect is getting more steam is because I agree with you on the other part.

But this discussion has been railroaded into something it never actually was about by liberals deflecting the issue into conspiracy laden conjecture and taking up everyone's time discussing it rather than continuing to focus on what the central issue was.
This issue has many elements to it, and you'd have us ignore vital parts that destabilise our democracy. It's a conspiracy theory that RT is posting about this? Google it, this isn't hard to find.

Always hilarious to see Americans outraged at the possibility of foreign interference in their elections.
No government should do that. Have you seen the consequences Trump's done with the world?

There's a lot of Pepe Silvia stuff going on here.
Feel free to explain how were wrong then.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
7,507
I’m sure that they do. They also see the consequences of what Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, etc. have one as well.

Turns out imperialism is bad
You do know liberals hate what the Bushes and Reagan and Trump did, right? Obama and Clinton supporters aren't exactly all happy about that, either.

Imperialism's bad, so why support it? It's not like Trump hasn't been trying to export it like the others. He's just failed to get the match lit. We're lucky he didn't start a war with North Korea over twitter, but he did his best effort. Would people be laughing then had he managed that? How about Venezuela and Iran? Are they laughing about the crisis the immigrants are suffering in the US are going through, too?
 

ckareset

Member
Feb 2, 2018
3,807
Harris used some irrelevant busing point to kick off her claim to presidential fame and lowkey was the reason Tulsi and Kristen tried to do the same thing. Focusing on others instead of themselves. I mean can anyone actually name Tulsi positions in criminal justice? No.

The only difference is that Biden swatted Kristen away for his only good moment in two debates after failing to swipe away at Harris last time . But Harris failed to swipe away Tulsi.

Stop talking about the Russians.

If Harris is a serious candidate, she was going to have to talk about her DA past anyways. It's literally her biggest barrier. And always was.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,562
For the record, yes I have bookmarked nearly every post from The Usual Suspects from the past few pages just in case any of them ever wanna talk about “Bernie Bro Conspiracies” after this shit.
 

kradical

Member
Oct 25, 2017
992
No government should do that. Have you seen the consequences Trump's done with the world?
If I was American I would probably focus more on the influence of fossil fuel companies, banks, pharmaceutical companies and the obscene amount of money in general involved in American elections than hypocritically whine about something America has been doing exponentially more than any other country for almost a century. These are things that had a far greater impact on the 2016 result than some shitty memes on facebook and are much easier to combat, if only there was any will from either side to do so.
 
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alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
244
Why aren't you concerned about Russia's interference? Would you care if we had Russian trolls and bots here or other platforms?

I've gone over, in detail, what separates the message from Russian propaganda and you know it. Yet you continue to act as though we don't agree on this for ???

They're both dangerous to America, it's not multiple choice - which I've said in the past. The two feed each other, but you'd have me ignore one while focusing on the other.
Is the idea here that if information or a critique may have come from a foreign/hostile source that people shouldn't discuss the critique or information?
 

y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,631
The same ones crying "Russian bots!" are the same ones that would write off any possible wrong doings against the Sanders campaign and call them conspiracy theorist. My previous post was right on the money.

Hydra bots won.
 

Melkr_

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,953
Just so were following the logic, and I haven't seen any of the "Tulsi is a Russian puppet" supporters address it, are we now also not allowed to criticize the GoP or Trump because Russia is using bots to attack them as well?

Who is doing this?
The imaginary leftist that resides in their mind. Always fighting against it.


Can't wait for Tulsi going after Warren's Republican past!
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,488

Stoiracsi

Member
May 9, 2018
9
You're completing ignoring Russia and Tulsi's parts in all this, which is what I had an issue with - not attacking Kamala. Which was something I agree with. Can you attack Kamala legitimately without relying on sources that support Russia and don't subvert democracy? This was never attacking Kamala for her flaws.



After all this your biggest beef is with Democrats, not the party who was supported by Russia and are putting kids in concentrations camps as we speak? Yes, it would. However, the choice is not simply between a pacifist and a war monger in the Democratic party. That is, unless Tulsi wins the nomination.



We're supposed to be fighting fascists, not letting them get elected. "Accessories," really? The Democrats were victims of the subversions of democracy in '16. Why are you completely ignoring the GOP in this equation, as though Russia's running the Democrats and not the opposite.



This is trending on RT, Russia's propaganda network.



Nope, that wasn't the argument. How did you get that conclusion? I've been very blatant with where I stand in all this. It's disingenuous to warp my argument into the complete opposite of wha I was saying.



Read what I actually wrote, rather than posting dishonest framing to look like this is a conspiracy theory. I've been very, very clear about all this, with my agreeing with Tulsi's attack on Kamala.

Your post does make me wonder: where's the concern about Tulsi's attack being signal boosted by Russia? Are you ok with that? It seems beneath you're notice. And why are you defending Tulsi so casually? Not that her complaint wasn't legitimate, you don't seem concerned about her history or why she's a controversial candidate in this primary.
It's propaganda to tweet about something that happened live on CNN?
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,946
Lol


I keep trying to ask this, especially as it pertains to the republican party, but haven't gotten any answers on it depsite asking literallt 4 or 5 times.
Well:
- if the information was hacked or otherwise stolen, or
- It's simply untrue.

You of course have to be wary of *which* information is being leaked and why. There is a clear strategy to sow discord
 

Jade1962

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,179
Listen I'm totally not on board with cops unjusticely killing unarmed African Americans but why aren't more people talking about whether it's right for Kapernick to kneel during the national anthem.
 

brainchild

GameXplain
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
7,123
Minnesota
For the record, yes I have bookmarked nearly every post from The Usual Suspects from the past few pages just in case any of them ever wanna talk about “Bernie Bro Conspiracies” after this shit.
What's amusing to me is that they're denying it's a conspiracy theory when that's what it is by definition.




A conspiracy theory isn't inherently wrong, and they could in fact be right (though I'm more inclined to believe that Tulsi was just being opportunistic like everyone else at the debates, as politicians tend to do, and isn't an actual Russian agent or contractual accomplice) so I'm not sure why they don't just accept what they're doing.
 

Exellus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,092
"This small group of people annoyed me once, so I hate everyone that has anything to do with them."

- Every side of every argument
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,488
Well:
- if the information was hacked or otherwise stolen, or
- It's simply untrue.

You of course have to be wary of *which* information is being leaked and why. There is a clear strategy to sow discord
And the attack wasnt untrue or stolen and many of us here AND in the american media have been saying it for months now. So neither is relevant
 
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Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,946
And the attack wasnt untrue or stolen and many of us here AND in the american media have been saying it for months now. So neither is relevant
Okay, you asked for a reply. Then claim it's irrelevant.

Yes, *this* round of attacks are accurate.

But they won't always be, and it's targeted the way it is for a reason.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,488
Okay, you asked for a reply. Then claim it's irrelevant.

Yes, *this* round of attacks are accurate.

But they won't always be, and it's targeted the way it is for a reason.
I asked for a reply as it pertains to this topic and as you just stated the answer provided didnt have anything to do with the topic.
 

alexiswrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
244
Okay, you asked for a reply. Then claim it's irrelevant.

Yes, *this* round of attacks are accurate.

But they won't always be, and it's targeted the way it is for a reason.
What do you mean by this? Are you seriously saying that "Now that Tulsi (and maybe the Russian government by proxy) is using/signal-boosting an existing critique, we shouldn't talk about it or shouldn't take it seriously, because that would be playing into the Russians' hands"? How does this even play into their hands? I'd understand that if people here were widely congratulating or uplifting Tulsi, or if she was a serious candidate, but that's not the world we live in.
 

kaylaz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
704
Uh youre being an incredible bad actor in here. Like you basically came in and took the reins on it.


No I didn't miss it. I just continue telling you and others that it literally doesn't matter.

Again do we now need to stop calling Trump a racist because Russia is exploiting that as well? Is the real issue Russia stoking the fires about Trump's racism or is it Trump's racism that requires addressing. And of the two, which is more dangerous to our country? Still have yet to hear any of you address this.

Also gaslighting Tulsi as more harmful than Harris who has made a career out of ruining innocent people's lives sure is something.

Lastly Idk why you people keep trying to post about Tulsi as if anyone is championing her as a great candidate and person. This is some of the craziest gaslighting Ive ever seen on this website. Like its honestly fucking unsettling.

Um that poster is acting like we’re all supposed to be accountable to him. What the fuck is wrong with these people lol. Also the complaints about propping up tulsi???Uhhhh hello, the debate was watched by millions of people. So the accusations of signal boosting are downright absurd.
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,296
I'm fully with bernie sanders but Tulsi Gabbard is lovely and amazing
Lol.

Yes, her defending the Knights of Columbus, an extremist antigay right wing sect, THIS YEAR is really lovely and amazing.

Watching people go to bat for this turd is absolutely grotesque and a slap in the face to all queer people.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,946
What do you mean by this? Are you seriously saying that "Now that Tulsi (and maybe the Russian government by proxy) is using/signal-boosting an existing critique, we shouldn't talk about it or shouldn't take it seriously, because that would be playing into the Russians' hands"? How does this even play into their hands? I'd understand that if people here were widely congratulating or uplifting Tulsi, or if she was a serious candidate, but that's not the world we live in.
No... Who gives a shit about Tulsi? The Russians don't.

The point is that we should care about Russian influence/disinformation campaigns because there will come a time, in the near future, where such mechanisms will be used to spread either completely false information about the Democratic candidate or to signal-boost something negative during the 2020 campaign. Thus we should care about the mechanism through which this information is being spread.

Guys, it's not about Tulsi/Harris. At all. I don't know what more I can say to make that more clear.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,622
If I was American I would probably focus more on the influence of fossil fuel companies, banks, pharmaceutical companies and the obscene amount of money in general involved in American elections than hypocritically whine about something America has been doing exponentially more than any other country for almost a century. These are things that had a far greater impact on the 2016 result than some shitty memes on facebook and are much easier to combat, if only there was any will from either side to do so.
Yup. Republicans and our own corporate interests are far more scary.
 
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