A Critique of Red Letter Media’s Bigoted Content (See Staff Post)

Charamiwa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,945
People really oversell their cynicism as their brand. Watch any Re:view or most of the Half in the Bag and it's just nice conversations about film they love. Sure they always have a bit of disdain for the big Hollywood machine but it's not really the crux of their discussions. I think if you watch clips or specific videos you get a pretty nasty pictures of who they are but I wouldn't say it's accurate at all.

I don't like all that they say, when Mike makes a white privilege joke or something I groan and move on but 99% of the time it's completely fine. I don't even think saying they're poor critics and pointing to Lindsay Ellis or someone else is relevant at all. Their brand of casually talking about movies is what makes them nice to follow, not the insightful analysis.
 

Sanjuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,708
Massachusetts
I don't think I ever said they are alt-right, just that they push talking points that are found in alt-right crowds/appease those types of people. I've also never seen anything that would suggest they're leftists or even leaning in that direction.
I think generally they lead in that direction. We might be at an impasse, but despite some objective material, I've never sensed they are that hateful.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
11,085
I don't think I ever said they are alt-right, just that they push talking points that are found in alt-right crowds/appease those types of people. I've also never seen anything that would suggest they're leftists or even leaning in that direction.
I think both is are a stretch, but I have seen them spend more time criticising the ridiculous nature of the studio system under capitalism than any other politcial issue that might place them as right wingers. Their takedown of vapid consumer culture surrounding nerd shit are largely excellent, as seen in their Nerd Crew videos.

It is very surface level and they clearly have 0 interest in exploring the issues deeper, but it's there if you squint hard enough.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,907
I see we’re at the point where we project are political beliefs onto RLM. None of these dudes are leftist. They dislike all this Disney shit because they’re cynical assholes not because they’re staunch anti-capitalist
 

SolidChamp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,791
Not that this has anything to do with anything, but wasn’t it hinted at numerous times throughout their content that Jay is actually gay?

The reason I ask is, if that is the case, I wonder how he feels about being perceived in this light?
 

squallmx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76
Not that this has anything to do with anything, but wasn’t it hinted at numerous times throughout their content that Jay is actually gay?

The reason I ask is, if that is the case, I wonder how he feels about being perceived in this light?
I only remember a comment made by the actor of Home Alone, but I thought It was just a joke.
 

Reym

Member
Jul 15, 2019
292
I admit I have a weakness for BotW, simply due to enjoying longer videos of discussions about weird or bad or obscure movies. I would put them on in the background while doing other things. I noticed a lot of the things this thread is talking about before it was initially posted and have been having more of an issue enjoying their content.

I’ve found Good Bad or Bad Bad scratched that itch a bit, and I haven’t seen anything from them that really made me uncomfortable so far. Anyone else have any recommendations for longer form videos?
 

Aldo

Member
Mar 19, 2019
232
I dream of the day when we can leave behind all these "content creators" who generate clicks by shitting on other people's work with their "controversial" opinions.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,337
USA
I think generally they lead in that direction. We might be at an impasse, but despite some objective material, I've never sensed they are that hateful.
Leaning into.. leftism? How? Again, I never said they are necessarily hateful or that they're directly alt-right, just that they pander to those crowds. That much has been plainly obvious for some time, now, hence this thread. Complaining about corporations being creatively bankrupt/pushing cash grabs does not mean they're leaning into leftism.
I think both is are a stretch, but I have seen them spend more time criticising the ridiculous nature of the studio system under capitalism than any other politcial issue that might place them as right wingers. Their takedown of vapid consumer culture surrounding nerd shit are largely excellent, as seen in their Nerd Crew videos.

It is very surface level and they clearly have 0 interest in exploring the issues deeper, but it's there if you squint hard enough.
Being cynical about the way films are made (ie studios aiming for pure cash grabs) is not leftism..

And, again, I never said they're directly alt-right, but they've replicated some of those talking points and views.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
11,085
Being cynical about the way films are made (ie studios aiming for pure cash grabs) is not leftism..
Good thing I am not arguing they are literal leftists, right?

You said : " I've also never seen anything that would suggest they're leftists or even leaning in that direction. ", don't start changing goalposts under the pretense cynicism about consumer culture doesn't count.
 

A.By

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,553
I've always felt somewhat sketchy about RLM, well at least in recent years, but seeing Rich unironically dogging on women's rights in the modern day and the channel's frequent shitty approach to the topic of diversity and harassment campaigns among others. And of course their propensity to make mocking jokes about trans people.
 

Sanjuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,708
Massachusetts
Leaning into.. leftism? How? Again, I never said they are necessarily hateful or that they're directly alt-right, just that they pander to those crowds. That much has been plainly obvious for some time, now, hence this thread. Complaining about corporations being creatively bankrupt/pushing cash grabs does not mean they're leaning into leftism.

Being cynical about the way films are made (ie studios aiming for pure cash grabs) is not leftism..

And, again, I never said they're directly alt-right, but they've replicated some of those talking points and views.
I don't think they really pander to anyone in particular. They move to the beat of their own drum. Double Toasted is in the same category, but I generally feel the same about them.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,337
USA
Good thing I am not arguing they are literal leftists, right?

You said : " I've also never seen anything that would suggest they're leftists or even leaning in that direction. ", don't start changing goalposts under the pretense cynicism about consumer culture doesn't count.
I never said.. that literally makes them leftists. I said I haven't seen anything that makes them "leaning in that direction", and being cynical about the motivations of corporations making movies is not a form of leftism.
I don't think they really pander to anyone in particular. They move to the beat of their own drum. Double Toasted is in the same category, but I generally feel the same about them.
We're gunna have to agree to disagree then.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,337
USA
I'm fine with that, Surfinn. Large part of the problem is I feel people are at odds here, and I've always liked your posts. I'm not trying to convince people they are a utopia acceptance, but I absorb most of their content without vitrol.
Thanks, everybody is free to make that decision on their own (whether to watch their content or not), but I think it's important to at least highlight their suspect behavior and rhetoric, as many in this thread were previously unaware of the content in the OP (which surely doesn't capture it all).
Jay is always the one to push back against Mike/Rich's shit. But it doesn't happen enough to make it fun to watch.
Jay has also been in on some bigoted commentary, including misogyny (some of it is listed in the OP).
 

Skiptastic

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,310
This thread was not a response to RLM posting another Star Wars video. The timing is merely coincidence. This thread was something that was gestating for well over a month between myself and other members on Era. I volunteered to be the one to put it up and take the bullets that would be fired.

So no, this isn't some conspiracy and knee jerk response to yet another video RLM made. This was something that was thought out and researched ahead of time.
Speaking as the OP of the RLM |OT| both here and the old place, I’m glad you made this thread. When someone fucks up, calling them out on it is the right thing to do. When they continually fuck up, all the better to point it out.

I’m just fucking tired of it from this crew. I’ve had hours and hours of fun watching their content, but it’s a fucking drag these days. I’m just tired of defending these guys who just don’t give a shit. The irregular jabs at privilege, the snipes at diversity or feminism. Fuck it. They’re entirely uninterested in changing for the better (Mike and Rich at least, and Jay doesn’t care), so why stand up for them?

It’s a real bummer for me because when the prequel reviews hit, it felt like the spark seemed to kick off the world of YouTube reviews that could be experimental and overly in depth and technical and go into plot and logic and movie making. It felt special and as they continued, there was more things I thought they did that were great (Jack and Jill Half in the Bag, many Best of the Worst and re:View episodes). but I’ve clearly outgrown their content and there are now plenty other places to get that kind of analysis that is actively trying to be good and good natured and in depth and not be awful.

I could go into a big long analysis on who I think is good or bad or why they’ve turned or whatever, but why put in the time and energy? I’ve put a lot of myself trying to make a worthy OT and be a good steward there, and I’m just done. Anyone else who wants to take the mantle is free to steal all my hard work and do the next RLM OT. I’m done with it.

(Sorry for the rant, just felt like contributing my thoughts and appreciation for those who started this thread.)
 

JJAwiiu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
321
Simple question for those saying they still like them:

Do you have any issues with Rich Evans going on a Twitch livestream and angrily and seriously ranting about women marching for abortion rights in DC and how he feels they should let Donald Trump do his job?
I guess I'll bite. I think people should watch the actual video instead of relying on the truncated quotes in the OP. It was a back and forth conversation and much was removed. Rich wasn't ranting about women marching for abortion rights, his rant was about people protesting simply due to Trump taking office. Jack - his streaming partner - gives a different point of view and offers more context behind the reasons for the protests. Yet Rich's view remained that he felt like people were just protesting because they lost the election. To claim Rich was specifically ranting about women marching for abortion rights is disingenuous. His view on that particular matter isn't even explored AT ALL in the conversation.

I do want to mention that I found it refreshing that even though Rich and Jack displayed differing political opinions, they were able to have a healthy and constructive exchange of ideas without it ruining their friendship. With anything about politics lately (especially online), it's rare and worth pointing out.
 
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TheMango55

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,646
I think generally speaking (most of) these guys are probably left leaning personally. But A) they are so fucking cynical that they don't even bother attempting to argue for that side, and B) They are aware that a large percentage of their followers are 4chan style alt-right assholes and they are trying their best not to alienate that revenue stream.

I haven't watched Half in the Bag for months, and it's been even longer since I have enjoyed an episode, because of their relentless negativity.

Best of the Worst can be good though, especially when Rich isn't involved.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,113
I feel like I'm walking into an argument where there is no actual room for debate, but speaking for myself, what sets RLM apart from say, Midnight's Edge, is that I don't believe they have an agenda. Their entire channel isn't dedicated to pumping out videos about why Star Trek/Star Wars/Marvel/whatever will fail because of SJWs.

I do think Rich is the worst of the bunch and the video game streams probably did more to damage his reputation to me more than anything else (something I can't really say about Mike or Jay since they're pretty much unknowns by comparison), but they also haven't said or done anything egregious on the channel itself that would make me want to stop watching them completely. It helps that I don't give a shit about Marvel or Star Wars, so I end up missing all the content that apparently drives the discourse of this thread.

I also look at it like this way - Bill Burr publicly defended a racist under the guise of protecting "free speech" and criticizing SJW "rats" and their "cancel culture". I don't see anyone calling for a boycott of Star Wars threads on this forum after he guest starred on an episode of Mandalorian. Maybe someone should do that, but to what end?
 
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Davey Cakes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,687
Massachusetts
I watch every video these guys put out on YouTube. That excludes streams.

I have no idea where any of the negativity comes from. Maybe there's a problem with whoever appears on the streams that I don't watch? Otherwise, their content seems entirely sarcastic and satirical.

The Nerd Crew is a bit...obvious, or on the nose. But it's all a joke. They take in the free content of the internet and spew it out with their own spinned format. It is what it is. I find it entertaining.
 

Zeouter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
474
Ireland
I watch every video these guys put out on YouTube. That excludes streams.

I have no idea where any of the negativity comes from. Maybe there's a problem with whoever appears on the streams that I don't watch? Otherwise, their content seems entirely sarcastic and satirical.

The Nerd Crew is a bit...obvious, or on the nose. But it's all a joke. They take in the free content of the internet and spew it out with their own spinned format. It is what it is. I find it entertaining.
That doesn't really respond to any of the heinous things they've said in the OP though?
 

Cheebo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,467
Ann Arbor, MI
I have no idea where any of the negativity comes from. Maybe there's a problem with whoever appears on the streams that I don't watch? Otherwise, their content seems entirely sarcastic and satirical.
Did you purposely ignore all the video evidence of them saying racist and sexist things in the OP? I mean there is even time stamps.

How can you play ignorant in a thread that provides you actual evidence?
 

GeoGonzo

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,641
Madrid, Spain
I also look at it like this way - Bill Burr publicly defended a racist under the guise of protecting "free speech" and criticizing SJW "rats" and their "cancel culture". I don't see anyone calling for a boycott of Star Wars threads on this forum after he guest starred on an episode of Mandalorian. Maybe someone should do that, but to what end?
So, problematic comments made by the show's hosts is being compared here with problematic comments made elsewhere, by a guest star of a smaller show. Clearly you can see how they are not very similar things, right?
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,113
So, problematic comments made by the show's hosts is being compared here with problematic comments made elsewhere, by a guest star of a smaller show. Clearly you can see how they are not very similar things, right?
Assigning scale to offense is just as problematic isn't it, particularly when I find Bill Burr's defense of Shane Gillis extremely troubling given his position of power and the level of influence that he has? Particularly when it's all born out of the fact that maybe, just maybe, someone should have vetted Gillis before giving him a national platform in the first place before reacting to people digging up his podcast history?

(This is before you even compare the relative scale of a Disney Star Wars show to a YouTube channel)

I think Rich, if not the RLM crew, live in their bubble of privilege and don't understand how that dynamic has given them advantages so I take their offenses as born out of ignorance and not out of malice. Case in point, Midnight's Edge put out a video explaining why "woke culture" made the new Charlie's Angels movie fail. I don't think RLM is even interested in watching the film, let alone wasting energy making a critique of it.

I don't know if Rich has had to confronted with his problems though and how he has reacted to someone he has. If someone has called him on his privilege and he has shut down like Burr or Gillis, then I'd definitely stop giving him the benefit of the doubt. And if someone has evidence of that, then I'd be happy to change my opinion. But from my limited experience of knowing him through their streams, I know that Jack has confronted him about his views and whether out of preserving a friendship or out of actual introspection, he hasn't dismissed Jack's criticisms or explanation of the privilege they share as white men.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,747
I watch every video these guys put out on YouTube. That excludes streams.

I have no idea where any of the negativity comes from. Maybe there's a problem with whoever appears on the streams that I don't watch? Otherwise, their content seems entirely sarcastic and satirical.

The Nerd Crew is a bit...obvious, or on the nose. But it's all a joke. They take in the free content of the internet and spew it out with their own spinned format. It is what it is. I find it entertaining.
If their content is near-indistinguishable from the pop culture sputum of your standard bigoted YT content creators then it’s not really in the court of satire anymore but rather striding right into active reinforcement of gross ideals. They consistently seem to attract scumbags into their audience while repelling marginalized people. At some point if they’re truly a “satirist” channel, it’s on them to put that across and take a stand rather than expecting “we’re satire!!” to be an ironclad defense of the rhetoric they put out which the OP and others have catalogued.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,155
If their content is near-indistinguishable from the pop culture sputum of your standard bigoted YT content creators then it’s not really in the court of satire anymore but rather striding right into active reinforcement of gross ideals. They consistently seem to attract scumbags into their audience while repelling marginalized people. At some point if they’re truly a “satirist” channel, it’s on them to put that across and take a stand rather than expecting “we’re satire!!” to be an ironclad defense of the rhetoric they put out which the OP and others have catalogued.
I think this is really overselling how much of that there is. Rich Evans is a piece of shit, but he's also not in every one of their videos and even when he is he's not always maximum awful. There's an entire gulf of difference between the people who instantly set out to blame SJWs for everything and make a thousand videos saying the same things as if they're 100% true, and one stupid asshole who says dumb shit sometimes and when he does everyone just stares at him for running his mouth.

The bigger problem nowadays is Mike, since Mike has increasingly just become a cynical black hole that draws all the energy out of the room when he's not enabled. I would happily watch Jay, Josh and Jack just talk about movies with occasional special guest Macaulay Culkin.
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
1,333
Germany
User Banned (2 Weeks): Ignoring staff post; downplaying bigoted content, Inflammatory community attack and generalization
I knew that Era would have such a topic, with over 1000 posts. I just knew. Here is my hot RLM take.
I like RLM despite seeing all sorts of problems with their content. Some are basic Hollywood facts, like how a film profit is calculated. They constantly explain it wrong. Is say less Jay and have no deep-rooted problems with Mike to comment on that one.

Fuck you, it's January! is in full swing this year when I look into this year´s release schedule. That observation will by my personal RLM legacy. Their best video btw:

PS: The Nerd Crew is unwatchable to me. Valid point, trash execution. I only survived one full ep.
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
1,333
Germany
I was bombarded with @ how can you talk about RLM in SW threads responses this weekend. That´s how I knew that something went down on Era jack_package_200.
But no. I must have sinister motives. I must.

Is this the official Era RLM topic? Today´s Best of the Worst: Wicked World is amazing if I am in the right place.
 

Exotoro

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,562
I knew that Era would have such a topic, with over 1000 posts. I just knew. Here is my hot RLM take.
I like RLM despite seeing all sorts of problems with their content. Some are basic Hollywood facts, like how a film profit is calculated. They constantly explain it wrong. Is say less Jay and have no deep-rooted problems with Mike to comment on that one.

Fuck you, it's January! is in full swing this year when I look into this year´s release schedule. That observation will by my personal RLM legacy. Their best video btw:

PS: The Nerd Crew is unwatchable to me. Valid point, trash execution. I only survived one full ep.
Holy shit this is so incoherent
 

beelulzebub

Member
Oct 25, 2017
990
I was bombarded with @ how can you talk about RLM in SW threads responses this weekend. That´s how I knew that something went down on Era jack_package_200.
But no. I must have sinister motives. I must.

Is this the official Era RLM topic? Today´s Best of the Worst: Wicked World is amazing if I am in the right place.
Lol. Why is it every poster that has an axe to grind about Era always has a persecution complex? Like every time without fail.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,240
Besides the actively shitty stuff RLM out themselves everytime they have to talk about something that isn't nerd shit. i.e. Boyhood is a boring and mediocre movies that hipsters and critics love because it took 12 years or people who enjoy PTA movies are all pretentious lit majors who can't get past how clever the whole thing is.

wild cringe tbh
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
1,333
Germany
They were caping for RLM in the John Boyega thread for some reason, despite no one talking about RLM.
I talked about them in that topic. You can go into my timeline from yesterday and look. Did I start it? I may have. Their review also showed up in the TROS topic a few times. Having a quick google as it all read pretty weirdly, reading the first and last page here and reading the Discussion Guidelines explained a lot.

PS: I like Boyhood but many of their jokes about it were funny. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Kevers

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
8,368
Syracuse, NY
I was bombarded with @ how can you talk about RLM in SW threads responses this weekend. That´s how I knew that something went down on Era jack_package_200.
But no. I must have sinister motives. I must.

Is this the official Era RLM topic? Today´s Best of the Worst: Wicked World is amazing if I am in the right place.
Here is the official thread.

This thread isn’t what you’re looking for.