Discussion in 'EtcetEra' started by excelsiorlef, Nov 7, 2018.
Can't believe a forum for mom's is responsible for bigotry.
Yeah honestly, we do seem to have a big problem with TERFs but I think it's because it's a big and relevant topic, especially near where I live. We have big LGBT+ communities, I think overall it's one of the most clued up countries on exposure to people who are "out" LGBT+, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily the safest. With visibility does indeed come surfacing phobia and bigotry.
We do also have a neo-nazi problem for sure. So yeah I wouldn't really say it's as if the UK is regressive in this overall, it's more that its become a hot topic. There are a lot of trans folk, a lot of allies, and a lot of reactionary mediacunts who can't wait to start fearmongering anything commonplace enough to work. :\
Fun fact I actually have a trans-mom friend who went to mumsnet and I was like "CAVEAT LECTOR THO" and she was like "I know but..." and then later she was like "oh yeah it is a hell hole im so done here." 4chan of transphobia confirmed.
Also, funny to me that people start claiming TERF is a "slur". Like, if anything it seems awfully generous to even qualify a transphobe or gender gatekeeper as any kind of feminist.
JK rowling is transphobic?
Mumsnet's a weird place because it will swing from stuff like this to quite admirable campaigns like the Let Toys Be Toys one, aimed at stopping categorisation of toys by gender.
Piers Morgan has 3 hours 3 days a week to shit in trans people and he relishes every moment he gets to do it.
Call him a cunt all you want, but he has a massive audience on one of the two big channels and people slurp his shit up. Its scary we have this Trumper with such a prime audience.
That UK Guardian editorial really sucks. Wow. I like the Guardian, I read it almost every day but some of their Op Ed stuff has been fucking bonkers.
Starts off reasonable enough then goes right into “big weird violent man-girls in prison” like what the fuckity flying fuck. Glad the US arm spoke out cause it’s just not only transparently offensive but just really weak.
This is no great surprise.
The British feminist left has always been lead by 2nd wave political radfems who ideologically simply don't care about minority rights, they just want to attack everyone they hate.
We recently had an issue in the Manchester gay village with TERF's putting up fliers everywhere.
Even worse they were putting up stickers with razor blades hidden behind them to cut people who tried to remove them.
These people are sick and disgusting
The word TERF is massively overused and it's why places like pinknews don't use it anymore.
That isn't to say that TERFs don't exist, but the word is used in scenarios where it really shouldn't be and it's a label used to signal a group of people to harass others.
Key example, I'm trans, but not everyone knows that. I've been called a TERF just because I shared and discussed a story of a detransitioner (there was one recently from a woman who lived as a trans man for over 20 years due to the trauma of being raped by her father repeatedly). The purpose of calling me a TERF for bringing it up was to basically silence and me and justify me being blocked from engaging in a conversation.
There are some horrible people. The Manchester Gay Village has this beautiful anti-TERF sign up on many of the bars and last night was a blast. I love those things, but sadly the word has been, again, massively overused.
So to discuss what is happening in UK media, the problem is the UK's hard on for giving both sides of a debate equal space. The BBC is notorious for this.
This means that they will put on a transwoman journalist, put her up with a professional sexologist and have them "debate".
Gender Critical feminists consider it a victory that even places like The Guardian are reporting that there are women who appose the GRA for "feminist reasons", as a way to get the public to decide what they want. And then occasionally you get the odd shout out to a transwoman (it's never transmen) that opposes it also.
It just reinforces this idea that you can't challenge or question anything that trans activism says.
The irony is that many trans people do when starting out, asking in communities if they're trans or not, and they're given explanations. But when a woman has any of the same questions, they're labelled in this way.
The middle ground doesn't exist. GC feminists are wrong. Opposer of the GRA that line up with "safety of women" are wrong, but to me it makes sense that not everyone is immediately up to speed.
It makes more sense to educate people where they are wrong than silence them, mostly when it is some cis women of Britain who are constantly being given a platform to speak out against trans rights.
The signs, yes, but not razor blades. They are already sick and disgusting for the signs but it was a massive waste of police time.
If there's more I'm unaware of it.
The fact that it's transphobic as hell doesn't surprise me either. The country is such a shitfest of far-right politics and imperialism that if it wasn't for the US being the dystopian society it is, the UK would be next in line with the amount of inequality, far-right politics, imperialist history, and financial-capitalist exploitation.
Glad it didn't happen
The only problem I have with the term TERF is that implies that radfems are more likely to be transphobic.
I am friends with one or two self identified radfems and they're very much not TERF at all. Quite the opposite as our group I used to frequent had 3 people in various stages of transition.
Anyway. The Guardian are usually top notch and I'm really sad about them of all people "both siding" this. One side want recognition that they exist and the other want to harm them via "outing them" and denying their true gender identity.
The Guardian got so close too. Gender is not sex, and sex isn't binary either! The people who deny transgender people their rights know nothing of simply do not care that we are more than just men and women and that chromosomes are just one part of it.
People of my generation overwhelmingly see ourselves as internationalists, European (Millennials and younger overwhelmingly rejected Brexit) and reject far right politics just as our fellow Europeans reject Wilders, the AfD, PiS and LePen. Anti imperialism is strong in our cohort too and we take no pride in the crimes of our ancestors.
Eurostat surveys show UK attitudes to the BME community and LGBT rights at the higher end of the scale, only bettered by the Nordics.
UK society is emphatically not transphobic as hell, unless if you want to call most of the rest of Europe, let alone the world worse.
Britain's victims of colonialism across Asia, the Middle East, and Africa are well aware of its awful history on LGBT issues.
Not only were LGBT people treated awfully by the British occupation, but the very laws of the colonies were rewritten to maximize oppression and the subjugated native population "reeducated" to be anti-LGBT.
This is blatant "giving TERFs undue influence over the terms of the debate" nonsense. You realize trans women are women, trans men men, right? You realize the logic of creating a space to protect a disadvantaged group breaks apart when it is used to oppress another disadvantaged group? What does it mean for the basic rights of a group to be "controversial," and when that happens, is it not imperative to point out the actual reason behind that might be, say, transphobia and not feminism...?
This British penchant for TERFism among left-leaning circles showed itself a bit in that big GQ interview with Jordan Peterson. The interviewer, a British feminist, was dismissed as not having her own opinions; in a sad attempt to prove her independence of thought, she brought up her views on transgender people. Putting aside that it is pathetic to use trans people as a cudgel for the purpose of impressing Jordan Peterson, I now also see how banal her position is among people like her.
How can one be so sure Rowling isn't transphobic when she seems fond of transphobic tweets on one hand, and does little to telegraph support for trans rights on the other? Considering you confidently answered "no, she isn't" transphobic, has she actually said anything to give that impression?
These people are not feminist by any definition. They're simply bigots. Feminists will stand up for equality and dignity for all, without exclusion or prejudice. People who attack the trans community are doing both of these things.
It's disgusting and worse to be given the sheen of legitimacy by taking the both sides approach and accusing those under attack of being to blame for their plight
The Silkworm and see how it treats the trans character as well. She has a history of this, and sharing transphobic stuff can actively cause harm to trans people and yes will make you transphobic. There's no reason to be spreading only negative things about trans people if you're somehow a supportive ally.
FTR I heard the same thing, my friends were spreading the news about these posters and spreading corrections and apologies on it later.
Fake news is frustrating, but it doesn't hurt to just sort of believe something but be poised to change your mind and actions accordingly if you get new information later.
Unless people are now throwing 'terf' around whenever a feminist has a remotely unpopular view that is completely unrelated.
What the UK media does is giving these things a platform as if we don't already know the answer of what's right, that it's still not decided if there's a problem. That mostly stems from the point that the people running the media (non trans people) still have a giant misunderstanding but want to be supportive.
This is the nuance. When someone is labelled a TERF they are cancelled (and thus liable to be bombarded with hate). Not everyone looks into what someone does, has said, etc. They don't have time to make up their own mind of who is a TERF or not, so it is absolutely overused.
I've been called a TERF on ERA before for nothing. That doesn't mean that TERF is a word that shouldn't be used or that British Media and mainstream shows/personalities areare less genuinely transphobic in general.
Should we stop using the word "racist" because a poster another topic says "I'm not racist but I think it's overused." ?
Just for people wondering, here is an article on pink news using TERF from last month...