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5+ people ran over in downtown Manhattan
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Right wing media is pushing a narrative that the "mainstream media" is refusing to say that he yelled, "Allah Akbar!"
It's in the NY Times article I read earlier too. What a bunch of nonsense. Some of us are concerned with the truth and the way things are. FOX News and its ilk are horrendous. Makes me so helpless and angry sometimes :/.
We should stop this "terrorism/non-terrorism" controversy about mass killing without political motives by saying that a non-terrorist attack can be as bad and disgusting as a terrorist attack.
We should also acknowledge that it's true that a lot of medias will tend to humanize you more if you're white/you're victims ain't whites.
But yeah, this is a terrorist attack and Vegas wasn't (as far as we know, no political motive for Vegas).
We should also acknowledge that it's true that a lot of medias will tend to humanize you more if you're white/you're victims ain't whites.
But yeah, this is a terrorist attack and Vegas wasn't (as far as we know, no political motive for Vegas).
This trend of using vehicles as a deadly weapon is getting scary, especially in metropolitan cities. Rest in Peace to the victims, hope NYC reset is ok.
AFAIK he did not know his victims. I feel like you're playing semantics. Before Orlando this was the largest mass shooting incident in this country and no one thought it was terrorism. You explicitly said a non-white would be automatically labeled a terrorist which is not the case. Most of the time with Islamic terror it is labeled what it is because the perpetrator makes a point of being unambiguous with the political nature of their crime and its ties to their interpretation of their faith, however jacked up that interpretation might be.
It's a crazy world. The police are all over the street he supposedly lives on in New Jersey. I only found out about it when I saw sirens all over place and helicopters were around the area for about an hour or so.
I noticed Trump tweeted very quickly unlike the Charlottesville and Vegas killings.
On topic, really sucks to hear the news. My prayers goes out to the families.
I work downtown (Battery Park / Tribeca area). A few blocks north of where the idiot did his damage.
Admittedly I wouldn't have noticed any of it if it weren't for the announcement over my office's PA and the push messages.
I'm now in a cab heading home, and I'm strangely happy I'm stuck in a colossal traffic jam resulting from the Village's Halloween parade. Glad NYC has a knack for never being phased by this stuff.
Admittedly I wouldn't have noticed any of it if it weren't for the announcement over my office's PA and the push messages.
I'm now in a cab heading home, and I'm strangely happy I'm stuck in a colossal traffic jam resulting from the Village's Halloween parade. Glad NYC has a knack for never being phased by this stuff.
This idea that only brown people are called terrorists is simply not true. Sure people just assume it's terrorism if the person is a Muslim. It could be the person just cracked and just starting killing people. But seeing as there are countries, religious groups, and sects out by there encouraging and supporting these acts it's hard to not make that be association. Especially considering how easy it is for people to get connected with them online.
America had no problem calling Ted Kaczynski and Timothy McVey Terrorists. They were both white. But they had a clear political agenda. The IRA was labeled a terrorists organization as well. That clear purpose is what separates them from the other mass shootings in the US.
So trying to compare Columbine, Sandusky, and other acts of random violence with terrorism just doesn't work. I don't understand the need to try to create false equivalency. Does calling the asshole who shot up Vegas a terrorist make any difference for those who are Muslim terrorists? It's almost like people are taking it personally and saying "Oh my people are terrorists. Well your people are terrorists!". In some bizarre way to try to be more inclusive.
Dylann Roof on the other hand is a bit more complicated. We already have a label for him racist, white supremacist, and murderer. So when I read online that people we're saying he should be labeled a terrorist my reflex was to argue against that. But after thinking about it, he is without a doubt a terrorist. I'd even argue that he is part of one of the most successful terrorist organizations ever in this country. And that's something that we as a country need to address.
Now to bring this back to the original conversation, when seeing the picture of the perpetrator of this horrible act in New York it's hard for me not to jump to the conclusion of terrorism. Just as seeing a picture of a white shooter of a black church makes me immediately think racist. These are the unfortunate contexts that exist in our world.
But I want to make clear that it would be absolute stupidity to make the logical leap that these people represent the larger group as a whole.
America had no problem calling Ted Kaczynski and Timothy McVey Terrorists. They were both white. But they had a clear political agenda. The IRA was labeled a terrorists organization as well. That clear purpose is what separates them from the other mass shootings in the US.
So trying to compare Columbine, Sandusky, and other acts of random violence with terrorism just doesn't work. I don't understand the need to try to create false equivalency. Does calling the asshole who shot up Vegas a terrorist make any difference for those who are Muslim terrorists? It's almost like people are taking it personally and saying "Oh my people are terrorists. Well your people are terrorists!". In some bizarre way to try to be more inclusive.
Dylann Roof on the other hand is a bit more complicated. We already have a label for him racist, white supremacist, and murderer. So when I read online that people we're saying he should be labeled a terrorist my reflex was to argue against that. But after thinking about it, he is without a doubt a terrorist. I'd even argue that he is part of one of the most successful terrorist organizations ever in this country. And that's something that we as a country need to address.
Now to bring this back to the original conversation, when seeing the picture of the perpetrator of this horrible act in New York it's hard for me not to jump to the conclusion of terrorism. Just as seeing a picture of a white shooter of a black church makes me immediately think racist. These are the unfortunate contexts that exist in our world.
But I want to make clear that it would be absolute stupidity to make the logical leap that these people represent the larger group as a whole.
Just want to point out that your analogy doesn't quite make sense. I'll let you figure out why.
I disagree with everything in your post save for the line about remembering the victims. Did I miss where it was said the guy turned "at a drop of a hat"?
I'm unsure how to respond to you assuming (actually not even assuming, but declaring) he "ironically" yelled Allahu Ackbar because "it's the cool thing for terrorists to do these days and that he just wanted attention".
I find those statements absolutely absurd and, frankly, I'm at a loss of words right now.
The guy left a note in the truck saying he did it for ISIS, by the way.
I said that I didn't think of Roof as a terrorist because of the other labels associated with him and his kind. I also said I now understand that he is.
"Brown boy bomber" Really? If I made this comment about some random person on the street then okay. But we're talking about a guy who ran over and killed people on a bike path.
Which is why I added my last statement. I think it's completely stupid to somehow say that he represents Muslims.
But this is not about proportions. Nor is it a comparison of severity.
Night_knight: Thanks for the clarification for the first part and the context for "ironically". Makes more sense.
TrueReligion: Correct me if I'm wrong but the Tsarnaev brothers weren't "brown", either, and they were radicalized. I believe the older one even visited a foreign country or city that was an ISIS hotbed at the time, as well. I've forgotten the exact details.
TrueReligion: Correct me if I'm wrong but the Tsarnaev brothers weren't "brown", either, and they were radicalized. I believe the older one even visited a foreign country or city that was an ISIS hotbed at the time, as well. I've forgotten the exact details.
The whole idea that white people are never charged with terrorism is an odd one that I've only seen on here and old gaf. Besides the obvious Ted Kaczynski and Timothy McVey, just this year a white nationalist was charged with terrorism in NYC.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...te-man-accused-hunting-down-black-men-n739146
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...te-man-accused-hunting-down-black-men-n739146
Yeah, you might be a millennial if..... No, the world is a lot worse than in the past. It's actually opposite of safer. Believe me. We didn't have anything like this constantly. We didn't have drug issues like we do today, we didn't have murders going on as often as the records being set in the inner city. We had problems in the past, but not like we do today and not like anything that is coming up.
When I was a kid I didn't have to worry about Trump or World War 3.
I'm with the others on this saying terrorism is something more specific . Kazyncky and Timothy were labeled as such . Dont really think it's terrorism without the political / religious / ideological agenda behind it .
Terrorism is using terror to advance that . terrorists are bad wackjob mass murderers are bad . You can e two different types of horrible Ppl etc .
Terrorism is using terror to advance that . terrorists are bad wackjob mass murderers are bad . You can e two different types of horrible Ppl etc .
It's not that they're not charged but that right leaning people don't call those people terrorists. They're the first to start calling others terrorists but never their own.The whole idea that white people are never charged with terrorism is an odd one that I've only seen on here and old gaf. Besides the obvious Ted Kaczynski and Timothy McVey, just this year a white nationalist was charged with terrorism in NYC.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...te-man-accused-hunting-down-black-men-n739146
Some of my students were on lockdown at Stuy after this. What a horrible individual who did this.
Glad to see the Halloween Parade went on as planned though. If we change the way we act then assholes like this have won. There were more people at the parade today than last year!
Glad to see the Halloween Parade went on as planned though. If we change the way we act then assholes like this have won. There were more people at the parade today than last year!
Where did you grow up? I grew up in th 80s in Washington heights and the south Bronx. Things are much better now.
The crack epidemic was just as bad if not worse than opioid crisis.
There were crack vials on streets, constant shoots out, crack infested buildings etc etc
My window was shot up as a kid, my neighbor was killed right in front of my door step. Not to mention we were still in the Cold War with the Soviet Union, just take a look at all the wwiii movies that came out in the 80s lol. Remember the constant plane hijackings? Car bombings? Hostage takings?
Lol don't remember how NYC was in the 70's and 80's?
Things look bad now because we have never been this connected before. I can guarantee you that you'd be panicking a lot more if we had the Internet 40 years ago.
"God is great and he wants me to kill a bunch of innocent people!"
I'll never understand how a human being can think this is ok. It's such an oxymoron. If god exists and he truly is as benevolent as his followers profess... I'd imagine you'd be burning in hell for committing such an act in his name.
I'll never understand how a human being can think this is ok. It's such an oxymoron. If god exists and he truly is as benevolent as his followers profess... I'd imagine you'd be burning in hell for committing such an act in his name.
And plenty of other things but I suppose now is not the time to get into all that. I'm just trying to express my sadness and anger in the most polite way I can.
I don't think that's how they rationalize it. The people aren't innocent in their minds.
This attack seems to be the product the decisions of a person with an ideology.
You're right, I doubt there was anything rational going through his mind.
Ironically your post reads like millenial feelings vs facts.
It also reads very white ie you don't remember the crimes of the past cause they were largely affecting inner city minorities and not suburban middle American white people.*
*Unless they travelled to a place like NYC and got caught up in something.
Who's the "We" in your statement?
Do we actually know the truth? Everytime something like this happens one of the first things speculated is "ISIS/Al-Qaeda did it"
When I was a kid, the world was worrying that IT COULD LITERALLY BLOW UP ANY SECOND. That was the basic state of existence from the 1940s to the early 1990s. When exactly were you a kid?
Man, you go to New York with some old friends to celebrate a school reunion and this happens...shit is fucked up. RIP to the victims.
Yup.
Cold War? Cuban Missile Crisis? People used to be fucking terrified of nuclear armageddon, school kids used to practice emergency drills in case of nuclear missile attacks, there are schools that were built that were literally underground nuclear bunkers.
The western world is undeniably safer now than it used to be, the only reason it doesn't feel that way is the ubiquity of social media and the 24/7 news cycle means it's rammed down your throat every day.
Yup.
Cold War? Cuban Missile Crisis? People used to be fucking terrified of nuclear armageddon, school kids used to practice emergency drills in case of nuclear missile attacks, there are schools that were built that were literally underground nuclear bunkers.
The western world is undeniably safer now than it used to be, the only reason it doesn't feel that way is the ubiquity of social media and the 24/7 news cycle means it's rammed down your throat every day.
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