Discussion in 'Video Games' started by lupianwolf, Jan 6, 2018.
Please try to be civil and constructive and avoid making drive by posts that insult one or both parties in personal terms. There are clearly strong feelings involved here but there is no need for ad hominem.
Damn, I hope this gets sorted out quickly.
But I’m surprised how DF could’ve missed this, this will clearly damage their name as well.
Apparently the developers are clearly accusing DF of lying, i just read a thread on the Steam forum where they say so. Hopefullyxbox one version will be patched and the misudnerstanding will be lifted.Whether DF is right or wrong I feel developers overracted a bit.
Didn't DF update their article to say that they made a mistake and it was dynamic res as per the video by VGTech?
I've been going back and forth about this with a 34BigThings employee on Twitter forever now. Digital Foundry has shown nothing but integrity in the past, and I strongly doubt they would purposefully like to their fans or try to sabotage a game. If 34BT can prove that Digital Foundry is wrong, they should contact them and do so. If they did that and Digital Foundry wouldn't remove the video and apologise, then perhaps legal action would be in order. But publicly threatening a reviewer should definitely not be your first move, especially if you're trying to lower the negative attention you're getting.
I'd be surprised if legal action actually got them anywhere, other than a more negative image.
Is there any other group similar to Digital Foundry that does similar technical analysis on games that may verify whether DF video is actually factual or fictional?
This is complex and I'm not sure where I sit on it. However, if DF did make a mistake and this developer feels like that's done enough damage to the game/brand, which it might judging by the comments section of people swearing they'll never buy from this developer again, then there might be some justification.
I dunno jumping straight to legal action without waiting for clarification seems off to me. DF gain nothing by misleading people so I'm leaning on an honest mistake.
Hmm he says they added dynamic res scaling in an update? Maybe they did the vid pre-patch? This is odd, for sure.
Funny thing is that DF did not call devs lazy at any point. They actually heavily recommended game, just were baffled by lack of too many improvements and version being in their capture worse than pro.
The sane dev commentary would be 'we are working on fixing perf and resolution is dynamic, but it seems their captures didnt manage to get cases with higher res' and i bet that DF would include it in the article and review performance after patch would release.
By overreacting and threatening DF they basically made themselves PR nightmare and slight career suicide.
So it was dynamic res, including the 1080p resolution within that range.
DF seem to have rectified, so I'd hope that both parties can resolve this without escalation.
To be fair to DF, they weren't making any comments about the team being lazy. All that is Twitter reactions.
Why does it matter if it renders at 1080p or not? Do the devs advertise it as a 4k game or something?
I very much doubt that it was DF who called them "lazy" and they are not really responsible about stupid people being stupid, because they surely didn't tell those stupid people to harass the devs.
Can't imagine that this sueing will go through. Seems a little bit extreme to use this to set an example. Could have easily been worked out in a private conversation.
I think threatening DF with legal action is completely ridiculous. This developer is just screwing themselves over.
I dont read anything bad in what DF wrote, they just made mistakes possibly, but that is all. Hopefully redout developers realize it just happens that some players reacted in aggressive way but that DF is not responsible for that.
If they claim it scales to 90% of 4k, then they should be able to tell us how well it adheres to that upper limit in some capacity, right? The CEO seems to want to call out DF, but it is known that DF uses pixel counting to determine resolution. If they only found 1080p, then that suggests that it hardly sticks to above 1080p resolutions. If the dev can show that it is regularly significantly above 1080p, then they might be able to say that DF didn't analyse properly and caused image damage to their product.
Not at all a legal expert, so I don't know if this holds water.
Finally a gamedev speaks up about this stuff. Misinformation like that can really be harming to sales for game devs, especially Indies.
Should at least given DF the benefit of the doubt. Mistakes happen and all. :V
So in the end did digital foundry just get unlucky with their shots? For all of them to come out at 1080p seems really unlikely.
That strikes me as an incredibly unprofessional response, regardless of whether DF was wrong or right. If they were in the wrong, he should have just told them where and how, and they would have corrected the article for sure. What he has done instead is to paint himself in a bad light, with little to gain from it. Not the smartest route to counter negativity.
So the CEO makes a bigger mistake than DF when defending the game. Will he sue himself as the mistake may taint their reputation?
So are they looking into taking legal action against """"gamers"""" who called them "lazy" and "incompetent"? Because, correct me if I'm wrong but DF didn't call them lazy or incompetent.
Good thing nomatter the outcome, is that it shows DF how important it is to have their data correct. Nowadays it can have real financial consequences for developers.
DF has gotten things wrong before and are usually quick to issue updates and retractions when devs contact them. The devs also could have taken a look at the game to see if the dynamic res function is working as intended since they even admit that 1080p is indeed a resolution it can hit plus they wrongly think that 1080p is 50% of 4K when it's 25% which leads me to believe they're not even quite sure how it works.
DF has always shown a lot of respect for developers even in cases of poor performing games. Threatening them with legal action because some fanboys got mad on Twitter is a bad look.
It's all about role models and their position in society and perceived power over individuals (as is implied by the comments posted in the press release). If you are in the position of a powerful brand like Digital Foundry, you really have no pause to breath. You either get it right every time or get burned down on first mistake. Very interesting.
Twitter update from the developers: https://twitter.com/34bigthings/status/949757275866124289
"Redout: Lightspeed Edition runs at [email protected] with dynamic resolution scaling on Xbox One X after the enhanced update we released some weeks ago. We will keep working on performance and bugfixes in the future and we will not tolerate lies."
Ignoring the 1080p claim they made a mistake on the fact of the matter is the game game drops into the mid 40s framerate wise (while PS4 Pro is locked) and the X version still uses the base assets of the One and didnt get the bump in textures like the PS4 Pro.
This is a very weird situation. On one hand Digital Foundry did their due diligence and they always do so. I doubt they missed out on small details on purpose or to damage the devs image. They have no stake on these games other than giving their audience a real technical analysis.
On the other hand, the devs could've been more civil in this situation and put up their own video to debunk them and essentially ask for Digital Foundry to amend things and maybe apologize for missing these details.
Lastly, the gaming audience's obsession with resolution and framerate and jumping the gun is come to a point that developers should expect everyone to call them lazy, regardless of how lazy they're not.
Legal action as setting an "example" is honestly going to do these devs more harm than good. No one is going to parade them on fixing digital foundry's comments.
In the end, the ONLY example this should set is game developers THEMSELVES need to put up videos showing how their game runs on each console (similar to how Kojima Production did on MGS5) without relying on others to prove or disprove.
The onus is on the the gaming industry and not the press or gamers to provide us with HONEST answers without deception. There's been too many deception in this damn industry that when there is an honest mistake made, they jump the gun to "legal actions".
All in all, hilariously petty and shitty situation that can be solved with one phonecall.
Isn't this game also coming to Switch also? If it runs this way on these powerful systems I shudder to think Switch's version
And to ask people not to obsess over frame rate and resolution... this is digital foundry, people who ARE into those things come to this place for their analysis and breakdowns.
This seems like an insane approach. Like, why not reach out to DF I’m good faith and explain the issues and ask for a correction?
The dev calling this "lies" is extremely childish. I very much doubt that DF knowingly put out wrong information. I'm curious as to how often this game hits 4k. DF are not amateurs.
whats wrong with saying 'hey do you mind maybe looking into that again df cause that's not what we're getting :)'
instead of 'liars! we'll sue!'
they should finish the game first
Edit: they are probably taking advantage of the situation