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one (or more) of these:
- Fervent anti-communism (which includes E V E R Y T H I N G left of "ultra-right-wing", tbh)
- Some actually profited during those years, so they owe their riches to the Junta
- They don't care about the people who were murdered/were tortured/were exiled because they think the apparent (heavy emphasis on "apparent") progress of a country is worth the murder/torture/exile of fellow countrymen
They are also sociopaths, and even want to see left wing people killed.
basically the same kind of people who support Trump and would gladly vote for him time and time again
WHO WHOULD'VE THOUGHT HUH
It's a big black spot on Eisenhower's administration that he let the British drag the US into this. Truman steadfastly refused any sort of coup.
Because of stupidity, ignorance and malice. Here in Uruguay you have people (and not precisely nobodies) saying our dictatorship straight up didn't happen or was greatly exaggerated.
But remember folks, the US national security blob will totally do right by Venezuela because we're just concerned about democracy and human rights.
yeah, we have the same kind of people. Those who say it wasn't a "dictadura" (dictatorship) but a "dictablanda" (which would be like, dunno, "dictatorsoft") or, hell, even a "protected democracy" (as was the "official euphemism" used back then). Those who say that there were no real "disappeared" and they just left the country and are living the high life in Europe. Those who say the numbers of victims are grossly exaggerated and they're mostly fake, just schemes by lazy people to get rich by seeking compensatory damages.
Ummmm excuse me would a sociopath behave like this?
/s
In all seriousness, the assassination of not just Allende but the dream of a true socialist republic is one of the greatest tragedies of the 20th century. There's no telling what kind of unprecedented prosperity the region could have benefited from had their economy not been devastated by the trade blockades and Western intervention.
You can hear the sound of the violence of the coup approaching the Palacio de La Moneda as Allende gives his last address. I think the hardest part of listening to it is that he clearly recognizes that countless innocent people are going to die in his name because of a government in Washington, not in Santiago.
yeah, but he was as bad as Pinochet tho /s
that last speech will never fail to give me goosebumps or make my chest feel tighter or make my eyes go watery.
"Surely Radio Magallanes will be silenced, and the calm metal instrument of my voice will no longer reach you. It does not matter. You will continue hearing it. I will always be with you."
that last speech will never fail to give me goosebumps or make my chest feel tighter or make my eyes go watery.
"Surely Radio Magallanes will be silenced, and the calm metal instrument of my voice will no longer reach you. It does not matter. You will continue hearing it. I will always be with you."
I think the genocide of Native Americans and slavery are probably worse, but I'm feeling you - the fallout of the Monroe Doctrine has been horrid for CEntral and South America.
And even truckers got on board with this. Class traitors they are.
A while back on Era there was a thread about the usage of the words "America"/"American" and how for some people it was viewed as an issue. Most Era posters completely dismissed that issue and this thread is a great explanation why: the complete lack of knowledge about events from Latin America's history that color those words differently for people that live there. Hopefully threads like these help US Era posters understand more about Latin American culture.
Yeah, unfortunately there are many similar things in all of LATAM dictatorships... Lots of people still deny they have ever happened, some say they were "soft dictatorship" and the crimes commited by the government are, mostly, unaccounted. The "transition to democracy" in many countries happened only by "forgetting the crimes" and letting the criminals walk free...
I wish this thread had more views and more posts from non-LATAM members. I think I understand why it doesn't, but I still wish it did.
and man, I wish all of this that happened because of actual US intervention in foreign affairs wasn't brushed aside as mere "whataboutism".
I said it many time - the word that racists in America used to shout because they didn't want to talk about Jim Crow is not the winning historical argument some people think it is around these parts.
United States citizen here - I just returned home from my first visit to Brazil, and my brother just moved to Chile. Such gorgeous places with wonderful people and culture.
Thanks for making this thread. I was somewhat familiar with the subject, but it is pretty stunning to read the horrible details of the coup. It really makes my blood boil that my home country is both directly and indirectly responsible for so much of the pain and suffering that has occurred in both of those countries (and most of Latin America). Ugh.
Thanks for making this thread. I was somewhat familiar with the subject, but it is pretty stunning to read the horrible details of the coup. It really makes my blood boil that my home country is both directly and indirectly responsible for so much of the pain and suffering that has occurred in both of those countries (and most of Latin America). Ugh.
Glad someone mentioned this. It really annoys me how the word American and America refer to a country and the people who were born in said country instead of the entire continent and its inhabitants. Even worse is that in Latin American countries, latinos sometimes refer to them as Americanos or Norteamericanos (like Canada or Mexico don't exist). At least in Spanish we have the word estadounidense to mention people born in the US, or more commonly known as gringos.
I don't see this changing in my lifetime, or perhaps never, but hopefully, this gets more awareness.
Also add me to the list of fuck Kissinger. And fuck the US Imperialismo. The United States have done many crimes in Latin America, yet the ones behind all this are treated like heroes. By both parties. Fuck that shit.
And the most infuriating thing now is that the people migrating to the US, consequence of chains of events going back decades, are all being detained in the worst of conditions and separated from their own children, also detained in cages and some dying because no one gives a fuck.
On a tangent, all the crying and whining about the dangerous situation with the cartels in Mexico, because of the United States providing the weapons and consuming the drugs.
But no, let's put the children in cages like animals, away from their parents.
I certainly didn't learn this stuff in high school in the 80s. I think I first learned about a lot of it from a drunk bald eagle.
Aside, I think I lost a lot of my younger conservative idealism over Iran/Contra and learning how the Reagan administration was end running congress. Then later I learned all the stuff that was done *with* the consent of Congress (explicit or implicit).
Aside, I think I lost a lot of my younger conservative idealism over Iran/Contra and learning how the Reagan administration was end running congress. Then later I learned all the stuff that was done *with* the consent of Congress (explicit or implicit).
It has a lot of views, but, frankly, I think most poster really don't give a shit, that's why they don't post. ERA is not as progressive/caring as we think it is.
To everyone who has posted here (sans the both sides banned guy), thank you.
Just so people here have an idea of how divided this country is because of this, and how some people really believe that the dictatorship was "good" (And some of them refuse to call it dictatorship, calling it "Military goverment" instead) you just have to see the results of the 1988 plebiscite, where people voted for the Yes or the No ("Yes, we want the dictatorship to continue" or "No, give us back our democracy").
The No won, thankfully, but it only got 55.99% of the valid votes, with the Yes having 44.01%.
Yes, the vote for democracy won with only a 12% advantage, which is so stupid.
Hell, the dicatorship won in 2 regions, one being La Araucania, which is the poorest region in the country! (And the right always win elections here, somehow)
The No won, thankfully, but it only got 55.99% of the valid votes, with the Yes having 44.01%.
Yes, the vote for democracy won with only a 12% advantage, which is so stupid.
Hell, the dicatorship won in 2 regions, one being La Araucania, which is the poorest region in the country! (And the right always win elections here, somehow)
Well, to be fair, 200k people were exiled and weren't there for the plebiscite.
Maybe it's me, but I have faith that the ones who believe the dictatorship was good are a minority.
Good news, too. From my side, my mother stopped being Pinochetista.
Yeah, they're a minority, but they're so loud. And a ton of them have so much power still, because like Altazor said, we never really had a "denazification" process.
Same with my mom, she no longer thinks Pinochet was good, thankfully.
I still have family members who are pinochetistas. Dammit :(
They're on my dad's side of the family, though.
On the other hand, two of my mom's brothers were detained back then. Both tortured. Thankfully, both were returned alive (phew) but one of them refuses to talk about it and I don't think he ever will.
They're on my dad's side of the family, though.
On the other hand, two of my mom's brothers were detained back then. Both tortured. Thankfully, both were returned alive (phew) but one of them refuses to talk about it and I don't think he ever will.
You aren't seriously suggesting that that's the extend of Russia/Soviet Union interventionism, are you?
Various reasons.
On one hand, you have people that were high class that were against Allende. Most of them profited or got better during the Pinochet years.
On the other hand, lack of education on the subject in schools, and lots of fake news. Yesterday, El Mercurio, right wing newspaper that got money from the CIA to help shaking the waters against Allende, published an entire page of fake news justifying the coup. YESTERDAY.
This goes hand in hand with people saying that Allende funded military groups that were killing people. Add to people that says that the economy got better with Pinochet, when THERE WERE TWO MAJOR ECONOMIC CRISIS WITH PINOCHET. Seriously, this isn't said often enough, but poor people got poorer, and more poor people. Drugs got into the country during Pinochet's rule. There are many reports that the Military Junta had their hand in drug dealing in the country.
The country only recovered after the opening of the economy during the 1990s.
All the economic and social problems of the country can be directly traced to Pinochet reforms. He didn't even saved shit. And later we found how much money the guy pulled from the country with fake names.
It also doesn't help that people that were part of his goverment are now in the Senate and in the Government. Our President defended him and justify the coup with a new euphemism: "the crimes aren't justified, but... democracy was already sick"
Adding that people had their vote bought or straight up were afraid that if PInochet won, they would go against them. In the most poorer regions, landlords threatened with firing people that didn't vote for PInochet.
Thanks for making the thread, compadre. Ni perdón ni olvido a estas bostas culiás
PD: There's a Chilean OT in Hangouts for those that didn't know!
Did Russia interfere with our elections in any similar way that we interfere with other countries democratic process. Mind that even this year we were talking about "interfering" with Venezuela and Iran. Do you think the Russians did something on the magnitude of what we were planning?
On the topic of US Military Intervention(technically not Lat America) but still relevant.
Read this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965–66
I wasn't even aware of this, and I know about "Operation Condor" in South America(all those RW dictators who murdered people.)
Read this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965–66
I wasn't even aware of this, and I know about "Operation Condor" in South America(all those RW dictators who murdered people.)
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The United States of America have terrorised Central and South America for decades and its citizens don't have much of a clue.
It's absolutely shameful.
Thanks for sharing OP, more people need to know.
It's absolutely shameful.
Thanks for sharing OP, more people need to know.
The Cold War was a very dark period for the "Third World" and I say that with its original meaning, countries not allied with the USA or the USSR.
The american government treated latin america and the middle east like fuckin cattle doing everything, both legal and illegal, to prevent Russia from getting allies there.
The american government treated latin america and the middle east like fuckin cattle doing everything, both legal and illegal, to prevent Russia from getting allies there.
I'm not saying we don't/didn't. but to bring up Russia and ignore either their annexation of the Eastern Bloc in the cold war or even their recent annexation of Crimea is pretty off the mark. And we both meddle in the Middle East now and did so in the cold war as well. Not only is it really off topic, it's trying to dismiss concerns over them by comparing a lesser crime (their election interference) with a major one (our backing a coup) while there are plenty of more recent worse things both countries have done.
It's either an ignorant tactic or a deceitful one.
And further, anyone in the US rooting for/ignoring Russian interference in the US elections is wishing for self-harm. Regardless of any lack of moral high ground, nobody ought to want their own elections hacked. If they did tip the balance, you can draw a stright line from that to kids in cages and increased environmental harm.
It gave us a handy excuse, but we did it for a century before the cold war started. too. We were messing with Nicaragua in the middle 1800s.
Historically, when rich people had to choose between democracy and capitalism, they chose capitalism time after time after time.
More specifically, the US pretty much always side with a right wing political movement, and I don't think it's a huge stretch for Americans to imagine right wing political movements who would sell their country for political gains.
Ehh there's no 'can be', it just is. There's been no downtime since 1973. The US government hasn't ever stopped with foreign interventions.
Some of it is outright malice, too. Literal "let's mock the victims of the Dictatorship"/"let's tell them that Pinochet should've killed them all" stuff. Full blown fascism.
You have straight up Nazis there, right?
I'm Jewish and I have (extended) family in Argentina, and let me tell you, the junta sure had some nazis....
Kissinger also planned that coup, because of course.
Yup. Some of the land owners from the southern part of the country are German - now, not all of them are/were Nazis (many arrived at the end of the 19th Century) but a lot of them are descendants from Nazi soldiers that escaped.
Hell, even a goddamn fascist politician with presidential aspirations (my Chilean peeps will know who) is a grandson of a Nazi soldier. Though the guy denies he was a Nazi, but there's pictures. And, well, that family was involved in the Dictatorship AND especially a crime against humanity in a certain part of our country.
But... yeah, some people just don't give a fuck. They'll vote for him anyway.
Slightly related especially to the conversation of USAers not learning from their past (and present), but this disgusting ad reminded me of the thread:
They're literally associating a young progressive woman to the goddamn Khmer Rouge, a group funded for over a decade by good ol capitalist USA (another skull in Kissinger's bag) in yet another one of our psychopathic jaunts around the world.
This is what you see on national television when you seek to either whitewash history or actively ignore it, erasing it from history. Not too dissimilar from tactics used by authoritarian regimes who seek to control their populace while inflicting great harm on the greater world at large, and on your own citizens, to make some dough and gain prestige.
They're literally associating a young progressive woman to the goddamn Khmer Rouge, a group funded for over a decade by good ol capitalist USA (another skull in Kissinger's bag) in yet another one of our psychopathic jaunts around the world.
This is what you see on national television when you seek to either whitewash history or actively ignore it, erasing it from history. Not too dissimilar from tactics used by authoritarian regimes who seek to control their populace while inflicting great harm on the greater world at large, and on your own citizens, to make some dough and gain prestige.
