2020 Presidential Democratic Primary Debates 3&4 |OT| July 30-31, 2019

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phanphare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,911
Seeing more of their tag team is going to be real fun in upcoming debates, especially since people have been trying their best to pit them against each other.
people are going to keep disingenuously suggesting that one of them needs to drop and I'm going to keep loving the fact that two of the fiercest challengers right now are progressives. never thought I'd see this day tbh. I'm not that old but this primary has made me feel old. that the entire primary so far has been framed around a progressive agenda is kind of wild. like healthcare, the line in the sand is M4A and you're either on one side or the other and even if you're against it you're making your case from that framing.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,608
people are going to keep disingenuously suggesting that one of them needs to drop and I'm going to keep loving the fact that two of the fiercest challengers right now are progressives. never thought I'd see this day tbh. I'm not that old but this primary has made me feel old. that the entire primary so far has been framed around a progressive agenda is kind of wild. like healthcare, the line in the sand is M4A and you're either on one side or the other and even if you're against it you're making your case from that framing.
Oh, there's going to be a lot of disingenuousness surrounding Warren and Sanders going forward.

"I'll take 'Rhymes with Prussian Incoherence' for $1000, Alex"
 
Oct 27, 2017
674
So wait, I'm still a little confused on this. Is the idea that's seriously being put forth by a few people here really that the Russians somehow got directly involved with Gabbard's campaign and made her (or got her to?) ask those questions to Harris during a live debate? Twitter bots or whatever are seemingly entirely unrelated to what actually happened during a debate.

That's the conspiracy that they're rolling with? We seriously can't be at that point already, I'd hope.
 

legacyzero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,583
Tulsi keeps capping for Joe and its weirding me out. She trying to move towards a VP spot if hes nominated?

 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,685
Tulsi keeps capping for Joe and its weirding me out. She trying to move towards a VP spot if hes nominated?

Yes that’s what she’s doing

Bridge between Biden and Kamala seems burned. Stacey said no. He seems to be on the “I’m gonnna pick a woman” train and Biden has a sensitive ego so I can see what she’s doing here actually working seeing as how everyone but her seems desperate to dunk on him
 

Chaos Legion

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,652
Yes that’s what she’s doing

Bridge between Biden and Kamala seems burned. Stacey said no. He seems to be on the “I’m gonnna pick a woman” train and Biden has a sensitive ego so I can see what she’s doing here actually working seeing as how everyone but her seems desperate to dunk on him
Gabbard v. Pence will be hilarious.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,039
So wait, I'm still a little confused on this. Is the idea that's seriously being put forth by a few people here really that the Russians somehow got directly involved with Gabbard's campaign and made her (or got her to?) ask those questions to Harris during a live debate? Twitter bots or whatever are seemingly entirely unrelated to what actually happened during a debate.

That's the conspiracy that they're rolling with? We seriously can't be at that point already, I'd hope.
No, that is not the claim. That is a straw man you and others are creating and attributing to other people instead of actually reckoning with what's been happening.

The following things are all true

a) Harris's record as a prosecutor has been the subject of debate for months and people have been talking about it
b) Harris didn't respond well to a line of attack she should have known was coming

The following things are also all true

a) Tulsi's been getting a lot of support from conservatives during this primary season. (see: that redstate article ALSO trying to strawman anything Russia-related.)
b) In attacking Harris, one of the claims appears to have been sourced directly from a conservative media outlet- the factcheckers couldn't find it anywhere else
c) Russian bots have been actively promoting Tulsi's campaign this entire cycle, and when it was reported on, Tulsi attacked the reporters
d) Russian bots have also been going after Harris with racist attacks since the prior debate

None of the last 4 make any claim that Tulsi's directly coordinating with Russian efforts. It's completely unnecessary to go that far. Her documented behavior is bad enough on its own. None of this is an attempt to "drown out" discussion of those other issues (hell how many Harris discussions have we had prior to this?) unless your issue with discussion of the bots is because you are actively happy with what the bots are doing because they're going after someone you don't like and/or propping up someone you do.
Tulsi keeps capping for Joe and its weirding me out. She trying to move towards a VP spot if hes nominated?

It shouldn't be weirding you out, she's not a "progressive" at all, unless your definition of "progressive" includes those interested in a herrenvolk state.
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,545
Tulsi ain't gonna do shit except launch a few more broadsides. There's no way she's even under consideration for the VP slot for anyone.
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,685
Tulsi ain't gonna do shit except launch a few more broadsides. There's no way she's even under consideration for the VP slot for anyone.
Are we really expecting the man who is personally responsible for Clarence Thomas being on the Supreme Court to be perceptive to the reasons why people on here don’t like her
 

Pikachu

Traded his Bone Marrow for Pizza
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,076
It’s actually crazy how it took two days for the chant at the debate to get Di Blasio go look into firing the cop
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,281
So we’re starting to get polling throughout, or post, the debate. It looks like Sanders is thus far firmly holding onto second place.


Of course we’ll probably see some slight adjustments in the coming week or so. Hopefully Biden drops further and the progressive coalition continues to pick up steam.
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,296
I never said that lmao, Tulsi can get in the bin. You're the one in here doing the cis gay "I only care about queers when it affects me" thing by calling out Tulsi's shit and handwaving the way Harris materially harmed trans prisoners as red scare
Let’s avoid putting words in the mouths of others. You know neither my gender self identification nor my sexuality nor my relationship to activism with regards to disenfranchised people. Have a nice night.

hey, can you please stop bullying other posters? thanks
Hey, can you stop misusing the term bullying? thanks.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,608
Let’s avoid putting words in the mouths of others.
After you're in here accusing others of being creepy anti gay russian signal boosters because they said "yes those facts about Harris's record are true"? Yes, let's avoid putting words in other people's mouths. Please


I know it's hard when favorite candidates faceplant during debates (first Beto, now Kamala), but there's really no need to get conspiratorial or try to smear other posters because of it. It's tacky. And sad.
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,296
After you're in here accusing others of being creepy anti gay russian signal boosters because they said "yes those facts about Harris's record are true"? Yes, let's avoid putting words in other people's mouths. Please


I know it's hard when favorite candidates faceplant during debates (first Beto, now Kamala), but there's really no need to get conspiratorial or try to smear other posters because of it. It's tacky. And sad.
I’m sorry, dear, what? I thought Warren was great this week. Besos.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,358
First fully after debate poll:


No candidate saw movement outside the survey’s margin of error of 2 percentage points. The Aug. 1 poll was conducted among 2,419registered voters who indicated they may vote in the Democratic primary or caucus in their state.

The latest debates did not move the needle like the Miami debates in June, which saw Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) double her vote share in the immediate aftermath, moving from 6 percent of the vote to 12 percent, and Biden’s support dropping 5 percentage points.
Both debates this week brought similar dynamics as the first round, with lesser-known candidates aiming their fire on the stage’s front-runners. On Tuesday, Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) faced criticism over their ideology from their more moderate peers, while the second night saw Biden and Harris criticized over their records.
While pundits applauded Warren for her performance in night one of CNN’s two-night debate — both for zinging former Rep. John Delaney (Md.) and spotlighting policy issues such as health care — her and Sanders’ more progressive policy stances were targets for their more centrist counterparts.
Candidates used Wednesday to attack front-runner Biden over his criminal justice record and the Obama administration’s deportation record, but their attempts to discredit the former vice president were largely unfruitful in terms of changing voters’ minds — at least in the short term. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (Hawaii) also used the stage to criticize Harris’ record as attorney general of California.
https://morningconsult.com/2019/07/10/democratic-presidential-race-closer-among-primary-likeliest-voters/

For the record, Biden recovered his numbers entirely from last months debate. There was a dip, for about two weeks, before people flocked back to him. Harris was not "destroyed" by Gabbard in the polls, Bernie and Warren's zingers didn't change anyone's minds. On a side note, the eight in the graph are the only ones who qualify for the next debate atm.
 
Oct 27, 2017
674
No, that is not the claim. That is a straw man you and others are creating and attributing to other people instead of actually reckoning with what's been happening.

The following things are all true

a) Harris's record as a prosecutor has been the subject of debate for months and people have been talking about it
b) Harris didn't respond well to a line of attack she should have known was coming

The following things are also all true

a) Tulsi's been getting a lot of support from conservatives during this primary season. (see: that redstate article ALSO trying to strawman anything Russia-related.)
b) In attacking Harris, one of the claims appears to have been sourced directly from a conservative media outlet- the factcheckers couldn't find it anywhere else
c) Russian bots have been actively promoting Tulsi's campaign this entire cycle, and when it was reported on, Tulsi attacked the reporters
d) Russian bots have also been going after Harris with racist attacks since the prior debate

None of the last 4 make any claim that Tulsi's directly coordinating with Russian efforts. It's completely unnecessary to go that far. Her documented behavior is bad enough on its own. None of this is an attempt to "drown out" discussion of those other issues (hell how many Harris discussions have we had prior to this?) unless your issue with discussion of the bots is because you are actively happy with what the bots are doing because they're going after someone you don't like and/or propping up someone you do.
I'm just not sure that the conversation has been as nuanced as you describe, when we have quotes like these:

I don't think she's a Russian agent, but she's perfect for that type of role being a Republican posing as a Democrat in these debates.
Tulsi is the vector here and they only activated with one of these targets.
And I'm sorry, but stuff like that is just kind of absurd and serves quite well to steer the conversation to revolve mostly around Russia and bots.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,358
So we’re starting to get polling throughout, or post, the debate. It looks like Sanders is thus far firmly holding onto second place.


Of course we’ll probably see some slight adjustments in the coming week or so. Hopefully Biden drops further and the progressive coalition continues to pick up steam.
See, Biden actually hasn't dropped from his average. The opposite, actually, his low point was post the last debate by a couple of weeks and he's gone back to his mid point since. And Bernie's numbers have barely budged at all.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,547
First fully after debate poll:





For the record, Biden recovered his numbers entirely from last months debate. There was a dip, for about two weeks, before people flocked back to him. Harris was not "destroyed" by Gabbard in the polls, Bernie and Warren's zingers didn't change anyone's minds. On a side note, the eight in the graph are the only ones who qualify for the next debate atm.
Looks like we’re all just Biden our time.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,608
Biden needs to actually poop his pants and have drool running out of his mouth on stage for people to start jumping ship
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,296
First fully after debate poll:





For the record, Biden recovered his numbers entirely from last months debate. There was a dip, for about two weeks, before people flocked back to him. Harris was not "destroyed" by Gabbard in the polls, Bernie and Warren's zingers didn't change anyone's minds. On a side note, the eight in the graph are the only ones who qualify for the next debate atm.
Nice to see Warren get a little bump. I’m still hoping something can shake Biden, maybe a smaller debate field will open him to some lines of attack from Forma.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,358
Nice to see Warren get a little bump. I’m still hoping something can shake Biden, maybe a smaller debate field will open him to some lines of attack from Forma.
I'm actually starting to doubt if the debate are going to have much of an effect on Biden's numbers. The one before this one did shake up the numbers for two weeks, but things went right back to where they were in the last couple of weeks and this one didn't change a thing. Also, I have the feeling that the things that people like Bernie and Warren to say at the debates wrt to healthcare and otherwise actually don't help them in the polls.

Either case, I doubt there will be any attacks that have the emotional impact of Harris in the first debate. People are probably getting inoculated to the Biden attacks and starting to tune them out.
 

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,296
I'm actually starting to doubt if the debate are going to have much of an effect on Biden's numbers. The one before this one did shake up the numbers for two weeks, but things went right back to where they were in the last couple of weeks and this one didn't change a thing. Also, I have the feeling that the things that people like Bernie and Warren to say at the debates wrt to healthcare and otherwise actually don't help them in the polls.
Maybe. But it seems like aside from Harris’s attack on him in the first debate, no one has gone in too hard yet. I do worry that he’s a lock but it seems far from inevitable.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,358
Maybe. But it seems like aside from Harris’s attack on him in the first debate, no one has gone in too hard yet. I do worry that he’s a lock but it seems far from inevitable.
The last debate was 90% people attacking Biden. It's why he got nearly double the time as everyone else. I'm getting the impression that people are starting to take it as an attack on Obama.
 

Melkr_

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,953
Will Warren dropout though? Bernie is firmly in second place and MANY polls put him at double of her. And she has had two spectacular debates, yet it seems she has a very firm ceiling of 15% or 9% depending on the poll.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,358
Will Warren dropout though? Bernie is firmly in second place and MANY polls put him at double of her. And she has had two spectacular debates, yet it seems she has a very firm ceiling of 15% or 9% depending on the poll.
Warren dropping out would give a bigger bump to Harris than Bernie.
 

phanphare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,911
can we please stop with the x-candidate polling above 10% should drop out until some votes are cast? please

unless you're talking about Biden
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,672
can we please stop with the x-candidate polling above 10% should drop out until some votes are cast? please

unless you're talking about Biden
No it's August polling so obvious we know now that Sanders is going to poll better than Warren and Kamala when it matters, so they both need to drop out now so BIden can be defeated!

I mean Bernie is my second choice, but come on now. If everybody drops out Bernie will win!
 

phanphare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,911
No it's August polling so obvious we know now that Sanders is going to poll better than Warren and Kamala when it matters, so they both need to drop out now so BIden can be defeated!

I mean Bernie is my second choice, but come on now.
none of the top candidates are dropping out now. they would be dumb to hence any discussion about one of them dropping out is just absolutely worthless

there are more debates to be had and you can bet your ass unless something drastically changes biden, bernie, warren, and harris are going to be in the race for the first primary states

What about the irrelevant dropping out first like Gillibrand, De Blasio, Inslee, Delaney, Ryan and Hickenlooper
of course

I'm mostly just talking about how absolutely dumb the petty sniping is between people trying to say bernie should drop out to clear a path for warren and the people responding by saying warren should drop out to clear a path for bernie

like, yeah, one of them isn't going to win but fuckin' a, it's august. chill

also can everyone please take a moment to appreciate that we have two candidates like bernie and warren polling where they are, having the debate presence that they have had, and basically dictating the primary narrative in regards to the debate around policy
 
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Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,608
What about the irrelevant dropping out first like Gillibrand, De Blasio, Inslee, Delaney, Ryan and Hickenlooper
Seriously. How about a debate with only the candidates who actually matter before the major leaguers start dropping

Half of both of these debates were taken up with blathering from nobodies hoping for a future cabinet position. Such a waste of time
 
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