Wouldn't fight against that tbh, most MPs even those I agree with live in a completely different world to the rest of us.
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8 Labour MP's quit party in protest of Leadership, Brexit and anti-semitism (update: 3 Conservative MPs quit to join Independent Group)
- Thread starter Thornton Reed
- Start date
Definitely. I think he genuinely has respect across the aisles and being a former chancellor has some gravitas to lend - he'd be a great get of they could tempt him over.
Thinking about it, wouldn't it be better for those of us on the left if TINGE come out to be a truly centre/centre-right/neoliberal party? Because maybe they could draw some people away from the Tories?
Nah, Tories are like republicans voting for trump when push came to shove. They'll vote Tory even if they hate them because they hate everyone else more, especially when the opposition has a socialist.
I'm gonna stop ranting about it because I would nuke the country and start again after the last few years.
You're right about the Tories, the best way to split them is from the right, they will only lose some the other way when things are going really badly.
Name the policies
Provide confirmed (from multiple sources) evidence of the numbers who have died directly (and only) from each policy
Provide quotes/evidence that centralists support the policy and the consequences (intended and unintended) of each policy
Provide evidence that no left wing people support each policy
Provide evidence that policies supported by left wing people would not lead to a single death (intended or otherwise)
It kills me inside that the lord's has protected the country more than the commons. It's supposed to be the other way around. I want to abolish the lord's... But they've killed lots of foul shite recently. Argh
Aye mate, I'll get right on it. Leslie and Soubry etc already said they are pro austerity, Soubry said she won't change her voting pattern. And this was in a tweet earlier in the thread, briefly summarised by a journo.
Fuck off with your demands.
People are voting for austerity and then complaining that public services are stretched because of Polish people, If they can't even join the dots on that then I don't think it's clear to a lot of people at all.
I think a lot of that is wilful ignorance, to be honest. Like those stories you get about pensioners voting Leave then "not realising" their retirement abroad is under threat.
Whenever I hear anyone say "I didn't realise it meant..." I always mentally add "to me". A lot of people knew deep down what it meant but conned themselves that either it wouldn't affect them or were for more vague reasons, like saving money for public services.
Sure, there are genuine idiots who don't understand how these things work but I think as a whole we're a country that revels in ignorance so you just say any old shit and people will go for it cos it sounds good.
As terrible as Brexit will be, a lot of people (not all, mind) will have to face these issues. The likes of Johnson and Rees Mogg won't though.
It's just sad all around. I can't even get mad at it anymore, this is the way we'll always be
Well I hope you haven't posted claims without as many vigorous citations as you are asking for. That would surely look quite silly wouldn't it
Dude shows up trying to give me a homework assignment. Nah random internet dude not today not any day. Got him mixed up with another post but can't be arsed to fix it.
If that means he gets to go "aha I win" I really give no shits.
Who complains about foreign doctors?! Maybe the odd swipe of they're struggling to understand them (a not unreasonable concern) but was there a widespread desire to get rid of foreign doctors that I missed?
I think we'd be a lot better off if daily mail, express, etc. just went away somehow. They'd have to be caught in a news of the world type scandal, but we all know they'd get away with that today pretty easily (again).
The whole system has to be taken apart, the press and politicians are just incestuous at this point. Horrible, toxic influence and social media has just made it worse.
I mean, I'm not imagining the casual racist shit that exists and is also applied to doctors. I don't know how any reasonable person can look at what has occurred since the rise of ukip and conclude we do not have a racist problem. Doctors are not exempt from this.
From my experience there is obviously racists being racists towards foreign/BME doctors, as there is towards BME in general. There is a massive disconnect that a lot of people have with their brexit desires and realising what that means for the NHS.
Unsurprisingly it's foreign patients that are targeted more than anything which of course makes no sense other than racism. Hell, one of the higher paid admins in my practice moans all the time about foreign patients and we're a top university health service so her lovely salary is only possible because of said foreign patients paying ludicrous sums to come to our university
... and the inverse relation of EU funding to Leave voting indicates a persistent level of ignorance.
I do kind of wish we wouldn't demonise the entire 'press' and/or 'media' as a collective.
Are there problems with the state of journalism in the UK? Of course.
But there is also plenty of examples of brilliant, robust journalism in this country that has made the public aware of, for example, the dodgy dealings of the Leave campaign that led to Vote Leave being found guilty of breaking electoral law.
Sure but if you try to carve out the rotten parts, it becomes a mess and you're better off scrapping the whole thing. The examples are always exceptions, sadly.
Can't really argue with that...
...or that.
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I'm sure there's something that happens in everyone's lifetime of watching politics that makes that person just finally give up on the idea anything can change and politicans are full of shit. For me it was "big society" for others it will be this.
There was a study recently (I can't find the link right now), that indicated only 1 people in 10 is able to separate the sponsored content from news. Or in other words, 9 in 10 thought sponsored ad-articles were factual news. This study was done on article-form online content. I imagine TV and its video format has the very same issue: very few people are able to identify the difference between opinions/sponsored content and facts.
I don't think the information mediums are the real root issue here. We need to educate people to be better critical thinkers or all this will just repeat in whatever new format we invent to replace current systems.
I've been cynical of TINGE so far, but I'm going to try and be fair to them.
It's true that this is a "fresh start" for all of them who have left their previous party and part of me thinks it's not entirely fair to hold them to everything they did historically when they were whipped MPs.
However, with that said, defending austerity in 2019 of your own free will despite of the well-catalogued problems and negative impacts it has had on those most vulnerable in society is really bad optics.
It's true that this is a "fresh start" for all of them who have left their previous party and part of me thinks it's not entirely fair to hold them to everything they did historically when they were whipped MPs.
However, with that said, defending austerity in 2019 of your own free will despite of the well-catalogued problems and negative impacts it has had on those most vulnerable in society is really bad optics.
The big society stuff was just weird, my memories seem to mix it up with the thick of it, lot's of strange groups holding meetings to fill the vacuum left by the government.
I still don't know if any of it was serious.
I'm fairly certain someone held up foodbanks as an example of big society.
Could've just been something I imagined a Tory would say though.
Edit I googled foodbanks big society and got tons of Tory journo hot takes on being proud of foodbanks so maybe it was the press not an actual Tory MP.
I thought the Tory line was they are unnecessary and just used by people on the make who can't budget properly.
I know Edwina Currie said they have cars, how can they need food, she obviously hasn't heard of temporary unemployment or anything to do with normal life.
Who knows, so many terrible opinion choices. Any could be theirs.
I thought the press conference with the 3 Tory defectors was incredible. They spoke passionately, and everything they said resonated with me... except their thoughts on implementing austerity and then sticking by it. I suppose if you're a Tory, then implementing austerity seems like the correct thing to do in the circumstances. Awful decision though.
Perhaps going out day one and slagging off a policy you previously voted for seems like a bad look for you and your new group, although not quite on the level of a funny tinge moment.
This new group is very interesting to me and if they can gain more MPs from both sides of the room then it'll start being a real change. As it stands, it currently runs the risk of being stopped before it's made any real impact.
I'd like to see some real policies, and if they lean towards progressive (higher tax rates, for one) then I'll be interested. But as centrists they might steer away from that. I'm not sure yet but I'm interested in how this shakes up the status quo.
Perhaps going out day one and slagging off a policy you previously voted for seems like a bad look for you and your new group, although not quite on the level of a funny tinge moment.
This new group is very interesting to me and if they can gain more MPs from both sides of the room then it'll start being a real change. As it stands, it currently runs the risk of being stopped before it's made any real impact.
I'd like to see some real policies, and if they lean towards progressive (higher tax rates, for one) then I'll be interested. But as centrists they might steer away from that. I'm not sure yet but I'm interested in how this shakes up the status quo.
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Yep, she should have said something along the lines.
"There had to be cuts due to the financial crisis but in hindsight the depth and the length of austerity took it too far."
I really do wonder what policies this new centrist party will put forward.
But that's not what she believes, she should say what she believes. Which is poor people don't matter
Are they looking for volunteers, cash etc. Maybe look into helping them out, they don't get support then the party/group is toast.
Why tho? Her voting record on immig is near identical to may. She'll say a pro-immig bit and then repeatedly vote to screw immigs/asylum seekers/eu nationals, same as she has always done. Words are wind.
Mundell only cares about holding the cabinet seat, he's shown it time and time again.