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A good friend might lose his job because he was caught motioning for me to look at a woman at work, which made her uncomfortable

KaladinSB

KaladinSB

Member
Oct 27, 2017
496
ggundam8 said:
People could even take what you wrote as sexual harassment. There is no truly PC way to attract a mate. If you worry about being pc all the time you are going to be just a friend all the time. You have to cross the line and touch a hand sometimes. I have been called gay multiple times by women because I was respecting their space and not being as aggressive as other dudes around me. However, like you said you got to read the room and keep the workplace professional.

This thread is toxic and should be closed.
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What part of what was written could have been considered sexual harassment?

Asking somebody out or if you can buy them a drink is not sexual harassment unless you've already been turned down by the person and you're actually harassing them by asking for the nth time or in an overly aggressive way.
 
Rookhelm

Rookhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,691
Striking up a conversation with a coworker in the workplace is different from pointing and whispering about her behind her back.
 
Novel

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
I'm always creeped out by rating people with numbers. Do that and I have to sideeye, op.
 
est1992

est1992

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,180
muteKi said:
For me it's more "why do there keep being people who come in here in order to show they really probably shouldn't be allowed in public"
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Uh oh. I saw what happened with that Bearded guy. He was super racist/sexist/all the above. Was there someone else after him?

EDIT: Nvm, I just saw. The amount of dudes who can't comprehend this is troubling.
 
iliketopaint_93

iliketopaint_93

Use of alt account
Member
Sep 3, 2018
597
Work environments that are centric to either testosterone or femininity differ in funny ways. On one hand you should either feel inclined (no pressure) to join the rowdy good frat shenanigans or prepare for belligerent debates every day until possibly being fired (unless you're a 10 of course). On the other end of the continuum, your unintentional body language alone might be enough to throw you out on your ass - one wrong swivel of the head, maybe a few times at most, and congratulations on being scum of the earth who deserves no dignity or job any more.Fair enough.
 
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smellyjelly

smellyjelly

Avenger
Aug 2, 2018
774
iliketopaint_93 said:
Work environments that are centric to either testosterone or femininity differ in funny ways. On one hand you should either feel inclined (no pressure) to join the rowdy frat shenanigans or prepare for belligerent debates every day until possibly being fired (unless you're a 10 of course). On the other end of the continuum, your unintentional body language alone might be enough to throw you out on your ass - one wrong swivel of the head, maybe a few times at most, and congratulations on being scum of the earth who deserves no dignity or job any more.Fair enough.
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Bradford

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
I get the feeling OP/sympathizers would be singing a different tune if it were them being ogled by some gay coworkers, despite it being literally the same thing. I'm not even saying this from an overt homophobia angle, either. Receiving unwanted advances or objectification sucks and doling that shit out is the worst. Don't be that person.

If you need to ask if something is crossing a line it probably crosses a line. Staring in public is rude. Being a creep is being a creep regardless of circumstance. Don't perv on people, at least not in public, and if you somehow still are going to, keep it to yourself.
 
samoyed

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
iliketopaint_93 said:
Work environments that are centric to either testosterone or femininity differ in funny ways. On one hand you should either feel inclined (no pressure) to join the rowdy good frat shenanigans or prepare for belligerent debates every day until possibly being fired (unless you're a 10 of course). On the other end of the continuum, your unintentional body language alone might be enough to throw you out on your ass - one wrong swivel of the head, maybe a few times at most, and congratulations on being scum of the earth who deserves no dignity or job any more.Fair enough.
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Translated:

Work environments can be openly chauvanist or overbearingly prudish. Sometimes you'll fine it conducive to behave as one would in a frat house, and be drawn into spirited, machismo-filled debates, until one day you speak out against the wrong person who possesses the influence to terminate you (unless you are very attractive). Alternatively, you might land in an office that will immediately reprimand you for any remotely unseemly behavior and tarnish your reputation forever after a few such incidences. Such is life.
 
iliketopaint_93

iliketopaint_93

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Member
Sep 3, 2018
597
Is it possible that what makes these conversations sorta confusing sometimes is that creepy is a subjective description?
 

Deleted member 48897

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iliketopaint_93 said:
Is it possible that what makes these conversations sorta confusing sometimes is that creepy is a subjective description?
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I mean...sure I guess; there's a reason that a lot of sexual harassment policies say that a victim's first step is to clarify to a guy that no what he's doing is not appropriate or respectful.
What the OP was saying his friend was doing in his own words was not something that should be tolerated in a professional setting
 

Deleted member 9330

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6,990
ggundam8 said:
People could even take what you wrote as sexual harassment. There is no truly PC way to attract a mate. If you worry about being pc all the time you are going to be just a friend all the time. You have to cross the line and touch a hand sometimes. I have been called gay multiple times by women because I was respecting their space and not being as aggressive as other dudes around me. However, like you said you got to read the room and keep the workplace professional.

This thread is toxic and should be closed.
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Dude I know you're banned and all

But as someone who has been thought of as gay many times throughout life because I'm not outwardly masculine (read: aggressive)

Who gives a shit. Like really who cares. If sometimes being mistaken as gay is a side-effect of not perpetuating a misogynistic culture, then like, cool. That's an easy trade-off to make.

(I've also found that the most worthwhile women don't interpret your lack of toxic masculinity as being gay in the first place, because they recognize that you don't need to be some macho bro to be considered straight. Just saying.)
 
iliketopaint_93

iliketopaint_93

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Member
Sep 3, 2018
597
sabrina said:
Misogyny is a subset of poor social skills, and neither excuse the other.
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This is a condescending reply because you're assuming I'm too dumb to have reached that conclusion on my own. Don't do that.

Also, misogyny can be a cause of shitty social skills, but my point is it's not a quantifiable claim that anyone with poor social skills is inherently misogynistic (or a bigot at all).
 
sabrina

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
iliketopaint_93 said:
This is a condescending reply because you're assuming I'm too dumb to have reached that conclusion on my own. Don't do that.

Also, misogyny can be a cause of shitty social skills, but my point is it's not a quantifiable claim that anyone with poor social skills is inherently misogynistic (or a bigot at all).
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If you don't like people making assumptions about you, don't turn right around and make assumptions about them.

I'm not assuming you're too dumb to reach that conclusion. I'm assuming you're too bigoted to agree with it.
 
The Statesman

The Statesman

Member
Aug 5, 2018
70
Trumplandia
I'm comfortable saying your friend is a "complete" idiot who deserved to be reprimanded.

Normally I'd recommend just being professional, but I don't want to hold him to a standard he may be incapable of meeting.

If it's a new girl and he wanted you to see her could have texted you, "Have you seen the new girl? Complete ten."


You said it's a small office so it shouldn't be hard to figure who that would be.
 
rjinaz

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,410
Phoenix
iliketopaint_93 said:
This is a condescending reply because you're assuming I'm too dumb to have reached that conclusion on my own. Don't do that.

Also, misogyny can be a cause of shitty social skills, but my point is it's not a quantifiable claim that anyone with poor social skills is inherently misogynistic (or a bigot at all).
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Nah.

Context doesn't matter when it comes to bigotry or misogyny. He didn't know any better, is no excuse. If somebody said "well Black people DO tend to be more lazy" I'd still say fuck you just the same as somebody that suggested that it's ok to give numbers to women in the work place because you're socially awkward and don't know any better.
 
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Salmonax

Salmonax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,088
iliketopaint_93 said:
Work environments that are centric to either testosterone or femininity differ in funny ways. On one hand you should either feel inclined (no pressure) to join the rowdy good frat shenanigans or prepare for belligerent debates every day until possibly being fired (unless you're a 10 of course). On the other end of the continuum, your unintentional body language alone might be enough to throw you out on your ass - one wrong swivel of the head, maybe a few times at most, and congratulations on being scum of the earth who deserves no dignity or job any more.Fair enough.
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Wut.
 
Salmonax

Salmonax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,088
rjinaz said:
You mean you have some how managed to NOT be accused of sexual harassment just by being a male that works with females? You my friend apparently are a rare case deserving of study! What is your secret?!
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Gather 'round, my friends, and I shall tell you a story.*



*of being a reasonable person
 
weemadarthur

weemadarthur

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
iliketopaint_93 said:
Work environments that are centric to either testosterone or femininity differ in funny ways. On one hand you should either feel inclined (no pressure) to join the rowdy good frat shenanigans or prepare for belligerent debates every day until possibly being fired (unless you're a 10 of course). On the other end of the continuum, your unintentional body language alone might be enough to throw you out on your ass - one wrong swivel of the head, maybe a few times at most, and congratulations on being scum of the earth who deserves no dignity or job any more.Fair enough.
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Are you saying women are judgemental and hard to understand? I'm having a hard time parsing the "unintentional body language" thing, but it seems to be attached to your version of the "femininity" end of the spectrum.
 

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L Thammy

L Thammy

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Oct 25, 2017
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Nephtis

Nephtis

Banned
Dec 27, 2017
679
Zeyphersan said:
Dude I know you're banned and all

But as someone who has been thought of as gay many times throughout life because I'm not outwardly masculine (read: aggressive)

Who gives a shit. Like really who cares. If sometimes being mistaken as gay is a side-effect of not perpetuating a misogynistic culture, then like, cool. That's an easy trade-off to make.

(I've also found that the most worthwhile women don't interpret your lack of toxic masculinity as being gay in the first place, because they recognize that you don't need to be some macho bro to be considered straight. Just saying.)
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I can't tell you how many times people legit thought I am gay at work. I picked up a coworker and we went to a bar with some other coworkers. While driving out there we talked about things like her divorce, how it's been getting back into the dating scene etc. We arrive at the bar, have drinks and I drove her back to her home (I don't drink a lot so I'm fine with being dd). Apparently a few days later she had a chat with someone else and she was surprised I didn't hit on her or make any kind of advances. She then reasoned I must be gay. She wanted me to make a move on her but I have no interest in involving romance at work. There's been a lot of instances like that, and even my supervisor thought I was gay because gossip I guess. I don't give a shit about it. I'm confident in my sexuality and although I am straight, I don't care what sexual orientation others think I have.

It's incredible how much the workplace will play a role in reinforcing stereotypes, and in other places it goes to the other extreme. It can be very difficult to find the right balance, but there is a reason why professionalism exists.
 
Surfinn

Surfinn

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Oct 25, 2017
28,590
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iliketopaint_93 said:
Work environments that are centric to either testosterone or femininity differ in funny ways. On one hand-
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Yeah let me stop you right there. There is no "on one hand" in what is being described in the OP.

His friend harassed a woman at work by gawking at her, whether intentional or not.

"both sides" isn't applicable in this context.
 

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Yerba_Sutra said:
Oh my god I was a bit too nervous to ever open that thread. Is it hilariously bad enough to read or depressing enough to avoid?
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I think it has per capita a higher level of douchiness but nobody is douchey as boat douche. In terms of individual levels, nobody is ever douchier than a boat douche, especially one in the middle of a midlife crisis and planning to get away from his wife and not-even-yet-in-school daughter for a year. Except for the one who doesn't even know how to boat but is sure he'll be good at boat, like in that thread.

I'm not sure the looks vs. personality thread is funnier than it is sadder. I think it's kinda sad actually.
 

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Nephtis said:
I can't tell you how many times people legit thought I am gay at work. I picked up a coworker and we went to a bar with some other coworkers. While driving out there we talked about things like her divorce, how it's been getting back into the dating scene etc. We arrive at the bar, have drinks and I drove her back to her home (I don't drink a lot so I'm fine with being dd). Apparently a few days later she had a chat with someone else and she was surprised I didn't hit on her or make any kind of advances. She then reasoned I must be gay. She wanted me to make a move on her but I have no interest in involving romance at work. There's been a lot of instances like that, and even my supervisor thought I was gay because gossip I guess. I don't give a shit about it. I'm confident in my sexuality and although I am straight, I don't care what sexual orientation others think I have.

It's incredible how much the workplace will play a role in reinforcing stereotypes, and in other places it goes to the other extreme. It can be very difficult to find the right balance, but there is a reason why professionalism exists.
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Yep. It's taken a long time to be confident enough in my sexuality to not care if people think I'm gay, but now that I'm here GOD is it freeing. I don't have to front, or pretend to go along with it when guys are doing the shit in the OP, it's wonderful. Highly recommended.

Also that exact same situation hasn't happened to me, but it totally would. I'm also not about workplace romance, so I would have done the same thing and probably caused the same assumptions.
 
alzabo

alzabo

Member
Dec 31, 2017
180
Keep her behind a glass partition and throw peanuts at her to see if she likes them. Never actually speak to her.
 
Lady Catherine de Bourgh

Lady Catherine de Bourgh

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Oct 27, 2017
832
iliketopaint_93 said:
It was inappropriate and tinged with misogyny. Sometimes the line between appropriate and inappropriate or misogynistic or just poor social skills can be blurrier though.
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That may be, but in the end I will be responding to behaviour that is both unprofessional and making me feel uncomfortable. I will not be doing a root cause analysis to determine if the behaviour is rooted in poor social skills or misogyny.
 

Deleted member 48897

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I have long believed that "awkwardness" is just a cover anyway. Dudes know what they're doing. They've used flimsy excuses for bad behavior to try to milk sympathy since they were kids.
 
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