Okay yeah now I remember.
I had meant before release like Sun and Moon.
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"A Message for Pokémon Video Game Fans" - by Junichi Masuda (It's Nothing) [See Staff Post for Discussion Guidelines]
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I had meant before release like Sun and Moon.
Good thing hashtag spamming a video game executive because of a decision that pisses off the fans and actively makes the game worse is protest and not harassment. Let's not even get into how horribly they handled the whole thing and continue to handle it which only stokes the flames.
This corporate defense needs to stop, the majority of people spamming his twitter are not attacking him, they are customers making their voices heard. We can talk about the people actually harassing him without lumping the majority of consumers that don't want to get fucked with those people.
You tried to make this argument with Let's Go and we all saw how that went with its joke of a post game
To some degree, but it also makes it more important to continue because they clearly haven't gotten the message yet.
Not buying a game solves nothing. It's kind of ridiculous too that people think it's as easy as that. If a product from your beloved franchise is not up to par then you create discussion about it. People are just equating almost any negative discussion as being toxic now though lol.
Ill be buying the game because it looks a shit ton better than the mess that Lets Go was, but it doesn't mean I'm going to sit here and just accept whatever GF graciously decide to include in the game. Almost everything about this game is great except for the missing Pokémon any ways. It really isn't as simple as not buying the game.
Same, I've not posted a single reply to one of Masuda's tweets and only posted a few to the Pokemon Twitter back during E3. Now I mainly just post about it on this site and the occasional tweet that isn't even a reply to anybody.
I also as a whole don't really give a fuck about the disappointing graphics and animation, or at least I wouldn't if we had all of the Pokemon. Instead we get disappointing visuals AND less Pokemon.
Less of what you personally want is significantly different from "less content" in general, which is generally the argument people are making. I wish more people were talking about the national dex stuff instead of just using it as an opportunity to shit on the IP as a whole.
This just reminds me of how people love to disregard complaints from people that are "Just going to buy it anyways." As if still buying the game means someone's criticism doesn't matter.
Yes, discuss it to death on forums like this. No, do not spam the developers about your displeasure in response to every single thing they post.
Negative discussion on your own forums or Twitter or wherever else are just fine. Understanding that the decision has been made and being done with the series if you can't accept it is also fine.
The content people care the most is Pokémon considering how this is the first time for a controversy like this in the franchise. So, to them, this is basically cutting the content they care the most after for years being told by developers that this was a high priority to the devs.
And I agree that I wish that was the focus because getting the Pokémon back with patches is the only thing I consider "possible" to fix SwSh, but this is blowing up all small frustrations fans have with Pokémon over the 3DS years. Weak post-games, the BF stuff in ORAS, the Kanto pandering, etc, people had several complaints to the series, but these never became "big" because as long as the core (the Pokémon) was there, people put up with things, Dexit is bringing up 3 generations of criticism to the spotlight.
Honestly I think even doing that kind of a nod towards the Battle Frontier in ORAS:
Didn't sit right with me personally. I would have been happier if they just didn't mention it period. Sure they can say time is different in the ORAS dimension or something like that, but dang that was such an unneeded tease lol.
Didn't sit right with me personally. I would have been happier if they just didn't mention it period. Sure they can say time is different in the ORAS dimension or something like that, but dang that was such an unneeded tease lol.
Its like playing an MMO. You get the white knights that tell you everything is ok, that if you dont like what the devs are doing then you can move on, that they dont care about any criticism because for them everything is close to perfect. A few months later, the MMO is barren and people have moved on to the next 'big' thing - white knights included. And the cycle continues.
I think criticism is good and I think its hilarious people are beginning to equate any criticism as being toxic - case in point with the hashtag being harassment? Jesus.
I mean at the end of the day, if you are happy with what you are getting from the game, whats wrong with other people arguing for MORE things in the game?
Yes it is. I replied to one single tweet, that was not even to the dev or the pokemon conpany, saying that I wish rayquaza was in the game, and immediately started to get harassed and insulted for this so called pokemon fans, under the excuse that I was being entitled.
in the last day on this forum alone ive seen someone claiming "more than half are gone", someone proudly proclaiming that hes going to "shitpost in every discussion", meme images that make very little sense and a bunch of people making arguments in bad faith in an attempt to disregard the more hateful fans and lazy dev type rhetoric. I cant even think of another instance that's comparable to this with a new unreleased game other than the last Pokemon game on Switch which was also so bad that people didn't even want to go into threads about the game, and I left the board for a few months. Its long beyond a simple protest even on more moderated sites like ERA, and a total shitshow everywhere else.
I still dont see whats wrong with spamming displeasure even if it is a done decision. I personally think that the decision to remove some pokemon is the only bad one in a sea of good things about the new games. Im not on twitter but I dont think its wrong to constantly bring up the idea that it is a BAD decision. Why would I accept this so that they can do this to other games in the series from now on? Even if the decision is set for this game, there is always a chance it may change in the next game.
Spamming on forums that devs will not even visit does nothing to voice what I, and others, believe is a bad decision. Twitter is the most direct way to share displeasure at the decision lol.
But isnt it pretty telling that the controversial removal of some Pokemon is pretty much the core of most complaints? Almost everything else shown off about SwSh has been great and a step in the right direction, just this singular decision alone has snowballed any negativity about the games over the positives.
Honestly speaking, if they didnt remove Pokemon, the community would be much less 'toxic' and negative.
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It's hilariously serendipitous that Shinx is a Pokemon people bring up all the time in this discussion, and I'm sitting here with a shiny Shinx I acquired that I was hoping to be able to add to a SwSh playthrough at some point. Even if it winds up being in the game, I could cite so many other examples of shinies I've acquired for that purpose that probably won't be included.
This was a huge disappointment and made me lower my expectations for these games a lot.Honestly I think even doing that kind of a nod towards the Battle Frontier in ORAS:
Didn't sit right with me personally. I would have been happier if they just didn't mention it period. Sure they can say time is different in the ORAS dimension or something like that, but dang that was such an unneeded tease lol.
Don't remind me that. I can almost bet that Deoxys is getting cut.
Honestly I think even doing that kind of a nod towards the Battle Frontier in ORAS:
Didn't sit right with me personally. I would have been happier if they just didn't mention it period. Sure they can say time is different in the ORAS dimension or something like that, but dang that was such an unneeded tease lol.
It was DEFINITELY seen as "ahahah you really wanted it, don't you? Too bad it's not here!" at the time.
I don't know which part of that you're struggling to comprehend
Pokemon ARE CONTENT.
Having less usable Pokemon in the game means it has less content.
It might have the most content of any Pokemon game for all we know. Previously collected Pokemon being a maybe on usability doesn't say anything as to the overall composition of the game, which is why the "20 more for less content" makes no sense whatsoever.
While it would be really upsetting that we'd have to wait that long for them to fix it and it would make Gen 8 easily the worst one going forward if that were the case, I would at least be happy that they actually reversed their decision.
If history tells us anything there probably won't be a ton of content, but hey, the enhanced versions might have lots.
Well, in that hypothetical and comically unlikely case, it would have to have a shitload of post-game content considering that the cuts absolutely neuters competitive teambuilding, which is a pretty significant amount of content for people who are into that.
And even if you don't care about competitive teambuilding, it doesn't matter. Even if you don't choose to engage with it, that's still content that won't be there, which is proof that less Pokemon = less content is an objective fact.
I guess I can't bring myself to care too much about this. The series was going to hit this logistical wall sooner or later. I've never had the need or desire to bring over Pokémon from previous generations anyway. During the main campaign, I want to use the new Pokémon, and once the post-game starts, I typically tune out since it usually lacks the exploration and discovery angle. Even filling out my Pokédex holds little appeal to me these days, since it mostly consists of engaging with the online trading system that was filled with hacked clones. Is it mostly people who play a lot of post-game who are upset by this?
TBH one of the titles I had most fun with was Black/White, the game that forced you into using only new Pokemons until post game.
If they play it on the strength of thew new Pokemons they may make at least the single player experience more enjoyable.
I guess they had a time constraint forcing them into this decision, in order to release this game not too late in the Switch lifecycle.
They will probably (?) release a "third" version of Sword/Shield (Pokemon Armor?) with more/all pokemons availability as its selling point.
If they play it on the strength of thew new Pokemons they may make at least the single player experience more enjoyable.
I guess they had a time constraint forcing them into this decision, in order to release this game not too late in the Switch lifecycle.
They will probably (?) release a "third" version of Sword/Shield (Pokemon Armor?) with more/all pokemons availability as its selling point.
it is a pretty brutal but effective trollHonestly I think even doing that kind of a nod towards the Battle Frontier in ORAS:
Didn't sit right with me personally. I would have been happier if they just didn't mention it period. Sure they can say time is different in the ORAS dimension or something like that, but dang that was such an unneeded tease lol.
it almost wraps back around to me being astonished by it instead of just sad
The difference here is that Black and White had a full Pokedex of new Pokemon and you could still get all the old ones post game, SwSh has a ton of old Pokemon and will probably have a small number of new ones like the last 2 gens.
Time is probably an issue, but it's made more of an issue because they are doing multiple HD games at once while refusing to grow to a size to make that work.
They said their plan for the franchise going forward is to never have the full roster of Pokemon in a single game again.
Honestly, at this point I just don't care anymore. Game Freak has done absolutely nothing to convince me this game is worth buying, so I'm not gonna buy it, at least not at launch. It's as simple as that.
I didn't buy USUM because it was a DLC pack sold as a separate full game less than a year after SM shipped.
I didn't buy LGPE because it retread a region that's been done to death while simultaneously removing the most interesting parts of it.
And I'm not going to buy SWSH because it's a straight downgrade from SM despite a longer development cycle and more powerful console.
The only way Game Freak will be forced to change is if they see a massive drop in sales. Many attribute the 3D games lack of a complex storyline to Gen V's weak sales, which really just proves my point. If everyone complaining on Twitter cancelled their preorders and either skipped SWSH or bought it used a few weeks later, there's zero chance that the shareholders will let Game Freak ship another game without the full dex available. If the community really wants change, then they need to be willing to not keep giving Game Freak money for subpar experiences.
I didn't buy USUM because it was a DLC pack sold as a separate full game less than a year after SM shipped.
I didn't buy LGPE because it retread a region that's been done to death while simultaneously removing the most interesting parts of it.
And I'm not going to buy SWSH because it's a straight downgrade from SM despite a longer development cycle and more powerful console.
The only way Game Freak will be forced to change is if they see a massive drop in sales. Many attribute the 3D games lack of a complex storyline to Gen V's weak sales, which really just proves my point. If everyone complaining on Twitter cancelled their preorders and either skipped SWSH or bought it used a few weeks later, there's zero chance that the shareholders will let Game Freak ship another game without the full dex available. If the community really wants change, then they need to be willing to not keep giving Game Freak money for subpar experiences.
Ok I feel yet again I need to explain how Game Freak and Pokémon development works.
Yes, Game Freak is a small company. However, over double the amount of people who work at Game Freak worked on Sun & Moon. Contrary to belief, they do outsource:
Nintendo aid in development of the complex systems including online
Creatures Inc. help with the 3D animation and model creation
They do outsource and they do get staff on when they need help.
They clearly didn't take this decision lightly. This isn't them being lazy or not having enough staff in Game Freak. Let's look at the actual facts here
Yes, Game Freak is a small company. However, over double the amount of people who work at Game Freak worked on Sun & Moon. Contrary to belief, they do outsource:
Nintendo aid in development of the complex systems including online
Creatures Inc. help with the 3D animation and model creation
They do outsource and they do get staff on when they need help.
They clearly didn't take this decision lightly. This isn't them being lazy or not having enough staff in Game Freak. Let's look at the actual facts here
Game Freak isn't a publicly traded company
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Really? Less content is not less content. That's how your statement reads.
See, Black and White had a postgame. Every gen since then as had none, or relatively very little. It's another thing that GF have taken away.
Na the games have a postgame. They just shifted it so instead of battle facilities, it's a story focused post-game.
There's much more to a games contents than the pre-existing Pokemon that you can use post-game. I have to assume that anyone who interpreted it as anything else is being intentionally obtuse.
It's hard to say they're equal at all. Delta Episode, besides its questionable quality, lasts not even 2 hours and a lot of it is dialogue.
I liked the Looker stuff in XY, but that was very short and not good enough as previous post-games. SM improved a bit because of the UBs, but also wasn't very long. Personally, I try to do every facility and in-game events in every game and it's just very weak in newer entries. That's the complaint people make, post-games are anemic.
Post-game is post-game.
Post-game we may not like is still post-game though
It's interesting to think that maybe the reason the backlash is so focused on spamming the hell out of Game Freak/Nintendo/Masuda is because Nintendo fans were kinda trained to do this.
Nintendo wasn't launching the biggest Wii RPGs in the west? Let's flood their call centers, mailboxes, comments and etc so they change their mind!
Nintendo will never re-release Earthbound for the west? Here's their phone number, let's call them everyday for 10+ years!
Tomodachi Life doesn't have gay marriage? Let's spam and hashtag the hell out of them!
Even the horrendous and ridiculous Federation Force backlash made Nintendo review their policies when announcing Metroid.
Nintendo fans are kinda conditioned to throw a fit and spam everyone related to the issue when they don't like a decision because it works. Even if it was never officially confirmed that Nintendo changed their stance on anything based on fans campaigning, it sure looks like it to them. It's still shitty when stuff happens like that fake twitter profile or fans caught in the crossfire though. That's inexcusable.
Nintendo wasn't launching the biggest Wii RPGs in the west? Let's flood their call centers, mailboxes, comments and etc so they change their mind!
Nintendo will never re-release Earthbound for the west? Here's their phone number, let's call them everyday for 10+ years!
Tomodachi Life doesn't have gay marriage? Let's spam and hashtag the hell out of them!
Even the horrendous and ridiculous Federation Force backlash made Nintendo review their policies when announcing Metroid.
Nintendo fans are kinda conditioned to throw a fit and spam everyone related to the issue when they don't like a decision because it works. Even if it was never officially confirmed that Nintendo changed their stance on anything based on fans campaigning, it sure looks like it to them. It's still shitty when stuff happens like that fake twitter profile or fans caught in the crossfire though. That's inexcusable.
Yeah instead of telling a company whose products we consume whether we like or dislike a product we should all just do this
And god forbid we let the person whose name is on the statement that this thread is based on, and is clearly the guy publicly owning the decision (not sure whether he has really made the decision, but Gamefreak is clearly using him as the fall guy for this), know what we think about this decision.
I know most people here are condemning abusing Masuda or the developers (which I haven't done and condemn anyone else doing it), but there's also a lot of people, especially in the last few pages of this thread, that are equating the voicing of a negative opinion of this game with abuse (and even worse, some are equating this with Gamergate and other abusive fan movements) and that's not okay. I'm certainly pretty mad about this personally, because this is essentially the final nail in the coffin for my association and affection with what used to be my favorite series, but I'll get over it eventually and just move on to other stuff. I've made my decision to not buy the game and I'll politely try and convince others to do the same, given that I don't think this is a direction that we should accept from Gamefreak and Pokemon. You can call that "throwing a fit" (and I don't entirely disagree with you that this happens quite often with Nintendo games), but I think this disappointment is perfectly reasonable from long time and dedicated fans of the games - who've spent hundreds of hours in the deeper mechanics like breeding, creating a living dex, competitive battling - and now feel tossed aside and taken for a ride (especially after being told clearly by Gamefreak last year that Let's Go was for a more casual audience and the next game would be for more dedicated long time fans)
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I usually do a first playthrough with the new ones, and then start again using the perfect shiny babies that I obtained in the previous generation through HOURS and HOURS of hard work. Moreover, I've been paying Pokémon Bank in part because I had the reasonable expectation of being able to move all my shiny and competitive creatures to (finally!) an HD world. Now I'll only be able to move some. It's only normal that many of us feel backstabbed.
There's lots of people on the defending side that are very close-minded regarding what constitutes the Pokémon experience for others. If so many people are so upset about this, maybe, just maybe, they have reasons.
Yeah instead of telling a company whose products we consume whether we like or dislike a product we should all just do this
And god forbid we let the person whose name is on the statement that this thread is based on, and is clearly the guy publicly owning the decision (not sure whether he has really made the decision, but Gamefreak is clearly using him as the fall guy for this), know what we think about this decision.
I know most people here are condemning abusing Masuda or the developers (which I haven't done and condemn anyone else doing it), but there's also a lot of people, especially in the last few pages of this thread, that are equating the voicing of a negative opinion of this game with abuse (and even worse, some are equating this with Gamergate and other abusive fan movements) and that's not okay. I'm certainly pretty mad about this personally, because this is essentially the final nail in the coffin for my association and affection with what used to be my favorite series, but I'll get over it eventually and just move on to other stuff. I've made my decision to not buy the game and I'll politely try and convince others that this is not a direction or behavior we should accept from Gamefreak and Pokemon. You can call that "throwing a fit" (and I don't entirely disagree with you that this happens quite often with Nintendo games), but I think this disappointment is perfectly reasonable from long time and dedicated fans of the games - who've spent hundreds of hours in the deeper mechanics like breeding, creating a living dex, competitive battling - and now feel tossed aside and taken for a ride (especially after being told clearly by Gamefreak last year that Let's Go was for a more casual audience and the next game would be for more dedicated long time fans)
I agree with you dude lol I was just wondering why the Nintendo fanbase is usually so vocal. Other game fanbases usually just throw a fit at the official forums/reddit and most backlash dies there. Nintendo fans are usually the ones ringing Nintendo up, spamming them with emails, tweets, letters, comments, smoke signals, morse code transmission, etc.
Lol I guess I misunderstood your tone. But honestly, is it really that Nintendo centric? From the last two years or so only, I can remember Fallout 76, Diablo Immortal and Star Wars Battlefront 2 that had pretty long running and elaborate backlash movements. And the various Fallout 76 controversies and the Battlefront 2 debacle were clearly bigger in size and scale than this Pokemon backlash
Hmm. My impression was that the whole Battlefront 2 debacle mostly took place on reddit (before gaming sites picked up on it anyway). But you're right, FO76 and Diablo Immortal were also pretty big. I'd classify Blizzard fans in the same kind of passion-based crazyness as Nintendo fans though. But I don't think even FO76 got to the point of people actually mailing in actual letters through the actual mail HAHA.
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