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entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,153
Americans entering retirement are in worse financial shape than the prior generation, for the first time since Harry Truman was president.

This cohort should be on the cusp of their golden years. Instead, their median incomes including Social Security and retirement-fund receipts haven't risen in years, after having increased steadily from the 1950s.

They have high average debt, are often paying off children's educations and are dipping into savings to care for aging parents. Their paltry 401(k) retirement funds will bring in a median income of under $8,000 a year for a household of two.

In total, more than 40% of households headed by people aged 55 through 70 lack sufficient resources to maintain their living standard in retirement, a Wall Street Journal analysis concluded. That is around 15 million American households.

Things are likely to get worse for a broader swath of America. New census data released this weekshows the surge of aging boomers is leaving the country with fewer young workers to support the elderly.

Individuals will find themselves staying on the job past 70 or taking menial jobs as senior citizens. They'll have to rely more on children for funding, pressuring younger generations, too.

Companies, while benefiting from older workers' experience, also have to grapple with employees who delay retirement, which means they'll be footing the costs of a less healthy workforce and retraining older workers.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-gene...epared-in-decades-1529676033?mod=hp_lead_pos5

This is gonna be a huge mess, man. This is what happens when we destroy the social contract.

While I do like 401ks and IRAs, it's clearly not working for many.

For many Americans facing a less secure retirement than their parents, the biggest reason is the shift from pensions to 401(k)-type plans.

A piano and organ maker in the 1880s launched one of the first employer-sponsored pension plans, and railroads, state and local governments, and others followed, according to the Social Security Administration. By the 1930s, about 15% of the labor force had employer pensions.

In 1935, federal officials created Social Security to offer a basic income. Pensions gained steam after World War II, and by the 1980s, 46% of private-sector workers were in a pension plan, according to the Employee Benefit Research Institute.

A seemingly small congressional action in 1978 set the stage for a pension retreat. Some companies had sought tax-deferred treatment of executives' bonuses and stock options to supplement their pension payouts, and Congress authorized the move. The tax-law change ushered in the 401(k), allowing employees to reduce their taxable income by placing pretax dollars in an account.

In the 1980s, union strength was ebbing and a recession pressured employers to reduce pension funding, says Teresa Ghilarducci, an economics professor at the New School. Many employers deployed the 401(k) to displace pensions.

Market declines in 2000 and 2008 revealed the perils of do-it-yourself retirements, as many 401(k) participants cut back on contributions, shifted funds out of stocks and never put them back in, or withdrew money to pay bills.
 

Pilgrimzero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,129
As a Gen Xer with no savings, I am looking forward to my retirement years spent in a cardboard box under an overpass.
 

Deleted member 33887

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 20, 2017
2,109
Can't imagine it getting any better with subsequent generations, at least without government intervention. Wealth concentration is a heck of a drug.
 

Deleted member 1086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,796
Boise Area, Idaho
stuff like this terrifies me. still have at least 30 years of work before i can start thinking about retiring, and that's a long time for things to get worse and worse. of course they could get better for retiring folks, but i ain't putting much stock in that happening.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
Bring back pensions.

401ks are ass. My current employer has gotten so toxic I have to leave soon, but since my 401k doesn't vest until November, I would be losing $9k in vesting from the past 3 years. Who knows how long I have at the next place until that vests.
 

Shadybiz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,121
And it's only going to get worse, with skyrocketing student loans, coupled with most jobs requiring a degree. Tough to save for retirement when you're paying back tens of thousands in loans.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,391
Bring back pensions.

401ks are ass. My current employer has gotten so toxic I have to leave soon, but since my 401k doesn't vest until November, I would be losing $9k in vesting from the past 3 years. Who knows how long I have at the next place until that vests.

Wouldn't this be linked with full-time benefits? Assuming if so, that's precisely why it's a terrible idea.
 

uncelestial

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,060
San Francisco, CA, USA
Shoving all retirees into the stock market and absolving employers of any responsibility to them isn't a recipe for success, it turns out.

Strengthen Social Security. Make it possible for people to opt-in to it being a total replacement for 401ks, so they can "overpay" while in their working years and retire safely.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
Wouldn't this be linked with full-time benefits? Assuming if so, that's precisely why it's a terrible idea.

Pensions aren't the only thing they should bring back, but it is one of the things that definitely should come back.

Companies are making record profits, yet wages are very low and retirement pensions are non-existent unless you're in a government job.

To be fair, this is a more diverse cohort. Both in race and gender. It's not just old white guys, who are Trump's biggest demographic.

My parents are exactly the kind of ironic duo that support Trump and conservative policies but have no money and no retirement and will live off a measily $3k per month combined with no house until my mom loses her disability check. They're fucked, and they vote to fuck their own selves over.
 

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,721
I wonder if real estate in urban areas will open up if older generations seek a lower cost of living. But if senior citizens are to work longer then they would probably need to stay close to a striving workforce.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,391
Pensions aren't the only thing they should bring back, but it is one of the things that definitely should come back.

Companies are making record profits, yet wages are very low and retirement pensions are non-existent unless you're in a government job.



My parents are exactly the kind of ironic duo that support Trump and conservative policies but have no money and no retirement and will live off a measily $3k per month combined with no house until my mom loses her disability check. They're fucked, and they vote to fuck their own selves over.

But if we're still going to assert the ideals of the 20th century where full-time employment is the goal, we can throw all goodie goodie things as perks, but they will still, increasingly, not be available to growing populations.

The current growth, and thus future of employment, is part-time employment. By its current design, this is a level of employment that is directly devoid of any "benefits" we associate with employment.
 

Deleted member 4247

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,896
stuff like this terrifies me. still have at least 30 years of work before i can start thinking about retiring, and that's a long time for things to get worse and worse. of course they could get better for retiring folks, but i ain't putting much stock in that happening.

That's why you've gotta save for retirement yourself. I do even though I'm in Sweden where we do have proper pensions.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,507
I fully expect to have to work until the day I die. No retirement to travel the world, take cruises, buy an RV, sit on my ass all day, etc.

And most likely having a crushing amount of medical debt.
 

Conmex

Banned
May 19, 2018
416
As a Gen Xer with no savings, I am looking forward to my retirement years spent in a cardboard box under an overpass.
Have a few kids and be a good parent.

My old folks are retired and living a decent life in small town oklahoma thanks to my brothers and sisters and i.

Its 5 of us in total. We send them $50 a month each + their social security + whatever they managed to save throughout their lives.
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,484
Idk much about pensions, but aren't they pretty much not guaranteed until you cash out? I always read news stories about companies stiffing their employees on their 30+yr pension or people wanting cops to lose their pension. From that alone, at least my 401k and IRA are mine.
 

Shadybiz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,121
Have a few kids and be a good parent.

My old folks are retired and living a decent life in small town oklahoma thanks to my brothers and sisters and i.

Its 5 of us in total. We send them $50 a month each + their social security + whatever they managed to save throughout their lives.

This is sometimes the case, but your kids could always end up being assholes, as well. OR, you could have a kid with disabilities, so you have to take care of him/her for the rest of your life, meaning you'll have even less to retire with.
 

Nude_Tayne

Member
Jan 8, 2018
3,672
earth
Yup. Even if you do everything right, good chance you'll get fucked by medical debt.
Well hopefully an absolute revolution happens in healthcare coverage in this country before we're all old as shit. It seems like something that will never happen at this point, but this simply isn't sustainable. The left wants it; if the right gets continually fucked by it for enough generations they'll probably eventually turn around.
 

Ashby

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,631
I fully expect to have to work until the day I die. No retirement to travel the world, take cruises, buy an RV, sit on my ass all day, etc.

And most likely having a crushing amount of medical debt.
You think you're going to be lucky enough to work until you die? You're going to be fired for being too expensive so they can hire some kid right out of college for a 1/5 of your salary then you won't be able to find another job because nobody hires old people. You're going to die on the street.
 

ezrarh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
146
Well hopefully an absolute revolution happens in healthcare coverage in this country before we're all old as shit. It seems like something that will never happen at this point, but this simply isn't sustainable. The left wants it; if the right gets continually fucked by it for enough generations they'll probably eventually turn around.

The American way to implement health care savings will be to let people die early. I don't see our system being sustainable but there's no guarantee what comes out of this will be better. Americans will have to live healthier life styles to reduce their chances of getting screwed by healthcare costs - I don't think we live expecting the system to be fixed.
 

Pilgrimzero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,129
Have a few kids and be a good parent.

My old folks are retired and living a decent life in small town oklahoma thanks to my brothers and sisters and i.

Its 5 of us in total. We send them $50 a month each + their social security + whatever they managed to save throughout their lives.

Only son is autistic and the wife can't bare anymore kids. We also live in Oklahoma and we hate it here.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
I wonder if real estate in urban areas will open up if older generations seek a lower cost of living. But if senior citizens are to work longer then they would probably need to stay close to a striving workforce.

Presumably these folks are living in rent controlled areas. From personal experience, I find the elderly to be vehemently opposed to change and especially to moving. Suggesting to them to pickup and to a more affordable area is akin to asking them to go to a senior home/community.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
But if we're still going to assert the ideals of the 20th century where full-time employment is the goal, we can throw all goodie goodie things as perks, but they will still, increasingly, not be available to growing populations.

The current growth, and thus future of employment, is part-time employment. By its current design, this is a level of employment that is directly devoid of any "benefits" we associate with employment.

I get that, but many of us are still and will still be full time employed, and those benefits should never have been taken from us without a better or similar replacement.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
You think you're going to be lucky enough to work until you die? You're going to be fired for being too expensive so they can hire some kid right out of college for a 1/5 of your salary then you won't be able to find another job because nobody hires old people. You're going to die on the street.

Yup. This happened to my dad and it's why my family is broke as shit in their 60s now.
 

ezrarh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
146
Presumably these folks are living in rent controlled areas. From personal experience, I find the elderly to be vehemently opposed to change and especially to moving. Suggesting to them to pickup and to a more affordable area is akin to asking them to go to a senior home/community.

Some of the people in the story expected to maintain their current lifestyle without adequately preparing for it. They'll have to downgrade their life style whether or not they want to. I don't think society should front those costs.

For those who barely got by and were already living a low income lifestyle - I have more sympathy for since social security hasn't really kept up and isn't going to cut it. If they don't have kids to depend on, they're screwed.
 

Quixzlizx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,591
Shoving all retirees into the stock market and absolving employers of any responsibility to them isn't a recipe for success, it turns out.

Strengthen Social Security. Make it possible for people to opt-in to it being a total replacement for 401ks, so they can "overpay" while in their working years and retire safely.
If workers had the discipline to overpay into Social Security, it'd make more sense for them to just pour that money into their 401ks.
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,363
The Stussining
You think you're going to be lucky enough to work until you die? You're going to be fired for being too expensive so they can hire some kid right out of college for a 1/5 of your salary then you won't be able to find another job because nobody hires old people. You're going to die on the street.
Yup you can't outwork youth when you old.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,326
New York
It's just bizarre that this is the same generation voting against welfare of all kinds.

This is bullshit. Each and every one of them voted against that? My mother is retired. She's had her struggles. She's be solid democrat her entire life.

This is sometimes the case, but your kids could always end up being assholes, as well. OR, you could have a kid with disabilities, so you have to take care of him/her for the rest of your life, meaning you'll have even less to retire with.

My mother is in this situation. This exact situation. It's really really really hard.
 
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Nude_Tayne

Member
Jan 8, 2018
3,672
earth
This is bullshit. Each and every one of them voted against that? My mother is retired. She's had her struggles. She's be solid democrat her entire life.
Yeah, it seems gross overgeneralizations of large groups of people are frowned upon around here, until they're not. Everyone loves to shit on the baby boomers as though every single one of them voted for Trump when 45% of people age 65+ did not. That's still a minority, but not too far off from half.
 

mreddie

Member
Oct 26, 2017
44,125
So what's everyone's future looking like? I'm thinking Deckerd from BR 2019 where he's outside society and a boozehound.
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,890
Columbia, SC
You think you're going to be lucky enough to work until you die? You're going to be fired for being too expensive so they can hire some kid right out of college for a 1/5 of your salary then you won't be able to find another job because nobody hires old people. You're going to die on the street.

This. Your experience and expertise are going to be a noose around your neck when you get too old for your employer. Train your replacement and you better look happy while you do it
 

Shadybiz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,121
My mother is in this situation. This exact situation. It's really really really hard.

I'm certain it is. I have a couple of friends who have a little girl with Down Syndrome. Kid is cute as hell, but that doesn't change the fact that they will have to look after her for the rest of their lives. They love her, but you can tell that they are stressed and frequently tired.
 

CLaddyOnFire

Member
Oct 27, 2017
108
Kansas City
These retirement-age citizens really need to just pull themselves up by the bootstraps. Do they expect to have everything just handed to them? I'M building MY retirement fund with HARD WORK and not asking for HANDOUTS!
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,326
New York
Yeah, it seems gross overgeneralizations of large groups of people are frowned upon around here, until they're not. Everyone loves to shit on the baby boomers as though every single one of them voted for Trump when 45% of people age 65+ did not. That's still a minority, but not too far off from half.

Exactly. It seems we'd rather write them off than keep engaging and work on moving +10% to that 55% majority. But nope, all boomers are shit humans. I really don't like that generalization. Maybe it's because I met so many kind older people in my life that helped me when I needed them to. Even complete strangers.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,153
Idk why this is partisan thing. The removal of pensions and advocacy of self guided retirement planning happened during Democratic domination of Congress.

Democrats are better about unions, though.