1. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member OP

    https://theoutline.com/post/6536/british-feminists-media-transphobic?zd=1&zi=toxttugj


    This is an excellent deep dive into how TERF and transphobia has been able to root in the Birtish left and the British media....

    I had no idea that last month the Guardian literally released an official stance of the Guardian, that amounted to giving credibility that trans women rights can be a threat to cis women and that toxicity on both sides is to blame.

    Here's that piece:

    https://www.theguardian.com/comment...e-gender-recognition-act-where-rights-collide

    I really thought the Guardian has moved on from casual publishing transphobia in their editorial page... I guess no.

    Guardian US branch had to literally write a repudiation of their UK brothers and sisters: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...dian-editorial-response-transgender-rights-uk
     
  2. SigmasonicX

    SigmasonicX
    Member

    It's pretty crazy that a site for mothers could have such a huge influence. It's weird to see the similarities between using vulnerable mothers to recruit for transphobia and using gamers to recruit for white supremacy.
     
  3. I can't vouch for the US experience, but UK TERFs are certainly a special kind of terrifying.

    One trans supportive social event I went to in the summer spent the first hour of the night doing nothing but warning about the dangers of being outed on social media by TERF groups in the UK (as some of them will deliberately try to fuck up your life as much as legally possible).

    The organiser of said social event regularly has police protection when going to any trans supportive public speaking sessions, due to TERF harassment they've received. Their outrageous viewpoint that warrants the need for police protection? Being trans is not a choice and not wrong.

    As I say, I don't know enough about the non-UK environment, but this soggy island seems to have a plethora of superficially inoffensive, and otherwise socially liberal, public-eye figures who make no apologies for being transphobic.

    People like Robert Webb, Graham Linehan, and, perhaps most insidious of them all in terms of ability to normalise transphobia, JK Fucking Rowling.
     
  4. TheIdiot

    TheIdiot
    Member

    Robert Webb is transphobic?
     
  5. Ketkat

    Ketkat
    Member

    Mumsnet is just completely terrible, and even their attempts to make things more even were completely skewed to one side. They actually compared being called "Trans-identifying Male" or deadnaming someone to calling someone cis or a TERF. For some reason, there are so many in the UK seems to think that TERFs have some valid views and that we need to compromise with people who will never accept who we are.
     
  6. Breqesk

    Breqesk
    Member

    Content Warning: transphobia

    ...



    Yup. It fucking sucks, doesn't it?
     
  7. Ratrat

    Ratrat
    Member

    I cant understand where they are coming from at all. What do they have to gain?
     
  8. Machachan

    Machachan
    Member

    The interesting bit is how much of this is funded by religious groups, some of which are from the US. Some of these "feminist" groups even campaigned *against* the abortion campaign in ireland(!!!!) and attempted to sabotage pride marches. Irish feminists pretty much had to tell them to GTFO.

    Consequently, TERFs tend to work together with far-right groups rather often in Britain. It's pretty...telling.

    Money from right-wing millionaires, mostly.
     
  9. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member OP

    Nothing they just hate.
     
  10. Linehan seems to spend more time posting TERF talking points and hassling trans people on Twitter than actually working these days.

    It often feels like the prick is on some "notice me, senpai!" mission.
     
  11. Ratrat

    Ratrat
    Member

    How would terf even be a slur if it perfectly describes what they are? What would they rather be called?
     
  12. Ketkat

    Ketkat
    Member

    I think they prefer "Gender Critical Feminists", but like yeah. They are literally TERFs.
     
  13. Machachan

    Machachan
    Member

    Some addendums:
    http://www.transadvocate.com/fake-r...ti-lgbt-james-dobson-organization_n_20207.htm
    https://twitter.com/caseyexplosion/status/967723440936497157
    https://feministire.com/2018/01/22/...lk-tour-from-a-group-of-feminists-in-ireland/

    To me it seems as if trans rights are just used as a wedge issue, and setting up a "we're feminists guys!" seems a pretty simple way to do so. There's more such attempts undertaken by right-wing groups, unfortunately, and the overlap with the alt-right is surprisingly big. "Dr. Radfem", a supposed feminist, for example, was friends with Ben Shapiro and David Davies.

    (not that there aren't transphobic feminists, there absolutely are. Just look at this forum, being progressive doesn't mean one can't have shitty ideas about LGBT people0, sadly)
     
  14. Moff

    Moff
    Member

    europe might be quite behind the US when it comes to transgender rights, it's not really talked about a lot. I don't think I even want to know what most people in my country think about transpeople. I don't understand at all where that hate is coming from.
     
  15. MilesQ

    MilesQ
    Member

  16. Lagamorph

    Lagamorph
    Member

    I have to admit I'm at least proud the UK company I work for are very supportive of the LGBT community, both publicly and internally.

    Sadly it's looking like an increasingly rare viewpoint in modern Britain.
     
  17. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member OP

    I have to ask LGBT or LGB with lip service to T?
     
  18. Lagamorph

    Lagamorph
    Member

    As far as I can see LGBT. They've recently rolled out non-gendered "All Inclusive" restrooms across all of the offices and are regularly heavily involved in Pride events.
     
  19. Jintor

    Jintor
    Member

    the UK guardian editorial is garbage plain and simple
     
  20. MilesQ

    MilesQ
    Member

    In my limited experience, this tends to be more for gay people and less about supporting trans people. Trans always got the short end of the stick when it actually came to showing support.
     
  21. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member OP

    Cool cool sorry just had to ask cause often the same people who hate me are members of LGB or allies there of
     
  22. John Kowalski

    John Kowalski
    Member

    I thought this was a good take on a TERF:

    https://meanjin.com.au/essays/get-mad-and-get-even-liberal-feminism-and-the-second-wave-undertow/
     
  23. nded

    nded
    Member

    Robert Webb is a shithead? Ah well, chuck another one in the bin.
     
  24. Lagamorph

    Lagamorph
    Member

    No worries, it's a fair question.

    My cousin worked for the company when she came out as Trans (I hope that's the correct terminology, forgive my ignorance if it isn't) and the company were hugely supportive of her during her transition.
     
  25. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member OP

    Good to hear! :)
     
  26. Rael

    Rael
    Member

    I saw him basically say that gender is completely made up and just a social construct so he can't understand how can transgender people exist

    Yeah
     
  27. MrLuchador

    MrLuchador
    Member

    British written press is utter shite, as it isn't held up to the same scrutiny and codes as our broadcast press is. Piers Morgan made his name from being the editor of a newspaper, so yeah. 'Media' as a blanket term doesn't fit, but feel free to shit on the paper rags all you want.

    The Metro paper ran a full page ad from an anti-LGBT group on LGBT awareness day last month too, if you want to add that to your list.

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/10/10/metro-newspaper-full-page-ad-attacking-transgender-reforms/
     
  28. Ravensmash

    Ravensmash
    Member

    That’s disappointing from The Guardian, especially as I’m a subscriber.

    Certainly does seem like we’re behind in some regards - although I’m pleased that there wasn’t an issue with the US version publishing that rebuttal.

    I hope future coverage is more inclusive.
     
  29. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member OP

    The Guardian is one of the biggest enablers so it's not just the rags
     
  30. MrLuchador

    MrLuchador
    Member

    They're all rags. They can push whatever they want and run whatever narrative they want and won't be held up to any scrutiny.
     
  31. Mistel

    Mistel
    Member

    The UK has many systemic issues with trans people ranging from the NHS with the pedantic gate keeping Olympics to the enshrinement of disgraceful second wave views. This is usually why many things get given a pass as those who are in positions of power are trans exclusionary such as the members of SFN.
    That doesn't stop it from being used by TERFs
     
  32. gosublime

    gosublime
    Member

    Thanks for posting the article, excelsiorlef - really interesting and I’d never heard about the U.K. Sceptics group before. I wasn’t surprised to see Helen Lewis mentioned in there as I’d recently posted about her and an article she’d written in the Jordan Peterson thread. I’ll put it here as well -

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...self-id-designed-solve-real-debate-has-failed

    Some interesting quotes if you can't access it:

    The U.K. is not at the forefront of trans rights and I’ve wondered for a while way that might be.
     
  33. Ratrat

    Ratrat
    Member

  34. BuddyDharma

    BuddyDharma
    Member

    That's a very... unique take.

    Man, I don't get TERFS. I've seen plenty of bigotry, but these people seem threatened. Like acknowledging the existence and legitimacy of trans people means they lose something in return.
     
  35. Tetrinski

    Tetrinski
    Member

    • User Warned: Inflammatory generalizations
    That idea that they used to own the world and are better than anyone else has made the British, more notoriously English, general population one of the most hateful ones on the planet.
     
  36. Ah this makes some sense to me now.

    A girl I knew casually went to Uni a year or two back, became a pretty staunch feminist according to her tweets, fair enough. Recently however a glance at her twitter shows nothing but retweet’s and arguments ‘defending’ womanhood from the ‘threat’ of trans people, I’ve seen some words that I can’t remember but basically saying that Trans people want to claim to title of woman and have women called something else.

    All quite unsettling really
     
  37. Ravensmash

    Ravensmash
    Member

    I mean, that’s quite a leap from the topic at hand and a fairly big generalisation.

    I don’t think Britain is perfect, but we’re far from the most hateful society around.
     
  38. I wasn't awarw what TERF stood for until reading this article. I just don't get what the point is. What is there to gain, why have this fight, etc. But as said earlier...some people just love to hate.
     
  39. BuddyDharma

    BuddyDharma
    Member

    It's vaguely reminiscent of the fight for marriage equality. As if same sex couples would somehow diminish the institution of marriage itself by "changing the definition."
     
  40. Siggy-P

    Siggy-P
    Member

    Never really thought that the UK was anti-trans more so than other western countries but now that I think about it your absolutely right OP. All the major Terf celebs come from here and Transgenderism is the butt of jokes in pretty much every single British made comedy show at some point.
     
  41. Tetrinski

    Tetrinski
    Member

    It's like people who claim that gay marriage will ruin marriage for everyone.
     
  42. Idolvo

    Idolvo
    Member

    ....

    What the fuck, the Guardian.

    That's literally a common transphobic argument (trans womens access to bathrooms / changing rooms etc).
     
  43. excelsiorlef

    excelsiorlef
    Member OP

    The Guardian a few years ago was literally a TERF editorial farm
     
  44. I wonder how British media in terms of TV shows and movies represents trans topics. Trying to google if they are riddled with insulting/poor represnetation, or if it just tends to stay away completely.
     
  45. MrLuchador

    MrLuchador
    Member

    Coronation Street ran a storyline that spanned over 2 years regarding a trans-woman, I think this was late 90s maybe. That's the only mainstream representation I can think of.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayley_Cropper
     
  46. Mistel

    Mistel
    Member

    As below:
    An example of this is the IT Crowd with the whole plot point of one episode being violence against a trans women. Unsurprisingly this was written by a TERF.
     
  47. aeolist

    aeolist
    Member

    that's some galaxy brain shit
     
  48. Wow. I just looked up that episode of IT Crowd and read the synopsis. I've heard a lot of praise for the show, but that episode alone is all I needed to never watch. I pulled the clip of the ending Fight, and the laugh track really drives it home.
     
  49. Ravensmash

    Ravensmash
    Member

    Been a long time since I’ve seen it, but i think this was a really progressive move from Corrie.

    It was certainly the earliest mainstream representation that I can remember.
     
  50. NecroTechno

    NecroTechno
    Member

    There recently was a very interesting interview with Shon Faye in Them, and this exact question came up. One of the core reasons that came up as an explanation for why transphobia is so blatant in the UK is that, in contrast to the US where transphobia is a tool used very specifically by the right, plenty of visible TERFS are ostensibly seen as left-wing (an example being Germaine Greer). This has set the bar for trans discourse on both sides of the aisle very low.