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8 Labour MP's quit party in protest of Leadership, Brexit and anti-semitism (update: 3 Conservative MPs quit to join Independent Group)
- Thread starter Thornton Reed
- Start date
Colonel Getafe
You are going to have to substantiate the parts about Jewdas
1. Where they said the criticisms of Corbyn only came from Conservatives
2. Where they called Jews "non-Jews"
You seem to bring them up because they are anti-capitalist and anti-Israel. Do you accept that neither of those positions is anti-semetic?
You are going to have to substantiate the parts about Jewdas
1. Where they said the criticisms of Corbyn only came from Conservatives
2. Where they called Jews "non-Jews"
You seem to bring them up because they are anti-capitalist and anti-Israel. Do you accept that neither of those positions is anti-semetic?
Yeah it's just appalling. So many people only care about racism when they can use it as a stick to beat the left with. The Labour left need to do much better obviously, but I've never seen a shred of evidence to show the problem is worse in Labour than it is anywhere else so the massive disparity in the coverage and scrutiny those on the left get compared with everyone else is inexcusable. BBC is massively guilty of it too, in the past day having white guests on the daily politics show explaining to the single person of colour on the panel how what Angela Smith said isn't racist. Just completely handwaving her casual racism. She 'misspoke' so it's fine apparently. And you could do a phd on the treatment of Diane Abbott and what that shows about racism and misogyny in Britain (Fiona Bruce is a disgrace. QT should just be cancelled at this point). Being on the left can be hard enough, but when you're a person of colour (and a woman) as well the level of abuse you're bound to get and which is then blithely dismissed by people who otherwise claim to care, is truly terrifying. Similar too in the way left wing Jewish activists are frequently treated - Angela Smith was guilty of that last year when she exposed her own anti-semitism by attacking Corbyn for meeting with Jewdas. She got away with that of course.
Antisemitism stuff for me anyways, seems to be highlighted way more in the news than racism in political parties. Probably due to most of them being right leaning I guess? So they don't want to highlight the racist shit the Tories do. Like the "Tinge" shit didn't seem to be called out by a hell of a lot of people.
Both need to be dealt with badly, but neither should be overlooked for the other it should be equal. I guess because I am not really alligned to a party it makes me easier to call out shit.
Labour have a antisemitism problem how big a problem I wouldn't know.
All parties have racism problems especially the Tories. Which feeds into the racism in the UK. Racist very much feel empowered by how thia country is run and I don't just mean politics.
Dems have a support problem.
The new group to me don't seem genuine and I think they are sus. Even if I can see why Berger resigned.
It all leads me to having to vote for the lesser of evils. Instead of actually agreeing with one party nearly completely.
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He went to see jewdas to stick to fingers up to mainstream British Jewry. They are a radical, politically extreme group, and going to their Seder as his 'apology' was a complete piss take, akin to going to see the black Israelites to show you're not racist towards BAME.
85% of British Jews are Zionists.
The others you can Google, I've already spent 45 minutes writing up the rest for it to be handwaved away.
I didn't think of the short money issue, they need to decide what they are, it's not good enough for elected members of Parliament to behave like a private club.
The strategy to replace the SNP as the third party kinda requires you to be a party.
The Angela Smith shit is disgusting so many people that call other stuff out calling it a slip of the tongue etc. I do have to say I have all but given up on white people owning up and being less racist or even excusing racism.
Fuckin, this. She let the mask slip.
Racism is endemic in this country.
I got my stats wrong, it's actually 90% for those who support Israel, 59% for those who self identify as Zionists if you don't accept that Zionism is the policy for a Jewish home state.
https://fullfact.org/news/are-majority-british-jews-zionists/
It's 85% of Jews who think Corbyn is a racist.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/...s-think-jeremy-corbyn-is-antisemitic-1.469654
Bottom line being, Jewdas are not representative of anything but Corbyn.
It is if you're a racist. Otherwise they're just normal Jews who support Israel's right to exist.
It's just a pity that Israel's right to exist supersedes the rights of the people that were already living there.
It absolutely isn't.
To be against Zionism is to be racist? Fuck Israel.
If you think 90% of Jews thinking they have a right to a homeland is troubling, then yes, you are a racist.
Ahhh this shit again
Just say you're anti Palestine and move tf on
If they're alright with what's happening in Israel then they can go fuck themselves.
Otherwise I haven't got a problem.
Israel at its current state, shouldn't exist, it's an apartheid state built with the blood of Palestinians.
Fucking terrorists.
I believe at the time of the Jewdas Seder the official position of the Board of Deputies was they were not willing to meet Corbyn.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...jennie-formby-action-plan-party-a8277816.html
i'm willing to bet that I've been to more pro-palestine action as a Labour party member in my adult life than any of you. Unfortunately I haven't quite managed to stomach the vitriolic racism directed towards Jews because of the actions of the heinous Israeli government that is ever present in sections of pro-Palestinian solidarity, and my sympathies extend outside of Israel. For instance, I have enormous problems with Assad keeping them in concentration camps, yet I very rarely see anyone else on here bring that up.
Israel exists and has a right to continue to exist.
Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state is a problem.
59% identified as Zionists. 41% didn't, of which 75% of that 41% support the right for Israel to exist "as a Jewish state".
Why do you want to eradicate an entire people who were there first? Racist.
I don't. Like the Labour party, I believe in a 2 state solution. The fact that you're willing to instantly accuse me of being a genocidal racist is half of the problem. You can support Israel's right to exist and the Palestinian right to statehood. Ed Miliband did it, Corbyn supposedly does to.
The fact that you can't see past yourself and see the irony of this statement is pathetic. There is no two state solution give them their fucking land back.
Corbyn believes the same. You can shove your personal abuse.
Why? I'm being personally attacked for believing in Israel's right to exist, Corbyn has publicly professed the same. Just goes to show that actually most of you don't give a shit, it's just about being vicious on the internet.
You made it about you personally and started calling everyone a racist.
The same Jewish Chronicle / Survation poll found that 68% of respondents didn't know if they thought Gerard Batten; the UKIP leader that brought Tommy Robinson into the party, was an anti-semite or not.
https://view.publitas.com/the-jewish-chronicle/jc-survation-poll-labour-antisemitism-part-2/page/1
I don't mean to dismiss your point that Corbyn has stuff to answer for but it doesn't seem like a great poll to draw inferences from unfortunately.
If you deny self determination to Jews, you are a racist. It really is as simple as that. If the idea of the vast majority of Jews wanting self determination troubles you, you are a racist. This is not incompatible with support for Palestine, and I know this, because the bulk of people at a pro-Palestine event support that view.
Eliminating the state of Israel is an extreme view that only really holds muster in small pockets of certain groups. Unfortunately most of these people have coalsced into the Labour party, because of Corbyn's history of associating with antisemites, which has been completely handwaved away by so many of the concerned posters in here.
If there could be a two state solution it would have happened by now. Instead Israel would rather shell camps with children and snipe teens with rocks who want nothing more than to live on their lands that belong to them. You are the racist and it's disgusting that you wrap yourself in righteousness to further denigrate and spit upon already downtrodden and abused people.
I am not a racist. I am pro-Palestinian. I'm just not anti-Jew. I have put personal time and energy into Pro-Palestine activity, in person. Have you, or do you just abuse people on forums?
Normal people reading this will easily see who is the racist.
The 'Corbyn is responsible for racism' meme is such bullshit and has to die. Also:
You're telling on yourself. I don't think that any ethnostate is acceptable. Nobody on the left does. We're not singling out Israel for wanting to be an ethnostate. If you think anti-zionism is anti-semitism, you're simply wrong.
What a way to phrase your hate. It allmost makes you not sound cruel but not quite.
There are many Jews who are anti-Zionist. Equating anti-Zionism with anti-semitism is pure idiocy.
The idea that it is a Jewish state is what needs to be eliminated. The State of Israel exists. There is no scenario where it doesn't.
Exactly.
The problem I have with people who have similar talking points is that they somehow equate both nations as if they're at an equal level in terms of power.
Only ones fucking up this "2 state solution" are Israel themselves, it's almost like they don't want a fucking 2 state solution.
How many? Because I've just linked you to a study that shows that 90% of them (british) are zionists to the degree that they support the state of Israel's right to exist, and 60% of them who outright are Zionists.
Antizionism does bleed into antisemitism, because the vast majority of Jews are zionists of some description. Hence you end up in perverse situations where the leader of the Labour party associates with blood libellers, holocaust deniers and convicted anti-semites, as thoroughly demonstrated in the post you're all ignoring.
The Chakrabatti report recommended that 'Zios' be a banned slur in the Labour party. That was Corbyn, too.
What this boils down to is that far too many of you think it's fair game to attack Jews if they are zionists, and the vast, vast majority of them are.
Like, doesn't saying you were tired basically admit that you are actually racist, but your fake non-racist veneer slipped because you didn't have the energy to keep it up?
Weird
Weird
The Angela Smith "funny tinge" comment and lack of reaction to it couldn't be a more perfect example of the double standard applied in our media.
Kay Burley giving her an out before she's even finished the question by saying "well we know you misspoke" and then letting her claim she blurted out her racist comment because she was "very tired" without any follow up. It's truly incredible to watch.
Kay Burley giving her an out before she's even finished the question by saying "well we know you misspoke" and then letting her claim she blurted out her racist comment because she was "very tired" without any follow up. It's truly incredible to watch.
Wow. You are openly doing the anti-zionism = anti-semitism argument. Being against an ethnostate is not racist!
All of this drivel to repeat anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism.
Your argument is this. "59% of Jews identify as Zionists. 90% of UK Jews support the idea that Israel should be a state. Thus, any criticism for Zionism as as a political and nationalist movement must be anti-Semitic in nature or it will inevitably lead to instances of anti-Semitism".
Not being critical of Zionism has contributed to the current situation in Palestine/Israel.
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I think 90% supporting Israel, if that refers to the actions of the Israeli government, is troubling. I think given the history of persecution of Jewish people that a Jewish homeland is pretty fucking reasonable. I think displacing people to create that Jewish homeland is wrong. I think creating an apartheid state is wrong. I think the Zionist belief that Jewish people have some god-given right to that land at the expense of non-jews already living there is wrong. I think that Israel has as much right to exist as any other country.
A 2 state solution isn't even feasible anymore, thanks to the Israeli government. Please tell us how you would divide up the fractured remnants of the West Bank and Gaza into a state.
Absolutely this. The only steady employment for most Palestinians is for those fortunate to be able to cross the border for work in Israel. I used to believe in two nations, two states, but now I honestly think the only real solution is for Israel to accept the Palestinians and there to be truth a reconciliation in a single state.
Fuck Tom Bower, he's a crank and you don't go round calling people self hating Jews at a bare minimum. It's exactly the sort of low level shit that the Corbyn lot do routinely and rank hypocrisy to say otherwise.
It's because of people like him that people like me have such a hard time even trying to make people see sense around this.
That slur is absolutely at the core of the anti-Semitism = anti-zionism argument. You can't honestly make that argument without also slurring anti-zionist Jews as self hating. It's why equating anti-zionism and anti-semitism is clearly bullshit.