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RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,649
Of course it's a lie, but it's a lie that harms no-one in the end; the women who responded to either Bob's account or the second 100% fake account were met with either confirmation that they were being 'played' or the typical ghosting response that is highly prominent in dating apps. Yet you dismissed another more wide-spread scenario where the lies actually harmed both the person being lied to and the overall dating scene as merely 'rude'. I quoted that post just to highlight the blatant double-standard on display.
I'm well aware that minorities have it rougher on dating apps (and many areas of life in general) but as a man I'm not comfortable singling women out and speaking on "the problem with women" or whatever when our own house is in such bad order.
And if you seriously don't think women have the capability of being toxic on dating apps then you're dismissing the lived experiences of many men throughout the world who have either been discriminated against due to things they can't control (race and height being the two most obvious) or who have simply had a bad experience themselves. I doubt that you honestly think someone going "I won't date non-white and/or short men," isn't toxicity. It's definitely interesting that all you can muster to dismiss this story is "fake news!"
I mean, if you don't think it's a good idea to be skeptical of unverified stories on the internet, I don't know what to tell you, chalk it up to whatever you want.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,278
I'm well aware that minorities have it rougher on dating apps (and many areas of life in general) but as a man I'm not comfortable singling women out and speaking on "the problem with women" or whatever when our own house is in such bad order.

So you're basically saying that people should first 'fix' other people that they share a common aspect with before they can speak out about discrimination themselves?

...yikes.

I mean, if you don't think it's a good idea to be skeptical of unverified stories on the internet, I don't know what to tell you, chalk it up to whatever you want.

Skepticism and shouting "fake news!" are two entirely different things.
 
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RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,649
Skepticism and shouting "fake news!" are two entirely different things.
...I never said "fake news!", nor did I shout.
So you're basically saying that people should first 'fix' other people that they share a common aspect with before they can speak out about discrimination themselves?

...yikes.
I cannot converse in good faith with you if you continually extrapolate to the most uncharitable interpretation of my posts.
 
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Cow Mengde

Cow Mengde

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,705
...I never said "fake news!", nor did I shout.

I cannot converse in good faith with you if you continually extrapolate to the most uncharitable interpretation of my posts.

You literally said it was ok for women to trick men into dates for free meals, then turn around and say it's wrong to use a fake account just to test people's reaction.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,649
You literally said it was ok for women to trick men into dates for free meals, then turn around and say it's wrong to use a fake account just to test people's reaction.
That is an entirely different thread about an entirely different thing with entirely different context. If you want to debate about my posts in that thread, we can do so in that thread, I had multiple posts in that thread and cannot distill my overall opinion on that situation to a few lines, nor does one linked post accurately reflect my position.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,278
...I never said "fake news!", nor did I shout.
I think this is fake as hell
And of course you didn't shout; that was a figure of speech.
I cannot converse in good faith with you if you continually extrapolate to the most uncharitable interpretation of my posts.

You said that racial discrimination (alongside height discrimination and simple regular toxicity) can be dismissed as something that shouldn't be highlighted because "men don't have their house in order." On a personal level you're telling 'Bob' and the other people sharing their stories that, because they share a common trait with misogynistic men, they are 'singling women out' and speaking on 'the problem of women,' and are, therefore, doing something wrong for highlighting the discrimination they face. This is despite the fact that racial discrimination in dating is not, and never has been, said to be a 'women-only' problem; people, white people most especially, of all non-ace sexualities are liable to discriminate because of the other person's race.

Frankly if you don't want your posts to be viewed uncharitably then don't make uncharitable hypocritical posts in the first place (and they are hypocritical despite your unsubstantiated claims that the other thread is 'entirely' different).

EDIT: And the 'singling women out' and 'the problem of women' claims are entirely false as the blog post itself directly addresses those potential concerns:

So then it must mean all the women are horrible people, right? Nah. Bob said it best, it's a competition and he just couldn't compete. With all the guys on the site, girls can be choosy. It's their right. Women don't have it easy either. Besides the creeps and freaks, they have to deal with harassment and verbal abuse from guys that can't handle rejection. They get a crazy amount of messages to filter through, and that can't be easy. With my fake guy, I was able to engage multiple girls in a conversation, and even that felt tiring. Bob also considered the population problem. There will always be more guys than girls in online dating. I wasn't able to find any real reliable numbers, but it's always whispered to be 10 guys for every 1 girl. At least 9 people will come out empty handed.
 
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Deleted member 2625

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
You literally said it was ok for women to trick men into dates for free meals, then turn around and say it's wrong to use a fake account just to test people's reaction.
yup
That is an entirely different thread about an entirely different thing with entirely different context. If you want to debate about my posts in that thread, we can do so in that thread, I had multiple posts in that thread and cannot distill my overall opinion on that situation to a few lines, nor does one linked post accurately reflect my position.

uhhhh.... that is exactly how I read it too, FYI. hard to deny. don't backtrack just own it
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,065
I'm really confused about the 'creepiness' tirade the articles goes into later on.
You're viewing information a bunch of strangers volunteered for the sole purpose of you viewing it (and vice versa), what exactly is supposed to be creepy about this exchange? What's next - people checking each other out in clubs is considered 'creepy' as well?
 

WizardofPeace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
969
Honestly I was a little confused about why this man was having such a hard time finding dates, until I got to the well ya he's a short asian and I kept that hidden for most of the story. I'm not a 100 percent sure where they live, but of they're in America, I can probably see why he was having trouble finding someone.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,649
yup


uhhhh.... that is exactly how I read it too, FYI. hard to deny. don't backtrack just own it
...You read one post. My first post in the thread said it sounded rude. I said that us as men should get our house in order before targeting women, consistent with my position here. disagreed with the assertion that it was inherently malicious and men were getting nothing out of the deal or being "tricked" as they are initially owed nothing. I do not believe women are sharing meals with people they absolutely despise.

Again, if you want to relitigate that thread, we can do so in that thread, where there is proper context to have the discussion rather than sharing out of context quotes as some sort of "gotcha" between two entirely separate scenarios.
 

Doober

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,295
I'm really confused about the 'creepiness' tirade the articles goes into later on.
You're viewing information a bunch of strangers volunteered for the sole purpose of you viewing it (and vice versa), what exactly is supposed to be creepy about this exchange? What's next - people checking each other out in clubs is considered 'creepy' as well?

The less conventionally attractive you are, the easier it is to be considered creepy.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,278
The less conventionally attractive you are, the easier it is to be considered creepy.

Yep. Even as an asexual personal I know this feeling all too well. My low self worth (and the massive amounts of self-awareness that come from it) has me feeling 'creepy' quite regularly and it really sucks. It can end up feeling like your presence is unwanted even though you aren't personally doing anything to make that so; the voyeuristic aspects of modern online dating would most probably enhance that feeling, I can imagine.
 

methane47

Member
Oct 28, 2017
875
This is why tinder is much better for dating imho.

Men can swipe away to their heart's content and not care about reading profiles... Just swipe left every single profile everyday. It's a much more passive game for men. Less of a time sink.

I would recommend that guy to do tinder instead.. take some great pics, don't bother with.a profile.. maybe put one or two words and hope for the best. Then swipe swipe swipe.

You only get a response if the girl is interested. So you can pick and choose who to respond to if you do get responses.

The goal of online dating for cisgender guys should be... Make as many connections as quick as possible. In the game of dating it's a buyer's market for women
 

pizoxuat

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,458
I met my fiance on Tinder, and he is an Asian man. He has told me how hard it was before we connected, though. I cared more about someone's profile sparking something to make me curious about them than anything else, which I know means I wasn't using Tinder right. Except I did meet someone I want to marry, so maybe I was!
 
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Cow Mengde

Cow Mengde

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,705
I'm really confused about the 'creepiness' tirade the articles goes into later on.
You're viewing information a bunch of strangers volunteered for the sole purpose of you viewing it (and vice versa), what exactly is supposed to be creepy about this exchange? What's next - people checking each other out in clubs is considered 'creepy' as well?

If you read up on what they wrote, it makes sense. The site makes it known that you're viewing someone's profile. But if you choose to hide, you also won't know who viewed you. The site lets you know someone viewed you, but you need to pay money to see who viewed your profile while you remain hidden. The site knows exactly what its doing. I don't know if OKC still does that, but I've browsed the site to test the waters too years ago. I saw that write up, and quickly deleted my account.

I tried Hinge recently and never felt like a creep though. It's probably an OKC thing. Thinking about it more, it does look like they do it on purpose and created the creep factor just to make you pay.

I work in the industry. 99% of what you see is fake.

Plz respond.
 

WizardofPeace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
969
I met my fiance on Tinder, and he is an Asian man. He has told me how hard it was before we connected, though. I cared more about someone's profile sparking something to make me curious about them than anything else, which I know means I wasn't using Tinder right. Except I did meet someone I want to marry, so maybe I was!

You found your love! Of course you were using it right and at the end of the day that's all that matters. Congrats friend!!
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,563
Sweden
if you're not at least 7 feet tall, 18 inch dick and a billionaire with a dehydrated Hugh Jackman body, just accept that your destiny is to be alone
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
White, not tall - around 5'8" or so - and currently kinda chubby.

I do realize my experience could be a bit skewed, but I do think if people just go in not expecting too much and roll with the punches they can at least strike up some conversations with a chance of meetups. I've never had anyone ask my height, and I don't look tall in my pics, so I dunno.
Then none of what is in that post applies to you. Being white and of average height means you will never experience what a short, Asian man experiences in online dating.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
He is making fun of short guys.
Shaming and ridiculing short men is not frown upon. He saw a topic that tangentially involved short height on men, so he felt the need to post that video to be 'funny'.

Back in the previous place, there would be people already saying stuff like 'manlets never learn', etc., I'm glad that behaviour has at least been moderated here, which as a short guy myself makes me more comfortable.
That behavior should be banworthy. It's fucked up.
 

Swig

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,495
This is why tinder is much better for dating imho.

Men can swipe away to their heart's content and not care about reading profiles... Just swipe left every single profile everyday. It's a much more passive game for men. Less of a time sink.

I would recommend that guy to do tinder instead.. take some great pics, don't bother with.a profile.. maybe put one or two words and hope for the best. Then swipe swipe swipe.

You only get a response if the girl is interested. So you can pick and choose who to respond to if you do get responses.

The goal of online dating for cisgender guys should be... Make as many connections as quick as possible. In the game of dating it's a buyer's market for women


I think it varies from area to area...

A few months ago my gf broke up with me out of nowhere (she realized that she made a mistake and we ended up getting back together after two months) and I had a short stint using dating apps during that time. I'm a tall, pretty handsome white guy with a good job, so I thought that I would be swimming in women. It was hard even for me. I'd send messages to some girls who I thought were about my same level of attractiveness or sometimes a little lower (I just wanted to find someone long term, so meeting someone nice and cool was higher on my list than finding the hottest girl I could). Tinder was the worst app. I never met anyone and never had any meaningful conversations with anyone on that app. I got a lot of matches and conversations on OKC, but it was all superficial and nothing meaningful. POF was a waste of time, too and had a TON of bots and fake profiles.

Bumble and Hinge were the best for me. I actually liked Bumble because women had to contact me first, so I would only begin a conversation if they were actually interested in the first place, so I could swipe and forget about it until I had a match and a message. I had several dates from those two apps and met a girl who I may have dated long term if not for my ex getting back with me.

But yeah, Tinder was a gigantic waste of time in my area. If I were single again, I don't know if I'd even bother using it.

The goal of online dating for cisgender guys should be... Make as many connections as quick as possible. In the game of dating it's a buyer's market for women

This can't be stressed enough. It's a numbers game. Just match with as many women as you can (that you're interested in) and hope that a few of them respond.
 

Doober

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,295
if you're not at least 7 feet tall, 18 inch dick and a billionaire with a dehydrated Hugh Jackman body, just accept that your destiny is to be alone

Look, I despise the whole system but it's not THAT bad.
This is why tinder is much better for dating imho.

Men can swipe away to their heart's content and not care about reading profiles... Just swipe left every single profile everyday. It's a much more passive game for men. Less of a time sink.

I would recommend that guy to do tinder instead.. take some great pics, don't bother with.a profile.. maybe put one or two words and hope for the best. Then swipe swipe swipe.

You only get a response if the girl is interested. So you can pick and choose who to respond to if you do get responses.

The goal of online dating for cisgender guys should be... Make as many connections as quick as possible. In the game of dating it's a buyer's market for women

I used to think this was a shitty thing to do, but after considering what a confidence-draining timesink trying to use these apps earnestly can be, I'm coming around to it.
 

TheAndyMan

Banned
Feb 11, 2019
1,082
Utah
Yep. Even as an asexual personal I know this feeling all too well. My low self worth (and the massive amounts of self-awareness that come from it) has me feeling 'creepy' quite regularly and it really sucks. It can end up feeling like your presence is unwanted even though you aren't personally doing anything to make that so; the voyeuristic aspects of modern online dating would most probably enhance that feeling, I can imagine.
This. I'm a bit busy now, but I think I saw a similar article about this.
Edit: Here's a link to the paper.
Definitions of "creepiness" tended to revolve around the theme of "differentness" as indicated by socially unacceptable or non-normative behaviours (e.g., staring, inappropriate comments, invasion of personal space), and odd physical appearance as suggested by poor hygiene, dishevelment, and general unattractiveness.

In line with Hassin and Trope's (2000) findings, participants reported gathering information from the face when making judgments of "creepiness."

The fact that facial areas not typically related to physical strength were more often associated with "creepiness" than those reliably linked to threat judgments, further suggests that there are different processes at work when one is evaluating "creepiness" versus threat or trustworthiness. It may be that "creepiness" is more an emotionally based versus physically based judgment; reliant on emotional information gathered from certain key facial features of an individual.

The present study found support for the putative association between physical attractiveness and judgments of trustworthiness (Porter et al., 2009). Physical attractiveness correlated positively and strongly with trustworthiness ratings. This fits with the stereotype that physically attractive people possess other positive attributes (e.g., intelligence, kindness), which tends to garner them preferential treatment and tangible benefits. Support was found for a negative correlation between "creepiness" and attractiveness with one of the picture groups.
 
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PancakeFlip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,918
I don't remembering it being THIS bad, but by the time I was done with it I was so burnt out I started flaking girls back and figured I'd be more willing to make things happen with girls I ask out in person. Its just an all around toxic experience. Several years later I had found my wife and a year or two after our marriage I had gotten a response from a girl I had messaged and had a convo with YEARS ago, I mean who the hell waits YEARS later to reply?
 

dabbert

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
268
god i remember meeting this girl on OKC like the ones in that tumblr and it seemed okay but then I figured out she was only dating me because i lived near her job and she didn't like pooping there so was just continuing dating me as a convenient place to drop trou
 

TickleMeElbow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,668
It's true that a lot of chicks will write off Asian dudes without even thinking about it. It's an immediate "no". Like you're basically a 12 year old to them lol.
 

Nilou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,715
I want to know what magic pills these women who get dozens of matches daily, can swipe left to their hearts content and have it so so easy. As a woman who's been trying 3 different dating apps combined for almost 5 months now I've been on 2 dates total, the last one being 3 months ago. Am lucky to get any guy/girl to message/swipe me maybe once every other week. Couldn't care less about anyone's heights, weights, skin color, race (the 2 guys I went on 1 date with were 5'6 and 5'4 and I asked a 5'2 guy if he wanted to, but was a no), I DID get 3 guys tell me i should kill myself and literally spout nazi eugenics at me. I'm an average weight, okay looks I'd assume, but still what magic world does everyone live in where women have it so much easier on dating apps then men because I missed my invite.
 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,010
Like meeting people in clubs, I feel online dating is heavily appearance-based. Which isn't the fault of anyone - it's just how it is.

I personally found (way too late in life) that quieter bars and such were better for me in terms of meeting women solely because you could have an actual conversation. Whether it turns into something or not is another story, but you have a better chance since people are (imo) more willing to look past initial attraction when you have that space.

Online dating - like social media - distills a person down to a few key things. Many people who are extremely superficial on dating apps may look for deeper things if they're talking to you irl.

Just some thoughts.
 

Deleted member 46493

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
5,231
Like meeting people in clubs, I feel online dating is heavily appearance-based. Which isn't the fault of anyone - it's just how it is.

I personally found (way too late in life) that quieter bars and such were better for me in terms of meeting women solely because you could have an actual conversation. Whether it turns into something or not is another story, but you have a better chance since people are (imo) more willing to look past initial attraction when you have that space.

Online dating - like social media - distills a person down to a few key things. Many people who are extremely superficial on dating apps may look for deeper things if they're talking to you irl.

Just some thoughts.
This is one of those obvious things you miss thinking about if you only online date. I realized this fact when a few female friends of mine started dating people they met IRL that they would've swiped left on a dating app for sure.
 

Deleted member 46493

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
5,231
Did they say that or is that just an observation you made?
Made the observation, and noted it to them as they're close friends. People are just pickier and put up more walls with online dating, and not everyone is photogenic or is able to take good pictures.

Guys are guilty of this too btw. I have friends who swipe left on women (or men) based on their job, but will have a long conversation with someone they meet IRL before asking them what their job is and then not caring.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,490
So is he more shocked that the average guy got less views/responses than the good looking guy or that the Asian guy got less responses than the White guy?

Does anyone have a link to the OKC article he talks about? The link in the post is dead.
 

Cromat

Member
Mar 17, 2019
677
Is it really surprising to anyone that short Asian men aren't the most desirable by today's beauty standards?

Is it surprising that women care about looks? Does Bob from the article not also constantly reject women on the basis of looks?

Looks matter more than anything on online dating. In real-life there's more ways to work around it. Not really news to pretty much all adults?
 

TickleMeElbow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,668
Is it really surprising to anyone that short Asian men aren't the most desirable by today's beauty standards?

Is it surprising that women care about looks? Does Bob from the article not also constantly reject women on the basis of looks?

Looks matter more than anything on online dating. In real-life there's more ways to work around it. Not really news to pretty much all adults?

The guy who lost the bet seemed pretty surprised.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,109
The part about a lot of womens' profiles being dull and derivative is definitely true. Everyone is fluent in sarcasm, loves traveling, and will pet my dog.

You can really tell that they don't typically have to put much effort into it to get results.

I never really online dated, but I think it would be hard to say whether or not that would be because they don't "have" to put in effort.

First impression are important, and I'm sure it's scary putting yourself out there by having a unique profile. I imagine if I were trying dating apps I would focus on just getting a first date with people I was attracted to. You'll discover each other's personalities in person. Getting base level stuff that gives you some indication of whether or not you may be a match (what do you do for fun, how social are you, etc) seems way more useful than reinventing the wheel. Plus, going out of your way to put together a unique profile could be seen as desperate.

I've heard mens' profiles contain many common themes as well.
 

Doober

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,295
I never really online dated, but I think it would be hard to say whether or not that would be because they don't "have" to put in effort.

First impression are important, and I'm sure it's scary putting yourself out there by having a unique profile. I imagine if I were trying dating apps I would focus on just getting a first date with people I was attracted to. You'll discover each other's personalities in person. Getting base level stuff that gives you some indication of whether or not you may be a match (what do you do for fun, how social are you, etc) seems way more useful than reinventing the wheel. Plus, going out of your way to put together a unique profile could be seen as desperate.

I've heard mens' profiles contain many common themes as well.

All the advice I've ever heard offered to men on these things (aside from being hot) is to be unique. Not just in your bio but in your messages as well. It's kind of pounded into our heads that we're all lame and boring and that no woman will want that.

So when you read their bios and they're often, well... lame and boring... :-/
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,109
All the advice I've ever heard offered to men on these things (aside from being hot) is to be unique. Not just in your bio but in your messages as well. It's kind of pounded into our heads that we're all lame and boring and that no woman will want that.

So when you read their bios and they're often, well... lame and boring... :-/

Sounds like a platitude to me. Just generic advice without much of anything to back it up. I really doubt women are being advised to be ordinary, or are going out of their way to purposefully seem generic.

I'm not familiar with this mass circulation of the idea that all men are lame and boring, sorry you have to deal with that.
 
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Cow Mengde

Cow Mengde

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,705
It may explain why so many seem so similar, pics scraped from instagram accounts to build profiles.

This is what I'm suspecting as well. Maybe all the boring profiles from women are from fakes created to make the platform seem populated. I mean, where do you even start when you're brand new. Like who would use it if there's nobody on it when you're first starting out? After reading that and the recent thread about online dating profiles, I think I'm also suspicious of all the women on these things.
 

devilhawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,536
This is what I'm suspecting as well. Maybe all the boring profiles from women are from fakes created to make the platform seem populated. I mean, where do you even start when you're brand new. Like who would use it if there's nobody on it when you're first starting out? After reading that and the recent thread about online dating profiles, I think I'm also suspicious of all the women on these things.
A few years back Tinder/Bumble were infected with bots, but I think they have been pretty good at removing them. It does seem like there are far more "empty" profiles now. Where you question if there is anyone at all on the other end. Could be from people who aren't active on the app or they could be fake (but not bots). Interestingly, I have seen friend's profiles show up despite them swearing that they uninstalled the app.
 
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Cow Mengde

Cow Mengde

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,705
A few years back Tinder/Bumble were infected with bots, but I think they have been pretty good at removing them. It does seem like there are far more "empty" profiles now. Where you question if there is anyone at all on the other end. Could be from people who aren't active on the app or they could be fake (but not bots). Interestingly, I have seen friend's profiles show up despite them swearing that they uninstalled the app.

I don't think uninstalling the app does anything though. You have to delete your account for your profile to be removed.
 

devilhawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,536
I don't think uninstalling the app does anything though. You have to delete your account for your profile to be removed.
Correct. But I've had friends claim they deleted the profile. They could certainly have been mistaken though.

I do think there's a decent number of inactive profiles - whether they be fake, incorrectly deleted, just forgotten, or something else. Interestingly, I recall the apps getting rid of their "last active" features all about the same time, which would shed light on that.
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,684
EDIT: And if you want some definite proof then here's a chart from an article that was linked in the blog itself (it's 404'ed now but it's from official OKC sources):

4MocK2K.png
As a black man, seeing this shit makes me depressed. I did get some likes when I was on Okcupid, but it wasn't much. Not going to bother with dating apps again until I get in better shape and get my recent braces removed in a year.
 

SaraNWrap

Alt account
Banned
Jan 30, 2019
665
Black dude in Orange County here, this shit isn't news, basically invisible in the area i'm in. Fuck out in public I have to make sure I don't look intimidating or scary to people, much less attractive.