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4 Improvements Halo: Infinite Can Make to Resurrect the Brand (Discussion)

Oct 29, 2017
5,125
No, Halo 3 was terrible because of the lack of hitscan combined with it's netcode.
Played perfect on LAN , so it couldn’t be the net code.
Any experience I had at the time I could squarely aim at player hosted P2P servers , terrible home networks and 2007 internet.
 
Jan 3, 2018
344
After finishimg halo wars 2 I think halo wars 2 story and the dupla Jerome and Ysabel pretty much interesting than any story from halo 4 and 5. What have they make to the chief? He is pretty boring now... and cortana? Prff
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,125
Why should shooting be tied to slowing down?

The best way to explain why reason I hate sprint is like this:

When I played Halo 2, I could run from point A to point B, while shooting someone at Point C, while checking my flank back at Point A, then chucking a grenade to clear point B- All while moving at top speed the whole time.

When I play H5, If I run from Point A to Point B, I have to look at Point B the whole time. Oh and I can't shoot anyone, check my flank or throw grenades without slowing down and killing my vibe.

Simply put, I find the H2 scenario to be Allow for more dynamic scenarios, and thus more fun. It also also the dev more freedom with map design.

If someone asks me if a want to Shoot people or move fast, my answer will be "why not both?" every time. Why would I want to have half the fun in any given moment?
I don’t understand this example , because in Halo 2 all players were moving the same speed regardless of whether they were shooting or not.

In your example you are complaining that the other 2 players are moving the same speed and YOU are able to move even faster faster if you choose to sprint, but somehow you are at a disadvantage compared to the Halo 2 situation....
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,027
1. Get rid of the useless armor/weapon/design clutter
2. Revisit what made Halo campaigns feel epic, yet charming and funny at the same time
3. Bigger and more dynamic physics sandbox
4. Innovation (smarter AI, open and large battles, player freedom, ambience)

Those are the four main things I feel the franchise needs.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,119
1. Get rid of the useless armor/weapon/design clutter
2. Revisit what made Halo campaigns feel epic, yet charming and funny at the same time
3. Bigger and more dynamic physics sandbox
4. Innovation (smarter AI, open and large battles, player freedom, ambience)

Those are the four main things I feel the franchise needs.
These are very good points.

I would just add.

Region lock by default the multiplayer day one too.
 
Nov 7, 2018
111
I don’t understand this example , because in Halo 2 all players were moving the same speed regardless of whether they were shooting or not.

In your example you are complaining that the other 2 players are moving the same speed and YOU are able to move even faster faster if you choose to sprint, but somehow you are at a disadvantage compared to the Halo 2 situation....
I think Trup1aya, and from I've read others, are mainly upset with in this regard is they decreased the base speed and made it so to regain that movement speed you previously had access to, you now need to sprint which has its drawbacks. Thats why I've been saying instead of being subtractive, they should be more additive. Keep the base movement speed pre-sprint levels and add a sprint on top of that with some more severe drawbacks during usage. This way both sides are happy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,479
I don’t understand this example , because in Halo 2 all players were moving the same speed regardless of whether they were shooting or not.
In Halo 2, all players are moving at maximum speed at all times, even when shooting.

In Halo 5, when you shoot, You have to move at a speed < maximum speed to shoot

In your example you are complaining that the other 2 players are moving the same speed and YOU are able to move even faster faster if you choose to sprint, but somehow you are at a disadvantage compared to the Halo 2 situation....
No. If you scaled up H2 to play on H5 maps, then H2s base speed would equal H5s sprint speed.

So In the scenario I provided, the player could choose to look at Point B the whole time (as you would in H5). Or he could engage the players all around him, while still moving towards point B. He has way more options at his disposal, at all times w/o having to slow down to utilize them - having to slow down would put him at a disadvantage because the weapons and map spacings are tuned against max speed.

I think Trup1aya, and from I've read others, are mainly upset with in this regard is they decreased the base speed and made it so to regain that movement speed you previously had access to, you now need to sprint which has its drawbacks. Thats why I've been saying instead of being subtractive, they should be more additive. Keep the base movement speed pre-sprint levels and add a sprint on top of that with some more severe drawbacks during usage. This way both sides are happy.
That wouldn't make both sides happy... It would just scale up the problem. Any time you have a "sprint" you'll have to stretch maps and weapon range to account for it, which then makes base speed too slow.

The solution: take your proposed sprint speed and make it the default speed. It's as if you're always sprinting but w/o ever losing the ability to shoot...
 
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Oct 27, 2017
2,080
It’s hard to make anything worse than 5. The campaign is so bad so anything could top it.

I bet I could find any random guy on the street, give him 3 years time and Halo 1-Reach key point story and he could crap a better story than 4 and 5.

Stop changing the Chief. Halo universe is massive so go nuts there.
 
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Oct 30, 2017
1,395
Without looking at any previous comments I can guess that opinions are all over the place. Some people want no sprint and return to halo 3 “classic gameplay” and some want halo 5 style gameplay. Argument of this point has taken over this thread. An i right or am I wrong?
Because there is no consensus, 343i should continue making the game that they want.
 
Nov 7, 2018
111
That wouldn't make both sides happy... It would just scale up the problem. Any time you have a "sprint" you'll have to stretch maps and weapon range to account for it, which then makes base speed too slow.
Fair enough. It seems like a balance issue to me but I don't know anything about map design or game design for that matter so I have no rebuttal. I just can't imagine a modern AAA multiplayer heavy shooter shipping without sprint but that's probably for another thread.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,479
Fair enough. It seems like a balance issue to me but I don't know anything about map design or game design for that matter so I have no rebuttal. I just can't imagine a modern AAA multiplayer heavy shooter shipping without sprint but that's probably for another thread.
There's only one character in Overwatch that sprints... It's fine.

I'd be interested to hear some balancing ideas other than "slow down to shoot", because that's always been more contentious than beneficial with this franchise.

Also you can't have a Halo thread without sprint dominating the discussion, so don't sweat it!
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,306
  1. Return of fun to 4v4. I love halo 5's drive to make something for the competitive crowd (even if they didn't quite get there). I definitely believe that there doesnt have to be a competitive vs casual design conflict; a game built to be competitively viable should absolutely be something that casual players can play and have fun with. buuuut, halo 5's 4v4 mp left out a lot of the fun that halo fans look for. i want infinite to have really great competitive maps and modes. sweaty as fuck ranked playlists that reflect what the pros are playing. but i also want unranked that in addition to the ranked list also has "less competitive" maps, weapon/vehicle sets, and gamemodes. i want to play on larger, open, 4v4 1-flag ctf (or 1 bomb) maps with warthogs and/or ghosts. i want to play ricochet. i want to shoot down a banshee and have its flaming wreckage smash into me.
  2. With my #1, we need (and i 100% expect at some point) a match composer. while i want to play 4v4 maps with vehicles and i love many objective game modes, not everyone else would. we should have the ability to fine tune from the wealth of what halo is to us and play only that. i NEVER want to play griffball again.
  3. Return of the silly and creative physics. give me less realistic but infinitely more fun and interesting physics of old. i want to be able to flip warthogs with well placed grenades. i want to splatter fools with parking cones. let me get killed by the guardians. i also want to again spend hours flipping warthogs 100s of feet into the air "just for fun" or to reach new places (perhaps the warthog could be indestructible again?).
  4. A return of the sense of wonder and exploration to single player. i want the world to once again be featured in the game to where its almost a character unto itself. Let it be mysterious and new. have it make the player generate their own questions and mysteries and DONT GIVE THOSE ANSWERS AWAY (at least early on or easily). i want large open environments as well as believable interior spaces that may (or may not!) feel more cramped. the old bungie halos, especially ce and 3, really nailed this and its been lost along the way. i love halo 5's multiple path design, and its level design in general, but it still felt like a linear path only with options - a far cry from how it feels to play CE. Along the same lines (but not its own number since this is already 4!) the sp vehicle sections too need to feel more natural and less game designy. let me feel like a vehicle is an option again. let me have opportunities to creatively steal them or discover them to radically change level strategies. dont plop me down in front of a tank and ask me to drive through large corridors ever again.
Thats a lot of really important "returns" to what made halo halo to me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,316
I feel like people should watch the Mixer recording of the making of the E3 Infinite reveal trailer. It gives a lot of hints as to what 343's direction is with Infinite.
 
Oct 27, 2017
590
What have you done.

The “having all content at launch” is a little strange. Yeah, hopefully they don’t do another Halo 5 and have no big team battle maps, but I’m sure this will have some sort of GaaS implementation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,306
I feel like people should watch the Mixer recording of the making of the E3 Infinite reveal trailer. It gives a lot of hints as to what 343's direction is with Infinite.
yup. that, in addition to the overall art direction of the trailer itself, makes me feel really good about where halo is going.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,529
What have you done.

The “having all content at launch” is a little strange. Yeah, hopefully they don’t do another Halo 5 and have no big team battle maps, but I’m sure this will have some sort of GaaS implementation.
I think what people really mean is don't strip the base game back and drip feed modes and features back into the game like it's the best free DLC ever, yes Halo 5 needed time to restructure modes and other things but with Infinite have the staples day one even if the map variety is light, don't go holding back again, have the full suite. Of course who knows what's old and new, replaced so pitch forks down for now.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,529
That is never how it works.
I know it's not, they had other priorities, focus on warzone etc. and bringing those things back isn't easy in a whole new game without a lot of work but it looks that way to many people with previous Halo suite expectations and free DLC roadmap.

It may even be similar for Infinite if the game changes substantially and other new modes take priority but they still want to bring back classic modes later but I hope they can at least have a solid variety that people can play around with day one, more so than halo 5.
 
Jun 12, 2018
750
It really didn't. Custom games had less options than Halo 1.
I think some of the criticism regarding the amount of content in modern halos is unfair. Halo 5 is only content scarce relative to other halo games. Compared to most games it launched with a sizable amount of content. It also added new content rapidly early on.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,875
I think some of the criticism regarding the amount of content in modern halos is unfair. Halo 5 is only content scarce relative to other halo games. Compared to most games it launched with a sizable amount of content. It also added new content rapidly early on.
Alot of the content added in after launch should have been in the game day one. I can forgive them with Forge but not everything else. At launch there was Breakout, Warzone, Slayer, CTF and the new version of territories. You couldn't even switch on infinite ammo in custom games at the time which meant no Swat. If Halo 5 atleast had the same amount of custom gametypes in Halo 2 or 3 at launch then they wouldn't have had as much criticism.

Right now still there is no one flag and one bomb assault, no Juggernaut and still no BTB or medium sized arena maps. Race is still broken aswell.
 
Jan 22, 2018
494
Higher TTK, I don't know if I agree with. Keep it near the levels that have been there in the Halo 3 range. Keep it for the four shot BR and the five shot pistol like in H5.

Personally I think Halo 5 was fantastic though, so I'm probably biased.

Beyond that, all content available at launch is tricky. I'd say to make sure you have all the classic gamemodes for launch, but maps you can add as time goes on. So maybe test out eight to ten strong 4v4 maps, 2 Warzone, and maybe 5 or so BTB/6V6 maps and you got a stew going.
 

Arx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
233
Whenever a thread like this pops up, people focus on the obvious. Remove advanced movement and "fix" the TTK (into whatever direction) and voilà, Halo is great again.

I don´t believe that the obvious things are even remotely as important as they seem to be at first glance, and i am saying that as someone who is not a fan of sprinting personally.
Halo needs more of the bold parts:

Can we have a functioning harpoon on the warthog or some use of the tether for some cool hijinks. I think the warthog needs improved with another function with cool sandbox possibilities. I mean come on, wire to a tree, incoming elites on ghosts. Can I tether to a rock then reverse off the cliff for a better scenic view then rock the physics to swing the warthog across the cliff to reach that hidden skull then wind up back up the cliff only for a glitch to bounce me a mile in the sky seeing that glorious Halo landscape way below.
1. Get rid of the useless armor/weapon/design clutter
2. Revisit what made Halo campaigns feel epic, yet charming and funny at the same time
3. Bigger and more dynamic physics sandbox
4. Innovation (smarter AI, open and large battles, player freedom, ambience)


Those are the four main things I feel the franchise needs.
  1. Return of fun to 4v4. I love halo 5's drive to make something for the competitive crowd (even if they didn't quite get there). I definitely believe that there doesnt have to be a competitive vs casual design conflict; a game built to be competitively viable should absolutely be something that casual players can play and have fun with. buuuut, halo 5's 4v4 mp left out a lot of the fun that halo fans look for. i want infinite to have really great competitive maps and modes. sweaty as fuck ranked playlists that reflect what the pros are playing. but i also want unranked that in addition to the ranked list also has "less competitive" maps, weapon/vehicle sets, and gamemodes. i want to play on larger, open, 4v4 1-flag ctf (or 1 bomb) maps with warthogs and/or ghosts. i want to play ricochet. i want to shoot down a banshee and have its flaming wreckage smash into me.
  2. With my #1, we need (and i 100% expect at some point) a match composer. while i want to play 4v4 maps with vehicles and i love many objective game modes, not everyone else would. we should have the ability to fine tune from the wealth of what halo is to us and play only that. i NEVER want to play griffball again.
  3. Return of the silly and creative physics. give me less realistic but infinitely more fun and interesting physics of old. i want to be able to flip warthogs with well placed grenades. i want to splatter fools with parking cones. let me get killed by the guardians. i also want to again spend hours flipping warthogs 100s of feet into the air "just for fun" or to reach new places (perhaps the warthog could be indestructible again?).
  4. A return of the sense of wonder and exploration to single player. i want the world to once again be featured in the game to where its almost a character unto itself. Let it be mysterious and new. have it make the player generate their own questions and mysteries and DONT GIVE THOSE ANSWERS AWAY (at least early on or easily). i want large open environments as well as believable interior spaces that may (or may not!) feel more cramped. the old bungie halos, especially ce and 3, really nailed this and its been lost along the way. i love halo 5's multiple path design, and its level design in general, but it still felt like a linear path only with options - a far cry from how it feels to play CE. Along the same lines (but not its own number since this is already 4!) the sp vehicle sections too need to feel more natural and less game designy. let me feel like a vehicle is an option again. let me have opportunities to creatively steal them or discover them to radically change level strategies. dont plop me down in front of a tank and ask me to drive through large corridors ever again.
Thats a lot of really important "returns" to what made halo halo to me.
While the moment to moment gameplay sure is very important, i don´t think that Halo 5 was lacking that. The whole package was flawed, from the campaign structure to the multiplayers focus on e-sports. I especially agree with the quoted posters regarding physics. Make this shit fun to use, the harpoon/tether idea sounds really great.

The Halo of 2001 has been gone for nearly 20 years now. Its a fantastic game still, but Halo back in it´s day was not popular because it played like Wolfenstein 3d but rather because it did new and interesting things for it´s time. I believe that Halo Infinite needs more than one interesting and "spicy" element to make it popular, and not sprint/no sprint. Shooters are gigantic on consoles now, and the competition has long surpassed Halo in popularity.

Halo needs to be put back on the map AGAIN (because it´s simply not important anymore when it comes to player numbers), and that can only be achieved by doing unexpected and new things, not by heating up old ideas while resisting to change them.
 
Oct 29, 2017
932
I just want an art style that lasts. Playing Halo 3 on the X1X the game still looks incredible and Halo used to have a style. Halo 4 and 5 look like generic science fiction games. The trailer for Infinite and the blog post about the game gives me hope that they are aware of this. The post above me talks about how they need to do something new and innovative. I completely agree. Nothing that was done in Halo 4 or 5 felt innovative. It felt like they were taking Halo and just adding popular mechanics from other games and adding it to Halo to attract fans from other games to try and sell more copies. It didn’t work and it’s why the games never lasted more than a few years. People are still playing Halo 1, 2, and 3 to this day because the mechanics were so good and the skill level was incredible. But more importantly, it was fun for everyone. I think those games hit a perfect balance of being able to be fun and challenging for anyone but also extremely competitive for the hardcore fans. I don’t think Halo 4 met that balance at all. Halo 4 was way too casual and the population vanished in months. Halo 5 focused way too much on e-sports but some how simultaneously made a game that the e-sports community did not love.

343 needs to make a Halo game that has a lot of content at launch, has really good mechanics that don’t feel tacked on, good maps and less of the forge mode eye sores, and just the overall magic touch that Halo 1-3 has. I am a proponent of removing sprint and other movement options not because I think those are inherently bad, but because I don’t think that the addition of those abilities are thoughtful additions that actually improve the game. So I would just hope that 343 makes a game in Infinite where everything about the game has a reason that serves to make the game better.
 
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