"A Message for Pokémon Video Game Fans" - by Junichi Masuda (It's Nothing) [See Staff Post for Discussion Guidelines]

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Neoxon

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Oct 25, 2017
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Someone managed to discover that some of Hop's animations are directly recycled from Hau.


It's one of those things that I would have missed unless someone pointed it out.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,693
Someone managed to discover that some of Hop's animations are directly recycled from Hau.


It's one of those things that I would have missed unless someone pointed it out.
Pokémon fans: "Why don't they just recycle all models from past games?!?"

Also Pokemon fans: "Wtf they're recycling animations???"
 

Fj0823

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Oct 25, 2017
6,571
Costa Rica
Pokémon fans: "Why don't they just recycle all models from past games?!?"

Also Pokemon fans: "Wtf they're recycling animations???"
Unbelievale.

I´ll bite. The sole reason why everyone is angered at them recycling models and animations, is because they lied and said that the sheer amount of high quality animations made it impossible to add all the Pokemon.

Where's the quality? Where's the new animation?

If all the Pokemon were here, no one would be complaining about these, in fact I most fans probably expected it.

But hey, keep arguing in bad faith, you do you.

What's your point?

They're recycling animations AND cutting a shitload of content anyway. That's the exact problem people have with this game.
Exactly this.

But I guess "Just you wait for camping animations!" is all we're going to get.

The fabled, Pixar tier, Camping animations. Any minute now.
 

Phellps

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Oct 25, 2017
2,693
What's your point?

They're recycling animations AND cutting a shitload of content anyway. That's the exact problem people have with this game.
Every game recycles assets from previous titles, and yet all these games still have their deadlines to meet and their own development struggles. It's not different with Pokémon, which tends to work on a much tighter schedule.
I expect this to be common knowledge in a place such as Era.
Also, we don't know how much content the game has so until then, this narrative that the game is completely barren because it won't have all Pokemon continues to be bullshit.

Unbelievale.

I´ll bite. The sole reason why everyone is angered at them recycling models and animations, is because they lied and said that the sheer amount of high quality animations made it impossible to add all the Pokemon.

Where's the quality? Where's the new animation?

If all the Pokemon were here, no one would be complaining about these, in fact I most fans probably expected it.

But hey, keep arguing in bad faith, you do you.
Dude, you were the one who had a thread completely backfire on you because you were trying to claim Mew was suddenly a $50 DLC on Sword/Shield with nothing to sustain that claim. I'm not the one who's been arguing in bad faith.

People have been complaining about animations in Pokemon since the game was announced, long before anyone knew not all Pokemon would be in.
But here's the thing; no dev team will ever redo every single animation in their game unless they absolutely have to, and in this case, GF doesn't have to.

It's a flawed logic that recycling Hau's animation is some sort of proof that they're not working on new animations at all.
 
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Kanmurukillua

Member
Jan 28, 2019
304
Unbelievale.

I´ll bite. The sole reason why everyone is angered at them recycling models and animations, is because they lied and said that the sheer amount of high quality animations made it impossible to add all the Pokemon.

Where's the quality? Where's the new animation?

If all the Pokemon were here, no one would be complaining about these, in fact I most fans probably expected it.

But hey, keep arguing in bad faith, you do you.
This is what I don't get. Why do people try to reduce the criticism to "they're just mad about the tree" or "they're just mad about wingull" or "just double kick" or whatever else. It's all of that stuff put together but people act like we're only upset about what we're talking about at the time. I don't even care about Hop's animation being the same, my main issue is the move animations and the fact that no Pokemon have interesting idle animations.
 

Theorymon

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Oct 25, 2017
862
Honestly I wonder if the wild area's shake up + this being Gamefreak's 2nd big HD game (and probably much higher budget than Lets Go) is whats biting them in the ass here.

I understand that the Pokdex is gonna just keep growing, but I cant help but wonder if Nintendo / TPC are just not managing these games with reasonable resources here, I imagine making a game on this level is hell when all you got is gamefreak + creatures + some contractors (what are the numbers for those again?)

I got a lot of issues with Dexit, but I can't help but wonder if its more a window into a bigger issue here.
 

David___

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,670
Pokémon fans: "Why don't they just recycle all models from past games?!?"

Also Pokemon fans: "Wtf they're recycling animations???"
Its almost like people expect more when the excuse given in axing Pokemon from the game is due to the animations being high quality only to find out theyre doing the exact thing they said isnt possible due to the former.
 

Fj0823

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Oct 25, 2017
6,571
Costa Rica
This is what I don't get. Why do people try to reduce the criticism to "they're just mad about the tree" or "they're just mad about wingull" or "just double kick" or whatever else. It's all of that stuff put together but people act like we're only upset about what we're talking about at the time. I don't even care about Hop's animation being the same, my main issue is the move animations and the fact that no Pokemon have interesting idle animations.
"You just have 3 gifs!"

Well GF sure is giving us a lot to work with with each trailer, aren't they? It's almost as if the game is actually cutting corners left and right to rush this game.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
24,407
Houston, TX
What's your point?

They're recycling animations AND cutting a shitload of content anyway. That's the exact problem people have with this game.
This. If the cut content came with improved models & animations (like Game Freak said they'd do), I'd be perfectly fine with the losses. But so far, we've seen little change that justifies the loss of the National Dex, Mega Evolutions, Z-Moves, & whatever else may end up being removed.
 

RochHoch

Member
May 22, 2018
3,455
Every game recycles assets from previous titles, and yet all these games still have their deadlines to meet and their own development struggles. It's not different with Pokémon, which tends to work on a much tighter schedule.
I expect this to be common knowledge in a place such as Era.
Also, we don't know how much content the game has so until then, this narrative that the game is completely barren because it won't have all Pokemon continues to be bullshit.
And its complete bullshit for you to assume that this game will have more content than the previous entries. They can't even be bothered to give us all of the Pokemon or make new animations for Hop, do you honestly expect them to put in more than the bare minimum effort to make postgame content?

Their excuse for Dexit was "quality" and yet they're still cutting as many corners as possible. It's pathetic.
 

David___

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Oct 25, 2017
2,670
And its complete bullshit for you to assume that this game will have more content than the previous entries. They can't even be bothered to give us all of the Pokemon or make new animations for Hop, do you honestly expect them to put in more than the bare minimum effort to make postgame content?

Their excuse for Dexit was "quality" and yet they're still cutting as many corners as possible. It's pathetic.
Even without Dexit, there's absolutely zero reason to expect a meaningful post game from GameFreak just from their latest entries alone. That also doesn't even account for how GF generally looks down on their playerbase by thinking they're too dumb to play this game in the first place.
 

RochHoch

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May 22, 2018
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Even without Dexit, there's absolutely zero reason to expect a meaningful post game from GameFreak just from their latest entries alone. That also doesn't even account for how GF generally looks down on their playerbase by thinking they're too dumb to play this game in the first place.
Exactly. These games are going to be barren in terms of content and they're deleting the National Dex on top of that.

And what does Gamefreak have to show for it? Enlarged Pokemon models with little clouds on top of them? It's total bullshit no matter how you look at it.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,906
Pokémon fans: "Why don't they just recycle all models from past games?!?"

Also Pokemon fans: "Wtf they're recycling animations???"
No one would have even noticed this if Game Freak didn't try to use animations as an excuse for cutting Pokémon. But they did, so now every single bit of animation in Sword and Shield is going to be nitpicked to hell and back. Game Freak made their bed, and now they get to lie in it.
 

Phellps

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Oct 25, 2017
2,693
And its complete bullshit for you to assume that this game will have more content than the previous entries. They can't even be bothered to give us all of the Pokemon or make new animations for Hop, do you honestly expect them to put in more than the bare minimum effort to make postgame content?

Their excuse for Dexit was "quality" and yet they're still cutting as many corners as possible. It's pathetic.
I'm not assuming anything. I can only speak for what I have actually seen, and what I haven't seen does not indicate whether something is there or not.
You're the one saying they have made no new animations for Hop, when all you have seen is a single recycled animation.

No one would have even noticed this if Game Freak didn't try to use animations as an excuse for cutting Pokémon. But they did, so now every single bit of animation in Sword and Shield is going to be nitpicked to hell and back. Game Freak made their bed, and now they get to lie in it.
Sure, but are people actually taking new animations into account or are they just reposting what supports their negative narrative?
Because we have seen new animations for characters, obviously, and even for Pokemon.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,065
Honestly I wonder if the wild area's shake up + this being Gamefreak's 2nd big HD game (and probably much higher budget than Lets Go) is whats biting them in the ass here.

I understand that the Pokdex is gonna just keep growing, but I cant help but wonder if Nintendo / TPC are just not managing these games with reasonable resources here, I imagine making a game on this level is hell when all you got is gamefreak + creatures + some contractors (what are the numbers for those again?)

I got a lot of issues with Dexit, but I can't help but wonder if its more a window into a bigger issue here.
With the constant cycling of features and cutting of post-game content over the years, yeah, I think there is a bigger issue.
 

David___

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,670
Exactly. These games are going to be barren in terms of content and they're deleting the National Dex on top of that.

And what does Gamefreak have to show for it? Enlarged Pokemon models with little clouds on top of them? It's total bullshit no matter how you look at it.
Wait for Camping animations

 

Fj0823

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,571
Costa Rica
Every game recycles assets from previous titles, and yet all these games still have their deadlines to meet and their own development struggles. It's not different with Pokémon, which tends to work on a much tighter schedule.
I expect this to be common knowledge in a place such as Era.
Also, we don't know how much content the game has so until then, this narrative that the game is completely barren because it won't have all Pokemon continues to be bullshit.


Dude, you were the one who had a thread completely backfire on you because you were trying to claim Mew was suddenly a $50 DLC on Sword/Shield with nothing to sustain that claim. I'm not the one who's been arguing in bad faith.

People have been complaining about animations in Pokemon since the game was announced, long before anyone knew not all Pokemon would be in.
But here's the thing; no dev team will ever redo every single animation in their game unless they absolutely have to, and in this case, GF doesn't have to.

It's a flawed logic that recycling Hau's animation is some sort of proof that they're not working on new animations at all.
I'm pretty sure the staff post said no ad hominem.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

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Oct 25, 2017
12,822
No one would have even noticed this if Game Freak didn't try to use animations as an excuse for cutting Pokémon. But they did, so now every single bit of animation in Sword and Shield is going to be nitpicked to hell and back. Game Freak made their bed, and now they get to lie in it.
Resetera, Youtube Comments, Reddit etc are a vacant bed they likely do not care about and I would not blame them for having a laugh.
The nasty shit like harassment on the other hand im assuming does effect them, and makes their fans look like entitled manbabies.
 

RochHoch

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May 22, 2018
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I'm not assuming anything. I can only speak for what I have actually seen, and what I haven't seen does not indicate whether something is there or not.
We've already seen X&Y and both Sun and Moon and their remake wind up with bare minimum in extra content. That alone strongly indicates that Sword and Shield are getting jack shit in terms of post game, and believing otherwise is downright illogical at this point.
 

Fj0823

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Oct 25, 2017
6,571
Costa Rica
I am pretty sure you directly said I was arguing in bad faith.
And I backed up why. Your argument was a false equivalence and I pointed out exactly why.

Now your argument is "You had a threadbackfire on you!" to try and diminish my argument. That's textbook ad hominem

Ad hominem: a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself
 

Kanmurukillua

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Jan 28, 2019
304
The nasty shit like harassment on the other hand im assuming does effect them, and makes their fans look like entitled manbabies.
My girlfriend was called a fat landwhale, told she needed to go on a diet, and other stuff on Twitter for saying she didn't like Alcremie. But, y'know, only people who want the national dex back are "harassing." The difference is I don't make conversations about this constantly to make the other side look bad.
 

Phellps

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Oct 25, 2017
2,693
We've already seen X&Y and both Sun and Moon and their remake wind up with bare minimum in extra content. That alone strongly indicates that Sword and Shield are getting jack shit in terms of post game, and believing otherwise is downright illogical at this point.
Why exactly are you making that argument on the concept that only post-game content counts?
It's the same issue with all the claims that the games are lacking content because it has fewer Pokemon than previous games. As if only Pokemon were considered content.
That ain't it. We don't know the potential of the overall content of this game until they actually show it. I've said this before, it's fine to be skeptical. It's dishonest to claim it as fact.

And I backed up why. Your argument was a false equivalence and I pointed out exactly why.

Now your argument is "You had a threadbackfire on you!" to try and diminish my argument. That's textbook ad hominem
Nah, I did not try to diminish your argument, I was merely defending myself from your initial claim that I was arguing in bad faith after saying nothing that actually proved it was false equivalency. You're either fine with content recycling or you're not. The claim that people would be fine with it is bollocks, because people have been complaining about recycling animations for quite a few years, even when the games had aaaall the Pokemon. You only need to have been here for those threads to know it's not as you claimed.
But you seemed to have stopped reading my post halfway through, since you haven't responded to my arguments, so I don't know if this is worth anything.
 
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lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,822
User Warned - Dismissive behavior towards harassment
My girlfriend was called a fat landwhale, told she needed to go on a diet, and other stuff on Twitter for saying she didn't like Alcremie. But, y'know, only people who want the national dex back are "harassing." The difference is I don't make conversations about this constantly to make the other side look bad.
"both sides"
 

RochHoch

Member
May 22, 2018
3,455
Why exactly are you making that argument on the concept that only post-game content counts?
It's the same issue with all the claims that the games are lacking content because it has fewer Pokemon than previous games. As if only Pokemon were considered content.
That ain't it. We don't know the potential of the overall content of this game until they actually show it. I've said this before, it's fine to be skeptical. It's dishonest to claim it as fact.
So what kind of "overall content" are you even describing here? It almost certainly won't have much of a post-game and it wont even have all of the Pokemon, what kind of content could possible make up for that?

Your entire argument hinges on "well I dunno, maybe they won't fuck up this time" which is nothing more than wishful thinking and has zero evidence whatsoever to support it.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,877
I don't get why people can't simply wait to play this (apparently perfect) game and just not try to stir shit in here unprovoked. Aren't there other places to praise this masterpiece?
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,065
I would have a lot more confidence in Gamefreak's explanation for cutting Pokemon if they had a history of surprising me with their games' content and presentation.

They don't.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,906
Sure, but are people actually taking new animations into account or are they just reposting what supports their negative narrative?
Because we have seen new animations for characters, obviously, and even for Pokemon.
So far we've seen evidence for one, maybe two, new animations per Pokémon. Everything else for the old Pokémon has been reused from past games. If they want to use animations as an excuse, then they should start actually showing some new and/or better animations for the old Pokémon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,184
Brooklyn, NY
Your entire argument hinges on "well I dunno, maybe they won't fuck up this time" which is nothing more than wishful thinking and has zero evidence whatsoever to support it.
This is where I was at for years with this series with backwards decisions and removed content/features that never made a return. If some people are fine with gutted content and now Pokemon, that's on them. Keep throwing your money at GF. But all these "just praise this game and be hyped for it" comments while expecting disappointed people not to criticize these decisions is annoying as fuck.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,151
I would have a lot more confidence in Gamefreak's explanation for cutting Pokemon if they had a history of surprising me with their games' content and presentation.

They don't.
That's where I stand too. The fact that they're lowering the bar even further, and the amount of scrutiny leading to people finding recycled content, should be telling. Instead, People really are stretching to defend Pokemon's rather stupid moves.

No one would have had an issue with recycled animations/models if it meant that the game as a whole had tons of quality. Instead, Game Freak is trying to have their cake and eat it too by intentionally lowering the standards (and doing so ever since Gen VI), in addition to lessening the amount of work.
 

Kanmurukillua

Member
Jan 28, 2019
304
Downplaying harrasment when it suits his argument. I´m sorry about your GF BTW, even though I like Alcremie
I mean, it's cool, she thought it was hilarious that someone would say that over a video game, plus she doesn't have any pictures of herself on Twitter, so she wasn't insulted at all. I just don't like people acting like every Game Freak defender is some sort of saint when it comes to online discussion.
 

Fj0823

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,571
Costa Rica
I mean, it's cool, she thought it was hilarious that someone would say that over a video game, plus she doesn't have any pictures of herself on Twitter, so she wasn't insulted at all. I just don't like people acting like every Game Freak defender is some sort of saint when it comes to online discussion.
I do feel like spamming a hashtag on Masuda's personal twitter is too much. But for the Pokémon social media accounts? Go nuts. That's how you voice displeasure. And that and only that gave us the nothing burger response in the OP.
 

Kanmurukillua

Member
Jan 28, 2019
304
I do feel like spamming a hashtag on Masuda's personal twitter is too much. But for the Pokémon social media accounts? Go nuts. That's how you voice displeasure. And that and only that gave us the nothing burger response in the OP.
I totally agree. I wish people would stick to doing it on the Pokemon social media accounts. Not only do I definitely think it's pretty disrespectful to do that on unrelated posts on someone's personal Twitters, but it gives people ammo to be like "look, everyone who feels this way is like this."
your response to harassment is "but someone else did it too!"
Tweeting a hashtag and talking bad about a company is not harassment. I am also not saying everyone who doesn't care about the dex is harassing anyone, but certain people are using the few people who have gone too far to put everyone under the same umbrella.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,693
So what kind of "overall content" are you even describing here? It almost certainly won't have much of a post-game and it wont even have all of the Pokemon, what kind of content could possible make up for that?

Your entire argument hinges on "well I dunno, maybe they won't fuck up this time" which is nothing more than wishful thinking and has zero evidence whatsoever to support it.
My entire argument hinges on: I can't speak about shit I haven't seen. Which is something that isn't too hard to grasp.
I'm not saying the game will or will not have X amount of content. I'm saying it's dishonest to claim either way.
Because here's the problem with what you're saying: all you know is your views on how much content the past two gens had. While that is enough to make you feel skeptical about the amount of content the new games will have, it's not nearly enough to enable you to claim they will lack content.

Because you don't actually know it. You also have zero evidence to support it. So, for starters, it would be great to not have opinions be passed on as facts.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,010
I am pretty sure you directly said I was arguing in bad faith, which is also ad hominem.
No it isn't. You should learn what a term means before employing it.

For clarity's sake:
If X insults Y and then throughly refutes their argument independent of the insult, not argumentum ad hominem

If X throughly refutes Y's argument and then insults them, also not argumentum ad hominem

If X insults Y in a way that is relevant to judging the quality of Y's argument, also not argumentum ad hominem. But X should have to prove the insult applies to Y

If X says Y is wrong because Y is a big fat stupid head, that's argumentum ad hominem

I imagine mods don't want a or b here either, but this is a case of C at worst.
 

JDSpades

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,364
Lol come on. It’s perfectly fair to critique what they’ve shown and discussed about the game. If there’s some magical, dramatic, game altering stuff that’ll make up for what we’re seeing and what’s been lost, Game Freak is more than welcome to show it.

But telling people to hold their criticism until the game releases is hilarious. On an enthusiast gaming forum of all places.
 

RochHoch

Member
May 22, 2018
3,455
My entire argument hinges on: I can't speak about shit I haven't seen. Which is something that isn't too hard to grasp.
I'm not saying the game will or will not have X amount of content. I'm saying it's dishonest to claim either way.
Because here's the problem with what you're saying: all you know is your views on how much content the past two gens had. While that is enough to make you feel skeptical about the amount of content the new games will have, it's not nearly enough to enable you to claim they will lack content.

Because you don't actually know it. You also have zero evidence to support it. So, for starters, it would be great to not have opinions be passed on as facts.
"Oh, there's a comically low chance that they won't fuck up, so I guess they deserve the benefit of the doubt"

That's what your argument boils down to. Do I really need to explain how ridiculous that is?
 

Sjay1994

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,124
I feel like I am in the minority that likes that national dex has been cut, because I look at it everytime and go "man, I will literally never catch them all"

This makes this game feel more manageable.

As for the animations, its not a good look.
 

Apa504

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,153
Lol come on. It’s perfectly fair to critique what they’ve shown and discussed about the game. If there’s some magical, dramatic game altering stuff that’ll make up for what we’re seeing, Game Freak is more than welcome to show it.

But telling people to hold their criticism until the game releases is hilarious. On an enthusiast gaming forum of all places.
What ?
Critique all you want, as long as it isnt misinformation or insults, I dont care.
 

Hucast

Member
Mar 25, 2019
1,902
I feel like I am in the minority that likes that national dex has been cut, because I look at it everytime and go "man, I will literally never catch them all"

This makes this game feel more manageable.

As for the animations, its not a good look.
I honestly wish they'd stop making new pokemon altogether. Havent even got to know the current ones that well.
 
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