720p to 1080p more noticeable than 1080p to 4k on a TV?

[AppleBlade]

Does anyone else feel like the difference between 720p and 1080p is a lot more noticeable than the difference between 1080p and 4k on a television (I think the proximity to a PC monitor changes the equation a bit)?

For example Darksiders: Warmastered edition on Switch has a 1080p mode and a 60fps mode (which actually renders slightly higher than 720p). The difference is obviously noticeable. However on my PS4 pro the difference between performance modes and resolutions modes in various games is a lot less noticeable than this even when the jump is from 1080p to 4k.

Does anyone else agree with me or am I just weird?

 

[starblue]

Totally agree !

The jump from HD ready to Full HD was more noticeable than Full HD to 4K

imho, the real upgrade is the HDR, specially if you have a good TV like LG C9,CX or Samsung QLED

 

[liquidmetal14]

You could argue this due the scaling but to be clear, I notice a difference even going from 1080 to 1440. But at that low a resolution you notice more of the "imperfection" of a resolution that would be stunning for the Sega Genesis/SNES but not as flattering for modern games which are being made and played to run at high resolutions AND on giant displays.

 

[rntongo]

That was what a lot of people used to say before 1080p content was ubiquitous. That the difference between 720p and 1080p wasn't that huge.
A few years from now people won't be able to stomach anything below 4K.

 

[Feral Gingy]

I guess it depends on the viewing distance and screen size.

 

[th1nk]

The jump from 1080p to 4k HDR, though... 👌

I had an 1080p OLED and switched to a 4k HDR OLED a few years ago, the difference is still stunning, even though the 1080p OLED was unbelievably good when I got it.

 

[Ferrs]

Nope for me.

 

[nsilvias]

4k is a multiple of 1080p so it scales well

 

[EinBear]

Diminishing returns are definitely real when it comes to resolution.

SD to 720p was more noticeable than 720p to 1080p, which in turn was more noticeable than 1080p to 4K.

The bumps in IQ are still nice, but it's not the mind blowing, night and day difference it used to be.

 

[arrado]

The PS4 Pro renders almost never in native 4K, it's usually 1440p upscaled. So you are not getting the full 4K experience yet

 

[nib95]

I think 720p to 1080p is definitely more noticeable than 1080p to 4K on my 4K 55" and 65" OLEDs, just as I thought SD to 720p was more noticeable too, but I suppose it all depends on viewing distance, TV size etc. I do think the closer to 4K you get, the more diminishing returns there are, and that 8K is utterly pointless.

 

[infinityBCRT]

I think it's true. At the same time I can notice a difference between 1080p and 4K games...

How well you notice it depends on:
- Viewing distance to TV/Size of TV
- How good your eye sight is
- The game's rendering solution. If the game uses a high quality TAA, and doesn't have dithering or other half/quarter res effects, the difference between 1080p and 4k for that game is going to be smaller than a game which doesn't have as clean IQ

Also keep in mind that the PS4 Pro usually isn't hitting native 4K, many games are 1440p and/or using checkerboard rendering or other sort of upscaling which can soften the output.

 

[Jawmuncher]

You can tell the different between 1080P and Full 4K.
But yeah, the jump isn't as impactful as 720P was to 1080P.

 

[Hatebringer]

The upgrade from my 720p plasma to 1080p LED wasn't as noticable as my most recent upgrade to a 4K HDR OLED.

 

[Deleted member 15973]

How are you comparing this?

 

[ghostcrew]

However on my PS4 pro the difference between performance modes and resolutions modes in various games is a lot less noticeable than this even when the jump is from 1080p to 4k.

Click to shrink...

What actual 4k games are you playing on your PS4 Pro? Most are upscaled/checkerboarded from a lower resolution.

I do think the difference is larger 720p to 1080p (also helps that 4k is a clear multiple of 1080p so it scales better) but I wouldn't use Resolution Modes on a PS4 Pro as any kind of yard stick for native 4k. You're very rarely seeing it.

 

[Paertan]

Depends on screen size of course but yes. And we will see less and less difference as resolution increases. The jump to 8k will be less noticeable on a regular TV unless you literary cover a wall.

 

[Soap]

It is. 720p just looks awful, but 1080p is mostly good enough. For me the big change is HDR. Watching Our Planet the 4K is appreciated, but it is the vivid colours of nature that really blow me away.

 

[Khanimus]

I'm going from a 50" 1080p Plasma to getting a 65" 4K OLED with HDR which will be delivered Saturday. I'll let ya know.

 

[sosainas]

Depends on how your TV scales certain content, also the size. For example my C9 scales 1080p content extremely well while 720p content just looks awful.

But I had a cheap 4K TV where 720p and 1080p content looked almost the same.

 

[nanskee]

When I first got my Samsung KS8000 it was a pretty big nice leap from 1080p, but yeah i think 720 to 1080 might be bigger. The thing for me though, was how much brighter the 4k tv's are and the vibrant the colours are. The colours are a big deal

 

[KillLaCam]

Yeah. 720p to 1080 was mind blowing to me. 1080 to 4k looks good but wasn't a huge deal to me. HDR and stuff is more meaningful than the resolution jump

 

[Euler007]

Back in those days there were lots of people arguing that the difference between 720p and 1080p was unnoticeable in most situation for most people, and that the higher framerate at 720p was more beneficial.

 

[Edge]

You definitely have to sit 2m at max away from your 55-65° TV or it's too far to notice the advantages.

At 3,5m at the very back of my couch you can't really see a difference anymore, but that's natural. The pixels are too small and you're too far away, but, 1080p looks amazing at that range because it has the opposite effect.

 

[nadbmal]

Yeah that was my experience, especially with text and HUD elements, it's kinda fuzzy in 720p.
1080p i sometimes run accidentally on my 4K and i don't always notice.

 

[Dan]

It depends on the size of the TV, and viewing distance.

 

[Yes]

SD to 720p was more noticeable than 720p to 1080p, which in turn was more noticeable than 1080p to 4K.

Click to shrink...

I played my Xbox360 quite late on an "SD". Moved in with my GF who had a 720p TV. The jump was staggering. Felt like the future.

 

[HBK]

720p to 1080p isn't even that noticeable in the first place. There's a reason we need DF and the like to check the actual resolution between 720p/900p/1080p. It's visible sure, especially to the trained eye, but many people vastly overstate the difference. I still play some 720p~900p games on Switch on my big ass projector and it's far, far from unplayable, even if of course 1080p would be better all things being equal.

As for 1080p to 4K, it's almost lolworthy how some people tout it as the second coming of jeebus while the actual effect is much, much dimmer and only actually noticeable if you're in "monitor mode" close the the screen trying to see the pixels.

1080p is vastly enough for most applications. But I guess you won't sell many new TVs by telling the truth.

 

[karnage10]

I notice the resolution difference a lot, specially if you don't apply external AA.

I recommend people here to their a PC and go decrease/increase the resolution of a game and say they don't notice the difference.
On any game the higher the resolution the image will be much more clear AND you will see more stuff on screen.

for all of you that don't care about resolution you should buy a cheap PC and play the latest games at 720p on ultra which will be much cheaper and better looking than a console.

 

[Fliesen]

720p to 1080p is pretty noticeable.
900p to 1080p is kinda noticeable.
1080p to 4k is pretty noticeable.
1800p(or whatever) to 4k is (to me) barely noticeable. (it all looks 'beyond 1080p' to me, kinda)

Which is why i'm not all that worried about the PS5 gpu being slightly weaker than the Series X'

 

[Ocean]

This is known as diminishing returns, a concept that's well understood and accepted by everybody in the planet outside of hardcore gaming communities where there's still some folks who get scared by the idea.

 

[Detail]

1080p to 4k is hugely noticable to me, I can't go back to 1080p it looks blurry and smeared to my eyes in comparison.

 

[Xx 720]

When they first came out with 4K sets it didn't look much different to me, but now they look better as they have hdr and I'm on a bigger screen.

 

[KeRaSh]

I finally took my time and calibrated my LG CX's HDR settings according to some Era threads and while it does look pretty good, I still don't think it's this huge game changer that everyone claims it is. Maybe my expectations were just a lot higher because everyone leeps praising it to the heavens.

I do think that 1080p vs. 4K makes quite a difference. 720p vs. 1080p is a big difference as well but I can't say which one is the bigger leap.

 

[D.Lo]

The issue is the screen resolutions technologies keep changing, so comparisons are not life for like.

Using the native resolution of a screen will always look best.

Moving from 720 to 1080 on a 1080 screen didn't just mean upping the pixels, it meant removing non-integer scaling from the equation. And some games on PS360 were like 540p internal, output at 720p, THEN scaled to 1080 on your TV? Asking for trouble.

Now you have 4K screens, which are an integer scale of 1080p so should be able to display 1080 quite well, so have less of the scaling issues you'd get from 720 on a 1080p screen, so you lose that 'native to the screen' bonus you had in the last jump.

But apparently almost no screens do plain integer scaling of 1080, and apply algorithms that create some blur, because this is what most consumers prefer for their main designed usage (video content). So you have people calling 1080p 'blurry' when in reality that's just what their screen does to it. 1080p films looked insanely good on my late gen Panasonic Plasma.

 

[Alex840]

Depends how big your TV is.

Below 50', the jump from 720p to 1080p will be a more noticeable jump.

Above 50', 1080p to 4K will be more noticeable.

 

[digitalrelic]

1080p to 4K HDR is a much bigger leap IMO.

 

[Aether]

That was what a lot of people used to say before 1080p content was ubiquitous. That the difference between 720p and 1080p wasn't that huge.
A few years from now people won't be able to stomach anything below 4K.

Click to shrink...

Ähm... the people that said that to 720 partially still dont see the big difference between 720p and 1080. Just look up how many tv stations are still broadcasting in 720...

It depends on a lot of factors:
Eye sight, view distance, display size (and display tech...), contrast, if the room is bright or dark...
There are some subtle differences even if you dont see the resolution as distinct pixels (contrast perception,...), but overall most people wont realize half the time if a signal will be 1080 or 4k if you change the signal to their tv at a "reasonable viewing distance".

Its quite simple: Resolution of the eye is aproximately 1 arcmin (60 cpd), if your resolution aproximates 1.5 arcmin, you are golden. The eye physically cant resolve that high.
And depending on viewing distance, some already have that with their 1080p TV since they are sitting far away...

Im currently using a 4k 27" monitor. Not because it is that much better for gaming (only a switch and a 13" notebook), but because for programming with a distance of 2-3 feet i have a huge benefit.
80% of people here dont see de benefit at this size in 4k and advertize 1440@144 displays.
High resolution is importaint for still images and text (so, pc work). But how much of your gaming time are you looking at still images? not much.

Its the same with high quality audio:
shure, its technically better. And while the average person definitely can hear the difference between radio or a 128kb/s mp3 compared to a cd... with blind tests most people could not hear the difference between 192kb/s mp3s and cds.

For consumer displays, 4k is more or less the upper limit of what makes sense. Shure, you could buy a 75" TV, but how many really have the space for that? of a good projector in 4k, that you pay 3k$?
If you have a more reasonable 50" tv and are sitting 10 feet from it, for moving images...yeah, there wont be much difference.

To make the audio comparison:
<128kb/s doesnt sound great, but you get the gist. Usefull for special usecases (restricted signals, simple text recordings or jingles,... like old pixel games, or videos where you dont care for the visual quality but for the context. Like watching interviews/podcasts/etc on youtube on celular data @ 144p...)
I would say while 128kb/s mp3s are 720p, you can listen to it, its okay, great for background consumption.
1080 is 160 kb/s where it sounds good to great.
4k would be 192kb/s where most people are having a hard time discerning the difference if they are not focused on the details, and 8k would be 320kb/s mp3/FLAC. Something for true enthusiasts, but not nececarry in any way to appreciate the medium and the content.
(>8k would be "studio master tapes", since nobody needs that, except maybe huge projections...)

By the way: there is a reason why smartphone makers have gone back to making high end phones with 1080 screens... cheaper, use less energy (longer battery), and even tech enthusiast channels on youtube say "they dont really see a big difference".

 

[PucePikmin]

Most modern TVs have pretty advanced upscaling tech, which works particularly well for 1080p to 4K. So yeah, a lot of 1080p content still looks very good on a 4K TV. 720p is more of a stretch, so it often looks more noticeably iffy even with upscaling.

 

[rntongo]

Ähm... the people that said that to 720 partially still dont see the big difference between 720p and 1080. Just look up how many tv stations are still broadcasting in 720...

It depends on a lot of factors:
Eye sight, view distance, display size (and display tech...), contrast, if the room is bright or dark...
There are some subtle differences even if you dont see the resolution as distinct pixels (contrast perception,...), but overall most people wont realize half the time if a signal will be 1080 or 4k if you change the signal to their tv at a "reasonable viewing distance".

Its quite simple: Resolution of the eye is aproximately 1 arcmin (60 cpd), if your resolution aproximates 1.5 arcmin, you are golden. The eye physically cant resolve that high.
And depending on viewing distance, some already have that with their 1080p TV since they are sitting far away...

Im currently using a 4k 27" monitor. Not because it is that much better for gaming (only a switch and a 13" notebook), but because for programming with a distance of 2-3 feet i have a huge benefit.
80% of people here dont see de benefit at this size in 4k and advertize 1440@144 displays.
High resolution is importaint for still images and text (so, pc work). But how much of your gaming time are you looking at still images? not much.

Its the same with high quality audio:
shure, its technically better. And while the average person definitely can hear the difference between radio or a 128kb/s mp3 compared to a cd... with blind tests most people could not hear the difference between 192kb/s mp3s and cds.

For consumer displays, 4k is more or less the upper limit of what makes sense. Shure, you could buy a 75" TV, but how many really have the space for that? of a good projector in 4k, that you pay 3k$?
If you have a more reasonable 50" tv and are sitting 10 feet from it, for moving images...yeah, there wont be much difference.

To make the audio comparison:
<128kb/s doesnt sound great, but you get the gist. Usefull for special usecases (restricted signals, simple text recordings or jingles,... like old pixel games, or videos where you dont care for the visual quality but for the context. Like watching interviews/podcasts/etc on youtube on celular data @ 144p...)
I would say while 128kb/s mp3s are 720p, you can listen to it, its okay, great for background consumption.
1080 is 160 kb/s where it sounds good to great.
4k would be 192kb/s where most people are having a hard time discerning the difference if they are not focused on the details, and 8k would be 320kb/s mp3/FLAC. Something for true enthusiasts, but not nececarry in any way to appreciate the medium and the content.
(>8k would be "studio master tapes", since nobody needs that, except maybe huge projections...)

By the way: there is a reason why smartphone makers have gone back to making high end phones with 1080 screens... cheaper, use less energy (longer battery), and even tech enthusiast channels on youtube say "they dont really see a big difference".

Click to shrink...

I read everything you said but you got wrong is the part I bolded out. Our eyes can perceive the difference between higher resolutions much better than our ears can differentiate between higher bit rate sound. Our eyes are our highest bandwidth device. Without saying too much, the arguments for why 1080p isn't necessary or differences can't be seen is the same one being used with 4K. Once real 4K content becomes ubiquitous no one will want to use 1080p or 1440p displays except the high fps pc gamers. I also understand pushing 4K content is a power hog for current GPUs but with AI upscaling that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Aether]

I read everything you said but you got wrong is the part I bolded out. Our eyes can perceive the difference between higher resolutions much better than our ears can differentiate between higher bit rate sound. Our eyes are our highest bandwidth device. Without saying too much, the arguments for why 1080p isn't necessary or differences can't be seen is the same one being used with 4K. Once real 4K content becomes ubiquitous no one will want to use 1080p or 1440p displays except the high fps pc gamers.

Click to shrink...

Shure, i was oversimplyfying with this comparison.
But the comparison still stands: there is a point, where people dont see that much of a difference anymore. Following: rambling, just ignore it if you want ;)

And while i see 4k as an desirable upgrade, for most people, there are enough that haveviewing position where 4k will help less then lets say a display with better contrast/color acuracy.
You see enough people here that where not impressed by 4k, but with hdr instead (and in those cases the previous display was probably either bad calibrated or just worse in color reproduction ... just thinking how many used (and still use) TN or bad VA panels.)

I also understand pushing 4K content is a power hog for current GPUs but with AI upscaling that shouldn't be an issue.

Click to shrink...

Thats the Gamer Perspective. The content market is kinda barren with good 4k content.

Spoiler: spoiler

Hows 4k blue ray doing? Not so great. Were showing 4k masters in cinemas. Most of them.
Streaming is killing physical, and we need to compress the hell out of video to transport 4k over the internet. and just to use youtube as an example: it looks ofthen worse then a uncompressed 1080 file localy. So many artefacts, crushed colors. Watching a video with a lot of noicy effects/particles? puh, it can get ugly.

In the end: the jump from 1080 to 4k is still noticable, and if you are siting near or use a big display and have good sight the difference is definitely noticable...., but depending on other factors not for 80% of people like with 720 to 1080, but say 40-60% of people. (numbers are obviously not based on data)
Just looking at the sales data of 4k displays, the adaptation was waaay slower compared to 1080.

There is a space where people wont be against more, but will be satisfied with what they have. With audio, we are already past that point, with video we are getting there. (Classic, not talking about lightfield displays or increased color gamut displays, or posibility to display flourescent/metalic colors,...)

 

[blame space]

we've officially reached diminishing returns FOR REAL

like i know people said they thought nfl2k looked real or whatever, and digging those memories up is kinda fun in a nostalgic way, but this generation transition has made it clear that we've actually reached a point where what's new and better is so indistinguishable from what's old and busted that the average person, hell even the average gamer, would have to be explained the difference.

 

[alphacat]

1080p to 4k is hugely noticable to me, I can't go back to 1080p it looks blurry and smeared to my eyes in comparison.

Click to shrink...

ditto

 

[Hieroph]

we've officially reached diminishing returns FOR REAL

Click to shrink...

We've reached diminishing returns ages ago.

But diminishing doesn't mean no returns. There's still going to be a difference between 1080p and 4K once we get to games that make real use of the resolution bump. That's going to be gen 10 for consoles, or mid-gen 9 at best.

 

[Niosai]

I've always stood by 1080p-4K being completely indistinguishable unless you're sitting an inch from the screen. I have no experience with HDR, though. High refresh rates+4K+HDR+low latency is probably godlike, though.

 

[ss_lemonade]

1080p looks noticeably worse than native 4k content to me (and this is with me streaming 4k to my Shield TV via Nvidia gamestream).

 

[Gestault]

I've had conversations with people who played things like Overwatch and Ace Combat 7 on their Pro, and they were talking about how they barely see a difference in 4K, and I had to tell them that plenty of those games they had set to "4K" were actually running at 1080p.

There are very real diminishing returns as resolution increases, but I also think some of the claims from people that they don't see the benefits of 4K are due to things like the PS4 Pro generally being more of a 1440p machine, if not lower for some cases. The PS4 being far-and-away the most popular platform this gen made it more common for that kind of confusion with "4K" support on the Pro.

 

[Thardin]

I guess it depends on the viewing distance and screen size.

Click to shrink...

This is basically the only answer to this question any time resolution threads pop up.

Screen size and viewing distance will play a large role in your ability to perceive resolution changes.

The only thing I can really think to add is that 4K is relatively new in the gaming sphere and most games were still made with the base edition consoles in mind. I think this upcoming gen will start to push games with higher fidelity assets to the point that 4K looks noticeably better than 1080p regardless of the screen size/viewing distance argument.

 

[EvilBoris]

For games? Yeah it's a big difference. I don't like going backwards in resolution.

 

[tomsawing]

The PS4 Pro renders almost never in native 4K, it's usually 1440p upscaled. So you are not getting the full 4K experience yet

Click to shrink...

This is the answer. Even when it does 4K, it's often checkerboard 4K or native on an older game like Doom 3 where it looks great but obviously not modern. The reason "4K" doesn't look that impressive to a lot of people is that they aren't actually looking at 4K. It's a huge upgrade.