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Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,605
One of the main themes of the game is going around the country to isolated pockets of people who hate/fear people who are different from them and "establishing connections" with them. It really does feel like a poorly-thought-out "if you want the Nazi to stop being a Nazi, just hug the Nazi" argument thus far.

Maybe he's going to swerve it, but the way it's presented right now is very naive and stupid.

It does have the terrorist faction that seems to embrace the state of the world, so I would expect a certain amount of "Well, you have to punch these guys".
 

PancakeFlip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,923
Respectfully fully disagree. There is plenty of documentation about the horrendous xenophobic and misogynistic problems of Japan
I have a friend who moved over there about 6 years ago that I talk to yearly over the phone about how social issues are going over there, he doesn't ever seem to imply its anything like in the US where Trump is basically a flaming match to terrorist.
 
OP
OP
vestan

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,630
good point. i hate trump as much as the next guy but this statement from him seems to be just wanting to pander to the sensibilities of his western fans, he probably has things that can inspire him happening in his own country.
More people worldwide are familiar with the actions of Trump and the United States Government than the actions of Abe and the Japanese Government. He wants this to be a story that people can connect around the world instead of just Japanese people so setting the game in a familiar setting like the United States only post-apocalyptic makes perfect sense. It's like the MGS games in that regard if you think about it.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,670
It does have the terrorist faction that seems to embrace the state of the world, so I would expect a certain amount of "Well, you have to punch these guys".

Yeah, it basically sounds like skull mask's faction is the main villains, but the way things are worded makes it sound like there are other pockets of non-Skull Masky assholes throughout the world that you have to "bring back into the fold" by connecting the strands to them.
 

Giga Man

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,225
I'm not interested in playing the game, but learning about Kojima and the themes of his games has always been fascinating to me. I hope it's a success.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,984
...? That has to do with everything. His country is everything Trump's America is. Abe is a proto-fascist. They're glad they have the ocean as a wall.

So Kojima should make a game set in modern or post-apocalyptic Japan criticizing local Japanese politics and then sell that game to audiences in the West? I'm sure that will sell like hotcakes.

Or could he perhaps make a game set in the West, one of the biggest audiences, that uses its themes and politics to espouse a message that can be applied universally? You know, like every MGS.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
More people are familiar with Trump and the United States Government than Abe and the Japanese Government. He wants this to be a story that people can connect to worldwide so setting the game in a familiar setting like the United States only post-apocalyptic makes perfect sense.
Probably because it will be easier to understand for western fans. What happens in Japan isn't very widely known
or maybe he knows its happening all over the world but knows that the us is one of the most visible countries that its happening to so he decided to make the game about the us considering how important the us is as a country that influences the rest of the world
good point, i didn't think about it that way
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,431
I am neither Japanese or American, so it might have been a misunderstanding. It's not at ALL a defensive comment about America, my point was simply no need to look on the other side of the world when the same things happens where is lives. Charity starts at home. What I found upsetting is that referring to Trump is really an easy go-to and very hypocritical when coming from a Japanese.

The game takes place in America, and for the sake of an interview, citing two obvious examples that have dominated the last 3 years of discourse to ground your narrative in a way that people understand, makes sense. Again - the US government was shut down for over a month this year and the US president declared a state of emergency, because of the Wall in 2019. The UK is currently going through a similar financial crisis and is in jeopardy of voiding their historic Good Friday agreement by necessitating a hard border between Ireland/Northern Ireland in about 2 months.

Japan's historical wariness towards immigration is both less relevant and less immediate than either example provided, even if they serve as a preview of what we can expect from an aging population that isn't buffered by young immigrants.
 

Mobu

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
5,932
When you hate Kojima so much you go full "keep politics out of mah vidya!!"

"B-but Shinso Abe..."

y i k e s
 

gitrektali

Member
Feb 22, 2018
3,191
I still don't understand the "genre" bit, what does he mean when he says he's creating a new genre? Is it something lost in translation, or is he really hoping to create a new genre?
 
May 10, 2019
2,271
"So in Phantom Pain I started with a kind of experiment by starting linear. And once the world opens, the story fades in one way. Some Hideo Kojima fans were not happy that the story takes a back seat. But this was done very consciously."

I find this part about MGSV interesting since the story doesn't just take a back seat but comes crashing down half way through the game but still interesting to hear about it from him.
 

Ænima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,513
Portugal
"So in Phantom Pain I started with a kind of experiment by starting linear. And once the world opens, the story fades in one way. Some Hideo Kojima fans were not happy that the story takes a back seat. But this was done very consciously. This time was the biggest challenge and the biggest obstacle: It's an open world, but at the same time we do not want to reduce the importance of the story, so fans of Hideo Kojima games will not be disappointed."
This makes me happy as it was my only complain about MGSV. Good to see despite being an open world the story will not take a back seat.
 

Jawbreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
New York City
So in Phantom Pain I started with a kind of experiment by starting linear. And once the world opens, the story fades in one way. Some Hideo Kojima fans were not happy that the story takes a back seat. But this was done very consciously. This time was the biggest challenge and the biggest obstacle: It's an open world, but at the same time we do not want to reduce the importance of the story, so fans of Hideo Kojima games will not be disappointed.

This is really great to hear.
 

ActWan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,334
"So in Phantom Pain I started with a kind of experiment by starting linear. And once the world opens, the story fades in one way. Some Hideo Kojima fans were not happy that the story takes a back seat. But this was done very consciously."

I find this part about MGSV interesting since the story doesn't just take a back seat but comes crashing down half way through the game but still interesting to hear about it from him.
I like to hear it because it proves Kojima indeed tried to get us the feeling of a phantom pain and it wasn't all just Konami, the Konami situation just added a very small part to it with Mission 51 and Chapter 3 being cut but the game would have given the same general feeling either way and it was intentional.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,670
"So in Phantom Pain I started with a kind of experiment by starting linear. And once the world opens, the story fades in one way. Some Hideo Kojima fans were not happy that the story takes a back seat. But this was done very consciously."

I find this part about MGSV interesting since the story doesn't just take a back seat but comes crashing down half way through the game but still interesting to hear about it from him.

I mean, he's not wrong. The story starts out heavily featured and then disappears for huge chunks of the game while you do random, disconnected PMC missions and then you fight Sahelanthropus and VOCAL CHORD PARASITES happens.

The story EXPLODING is separate from the fact that they also heavily de-emphasize narrative and relegate most character development to optional cassette tapes for the majority of the experience.
 

N.47H.4N

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,096
So in Phantom Pain I started with a kind of experiment by starting linear. And once the world opens, the story fades in one way. Some Hideo Kojima fans were not happy that the story takes a back seat. But this was done very consciously. This time was the biggest challenge and the biggest obstacle: It's an open world, but at the same time we do not want to reduce the importance of the story, so fans of Hideo Kojima games will not be disappointed.
Good good,I hope you don't disappoint me again Kojima,even though Phatom Pain is my GOTY 2015 because of gameplay,the story was mehh.
But when it comes to me, I want to create something new.
You can not like him,but you sure would like has more game designers like him.

I can't wait to play this game,I hope he delivery a masterpiece,he deserves after what happened with Konami,would be a great come back and inspiring story.
 

Starwing

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 31, 2018
4,119
I still find the message of "just connect with people who hate you" so childish and foolish and naive that it doesn't feel like it came from Kojima. His themes are usually smarter than that, even the dumb ones.
That's what I unfortunately fear and expect, personally. But I am somewhat curious on how he approaches this reasoning or if he takes it in another direction.
 

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
So in Phantom Pain I started with a kind of experiment by starting linear. And once the world opens, the story fades in one way. Some Hideo Kojima fans were not happy that the story takes a back seat. But this was done very consciously. This time was the biggest challenge and the biggest obstacle: It's an open world, but at the same time we do not want to reduce the importance of the story, so fans of Hideo Kojima games will not be disappointed.

Thank you, Lord Kojima.
 

ActWan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,334
That's what I unfortunately fear and expect, personally. But I am somewhat curious on how he approaches this reasoning or if he takes it in another direction.
I still find the message of "just connect with people who hate you" so childish and foolish and naive that it doesn't feel like it came from Kojima. His themes are usually smarter than that, even the dumb ones.
eh, I took it like he presented it with the examples - basically stop being bigoted and secluding yourself from other folks, try to connect. No to nationalism
not "try to connect with people who hate you", more "stop hating and try to connect"
 

Deleted member 9317

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,451
New York
jswxMum.jpg
Man, this quote makes more sense as years go by and a lot of this that didn't make sense makes sense now. Weird as hell.
 
May 10, 2019
2,271
I like to hear it because it proves Kojima indeed tried to get us the feeling of a phantom pain and it wasn't all just Konami, the Konami situation just added a very small part to it with Mission 51 and Chapter 3 being cut but the game would have given the same general feeling either way and it was intentional.
I mean, he's not wrong. The story starts out heavily featured and then disappears for huge chunks of the game while you do random, disconnected PMC missions and then you fight Sahelanthropus and VOCAL CHORD PARASITES happens.

The story EXPLODING is separate from the fact that they also heavily de-emphasize narrative and relegate most character development to optional cassette tapes for the majority of the experience.

I'm in agreement with both of you but it makes me wonder what the end result would have been if he had the time and not the fallout with Konami.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
He keeps calling it a "social strand game" or a "strand game". It really doesn't have ANYWHERE close to the kind of ring to it that "tactical espionage action" did.

Aha. Thanks.

Tactical Espionage Walking :P

In short, TEW.

.... OMG! That's The Evil Within! The Isekai Survival Horror game. Kojima will troll us hard.



Thank you!

In short that's SSS! That's Devil May Cry's ranking system, which is a Demon Slaying Action Adventure game.

The plot thickens!!!
 

Jangowuzhere

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,505
I like to hear it because it proves Kojima indeed tried to get us the feeling of a phantom pain and it wasn't all just Konami, the Konami situation just added a very small part to it with Mission 51 and Chapter 3 being cut but the game would have given the same general feeling either way and it was intentional.
I'm not sure how you got that impression from that quote.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
Jesus honestly I hate reading interviews with Kojima, he just sounds like he's so full of himself.
 

AllMight1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,719
He must clearly know better about those matters since Japan is one of the most xenophobic countries in the world

First one to the phantom zone. Lol.


Im glad that he mentions story will be important because i was one of those kojima fans dissapointed with the story part of phantom pain. Still top notch gameplay tho, and it will be the same in DS.
 

benzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,261
Yessssss
"So in Phantom Pain I started with a kind of experiment by starting linear. And once the world opens, the story fades in one way. Some Hideo Kojima fans were not happy that the story takes a back seat. But this was done very consciously. This time was the biggest challenge and the biggest obstacle: It's an open world, but at the same time we do not want to reduce the importance of the story, so fans of Hideo Kojima games will not be disappointed."​
 

ActWan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,334
I'm not sure how you got that impression from that quote.
"Some Hideo Kojima fans were not happy that the story takes a back seat. But this was done very consciously." Just sounds to me like exactly why the game's story being the way it is and making us feel a real "phantom pain" was "done very consciously".
 

Deleted member 2229

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
Jesus honestly I hate reading interviews with Kojima, he just sounds like he's so full of himself.
Because he pointed out that he wants his games to have themes that reflect the world around us and make something new?

Criticizing the man for how well he executes on those ideas is one thing but complaining that he's "full of himself" for this? Comes off as having a weird displeasure for the man for no actual reason.
 

Dabi3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,552
So in Phantom Pain I started with a kind of experiment by starting linear. And once the world opens, the story fades in one way. Some Hideo Kojima fans were not happy that the story takes a back seat. But this was done very consciously. This time was the biggest challenge and the biggest obstacle: It's an open world, but at the same time we do not want to reduce the importance of the story, so fans of Hideo Kojima games will not be disappointed.

Music to my ears
 

Starwing

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 31, 2018
4,119
eh, I took it like he presented it with the examples - basically stop being bigoted and secluding yourself from other folks, try to connect. No to nationalism
not "try to connect with people who hate you", more "stop hating and try to connect"
That's what I'm hoping to see.
 

VPplaya

Member
Nov 20, 2018
1,967
I too hate the whole "keep politics outta my vidyagames/other media" shit. Media has always been politically charged.

A great example of him actually being pretentious is that he already has a name for the new genre he has created.
 

Valcrist

Tic-Tac-Toe Champion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,703
Jesus honestly I hate reading interviews with Kojima, he just sounds like he's so full of himself.
He probably is. He has figures of himself. I guess I don't really mind. I love plenty of actors that give the vibe that they love themselves a little too much. Same for people I know, I guess.