9/11 has a totally different meaning if you're Chilean. Remembering the U.S backed coup.

[Deleted member 4783]

9/11 seems to be a very controversial date around the world. But we as Chileans remember it for one thing, the day our democracy died.

Salvador Allende was the president at the time of the coup. A socialist who won the elections fair and square, a huge milestone. But daddy U.S.A didn't like that, nor did the elite here in Chile.

So, the military planned the coup, the heads behind this were José Toribia Merino (vice admiral of the army) and Gustavo Leigh (commander of the airforce). Pinochet joined later, the day of the coup, the eleventh of september, 1973.

I won't go into more details, but that day was the end of democracy here in Chile for almost 20 years.

Approximately 38254 people were detained/tortured.

Approximately 3227 people were killed.

Approximately 200000 people were exiled.

Of 1169 people who "dissapeared", only 104 have been found and identified.


I know this is a U.S centric forum, more than anything. But I still wanted to share this, that's it's not only the day the twin towers fell. It's also the day when Chilean Democracy died, along with thousand of other people.

 

[Swiggins]

The Rape of Central and South America will forever be the darkest stain on American history.

 

[TYRANITARR]

Thanks for sharing. Do you have a reading source link that you think conveys good information? Or video? I would like to read more about this.

 

[deadbass]

When I was traveling in Chile, I was really moved by the Museum of Memory and Human Rights. So much pain and suffering, and so much of it rooted in the machinations of distant, uncaring countries. Listening to Allende's final speech was very crushing.

 

[Deleted member 4783]

Thanks for sharing. Do you have a reading source link that you think conveys good information? Or video? I would like to read more about this.

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Can you read Spanish? If yes, then yes lol

 

[Kurdel]

I remember watching a documentary about this in college, and was shocked I didn't know about this before.

The Rape of Central and South America will forever be the darkest stain on American history.

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It's definitely up there

 

[Moppeh]

Illuminating. Thanks, OP.

I was familiar with the US's dirty work in South America, but I had no idea it occurred on 9/11. If people are to never forget the sins against the United States, they also shouldn't forget the sins the US has committed.

 

[Deleted member 4783]

Btw, I'm sorry for the over use of "democracy". I think I'm not a bad writer, but I wrote this impromptu.

 

[Huncho_Houdini]

The Rape of Central and South America will forever be the darkest stain on American history.

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There's plenty to compete with it unfortunately, and we don't have to look far back, such as Iraq - shameful.

 

[The Living Tribunal]

I hope the day comes when the rest of the world holds the US accountable for the shit they've pulled in latin america (and other developing countries)

 

[RedVejigante]

But Milton Friedman told me that what happened in Chile was a miracle! /s

 

[Deleted member 4783]

But Milton Friedman told me that what happened in Chile was a miracle! /s

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I didn't even want to write about Friedman and the chicago boys, makes my blood boil. damage they did to Chile can be seen today (well, we are still in the shitstain system that is neo liberalism).

 

[meowdi gras]

Excellent (and infuriating) movie on the subject:



Though featuring a few Hollywood stars, the film places the blame exactly where it was earned.

Costa Gavras's earlier film, State of Siege, also critiques the US's insidious sabotage of Democracy in South American countries.

 

[focusedmaple]

As an american, I'm aware that my country's history is coated in blood. Central and South America's torture is one of the many, many terrible things my country has done.

It is a hard thing to justify in any type of logic, and it is one of the things one must try to understand.

 

[Altazor]

Ni perdón ni olvido.

 

[Sankara]

relevant clip for americans by Ken Loach:

 

[Altazor]

Thanks for sharing. Do you have a reading source link that you think conveys good information? Or video? I would like to read more about this.

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the Wiki page is decent enough though, bear in mind, a lot of the sources are spanish only.

 

[Altazor]

38254 people detained and tortured
Over 3000 murdered
200k exiled
From over a 1000 disappeared, barely more than a hundred have had their remains identified.

From over a 1000 people indicted with crimes related to the dictatorship, less than 120 are effectively imprisoned.

 

[Deleted member 4783]

I

38254 people detained and tortured
Over 3000 murdered
200k exiled
From over a 1000 disappeared, barely more than a hundred have had their remains identified.

From over a 1000 people indicted with crimes related to the dictatorship, less than 120 are effectively imprisoned.

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I used "approximately" because IIRC we don't have a clear number.

 

[SteelBeast6Beets]

The real kick in the nads is that the people behind the atrocities committed during the dictatorship that were brought to justice can be counted in one hand.

I wish we Chilean did what our Argentinian neighbors did to the responsible of their own dictatorship: Rafael Videla. Pinochet's equally vile peer, Videla was arrested, put on trial, found guilty and incarcerated. And then pardoned during Menem's administration. And then he was arrested, put on trial, found guilty and incarcerated again, finally dying like a dog and then buried in some unmarked grave without any kind of honors.

Again, I wish that Pinochet had met an similar undignified end. It's what that unrepentant mass murdering piece of shit deserved.

 

[Altazor]

I


I used "approximately" because IIRC we don't have a clear number.

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yeah, we may never know the exact total. Many of the victims will never speak again of it. It's a big enough cross for them to bear.

EDIT: And I just posted the numbers again just so people wouldn't miss them or glaze over them. I'm glad your OP noted them, friend. It's necessary, especially when some fascist bootlickers still try to come up with the "bububut context!" excuse.

 

[samoyed]

What we did to Chile with the help of Friedman was a travesty and part of why I'll never take that school of economics seriously on top of the fact that they're just wrong.

 

[DiK4]

I am half Chilean. My mom left Chile and went the University of Illinois on a scholarship around the time this happened. I am so lucky she did. I had no idea the coup happened exactly on 9/11

 

[Deleted member 4783]

What we did to Chile with the help of Friedman was a travesty and part of why I'll never take that school of economics seriously on top of the fact that they're just wrong.

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Friedman is a fucking sociopath pos. So I feel you.





Hayek is a pos, too.

 

[Altazor]

What we did to Chile with the help of Friedman was a travesty and part of why I'll never take that school of economics seriously on top of the fact that they're just wrong.

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you know what's horrible? Friedman (and his ideas) is still revered in economics schools in this country. You have hundreds, thousands of economists basically saying "yeah, well, shucks about the dead but THE ECONOMIC RECOVERY OF THE COUNTRY DUE TO HIS POLICIES THO"

 

[Fulminator]

As an american, I'm aware that my country's history is coated in blood. Central and South America's torture is one of the many, many terrible things my country has done.

It is a hard thing to justify in any type of logic, and it is one of the things one must try to understand.

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It can't be justified. As Americans, we shouldn't blame or fault ourselves for the past atrocities our government has committed, but we should do our best to try and prevent anything like them from happening again. Whatever is in our power to do.

Unfortunately the government will do shit like this regardless of civilian opinions and actions, so it's hard to combat it .

 

[Deleted member 4783]

you know what's horrible? Friedman (and his ideas) is still revered in economics schools in this country. You have hundreds, thousands of economists basically saying "yeah, well, shucks about the dead but THE ECONOMIC RECOVERY OF THE COUNTRY DUE TO HIS POLICIES THO"

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And even when you tell them that "trickle down" doesn't work, they will still think that they are right.

 

[Altazor]

And even when you tell them that "trickle down" doesn't work, they will still think that they are right.

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the "it totally works, it's just that you're unable to perceive it!" defense

 

[Deleted member 4783]

the "it totally works, it's just that you're unable to perceive it!" defense

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Or "poors are poor because they want to be poor". They are sociopaths and psychopaths.

 

[Deleted member 4367]

The Rape of Central and South America will forever be the darkest stain on American history.

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There are so many options. Native Americans, Southeast Asia, Middle East, Africa... the list is quite long.

 

[Wilf Netherton]

All of this is still invisible to the general American public. It's not spoken of, and when it is people don't want to hear it.

 

[Volimar]

I appreciate your OP. I imagine a lot of people are wholly ignorant of the subject.


Apropos of nothing but do Chileans use the month/day/year reference or is today 11/9 there?

 

[Kthulhu]

They didn't even teach this in highschool for me at least.

How widespread was public knowledge of this? From Wikipedia it looks like most of it came out during the Clinton admin.

 

[Deleted member 4783]

I appreciate your OP. I imagine a lot of people are wholly ignorant of the subject.


Apropos of nothing but do Chileans use the month/day/year reference or is today 11/9 there?

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We use the day/month/year system.

 

[Altazor]

I appreciate your OP. I imagine a lot of people are wholly ignorant of the subject.


Apropos of nothing but do Chileans use the month/day/year reference or is today 11/9 there?

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day/month/year, so it's 11/9 here.

 

[Sankara]

It can't be justified. As Americans, we shouldn't blame or fault ourselves for the past atrocities our government has committed, but we should do our best to try and prevent anything like them from happening again. Whatever is in our power to do.

Unfortunately the government will do shit like this regardless of civilian opinions and actions, so it's hard to combat it .

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seems like plenty of americans still want to do the same shit over and over again even in 2019. Afghanistan, Iraq (twice), Syria, Libya, AFRICOM's vast network of military bases in Africa, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Brazil, Haiti, drone striking the shit out of Pakistan and Yemen. Even the rhetoric against China and Russia is straight out of the Cold War. And that is across party lines, so when it comes to foreign policy, democrats and republicans are the same.

Look how many Americans are in favor of "military intervention" and "freeing the people" as soon as the "bad guys" need to be taken care of and Americans think they are the arbiter of another sovereign nation and its peoples.

 

[Menx64]

It is terrible how many people are unaware of these cases. The USA paying the Left/communist card created a hell for many people in Central and South America. Even today some countries have not fully recovered and that creates the infamous caravans.

 

[Toxi]

As an Argentino, it's depressing how familiar the story is.

They didn't even teach this in highschool for me at least.

How widespread was public knowledge of this? From Wikipedia it looks like most of it came out during the Clinton admin.

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US high school only briefly mentions it as part of the broader Cold War. It's all focused on the ""US was fighting communism everywhere!" part and not, you know the fucking dismantling of a nation's democracy for corporate interests.

 

[Madison]

Allende was too dangerous for the US. Descansa en paz.

 

[Wilf Netherton]

It is terrible how many people are unaware of these cases. The USA paying the Left/communist card created a hell for many people in Central and South America. Even today some countries have not fully recovered and that creates the infamous caravans.

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Yes. People wring their hands and scaremonger over the migrants from Guatemala with no knowledge or concern over what the US has done to that country.

 

[samoyed]

you know what's horrible? Friedman (and his ideas) is still revered in economics schools in this country. You have hundreds, thousands of economists basically saying "yeah, well, shucks about the dead but THE ECONOMIC RECOVERY OF THE COUNTRY DUE TO HIS POLICIES THO"

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That sounds awful, neoliberalism is like an STD. What's modern day Chile's economy like, a mix of private and public?

 

[AlexBasch]

It's curious when people of my country think "gee, good thing there wasn't a dictatorship in Mexico like there was on most of South America!"

Gee, it's not like the CIA backed the DFS (Dirección Federal de Seguridad, think a Mexican Gestapo) and the PRI, a party that were the lapdogs of the USA, ruled for 70 years straight. The dictatorship was here all along, but people were given the illusion of choice.

I admit reading and learning more about the CIA and US involvement in South America fed my anti-American and USA despising views from an early age.

Chile seems like a beautiful country and I'd love to visit it someday and see the landmarks and historical places. Mucho amor desde Mexico.

 

[Kthulhu]

As an Argentino, it's depressing how familiar the story is.

US high school only briefly mentions it as part of the broader Cold War. It's all focused on the ""US was fighting communism everywhere!" part and not, you know the fucking dismantling of a nation's democracy for corporate interests.

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I remember that but I don't recall Chile ever mentioned specifically.

You'd think they'd teach us this when mentioning Nixon. Not like our schools are scared of teaching us about his laundry list of crimes.

 

[Deleted member 15440]

The Rape of Central and South America will forever be the darkest stain on American history.

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southeast asia is up there too. even ignoring vietnam (lol) we did shit like assisting the right-wing government of indonesia in its mass killings targeting communists, ethnic minorities, and organized labor. a million people were murdered in just a couple of years.

 

[Deleted member 4783]

That sounds awful, neoliberalism is like an STD. What's modern day Chile's economy like, a mix of private and public?

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Yes. A mix of private and public with low company taxes on top.

 

[Lant_War]

The Rape of Central and South America will forever be the darkest stain on American history.

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I'm actually curious, does this stuff (not only South America) get taught at American schools?

 

[Jarate]

I'm actually curious, does this stuff (not only South America) get taught at American schools?

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No

 

[Toxi]

I remember that but I don't recall Chile ever mentioned specifically.

You'd think they'd teach us this when mentioning Nixon. Not like our schools are scared of teaching us about his laundry list of crimes.

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You're right, I don't think Chile is specifically pointed out. Only Guatemala and Nicaragua (and Nicaragua only to mention the Iran-Contra Affair)

It's easier to pretend those crimes are just the work of a bad individual who's no longer in charge and not a corrupt system that we still live in and contribute to. US history is generally designed to paint the country in the best possible light.

I'm actually curious, does this stuff (not only South America) get taught at American schools?

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Only in the most abstract way possible. So basically no.

 

[Altazor]

More information about how brutal this was.

Caravan of Death

The Caravan of Death (Spanish: Caravana de la Muerte) was a Chilean Army death squad that, following the Chilean coup of 1973, flew by helicopters from south to north of Chile between September 30 and October 22, 1973. During this foray, members of the squad ordered or personally carried out the execution of at least 75 individuals held in Army custody in certain garrisons.[1] According to the NGO Memoria y Justicia, the squad killed 97 people: 26 in the South and 71 in the North
[...]

General Joaquin Lagos explained why he didn't return the bodies of the 14 executed prisoners of Antofagasta to their families:

I was ashamed to see them. They were torn into pieces. So I wanted to put them together, at least leave them in a human form. Yes, their eyes were gouged out with knives, their jaws broken, their legs broken ... At the end they gave them the coup de grace. They were merciless. "[...] "The prisoners were killed so that they would die slowly. In other words, sometimes they were shot them by parts. First, the legs, then the sexual organs, then the heart.

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On October 19, 1973, General Joaquin Lagos, commander of the Army 1st Division and zone chief in State of Siege, designated as governor of the Province of Antofagasta after the coup, presented his resignation to Pinochet.

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Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile

Pinochet's regime carried out many gruesome and horrific acts of sexual abuse against the victims. In fact, several detention sites were solely instituted for the purpose of sexually tormenting and humiliating the prisoners. Discothèque (Venda Sexy) was another one of DINA's main secret detention centers. Many of those who "disappeared" were initially held in this prison. The prison guards often raped both men and women. It was at this prison where internal repression operations were centralized. Militants anally raped male prisoners, while insulting them, in an attempt to embarrass them to their core.[38]

Women were the primary targets of gruesome acts of sexual abuse. According to the Valech Commission, almost every single female prisoner was a victim of repeated rape. Not only would military men rape women, they would also use foreign objects and even animals to inflict more pain and suffering. Women (and occasionally men) reported that spiders and live rats were often implanted on their genitals. One woman testified that she had been "raped and sexually assaulted with trained dogs and with live rats." She was forced to have sex with her father and brother—who were also detained.

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Operation Condor

Operation Condor (Spanish: Operación Cóndor, also known as Plan Cóndor; Portuguese: Operação Condor) was a United States–backed campaign of political repression and state terror involving intelligence operations and assassination of opponents, officially and formally implemented in November 1975 by the right-wing dictatorships of the Southern Cone of South America.

The program, nominally intended to eradicate communist or Soviet influence and ideas, was created to suppress active or potential opposition movements against the participating governments' neoliberal economic policies, which sought to reverse the economic policies of the previous era.
[...]

Victims included dissidents and leftists, union and peasant leaders, priests and nuns, students and teachers, intellectuals and suspected guerillas.[11] Although it was described by the CIA as "a cooperative effort by the intelligence/security services of several South American countries to combat terrorism and subversion,"[12] guerrillas were used as an excuse, as they were never substantial enough to control territory, gain material support by any foreign power, or otherwise threaten national security.[13][14][15] Condor's key members were the governments in Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia and Brazil. Ecuador and Peru later joined the operation in more peripheral roles.[16][17]

The United States government provided planning, coordinating, training on torture[18], technical support and supplied military aid to the Juntas during the Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, and the Reagan administrations.[2] Such support was frequently routed through the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)

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[Sankara]

southeast asia is up there too. even ignoring vietnam (lol) we did shit like assisting the right-wing government of indonesia in its mass killings targeting communists, ethnic minorities, and organized labor. a million people were murdered in just a couple of years.

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but 9/11 though, think of the firefighters and police officers. Better bomb, invade and occupy an entire region of brown people for over 18 years.