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A Critique of Red Letter Media’s Bigoted Content (See Staff Post)

Oct 27, 2017
1,755
Because people have done so and continue to do so already. No one is interested in giving bigotry from other sources a past. This topic exists because this bigotry needs to be addressed as much as Disney's particularly considering that these days YT personalities can draw more eyes and fans than some films.
Much of the evidence I have seen seems to revolve around them making objectionable jokes about capitalistic leviathans selling token representation and the people buying it. While I disagree with how they go about it, It seems they are not interested in giving it a pass either which I think is some amount of important context when considering the source of their objectionable material.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,310
RLM are staunch Anti-Capitalists which is why they make a shut ton of clickbait controversy du jour videos like multiple videos on Ghostbusters 2016... because they're Anti-Capitalists!

Trying to hide behind "they're not shitting on diversity, they're shitting on Capitalism" is some lazy shit lol
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,013
Ann Arbor, MI
Why stop at RLM when we could be going after Disney or whatever other major studio for a history of bigoted content?
So we should ignore Rich Evans trashing feminists and focus on Disney? Why not both?

Much of the evidence I have seen seems to revolve around them making objectionable jokes about capitalistic leviathans selling token representation and the people buying it. While I disagree with how they go about it, It seems they are not interested in giving it a pass either which I think is some amount of important context when considering the source of their objectionable material.
How is Rich Evans twitch rant against feminists a joke? He wasn’t joking in that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,755
User banned (2 weeks): inflammatory false equivalence surrounding representation
Because it's no longer 1954 and Disney doesn't make bigoted content anymore while RLM does?
That is your perspective. It does not seem like RLM agrees with that. Their perspective seems to be that it is closer to the realm of token representation and bigoted for which they make bigoted jokes about it. That is my interpenetration of the objectionable material of theirs that I have seen. I have not seen the twitch rant referred to above.
 

SystemBug

Member
Oct 25, 2017
409
Never really watched their videos all that much but that Rich guy always rubbed me the wrong way. Like you know he had shitty views by his aura.
 

Bio

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,042
Denver, Colorado
That is your perspective. It does not seem like RLM agrees with that. Their perspective seems to be that it is closer to the realm of token representation and bigoted for which they make bigoted jokes about it. That is my interpenetration of the objectionable material of theirs that I have seen. I have not seen the twitch rant referred to above.
I'm sure RLM does disagree. I'm not sure why that matters.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,310
That is your perspective. It does not seem like RLM agrees with that. Their perspective seems to be that it is closer to the realm of token representation and bigoted.
Give me a break.

You're not actually going with when they shit on diversity they're actually calling out racism are you?

"Umm actually Disney casting diversity in films is the real racism.... RLM is calling out racism not being racist"

I'm dying
 

Bradbury

Member
Oct 28, 2017
904
That is your perspective. It does not seem like RLM agrees with that. Their perspective seems to be that it is closer to the realm of token representation and bigoted for which they make bigoted jokes about it. That is my interpenetration of the objectionable material of theirs that I have seen. I have not seen the twitch rant referred to above.
Look you can be cynical about big companies representation, but there´s nothing Token or freacking bigoted in what Disney is doing with SW or started doing with the MCU. You´re just making yourself look like a clown
 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,789
So a few things. But before i begin. UPPITY BODY LANGUAGE. UPPITY........ BODY......... LANGUAGE. I'm so glad this thread wasn't locked, otherwise i wouldn't have known the beauty of uppity body language. I'm gonna need to find that in a gif form. So i can post the shit out of it in the future. LMAO.

Firstly: I have no problem with Plinkett as a character. *raises finger*☝ HOWEVER. When i do have a problem with him, is when it's clear that it was Mike talking during the TFA and TLJ reviews. (kids not caring about seeing themselves on screen etc) And not just the character.

Secondly: I used to be very fond of Rich, but then as time went on and i watched the Re-Rec live streams. I became disappointed, then grew to dislike him.

See, from the outside. Rich's problem is that he suffers from. Nerd Persecution Complex. Which explains (but doesn't excuse, just to be clear) his actions.

There was a third, but the uppity body language completely threw me off. And i forgotten LMAO.
This I'm a little puzzled with, though. I'd think that the stuff lined up in the OP provides a pretty good reason of why they'd need something to underline that these comments are not meant to be taken as face value and adopted by the audience.
This isn't directed at you. But If you need to be told that a serial killing old man isn't to be taken seriously. Then there's something wrong with you.

Plinkett isn't the problem in this.
RLM popularised the ‘YouTube movie review’ format where you cynically watch the film beat for beat and point out all the plotholes and other perceived flaws. They’re just CinemaSins with more words
Which is ironic, as Jay (rightfully) despises Cinemasins and that style of film criticism.

Though i would say. That RLM's style of film critisim is different from those peoples.
rich is probably pro-gamergate as fuck. he clearly seems to be that type.
Nah. Rich may be many things, but he isn't a GGer.
Unban Bobby. This thread is his moment to shine.

Slightly off topic, I disagree with the whole banning discussion on this or that personality: some posters in this thread are already gloating about getting so and so banned here and I think this fosters the wrong type of culture.
Agreed.
Which says admin/mods don’t want to upset members even if the content the OT about is extremely questionable. It is the reason many bad faith and questionable members continue to thrive on here because they have fans and admin doesn’t want to put their foot down and upset people by weeding the place out.
I've been banned for yelling about era not weeding out the scum. But i completely disagree with you.

I do not believe that banning topics are the same thing, as banning cunty members.

I don't want to be treated like a child being told what i can, and can't talk about. And wish era wouldn't ban topics from being talked about. So i'm glad they haven't banned RLM.
 

Alavard

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
913
That is your perspective. It does not seem like RLM agrees with that. Their perspective seems to be that it is closer to the realm of token representation and bigoted for which they make bigoted jokes about it. That is my interpenetration of the objectionable material of theirs that I have seen. I have not seen the twitch rant referred to above.
Making bigoted jokes makes you a bigot.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,272
Look you can be cynical about big companies representation, but there´s nothing Token or freacking bigoted in what Disney is doing with SW or started doing with the MCU. You´re just making yourself look like a clown
Dan Savage actually very recently said something I very much agreed with on his podcast in regards to companies "co-opting" Pride. It came down to the very fact that they're engaged at all is a plus above pure apathy or ignorance. Companies can make progressive commercials and promoting diversity and at the same time still be part of a crushing oppressive capitalist system. Nothing is stopping the push to break apart capitalism but as long as it continues to presently exist and we are beholden to it, I'd rather these institutions at least contribute to the advancement of progressive ideals rather than doing absolutely nothing ,or worse, reinforcing bigoted mindsets. There is no denying that it's gross that several companies that make supposedly progressive commercials and behind closed doors donate to bigoted organizations and politicians. At the end of the day though, no one interested in progress is going to just be placated by progressive ads. Disney isn't suddenly a fantastic company for casting a black Ariel but doing that when they don't have to is a prominent way to buck the status quo. We can praise the good and critique the bad at the same time for both companies and individuals.
 
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TickleMeElbow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,875
Secondly: I used to be very fond of Rich, but then as time went on and i watched the Re-Rec live streams. I became disappointed, then grew to dislike him.

See, from the outside. Rich's problem is that he suffers from. Nerd Persecution Complex. Which explains (but doesn't excuse, just to be clear) his actions.
What does nerd persecution complex have to do with "ching chong asians talk funny" bullshit?
 

Nature

Member
Nov 1, 2017
194
User Banned (1 Week): Excusing Bigotry
I'm sorry if my criticism of their work bothers you. If it doesn't, I don't know why you're kneejerkedly bringing up censorship in response to simple criticism.
Dont really care if you dont like them. I brought up censorship because people are talking about banning discussion of their channel just because they make crude insensitive jokes on occasion. Its common for comedians to make jokes that arent meant to be taken seriously and dont really reflect their own views for the sake of humor. Ive seen most of their content and i genuinely believe that this is the case rather than they being terrible people.
 

A.By

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,700
Dont really care if you dont like them. I brought up censorship because people are talking about banning discussion of their channel just because they make crude insensitive jokes on occasion. Its common for comedians to make jokes that arent meant to be taken seriously and dont really reflect their own views for the sake of humor.
And they can make those jokes so long as I can criticize them. Also, you do seem to care when you responded with such an incendiary reply to me summarizing how they write Plinkett. The character is meant to be pathetic, but as is demonstrated in media - Archie Bunker, Al Bundy, Stephen Colbert - all bad people - people will latch onto them. The same is true for Plinkett. They do an inefficient job of portraying Plinkett, and frankly, they have said some pretty awful things out of character, so from that perspective, I'm not entirely sure why I should assume in good faith that the character is 100% meant to make fun of the people who hold these views.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,310
Dont really care if you dont like them. I brought up censorship because people are talking about banning discussion of their channel just because they make crude insensitive jokes on occasion. Its common for comedians to make jokes that arent meant to be taken seriously and dont really reflect their own views for the sake of humor.
Except their jokes clearly reflect their views.... lol
 
May 9, 2019
80
Australia
Dan Savage actually very recently said something I very much agreed with on his podcast in regards to companies "co-opting" Pride. It came down to the very fact that they're engaged at all is a plus above pure apathy or ignorance. Companies can make progressive commercials and promoting diversity and at the same time still be part of a crushing oppressive capitalist system. Nothing is stopping the push to break apart capitalism but as long as it continues to presently exist and we are beholden to it, I'd rather these institutions at least contribute to the advancement of progressive ideals rather than doing absolutely nothing ,or worse, reinforcing bigoted mindsets.
I'd rather companies not try and co opt messages I know they don't give a shit about just to try and sell me stuff and have people defend them because they release one progressive ad a year.
 

A.By

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,700
There's examples of businesses doing good for LGBT people. Like, Target supporting trans people's right to use the proper facilities is driven by their bottom line to an extent, but it's still a good thing to have.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,272
I'd rather companies not try and co opt messages I know they don't give a shit about just to try and sell me stuff and have people defend them because they release one progressive ad a year.
That's completely fine. I'm of the mindset though that even if these choices like Gillette's commercial are completely cynical and finance-focused, the commercial does have influence and can move the needle on challenging people's bigoted mindsets. I'm not beholden to buying Gillette only because of their commercial but that step does have an impact beyond itself.
 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,789
Are you saying he, himself, explains away his jokes as "nerd persecution complex"?
No. It's how he comes across after to listening to him tens of hours of livestreams.

Though, it would probably explain his racist joke. They all do that shit behind closed doors. (again, not excusing it for one instant)
That's completely fine. I'm of the mindset though that even if these choices like Gillette's commercial are completely cynical and finance-focused, the commercial does have influence and can move the needle on challenging people's bigoted mindsets. I'm not beholden to buying Gillette only because of their commercial but that step does have an impact beyond itself.
Exactly.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,194
USA
Shy the problem with not having an issue with the Plinkett character is that there's not a defined line between Plinkett and Mike (or Rich/Jay, for that matter), some of which you touched on in your post.

The same "jokes" resurface in and out of character throughout their videos.

In addition, the jokes being made are at the expense of the people being made fun of, not Plinkett.

It's punching down. It's racist and sexist, no matter the intention.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,397
Between a company that cynically try to pander to equality movement and a company that stays silent when oppression happens.
I'll take the cynical one 100 times over.
They may not give a shit about it but it kind of shows that acceptance of bigotry is not acceptable.
I'll take that over genuine hostility like Hobby Lobby or Chick Fil A.

Shy the problem with not having an issue with the Plinkett character is that there's not a defined line between Plinkett and Mike (or Rich/Jay, for that matter).

The same "jokes" resurface in and out of character throughout their videos.
That's when I discovered the out of Plinkett vids that I dropped them.
When you realize that some of the abhorrent views are not just because the character is a PoS serial killer aha but genuine aha.
 

TickleMeElbow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,875
No. It's how he comes across after to listening to him tens of hours of livestreams.

Though, it would probably explain his racist joke. They all do that shit behind closed doors. (again, not excusing it for one instant)
Ok I just couldn't get the relation between ching chong jokes and nerd persecution or whatever, because racist mockery is just racist mockery to me.
 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,789
Shy the problem with not having an issue with the Plinkett character is that there's not a defined line between Plinkett and Mike (or Rich/Jay, for that matter).

The same "jokes" resurface in and out of character throughout their videos.
See i disagree there. I can see the difference and could tell when it was Mike, and not Plinkett. When he was talking about "forced Diversity" and other white nonsense.

When i'm trying to say (poorly) that not all the distasteful shit Plinkett does in character, is the same as all the horrible shit they say out of it.

Hopefully i made my point more clear (though i doubt it, as i'm fucking awful at articulating myself)
Ok I just couldn't get the relation between ching chong jokes and nerd persecution or whatever, because racist mockery is just racist mockery to me.
And i agree with you. I was just trying to explain how that particular flavour of it is.

Just look at this site, and you'll see nothing but that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,022
I don’t think out of touch white dudes from the Midwest should have any say in how people may or may not be represented in movies.

Their episodes on Wonder Woman and Black Panther are embarrassing
 

A.By

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,700
That is your perspective. It does not seem like RLM agrees with that. Their perspective seems to be that it is closer to the realm of token representation and bigoted for which they make bigoted jokes about it. That is my interpenetration of the objectionable material of theirs that I have seen. I have not seen the twitch rant referred to above.
I'm not surprised RLM disagrees with the assessment. Trump also disagrees when assessed as racist.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,194
USA
See i disagree there. I can see the difference and could tell when it was Mike, and not Plinkett. When he was talking about "forced Diversity" and other white nonsense.

When i'm trying to say (poorly) that not all the distasteful shit Plinkett does in character, is the same as all the horrible shit they say out of it.

Hopefully i made my point more clear (though i doubt it, as i'm fucking awful at articulating myself)

And i agree with you. I was just trying to explain how that particular flavour of it is.

Just look at this site, and you'll see nothing but that.
The jokes are punching down (even if they weren't intended this way). There is no way to call Malaysians dirty and useless as a joke. None.

It's pretty damn simple. Plinkett is not the butt of the joke in the way many of these "jokes" are executed.
 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,789
I don’t think out of touch white dudes from the Midwest should have any say in how people may or may not be represented in movies.

Their episodes on Wonder Woman and Black Panther are embarrassing
Yeah. And the worst part is you knew it was coming for months, and only watched it to see just how bad it was.

Well, that's how it was for me. Anyway.
The jokes are set up as punching down. There is no way to call Malaysians dirty and useless as a joke. None.

It's pretty damn simple. Plinkett is not the butt of the joke in the way it's executed
I honestly don't remember that "joke" But i won't argue. Cause that's the shit they do.

So i apologise.
Nothing like a bunch of white dudes telling you that nobody really cares about diversity.
But they're calling out teh cynical corporations. So that show they do care. 🙄
Where can I see this uppity body language
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,194
USA
Yeah. And the worst part is you knew it was coming for months, and only watched it to see just how bad it was.

Well, that's how it was for me. Anyway.

I honestly don't remember that "joke" But i won't argue. Cause that's the shit they do.

So i apologise.

But they're calling out teh cynical corporations. So that show they do care. 🙄

It's in the OP. This type of shit is not some unknown or rare occurrence in Plinkett videos.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,397
Holy shit the threadmarks are damning.
Like I'll have a easier time excusing Fox News bad.
 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,789
It's in the OP. This type of shit is not some unknown or rare occurrence in Plinkett videos.
No it's not. And i agree with you. I'm not trying to downplay it at all.

I didn't watch any of the op. As i remember (mostly all of it) as well as stuff that hasn't been brought up yet.

I'm not trying to defend them at all. So i apologise if that was the impression i was giving with my posts.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,686
LouisCK for years played the "character" of a racist/sexist asshole, and people loved it because they assumed he was playing an extreme caricature of that kind of person and wanted to have a laugh at the outragenousness of someone saying that kind of stuff.

When he turned out to not actually be such a great person in real life, people re-evaluated his routines to wonder if he was just using the guise of a character to say what he really felt.

You have to ask yourself, in the face of all of their "jokes" in character, and all of their comments out of character, how much of real Mike is in the character of Plinkett.

In general, every time someone tells you they're doing a "bit" or playing a "character" when saying racist/sexist shit, how much of that actually IS the character VS the person themselves, especially when there's an increasing number of examples of it otu of character.
It reminds me of when Jeff Dunham became popular. He puts a Arab puppet on his hand, has him scream "I KEEL YOU" at the audience constantly, mock the pronunciation of his own name, while he himself acts sweet and innocent. It quickly becomes evident that the puppets are just serving to put some distance between himself and the hateful jokes that he wants to make.
 

Metal B

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,291
User Banned (2 Weeks): Rationalizing Bigotry; Dismissing Representation as Marketing
Essentially at the very end of the video Rich brings up all the racist attacks Leslie Jones got after being cast in the film. They play a clip of Dan Aykroyd explaining why this happened/calling the 2016 election. Its not analyzed and is pretty much played as a joke that they are the victims.
The whole point of the video wasn't, that sexism and racism doesn't exist or was fake in the attack of the movie, but that Sony Picture took the attacks and used them as a marketing tool. Putting oil into the fire to sell the movie (the Dan Aykroyd interview). It's a new marketing tactic now called "Woke Brands".

I think, you believe that the RLM's guys don't see value in female heroes but in male heroes instead. No, they said multiple times, that they don't care for super hero movies at all, because they don't really enjoy it. For some time they hopped multiple times, that trend would stop and just now realized, that it will not go away. They don't see much value in a female superhero, because they don't see value in any super hero movie.
Also accusing Disney in using feminism as a marketing tool (the same as above).

Honestly, if anyone wants to understand why people have a problem with RLM in 2019 all you have to do is watch their 2012 review for Redtails. The world has changed around them but their level of thinking/film criticism hasn't evolved past 2008 post-race Obama America. Racism/sexism is a problem society has dealt with a long time ago so stop trying to play the race/sex card to sell movie tickets! Sometimes they have good points but then just trip over themselves whenever they try and discussion social issues.
The same think, they accuse Georg Lucas of using the "only all black cast"-angle as a marketing tool to sell his movie. A white guy making a movie about the achievements of black people and try to sell it as progressive.

I see the pattern, that many people believe, that any kind of major representation is good representation. And RLM's angle, that those are just marketing tricks, are seen as problematic in this thread. You can disagree with them, but i just don't see, what makes them bigots.
 

A.By

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,700
This isn't directed at you. But If you need to be told that a serial killing old man isn't to be taken seriously. Then there's something wrong with you.
As you note, not everything shitty Plinkett says is satire. What's the cutoff? How are we supposed to know when it's a serial killer being a bigot and when it's Mike?
 

skipgo

Member
Dec 28, 2018
2,230
Is feigning a moral interest in "proper representation" to criticize and attack all representation the new "it's really about ethics in gaming journalism"?
 

Icemonk191

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,143
"Look they may have called that black guy the n-word 13 times and said that all women are stupider than men but they said that Disney was fake woke so what's the big deal?"
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,686
That's probably true. Like, you tell someone who loves making misogynistic jokes to stop making misogynistic jokes, and they feel like it's too hard because making misogynistic jokes is just what they do.

Is feigning a moral interest in "proper representation" to criticize and attack all representation the new "it's really about ethics in gaming journalism"?
Can't be, it's not all that new.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
8,613
a sunken pirate ship
Is feigning a moral interest in "proper representation" to criticize and attack all representation the new "it's really about ethics in gaming journalism"?
actually, like, yeah, kinda (though I agree with the post above that it's not all that new)

"We want representation but not like this" is a great way for the bediapered brownshirts to act like they actually care about the issue while ignoring any manifested attempt to ameliorate conditions. No, this one doesn't count because ___. No, that one is bad because ___. Ironically you hear this a lot about how the hivemind can never be pleased yet it's definitely a strategy I see time and again from people who want to prevent any sort of improvement to legitimate structural issues.

And the worst part is that by doing this there's less critical analysis of the text itself. Example: Oh, hey, there's a gay character in Beauty and the Beast remake? Huh, OK. ...Oh, he's the joke sycophant character and his parter is only in one scene? That's gonna be a hachi-machi what a botch-y from me boss.

While the severity of these dipshits barely ranks in comparison, it is the same sort of pattern of discourse to how discussion of racism is regularly derailed by trying to treat every incidence of racism as an isolated case or how enactors of white supremacist violence are always lone wolves
 

The Kree

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,836