1. Kthulhu

    Kthulhu
    Member

    Can't believe a forum for mom's is responsible for bigotry.
     
  2. Gakidou

    Gakidou
    Member

    Yeah honestly, we do seem to have a big problem with TERFs but I think it's because it's a big and relevant topic, especially near where I live. We have big LGBT+ communities, I think overall it's one of the most clued up countries on exposure to people who are "out" LGBT+, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily the safest. With visibility does indeed come surfacing phobia and bigotry.
    We do also have a neo-nazi problem for sure. So yeah I wouldn't really say it's as if the UK is regressive in this overall, it's more that its become a hot topic. There are a lot of trans folk, a lot of allies, and a lot of reactionary mediacunts who can't wait to start fearmongering anything commonplace enough to work. :\

    Fun fact I actually have a trans-mom friend who went to mumsnet and I was like "CAVEAT LECTOR THO" and she was like "I know but..." and then later she was like "oh yeah it is a hell hole im so done here." 4chan of transphobia confirmed.

    Also, funny to me that people start claiming TERF is a "slur". Like, if anything it seems awfully generous to even qualify a transphobe or gender gatekeeper as any kind of feminist.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Lagamorph

    Lagamorph
    Member

    Mumsnet is....quite the place.
     
  4. Machachan

    Machachan
    Member

    The irony is that it was a self-identifier. They named themselves that way. They noticed way late it didn't work out well for them.
     
  5. Sandstar

    Sandstar
    Member

    JK rowling is transphobic?
     
  6. NekoFever

    NekoFever
    Member

    Mumsnet's a weird place because it will swing from stuff like this to quite admirable campaigns like the Let Toys Be Toys one, aimed at stopping categorisation of toys by gender.
     
  7. IDreamOfHime

    IDreamOfHime
    Member

    Piers Morgan has 3 hours 3 days a week to shit in trans people and he relishes every moment he gets to do it.
    Call him a cunt all you want, but he has a massive audience on one of the two big channels and people slurp his shit up. Its scary we have this Trumper with such a prime audience.
     
  8. Dwebble

    Dwebble
    Member

    She's liked a couple of transphobic tweets, but I don't think she's ever publically said anything on the topic as far as I'm aware.
     
  9. Nerfgun

    Nerfgun
    Member

    That UK Guardian editorial really sucks. Wow. I like the Guardian, I read it almost every day but some of their Op Ed stuff has been fucking bonkers.

    Starts off reasonable enough then goes right into “big weird violent man-girls in prison” like what the fuckity flying fuck. Glad the US arm spoke out cause it’s just not only transparently offensive but just really weak.
     
  10. Mindwipe

    Mindwipe
    Member

    This is no great surprise.

    The British feminist left has always been lead by 2nd wave political radfems who ideologically simply don't care about minority rights, they just want to attack everyone they hate.
     
  11. Razmos

    Razmos
    Member

    We recently had an issue in the Manchester gay village with TERF's putting up fliers everywhere.

    Even worse they were putting up stickers with razor blades hidden behind them to cut people who tried to remove them.

    These people are sick and disgusting
     
  12. D65

    D65
    Banned Member

    • User Banned (6 Months): Consistent history of excusing or rationalising transphobia despite previous infractions.
    The word TERF is massively overused and it's why places like pinknews don't use it anymore.

    That isn't to say that TERFs don't exist, but the word is used in scenarios where it really shouldn't be and it's a label used to signal a group of people to harass others.

    Key example, I'm trans, but not everyone knows that. I've been called a TERF just because I shared and discussed a story of a detransitioner (there was one recently from a woman who lived as a trans man for over 20 years due to the trauma of being raped by her father repeatedly). The purpose of calling me a TERF for bringing it up was to basically silence and me and justify me being blocked from engaging in a conversation.

    There are some horrible people. The Manchester Gay Village has this beautiful anti-TERF sign up on many of the bars and last night was a blast. I love those things, but sadly the word has been, again, massively overused.

    So to discuss what is happening in UK media, the problem is the UK's hard on for giving both sides of a debate equal space. The BBC is notorious for this.

    This means that they will put on a transwoman journalist, put her up with a professional sexologist and have them "debate".

    Gender Critical feminists consider it a victory that even places like The Guardian are reporting that there are women who appose the GRA for "feminist reasons", as a way to get the public to decide what they want. And then occasionally you get the odd shout out to a transwoman (it's never transmen) that opposes it also.

    No she isn't. She has, however, shared transphobic stuff.
    Because once someone is labelled as a TERF (either for being one or getting mixed up) gets bombarded with harassment and it does nothing to change their mind.

    It just reinforces this idea that you can't challenge or question anything that trans activism says.

    The irony is that many trans people do when starting out, asking in communities if they're trans or not, and they're given explanations. But when a woman has any of the same questions, they're labelled in this way.

    -

    The middle ground doesn't exist. GC feminists are wrong. Opposer of the GRA that line up with "safety of women" are wrong, but to me it makes sense that not everyone is immediately up to speed.

    It makes more sense to educate people where they are wrong than silence them, mostly when it is some cis women of Britain who are constantly being given a platform to speak out against trans rights.
     
  13. D65

    D65
    Banned Member

    The razor blade thing never happen. I was just there last night and I've been going to the village since I moved to Manchester.

    The signs, yes, but not razor blades. They are already sick and disgusting for the signs but it was a massive waste of police time.
     
  14. D65

    D65
    Banned Member

    The really trans hating ones like the word TERF, just FYI. They love being called it.
     
  15. Driggonny

    Driggonny
    Member

    Why, pray tell, do you think she shares transphobic stuff without commentary to the contrary?
     
  16. D65

    D65
    Banned Member

    AFAIK she removed the tweets and apologised multiple times.

    If there's more I'm unaware of it.
     
  17. Vela

    Vela
    Member

    • User Warned: Inflammatory Generalizations
    I mean, if you read up on the history of the British Empire, all the way up to even now, it's a pretty abhorrent society with hundreds of millions of lives to its name. The shit the country has done to India, just to name one example, is absolutely horrific. The UK loves to talk about how awful the Nazis were and how great it is that Churchill and his ilk "defeated them" (the Soviet union did), but when you read up on what the UK has done as a British Empire, it's basically an absolutely, terribly fascist, imperialist society.

    The fact that it's transphobic as hell doesn't surprise me either. The country is such a shitfest of far-right politics and imperialism that if it wasn't for the US being the dystopian society it is, the UK would be next in line with the amount of inequality, far-right politics, imperialist history, and financial-capitalist exploitation.
     
  18. Razmos

    Razmos
    Member

    It didn't? Wonder why social media was going on about it so much then.

    Glad it didn't happen
     
  19. Stop It

    Stop It
    Member

    The only problem I have with the term TERF is that implies that radfems are more likely to be transphobic.

    I am friends with one or two self identified radfems and they're very much not TERF at all. Quite the opposite as our group I used to frequent had 3 people in various stages of transition.

    Anyway. The Guardian are usually top notch and I'm really sad about them of all people "both siding" this. One side want recognition that they exist and the other want to harm them via "outing them" and denying their true gender identity.

    The Guardian got so close too. Gender is not sex, and sex isn't binary either! The people who deny transgender people their rights know nothing of simply do not care that we are more than just men and women and that chromosomes are just one part of it.
     
  20. D65

    D65
    Banned Member

    It's just one of those things. Fuck the lady who put up the poster but ofc when rumours spread it paints them as worse as possible (when it isn't even necessary).
     
  21. Stop It

    Stop It
    Member

    Our history does not make current UK society fascist for fuck sake.

    People of my generation overwhelmingly see ourselves as internationalists, European (Millennials and younger overwhelmingly rejected Brexit) and reject far right politics just as our fellow Europeans reject Wilders, the AfD, PiS and LePen. Anti imperialism is strong in our cohort too and we take no pride in the crimes of our ancestors.

    Eurostat surveys show UK attitudes to the BME community and LGBT rights at the higher end of the scale, only bettered by the Nordics.

    UK society is emphatically not transphobic as hell, unless if you want to call most of the rest of Europe, let alone the world worse.
     
  22. emag

    emag
    Member

    Britain's victims of colonialism across Asia, the Middle East, and Africa are well aware of its awful history on LGBT issues.

    Not only were LGBT people treated awfully by the British occupation, but the very laws of the colonies were rewritten to maximize oppression and the subjugated native population "reeducated" to be anti-LGBT.
     
  23. Nerokis

    Nerokis
    Member

    I'm not sure I've ever seen a more distorted application of feminism.

    This is blatant "giving TERFs undue influence over the terms of the debate" nonsense. You realize trans women are women, trans men men, right? You realize the logic of creating a space to protect a disadvantaged group breaks apart when it is used to oppress another disadvantaged group? What does it mean for the basic rights of a group to be "controversial," and when that happens, is it not imperative to point out the actual reason behind that might be, say, transphobia and not feminism...?

    This British penchant for TERFism among left-leaning circles showed itself a bit in that big GQ interview with Jordan Peterson. The interviewer, a British feminist, was dismissed as not having her own opinions; in a sad attempt to prove her independence of thought, she brought up her views on transgender people. Putting aside that it is pathetic to use trans people as a cudgel for the purpose of impressing Jordan Peterson, I now also see how banal her position is among people like her.

    You didn't quite answer the question, though.

    How can one be so sure Rowling isn't transphobic when she seems fond of transphobic tweets on one hand, and does little to telegraph support for trans rights on the other? Considering you confidently answered "no, she isn't" transphobic, has she actually said anything to give that impression?
     
  24. Stop It

    Stop It
    Member

    It's worse because TERF Is a lie as a definition.

    These people are not feminist by any definition. They're simply bigots. Feminists will stand up for equality and dignity for all, without exclusion or prejudice. People who attack the trans community are doing both of these things.

    It's disgusting and worse to be given the sheen of legitimacy by taking the both sides approach and accusing those under attack of being to blame for their plight
     
  25. Mindwipe

    Mindwipe
    Member

    Helen Lewis being transphobic is not news. She's Sarah Ditum's editor and commissions her to write. She deleted her entire Twitter history the day Twitter announced it's rules on transphobia to keep her account. He's repeatedly defended transphobes. She sometimes makes lukewarm "both sides" statements, but ultimately she's ideologically radfem and that's why she's also anti sex worker and anti sexual expression, and her circle of friends are the same.
     
  26. Ketkat

    Ketkat
    Member

    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/25/what-is-terf-transgender-gender-recognition-act/

    Hmm.

    That's not what happened in that situation, and you know it. Some conversations are not worth having, and the line of thoughts that you keep going down try to give credence and validity to TERF talking points when they're a load of nonsense filled with hate. You can't talk about the issues of how they're never in the right, and how the UK media has issues trying to debate both sides of it when that's something you yourself are doing here consistently.

    You should also look into her book The Silkworm and see how it treats the trans character as well. She has a history of this, and sharing transphobic stuff can actively cause harm to trans people and yes will make you transphobic. There's no reason to be spreading only negative things about trans people if you're somehow a supportive ally.

    No, that's not the case. People aren't just labeled TERFs for being a woman, and you're getting dangerously close to spreading their lie that calling someone a TERF is misogynistic. There are plenty of women who are transphobic and aren't TERFs, but the fact of the matter is, when you start talking about "Gender Critical" feminists, those are entirely made up of TERFs. I don't care if they have a problem with that term, or if you do either, that is the term for them and it is 100% accurate.
     
  27. Gakidou

    Gakidou
    Member

    Similar things have happened in the past, there have been white nationalist/islamophobic posters put up in big cities in recent years that had razor blades behind them. It might have been a dishonest person trying to incite more outrage or someone speculating/misinterpereting wildly and the rumour spread well because its pretty believable and there's a sense of urgency.
    FTR I heard the same thing, my friends were spreading the news about these posters and spreading corrections and apologies on it later.
    Fake news is frustrating, but it doesn't hurt to just sort of believe something but be poised to change your mind and actions accordingly if you get new information later.
     
  28. Carth

    Carth
    Member

    Wasn't retarded ones a medical diagnostics and now clearly a slur? Words do change... not in the few months these people would like but it happens.
     
  29. Ratrat

    Ratrat
    Member

    But it's not words whose meaning can change. 'trans exclusionary radical feminist.'
    Unless people are now throwing 'terf' around whenever a feminist has a remotely unpopular view that is completely unrelated.
     
  30. D65

    D65
    Banned Member

    There's a reason why if you search pinknews it has been a like 4 months or so since they've used that term. That might not be accurate, but they've dialed back on the use of the term.

    How am I doing this constantly when I have never, ever, sided with the opinions that trans women are a threat to women's rights? I am interested in looking into why people think so and having conversations and debates with people that do.

    What the UK media does is giving these things a platform as if we don't already know the answer of what's right, that it's still not decided if there's a problem. That mostly stems from the point that the people running the media (non trans people) still have a giant misunderstanding but want to be supportive.

    I will. I'm clearly working off of old information, I didn't think she had any trans characters.

    Actually, yes. They are. In the various of discord groups I am in I have seen people called a TERF for almost anything.

    This is the nuance. When someone is labelled a TERF they are cancelled (and thus liable to be bombarded with hate). Not everyone looks into what someone does, has said, etc. They don't have time to make up their own mind of who is a TERF or not, so it is absolutely overused.
     
  31. Siggy-P

    Siggy-P
    Member

    And?

    I've been called a TERF on ERA before for nothing. That doesn't mean that TERF is a word that shouldn't be used or that British Media and mainstream shows/personalities areare less genuinely transphobic in general.

    Should we stop using the word "racist" because a poster another topic says "I'm not racist but I think it's overused." ?
     
  32. Juna

    Juna
    Member