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Or remember that time when we supported Pol Pot in exile in his attempt to retake power? Good times.
Is there a bullet point list of all the countries that the US has invaded, occupied, bombed, interferred in democratic processes, extorted via economic warfare, used the CIA to overthrow governments, given weapons and money to fascists to take power, etc?
9/11 was a response to American imperialism in the Middle East, so I think this subject is very close to my thoughts today.
Thank you for sharing OP. I'm sad how little I've heard about the Pinochet regime so far, and even sadder that most of my exposure was learned though a fucked up "helicopter ride" meme.
Thank you for sharing OP. I'm sad how little I've heard about the Pinochet regime so far, and even sadder that most of my exposure was learned though a fucked up "helicopter ride" meme.
Gonna repost for the new page.
More information about how brutal this was.
Caravan of Death
Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile
Operation Condor
More information about how brutal this was.
Caravan of Death
Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile
Operation Condor
I just checked an actual school history textbook (The Americans: Reconstruction to the 21st Century).
This is the entire fucking section on US intervention in Latin America.
This is the entire fucking section on US intervention in Latin America.
Well, that sounds EZ.
Things can sound like no biggie if you write about them with enough detachment.
Wow. But also just the fact that Americans use the word 'interventions' is so revealing about how white-washing the language of their foreign policy is.
Yeah, it's totally brushed under the rug. Interesting contrast with the atrocities committed by the USSR in its sphere of influence in Eastern and Central Europe- those are taught. People here are desperate to keep the lie alive that capitalism has some kind of moral high ground above socialism.
Yup. Can't have children learning that we aren't the purveyors of freedom that we like to believe and more like the merchants of death.
I'm not an expert but we've been spoon fed propaganda of America being that greatest nation and savior, and so many people still believe that America is some sacred place that can act as judge jury and executioner
I'm not sure how you deprogrammed that sort of stuff from the population, but yeah until people stop pushing for military intervention etc, there's not much chance of stopping it.
That's even before all the stuff the government does in secret.
i guess if it can't be reprogrammed (and fight a whole mass media machine that constructs the same imperialist propaganda over and over again), then it just tells me that we can't expect US democrats and liberals to be on our side against US genocidal empire, because they will be the same as Republicans when it comes to foreign policy.
One of Kissinger's many, many crimes
Fuck him, and fuck Nixon
Comienzo por invocar a Walt Whitman
Fuck him, and fuck Nixon
Comienzo por invocar a Walt Whitman
Es por acción de amor a mí país
que te reclamo, hermano necesario,
viejo Walt Whitman de la mano gris,
para que con tu apoyo extraordinario
verso a verso matemos de raíz
a Nixon, presidente sanguinario,
mostly private but there's a big big part of it that's public: CODELCO, the state-owned copper mining company with revenues that make up a large, large part of our national budget.
and considering it's the largest copper producing company in the world, it's a goddamn treasure mine for big capitalists who have wanted to privatize it for a loooooooooooooooong time.
And Americans think Russians are indoctrinated. It's the same shit in the UK. Kids aren't taught to be remotely critical of their countries' histories. It's why history repeats itself and the past is always glorified.
I had no idea about what happened in Chile until I read The Shock Doctrine. I'm not American but these things weren't covered in school in Canada either, and it makes me think of how we similarly whitewash our own history. High school history classes are propaganda.
Thank you for making this thread, it's important to be remembering these atrocities as well.
Thank you for making this thread, it's important to be remembering these atrocities as well.
'Covert Action in Chile 1963-73' was the official US report of the events prior to it and an interesting read, with your pinch of salt. Amongst all the detail of how they tried to sabotage elections and then the Allende economy, it says that 'it is possible' money meant for official organisations made its way to far-right paramilitaries (p31). 🤔
Ralph Miliband had a good article on the events.
Ralph Miliband had a good article on the events.
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I don't think any of my history classes covered anything past, like, the Civil Rights Movement, although I'm pretty sure in freshman year we screened a film related to this. It wasn't until college though that I did deep digging and realized how fucked the US world police state is.
We are truly the baddies.
We are truly the baddies.
This reminds me that the Ken Burns documentary of the Vietnam war that so many people were fawning over was also a bunch of imperialist apologia with the usual "whoops, the US just randomly got itself into a mess and we lost because of the protests at home stopped supporting the troops *eagle tear*" narrative.
The way that history and memory work is so closely intertwined with power and it is happening every single day, even to this day in 2019.
The way that history and memory work is so closely intertwined with power and it is happening every single day, even to this day in 2019.
My family is from Chile and this day is never forgotten. They left in 1968 but I remember visiting with my parents in 1982 and armed soldiers taking my dad away for questioning, just because he took a photo of Valparaiso Bay. They gave the excuse that he was a spy taking photos of some naval ships. Luckily they released him unharmed 3 hours later. But those hours lasted an eternity when you're a kid. Fuck all those bastards that got away with all the atrocities.
Things are better now and my dad moved back there to be closer to other family, but this is still a dark day for my family.
Things are better now and my dad moved back there to be closer to other family, but this is still a dark day for my family.
Crazy how what happened in Chile isn't more known and talked about. It's US meddling at its finest, one of many cases in Latin America that directly destabilized the region. It's absolutely essential history yet I don't doubt for a second the majority of Americans don't know a thing about it.
Add another to the list that doesn't remember hearing anything about this in public school. I did find another article that gives some details. The wiki may be a better source but I'll post it here in case anyone else is interested.
www.globalresearch.ca/chile-september-11-1973-first-911/5608471/amp
www.globalresearch.ca/chile-september-11-1973-first-911/5608471/amp
So fucked up. And we get taught none of this in classrooms. Absolutely none of it.
I learned everything I knew about our treatment of Central and South America from my parents who were political activists back in the day.
I learned everything I knew about our treatment of Central and South America from my parents who were political activists back in the day.
The number of people America is directly or indirectly responsible for fucking over is ludicrous and most people have no idea because super powers get to dictate how history is taught around most of the world.
And now a lot of those countries and their people who struggle to rebuild are demonized by modern America.... a truly fucked situation.
And now a lot of those countries and their people who struggle to rebuild are demonized by modern America.... a truly fucked situation.
Fun (not fun) fact, iirc Jacob Rees Moggs dad was editor of the times at that time.
Blissful. And even when we do know that we are or contributed to the problem, we repeat the same mistakes.
I always bring up this JFK speech on Cuba from when he was still senator:
REMARKS OF SENATOR JOHN F. KENNEDY AT DEMOCRATIC DINNER, CINCINNATI, OHIO, OCTOBER 6, 1960
JFK of course went on to become President and helped escalate the Vietnam War and almost threaten war with Cuba in his abbreviated time as President.
This is all shortly after we fucked up Iran's democracy too.
What is the definition of insanity?
the thing with this not being more known in US classrooms (and society) is because it flies directly to the face of the "we liberate countries from tyranny and give them democracy and freedom!" narrative that your own country has tried so hard to make a truth. I think it's a bit of an attempt to avoid an actual, official act of self-reflection and the guilt that comes from abetting and propping up dictators that are pliable to your interests.
It's not easy, tbh, but it's something you *need* to do. To de-mythify your own country and society and realize that, for all the good a lot of individuals and organizations from the US have done, there's also A LOT of dark, downright evil stuff that gets swept under the rug. That the official meddling in other countries' internal affair wasn't done for a particularly altrustic reason but because it was in your own (as a nation) self interest, and that there's actual, heavy consequences from that meddling.
I mean, you covertly backed attempts to destabilize and overthrow a democratically elected president of a foreign country because you thought he was dangerous to your interests and then propped up a bloodthirsty military junta that more or less aligned with your political ideology. The whole "we bring you freedom and democracy!!!!!111" thing isn't a valid excuse anymore.
EDIT: Don't forget this, too.
It's not easy, tbh, but it's something you *need* to do. To de-mythify your own country and society and realize that, for all the good a lot of individuals and organizations from the US have done, there's also A LOT of dark, downright evil stuff that gets swept under the rug. That the official meddling in other countries' internal affair wasn't done for a particularly altrustic reason but because it was in your own (as a nation) self interest, and that there's actual, heavy consequences from that meddling.
I mean, you covertly backed attempts to destabilize and overthrow a democratically elected president of a foreign country because you thought he was dangerous to your interests and then propped up a bloodthirsty military junta that more or less aligned with your political ideology. The whole "we bring you freedom and democracy!!!!!111" thing isn't a valid excuse anymore.
EDIT: Don't forget this, too.
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I respect Germany for integrating their Nazi past into their education so that they don't raise jingoists (there are still jingoists but less than elsewhere). Really wish America would do the same eventually. It's gotten progressive enough that half the country is willing to teach about slavery, but not so progressive that that half is willing to confront our sins during the Cold War.
I've lived in Chile (my wife is chilena) and learned quickly that a lot of people still have a positive view of Pinochet. He's not as universally despised as you would think, at least based on what I was taught in the US.
Yeah, those people are trash. And he IS despised a lot. The vocal minority (minority as in less than 40% of the population) that praise him, as I said, are trash.
It may sound bad, but hey, what do you think of people that view Hitler in a good light?
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The situation might not be as bad as in Brazil, but there are still way too many Chileans who think the dictatorship "wasn't that bad" and that it wouldn't be a bad idea to return to those times. The country never finished its transition to democracy (obvious examples being the constitution still being Pinochet's, and Pinochet never getting the trial and imprisonment he deserved).
It's even more insane because this is after America has seen how our (UK) fucking around with countries lead to disaster for everyone including ourselves.
I guess they just thought "we'll do it better".
I wrote some papers on El Salvador and Chile in college. That shit was hard to scrub out of my head, to the point where I voluntarily watched Friends with my wife to get rid of the imagery.
Started reading this and realized I sort of know the names Allende and Pinochet. I think I heard part of this history on a Planet Money episode and it was informative but I feel I've forgotten so much that it said. I remember just a small somewhat random detail that a famous, well liked musician was attacked and killed in the street.
If anyone remembers or knows that episode, please let me know. I'd like to re-listen to it
If anyone remembers or knows that episode, please let me know. I'd like to re-listen to it
as I said on another thread - we never had an equivalent to the Nuremberg Trials nor "denazification". We did (and do) have criminal cases against certain military members and agents that include consecutive life sentences... but those are few. Probably the highest member of the whole bloody organization to be indicted was Manuel Contreras, who was the director of the Intelligence Agency (the main repressive organization in the country during those times). Members of the Junta died before anything happened to them. Hell, Pinochet died in his fucking home, without having answered for ANYTHING he did. And no remorse, of course.
And the thing is... those processes are, essentially, focused on the military part of the Dictatorship. But there's a whooooole level of civilian collaborators that NEVER got ANYTHING resembling a sentence. Newspaper owners, CEOs, even designated (by the Junta!) mayors from the era - still allowed to be free citizens. Some of them are actual politicians still, to this very day. Still lurking there, flaunting their fascism, with no punishment because "FREEZE PEACH!!!11"
Our transition to democracy was a frail one, a very defective one, tbh. Many of the institutions propped up by the Dictatorship still exist, mostly unmodified.
It's an open wound.
No, and even things like slavery or the genocide of Native Americans are glossed over in many schools, depending on the region of the country.
Yeah, we are fucked in so many ways. I still believe that less than 40% of Chileans see Pinochet as something good. A lot, but a minority nonetheless.
User Banned (Permanent): Inflammatory Generalizations and Defending a Military Coup/Dictatorship
Would Chile rather be a clustefuck like the rest of LATAM? Chile being the only kinda development country of the region doesn't happen without this date. This isn't praise to Pinochet. Just stating a fact. I don't get the rose tinted glasses view for Allende both were scum, you can and should hate and reject both.