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Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,018
No. I don't have time.
You're literally reading right now. That's basically all you can do on this forum.

I am aware of that. But the poster I quoted was saying something about transparency and the current moment and about liberals.

He means that the coordinated attack (and Mike Cernovich's reactions to it's success) are blatantly obvious tells of motivations and what is actually at stake--Trump's critics--instead of any sort of actual moral issue.
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,134
I have no clue what's happening here other than James Gunn apparently tweeted some fucked up stuff and is now fired from Guardians.

Why do people want him unfired?
Context is what is important. Gunn tweeted some anti-Trump stuff and the Alt-Right got pissy and started digging up some old offensive tweets he never deleted. What you need to know is that Gunn already apologized years ago for those tweets and since then has been bettering himself, but Disney for some reason decided to act fast and fire him despite probably knowing about those tweets before hiring him.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
First of all, you guys are nuts if you think Horn acted unilaterally. He obviously had Iger's blessing.

Second, there are various options Disney can take to mitigate the PR fallout here, but the problem is that their initial statement was so aggressive and condemning that it's hard for them to walk any part of it back without looking weak. Disney's extremely fast and forceful reaction makes them look incredibly hypocritical (see also: "Lasseter, John") while also preventing them from properly assessing the context of the situation.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,199
Singapore
Sounds like that would make him an easy fall guy if Disney wanted to save face?
I dunno about fall guy, but if they name a replacement later this year, they could also wait it out and announce a reconciliation with Gunn next year if they want to. Different top management, different decisions. Alternatively if they want to backpeddle quickly, it might be embarrassing but if the chairman isn't sticking around he might not even mind? Or they might do nothing. Who knows. It's a little early to say.
First of all, you guys are nuts if you think Horn acted unilaterally. He obviously had Iger's blessing.
He definitely did. I guess the question is how much Feige was kept in the loop for this, and how Iger would feel this week after having more talks with people who actually run that part of the business. There's definitely a lot of unhappiness going around the company now.
 

Chumley

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,651
I am aware of that. But the poster I quoted was saying something about transparency and the current moment and about liberals.

Nappucino summed it up. Cernovich, InfoWars, etc. have been playing this game for 2 years and it's now peaked. Some liberals are still fucking clueless about their tactics, how they manipulate emotion, and how this is actually a culture war. They're successfully driving out liberal voices.
 

tommy7154

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,370
Context is what is important. Gunn tweeted some anti-Trump stuff and the Alt-Right got pissy and started digging up some old offensive tweets he never deleted. What you need to know is that Gunn already apologized years ago for those tweets and since then has been bettering himself, but Disney for some reason decided to act fast and fire him despite probably knowing about those tweets before hiring him.
Ohhh now I understand what this is actually about. Thanks.
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
First of all, you guys are nuts if you think Horn acted unilaterally. He obviously had Iger's blessing.

Second, there are various options Disney can take to mitigate the PR fallout here, but the problem is that their initial statement was so aggressive and condemning that it's hard for them to walk any part of it back without looking weak. Disney's extremely fast and forceful reaction makes them look incredibly hypocritical (see also: "Lasseter, John") while also preventing them from properly assessing the context of the situation.

That's why I think they could make Horn the fall guy. It seems odd that he, of all people. was asked to publicise the firing when he rarely ever seems involved with the Marvel side of things.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,110
First of all, you guys are nuts if you think Horn acted unilaterally
Saving face isn't about what actually happened. It's about not looking bad (or as bad). Independent of the fact that he couldn't possibly have acted unilaterally, if they wanted to go down that road, that's the excuse they'd use and there'd be nothing anyone could do to refute them.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,648
He means that the coordinated attack (and Mike Cernovich's reactions to it's success) are blatantly obvious tells of motivations and what is actually at stake--Trump's critics--instead of any sort of actual moral issue.

Nappucino summed it up. Cernovich, InfoWars, etc. have been playing this game for 2 years and it's now peaked. Some liberals are still fucking clueless about their tactics, how they manipulate emotion, and how this is actually a culture war. They're successfully driving out liberal voices.

Alright, I gotcha. And I agree.
 

Chumley

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,651
I signed the petition early on and think redemption is a virtue.

Here is what I think most are upset about and it's not the movie. How does the left plan to win elections when an apologetic and redeemed ally of the left gets treated like this? It is a microcosm of the current political world we live in. The Right literally elected a President that said grab them by the pussy and had affairs and a ton of other horrible shit but their agenda is more important than the man. The left will eat their own. They will disavow those that aren't perfect (I don't want to use Putiry or Virtue test) or dont have pasts that align with their terms and conditions.

That is not a fair fight. He didn't hide or run from his past. He evolved and apologized. He fought the lefts fight. He supported movements and his movies showed that same growth. The world is messy and so are people. There is Grey in the world. This attitude is what should make the Left very scared about their political climate. The alt right can do this because the left allows it.

Didn't see this before but this needs to be shouted from the rooftops.
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
I do think Disney is positioned to use Alan Horn as a fall guy (and he'd probably be okay with it given he is set to retire this year anyway), but I'm still not sure they would go that route. Iger definitely would have signed off on this firing even if he never publicly admits it and I don't see how Disney reverses this decision and still looks strong, even if they use Horn as a sacrificial lamb.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,648
I don't think they expected or planned for Bautista to come out as strongly as he did. That really seemed to get the ball rolling.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,199
Singapore
That's why I think they could make Horn the fall guy. It seems odd that he, of all people. was asked to publicise the firing when he rarely ever seems involved with the Marvel side of things.
It's not odd? He's the chairman, he makes these statements. When John Lasseter finally fucked off from Disney Animation, Horn was also the one who announced the replacements at Disney Animation and Pixar. They report to him directly.
 

Malverde

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
I have no clue what's happening here other than James Gunn apparently tweeted some fucked up stuff and is now fired from Guardians.

Why do people want him unfired? I thought the tweets were pretty gross myself. Who jokes like that?

People like you only half paying attention and saying "eh, fuck that guy" are exactly what the Nazi's are hoping for.



 

Chumley

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,651
I do think Disney is positioned to use Alan Horn as a fall guy (and he'd probably be okay with it given he is set to retire this year anyway), but I'm still not sure they would go that route. Iger definitely would have signed off on this firing even if he never publicly admits it and I don't see how Disney reverses this decision and still looks strong, even if they use Horn as a sacrificial lamb.

They're going to look weak no matter what, the more traction the link to Cernovich gets. They can either look weak for a firing and re-hiring blunder that stayed in the news for a week or two, or look weak for bending to the alt-right and endure who knows how much public backlash over a likely longer period of time.
 

R0b1n

Member
Jun 29, 2018
7,787
That's up to the people actually working on GOTG, I think. If they want to make a huge stink, maybe something happens. But the Mouse is strong. If they want to eat this and keep trekking, it's not outside their range to survive.
Won't it be career suicide to break contracts with a company soon about to own 40% of the box office?
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
Won't it be career suicide to break contracts with a company soon about to own 40% of the box office?
Not really. Pratt and Saldana have other big franchises they're a part of. And Disney isn't going to let GotG just cease to exist, it's too big a franchise for them and they're in the middle of integrating it into their theme parks for long term exposure. They actors actually have a decent amount of power here if they choose to exercise it.
 

NoRéN

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,623
Nappucino summed it up. Cernovich, InfoWars, etc. have been playing this game for 2 years and it's now peaked. Some liberals are still fucking clueless about their tactics, how they manipulate emotion, and how this is actually a culture war. They're successfully driving out liberal voices.
I agree.
Liberals prefer to pat themselves on the back most times.
 

R0b1n

Member
Jun 29, 2018
7,787
Not really. Pratt and Saldana have other big franchises they're a part of. And Disney isn't going to let GotG just cease to exist, it's too big a franchise for them and they're in the middle of integrating it into their theme parks for long term exposure. They actors actually have a decent amount of power here if they choose to exercise it.
Hmmm, maybe if the actors threaten a mass walk out it can happen. But I don't think they will, most of their reponses aren't strong enough.
 
May 26, 2018
24,020
Hmmm, maybe if the actors threaten a mass walk out it can happen. But I don't think they will, most of their reponses aren't strong enough.

They've nearly all said something to support Gunn, with Bautista being the strongest. It's probably up to Disney's folks now to respond in some way. Or not. If Disney is very rule-with-an-iron-fist about it, it's not impossible you might see that scenario take place. Again, weird political complexities are afoot. Unknown where it could go.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,351
Every single man, woman, and child with access to the internet could sign this petition and it would prompt neither the rehiring of James Gunn nor the acceptance of the job.
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
It's not odd? He's the chairman, he makes these statements. When John Lasseter finally fucked off from Disney Animation, Horn was also the one who announced the replacements at Disney Animation and Pixar. They report to him directly.

I guess I never really paid attention to Horn in that regard.
 

xyla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,385
Germany
Even if they are under contract, it will look even worse for Disney to actually take legal action against any crew members standing up for Gunn. Good on Bautista for not hesitating to take a stand, the rest of the cast doing the same (or hell, even just Saldana and Pratt) would do more to force Disney's hand than anything else.

There won't be legal action against the cast. Disney has enough reach to simlpy not hire anyone again after their contract runs out. And that can be a killer move.

I'm excited about what is going to happen though. It's good to see that people are recognizing who's the villain here and that this is simply unfair and not just.

You don't have to forgive him for the tweets - that's just fine. Imo the circumstances surrounding the firing are still setting a dangerous precedent though. And it's good to see so many people speaking out for Gunn. Hopefully Disney makes a move in the right direction - but personally I think it's 75/25 for Disney doubling down against sitting down with Gunn at least.

BTW: I know it's worth nothing, but I won't pay any money to view GotG 3 in cinemas under the current circumstances. Maybe Avengers 4 is a good movie for me to stop.
I doubt, I would be able to enjoy the movie, knowing all the stuff that's happened behind the camera.
 

R0b1n

Member
Jun 29, 2018
7,787
There won't be legal action against the cast. Disney has enough reach to simlpy not hire anyone again after their contract runs out. And that can be a killer move.

I'm excited about what is going to happen though. It's good to see that people are recognizing who's the villain here and that this is simply unfair and not just.

You don't have to forgive him for the tweets - that's just fine. Imo the circumstances surrounding the firing are still setting a dangerous precedent though. And it's good to see so many people speaking out for Gunn. Hopefully Disney makes a move in the right direction - but personally I think it's 75/25 for Disney doubling down against sitting down with Gunn at least.

If anything happens it'll be after the Fox merger is completed. When it is again?
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
Hmmm, maybe if the actors threaten a mass walk out it can happen. But I don't think they will, most of their reponses aren't strong enough.
Yes, I agree. They are probably having stronger responses behind the scenes so we don't really know entirely what is going on.

There won't be legal action against the cast. Disney has enough reach to simlpy not hire anyone again after their contract runs out. And that can be a killer move.

Legal action or not hiring people again would both be empty threats from Disney. Pratt and Saldana are the linchpins in any cast strike and both of them have other major franchises still shooting (and millions of dollars) to fall back on. Even when Disney gets their hands on Avatar, it's not like they're going to force James Cameron to fire her from the 20 movies she's currently shooting. The other actors both aren't very big and don't have a ton of power. Bautista is maybe a bit better off than the rest.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,194
Seattle
People think that if Disney walks back a bit on Gunn (they can spin in it in some positive fashion), that all of a sudden shareholders are going to vote no?

By the way I'm guessing many of the proxy votes have already happened, one of my best friends has already voted.
 

Malverde

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
This is going to be all over the news tomorrow, particularly Bautista's comments. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney takes a bite out of this shit sandwich and delivers a new statement early tomorrow. Whether that is a statement doubling down or walking back I don't know, but they need to get in front of the narrative and at least try to steer it.
 

xyla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,385
Germany
Bad press makes for scared stock holders.

Well, the current situation is building up to be bad press too. It's getting big enough to be reported as an ongoing story.

Yes, I agree. They are probably having stronger responses behind the scenes so we don't really know entirely what is going on.

Legal action or not hiring people again would both be empty threats from Disney. Pratt and Saldana are the linchpins in any cast strike and both of them have other major franchises still shooting (and millions of dollars) to fall back on. Even when Disney gets their hands on Avatar, it's not like they're going to force James Cameron to fire her from the 20 movies she's currently shooting. The other actors both aren't very big and don't have a ton of power. Bautista is maybe a bit better off than the rest.

We've seen with metoo how "easy" it to blacklist actors and keep them from getting work. And we are talking about the career of A-list actors here. There's a lot of money on the line for the main cast. It's their profession and they want to stay on top of the game - at least that's what I suspect. Disney has a lot more power than any of those actors. Maybe even together - which would require all of them to speak up in the first place.

We'll see how it goes, but this is a situation that will set a precedent going forward. If it's still about reacting as fast and harsh as possible or if it's going to be more nuanced.
 

poptire

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,977
Yea I read that they were the ones who leaked the info. What was the misinformation though? Also, is there any reason why they dislike Gunn?
Nothing was leaked. Gunn nipped it in the bud years ago and had moved on.

Pizzagate was angry that Gunn was an ally to the left and not a Trump supporter so he resurfaced them in hopes that it would sink Gunn and it worked.