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8 Labour MP's quit party in protest of Leadership, Brexit and anti-semitism (update: 3 Conservative MPs quit to join Independent Group)
- Thread starter Thornton Reed
- Start date
Don't worry it's just a daft thing from a few years ago that you reminded about.
He raps badly and ends with I'm not a rapper, a bit like this non-party party.
Unless they are going to run in conservative areas I don't think it's worth setting it up,
Cool, you do you mate.
But waiting to see what centrist-labour and centrist-conservatives have to say regarding policy is infinitely pointless to me considering you can see where their group's voting records are at already and join the dots
I'm a little concerned at this new side to Corbyn supporters I've been seeing since this group formed. Some of it is downright hateful, a lot of it is similar behaviour to the right wingers. It's really suggesting to me that indeed, the two parties have become too extreme on one side or the other.
Now, I'm not about to say this new group is the solution - I have my suspicions about many of them, and they don't yet have any clear policies (other than a people's vote), but I do welcome anything that mixes things up. Staying within a party you no longer agree with is never the right move. However I will say that their mere existence has made me feel more negative towards the more extreme Corbyn supporters. Not quite as bad as people on the right, and especially not as bad as ERG or UKIP, but they sure are closing the gap.
Now, I'm not about to say this new group is the solution - I have my suspicions about many of them, and they don't yet have any clear policies (other than a people's vote), but I do welcome anything that mixes things up. Staying within a party you no longer agree with is never the right move. However I will say that their mere existence has made me feel more negative towards the more extreme Corbyn supporters. Not quite as bad as people on the right, and especially not as bad as ERG or UKIP, but they sure are closing the gap.
People are angry as shit,because this split only increases the odds of seeing another Tory government,more austerity,more food banks,and more of the poorest and most vulnerable in this country getting fucked over so a few politicians can get their faces on the TV.
If that doesn't make you angry, what does?
I feel the same thing, except for leaving the party. Corbyn got into the leadership by appealing to many outside of Labour and brining them into the membership. That can still be done if you want to change the party. It's also why I am still a member so that I can influence party policy, even if slightly.
I don't see the point of them, they should join the libdems or something, or be true independents and get on with it as individuals.
All people are doing is applauding people for swapping where they sit.
Seeing how this is all playing out, I think they may end up hurting the tories more than Labour.
At first the attention was on the Labour people defecting but as more tories join and they all start to reveal that the policies they champion are either against what they said (people's vote) or just straight up tory policies there is a good chance they only real people they will attract are tories themselves.
I mean,if you are a current Labour supporter and see them say they are for austerity etc, chances are you aren't going to say to yourself 'yep, that's what I want from a Labour alternative'.
At first the attention was on the Labour people defecting but as more tories join and they all start to reveal that the policies they champion are either against what they said (people's vote) or just straight up tory policies there is a good chance they only real people they will attract are tories themselves.
I mean,if you are a current Labour supporter and see them say they are for austerity etc, chances are you aren't going to say to yourself 'yep, that's what I want from a Labour alternative'.
I'm on the left, I don't hate them but I think they're pointless, I'm just wondering if you accept the hatred is mutual between corbynites and tig, and is it OK for the Chuka's to act that way because he's supposedly in the centre or something.
I have trouble with the words moderate and extreme because I don't think it really covers it correctly.
120k people have died as a direct result of Tory austerity.
We are allowed to be angry that this move is allowing it to continue
It's okay, they behaved politely while doing it. Civil discourse, look respectable.
Those damn people passionate about wealth redistribution and the vulnerable, if only they were more polite to the people fucking the country into pieces.
It's fine to be emotional about this stuff. For what it's worth, I'm pretty much in agreement with you regarding the Tories. But the kind of blind dismissal and hatred I've seen around the internet in the past couple of days is not the way to solve these problems. If anything, it helps isolate the left's opinion, as it provides ammo for the left to just be referred to as extremists. We need to fight these issues in a more constructive manner than raw anger provides.
There's some horrible dickheads who like Corbyn, but there is for most political parties, being horrible and liking the middle of the road is somehow not as extreme.
There's plenty of poison flying in all directions.
"The left" is called extremists even when it's run by Centrists. See red ed, brown basically anyone not Blair and even he got some of it at the start.
I think there's an element of truth in that there's a proportion of Corbyn supporters who have been calling for dissenters to be deselected or to cross the floor were also angered when some of them actually went through with it.
I do find that most of us who want to see a left-wing British government implementing more socially conscious policies aren't wedded to the idea of a Corbyn premiership. So be it if Corbyn is replaced by someone else, as long as we have a genuine left-wing, realistic alternative to the Tories to vote for and not a move back to Labour being Tory-lite.
I do find that most of us who want to see a left-wing British government implementing more socially conscious policies aren't wedded to the idea of a Corbyn premiership. So be it if Corbyn is replaced by someone else, as long as we have a genuine left-wing, realistic alternative to the Tories to vote for and not a move back to Labour being Tory-lite.
The red Ed stuff was ridiculous, especially trying to paint his father as some uk hating immigrant.
Sounds you've been spending too much time reading Twitter, Facebook, or other social media sites.
You are finding what you are looking for in a sense
Yeah, I think the perceived Corbyn fanaticism is because he's the one who seems to want to push the party in that direction. I am very worried about him going, and the party correcting back and the becoming TIG, essentially.
I don't really like it either, but when Blair was parachuting in his people and sidelining the left, nobody called it extremism in the media.
The left need as many votes as possible and that means everyone working together, the "centre" doesn't seem to think they can be wrong or able to compromise.
If I was confident that Labour wouldn't snap rightwards if Corbyn left, I'd be happy to see a new leader. It's not Corbyn himself, just what he represents and it's been so long that it feels like Corbyn being ousted would be a right wing coup rather than electing someone with similar policies but better suited to leading.
Pissed me off, especially the father stuff. When I was in young labour i had a few interactions with him years ago and he's just a genuine nice dude. Well that's how he came across anyway.
He was treated like shit by the press which is expected I guess, but his fellow Centrists had the knives out ever since he beat David.
I have my disagreements with him but he would've been a good prime minster.
Edit I mean he was the only leader since John Smith (mistakenly put foot forgetting about Smith) to actually speak and listen to the left. Ultimately he ignored most of it I guess, but it was an important step and not an easy one.
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I think if there was any chance of that Chuka and his mates would've stayed. They know their pro-austerity politics are no longer welcome with or without Corbyn.
Yeah, this is pretty much my thoughts exactly (though maybe a bit more supportive of Corbyn's leadership potential 😛)
While I'm still complaining about this week's remaniacs, the guest's father was the one who sold ed the bacon sandwich lol
I'd like to think so, but they didn't leave cause they couldn't out Corbyn. If he loses an election badly, which the TIG greatly increases the chances of, and goes, what happens next?
I don't know if he really ignored it, because he couldn't really settle on what he wanted as he's a self declared policy wonk.
In office I think he would have been driven to actually try and solve some of the problems, left and right. He doesn't seem to have an ego problem and would be open to change.
Shame, even just for not getting to see him piss off Murdoch.
Yeah you're right, he isn't really tied indefinitely to one ideology.
Can't blame them for not standing in by elections because they know that it will be an uphill battle to even poll 3rd place.
Woah there, Superhot spits some of the hottest bars on earth and I would like you to refrain from calling him "A daft thing", please.
Woah there, Superhot spits some of the hottest bars on earth and I would like you to refrain from calling him "A daft thing", please.
All of the above, agreed.
We're incredibly aware that anyone to the left of Cameron is going to get absolutely hounded by the whole of our media, labelled a stalinist, and have every possible thing that can be dragged up, twisted against them.
And he served in the Royal navy, they tried the same shit on Tony Benn and he served in the RAF.
Only Tories fought in the war or Churchill did it all.
Don't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. I know a couple of ex-Labour headbangers who're drinking the Tinge kool-aid, including my own father. Though nowadays I suspect he has always been a Blairite through and through.
And people's memories are short. Soon they won't be ex-Tories and ex-Labour, but current Independent Groupies. At that point, their appeal could soar on one side or both, or neither.
Though I do have my fingers crossed that this really eats into the Tory vote, plopping new Labour MPs in the most amusing seats.
Yep and don't dare mention Churchill was a grey figure at best.
I agree with a lot of this. But then my feeling would be an if you like more charismatic version of Ed Milliband, who could actually gain a broad concensus across the whole party. Not someone like Corbyn who is less electable but not actually any more meaningfully left wing as much as he is just wedded to the rhetoric and ideas of the "old left".
And therein lies my frustration with a lot of Corbyn's support, who largely want good things, but have projected their ideas onto him personally as some kind of left wing symbol, rather than actually assessing and analysing his platform and performance as leader. For too many people he's become this left wing rorschach blot in which they see what they want to see.
Yeah it is true, I could see it going either way.
Hopefully though things go OK and Labour come out not too hurt but of course I'm sure the media will focus on them more than the tories or how tory light the new group is.
Leftists distrust centrists because they would rather die defending conservatives than actually working with us.
Centrists have fucked the UK more than once, with the SDP split of the 80s and the Lib-Dem tory coalition of 2010.
Don't you see, the Tinge is just playing 4D chess to get us a People's Vote that Remain is guaranteed to win!
He's the only left wing leader in my lifetime, people are naturally sceptical there will be any other hence sticking with him. Apart from that the notoriously infighting left is actually united, these two things happening at the same time is extremely rare.
What about not-Corbyn voters who would vote Tory otherwise being encouraged to vote for this group?
I think even back on the old site a lot of the enthusiasm had evaporated about Corbyn, I want someone from roughly the same ballpark but with quicker political wits.
It's not like we can do anything until he gets challenged or goes anyway.
I think a lot of people actually feel this way. I support Corbyn's agenda of municipal socialism, but I can take or leave the man himself. If someone else came along that wanted the same things, but was a bit more media savvy and had less exploitable baggage, I'd throw my weight behind them. Corbyn's policies have a very strong base to build upon, and getting someone better to sell them might go a long way.
Unfortunately, because of the back biting and chicken coups of past, anyone even daring to challenge Corbyn is met with immediate suspicion, even if their motives are earnest.