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Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I think the thing that I feel worst about this is none of it matters.

There clearly not listening to people complaints and the series is to big to fail so voting with your wallet is an impossibility.

It's either take whatever they give you no matter how mediocre or just give up. Doesn't feel great.
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,229
Portugal
It would be better for Creatures to get more staff.
Sure, something. At some point it's clear there aren't enough hands on deck.

Despite its cute looks this is a big project and one that's transitioning to HD which has caused every single studio headaches. I expect the next one to be better on every single possible technical level (again has every other studio has shown to be the case) but this one absolutely was the one to have more hands on deck from day 1.
 

ferroseed168

Member
Aug 8, 2018
685
I think the thing that I feel worst about this is none of it matters.

There clearly not listening to people complaints and the series is to big to fail so voting with your wallet is an impossibility.

It's either take whatever they give you no matter how mediocre or just give up. Doesn't feel great.
I think this must have been a big reason for why they decided that cutting Pokemon was an acceptable decision. The game's are going to sell anyway and they can get rid of the really dedicated players who want and expect more and deeper stuff from the series.
 

ferroseed168

Member
Aug 8, 2018
685
Sure, something. At some point it's clear there aren't enough hands on deck.

Despite its cute looks this is a big project and one that's transitioning to HD which has caused every single studio headaches. I expect the next one to be better on every single possible technical level (again has every other studio has shown to be the case) but this one absolutely was the one to have more hands on deck from day 1.
Gamefreak admitted themselves that they're prioritizing the new game "Town" over Pokemon

"At Game Freak, there is an initiative called Gear Project which encourages developers to pitch original games during slow periods. It's through Gear Project that games like HarmoKnight, Pocket Card Jockey, and Onoue's Giga Wrecker were developed. "There are two different production teams here, simply named Production Team 1 and Production Team 2," Onoue says. "Team 1 is fully dedicated to Gear Project, while Team 2 is for the Pokemon operation.

"What that means is that Game Freak as a company is prioritizing Gear Project, which is production team number one, more than Pokemon in general. We are always trying to create something that is equally exciting, or more exciting than Pokemon."

"However, this should be taken more as statement of growth more than anything. Onoue says that Teams 1 and 2 work in tandem, and that there is a lot of movement between the two with the goal of giving developers more experience to become better creatively."
 

Apa504

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,291
Sure, something. At some point it's clear there aren't enough hands on deck.

Despite its cute looks this is a big project and one that's transitioning to HD which has caused every single studio headaches. I expect the next one to be better on every single possible technical level (again has every other studio has shown to be the case) but this one absolutely was the one to have more hands on deck from day 1.

The problem is that there is 3 different companies which are independent from each other and one who is owned by those three, but also has a say in what things to do or not to do.
Maybe Nintendo wants something, but GF and Creatures dont.
Maybe GF wants something, but Nintendo and Creatures dont.
Same for Creatures.
And we know how hard is to work with The Pokemon company when even Nintendo has problems with them.
 

Apa504

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,291
Gamefreak admitted themselves that they're prioritizing the new game "Town" over Pokemon

"At Game Freak, there is an initiative called Gear Project which encourages developers to pitch original games during slow periods. It's through Gear Project that games like HarmoKnight, Pocket Card Jockey, and Onoue's Giga Wrecker were developed. "There are two different production teams here, simply named Production Team 1 and Production Team 2," Onoue says. "Team 1 is fully dedicated to Gear Project, while Team 2 is for the Pokemon operation.

"What that means is that Game Freak as a company is prioritizing Gear Project, which is production team number one, more than Pokemon in general. We are always trying to create something that is equally exciting, or more exciting than Pokemon."

"However, this should be taken more as statement of growth more than anything. Onoue says that Teams 1 and 2 work in tandem, and that there is a lot of movement between the two with the goal of giving developers more experience to become better creatively."

This is misinformation.
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,229
Portugal
The problem is that there is 3 different companies which are independent from each other and one who is owned by those three, but also has a say in what things to do or not to do.
Maybe Nintendo wants something, but GF and Creatures dont.
Maybe GF wants something, but Nintendo and Creatures dont.
Same for Creatures.
And we know how hard is to work with The Pokemon company when even Nintendo has problems with them.
Yeah the stories how messy things can get with the TPC and Nintendo are well known. It's an unfortunate legal/burocratic situation.

To be clear I'm still gonna buy it and enjoy what it has to offer, but a lot of things bother me with this one. I can't shake the feeling that something didn't go quite right with it, as the ideas are there but the execution feels... lacking.

I expect the follow up (be it a new gen or a 3rd game) to improve almost everything though. This was the case with almost every single IP on the PS3/X360/WiiU.
 

Apa504

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,291
A direct quote from someone who works at the company is misinformation?

I beileve that some parts of the translation are wrong or taken out of context, Serebii can explain it better, but basically Project gear is not new, it has existed since 2010 and they arent prioritizing Town over Pokemon, they just want some developers to work on other projects so they can come with fresh ideas and more technical knowledge for Pokemon
 

ferroseed168

Member
Aug 8, 2018
685
I beileve that some parts of the translation are wrong or taken out of context, Serebii can explain it better, but basically Project gear is not new, it has existed since 2010 and they arent prioritizing Town over Pokemon, they just want some developers to work on other projects so they can come with fresh ideas and more technical knowledge for Pokemon
so is there a Japanese version of the interview that we can compare the supposed mistranslation to?
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,124
Gamefreak admitted themselves that they're prioritizing the new game "Town" over Pokemon

"At Game Freak, there is an initiative called Gear Project which encourages developers to pitch original games during slow periods. It's through Gear Project that games like HarmoKnight, Pocket Card Jockey, and Onoue's Giga Wrecker were developed. "There are two different production teams here, simply named Production Team 1 and Production Team 2," Onoue says. "Team 1 is fully dedicated to Gear Project, while Team 2 is for the Pokemon operation.

"What that means is that Game Freak as a company is prioritizing Gear Project, which is production team number one, more than Pokemon in general. We are always trying to create something that is equally exciting, or more exciting than Pokemon."

"However, this should be taken more as statement of growth more than anything. Onoue says that Teams 1 and 2 work in tandem, and that there is a lot of movement between the two with the goal of giving developers more experience to become better creatively."
That article is poorly framed and contradicts itself multiple times. For example it says Team 2 is just Pokémon which focuses on one system and then says Team 2 focuses on many systems. It also has terrible grammar and wording. I'm questioning it and am awaiting a response regarding it

But yeah, Gear Project has existed since before 2010. This isn't anything new. Plus let's not forget that they're small eshop/download titles, not full retail ones so of course they're not going to be the focus.
 
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ferroseed168

Member
Aug 8, 2018
685
That article is poorly framed and contradicts itself multiple times. For example it says Team 2 is just Pokémon which focuses on one system and then says Team 2 focuses on many systems. It also has terrible grammar and wording. I'm questioning it and am awaiting a response regarding it

But yeah, Gear Project has existed since before 2010. This isn't anything new. Plus let's not forget that they're small eshop/download titles, not full retail ones so of course they're not going to be the focus.
But the quote seems to be a translation of something a Gamefreak employee has said. Not sure what the construction of the article or the narrative they're trying to push has anything to do with that. At best it could be a mistranslation but I don't know how we can say that without a Japanese equivalent to compare with

Also I agree that other Gear Project games have exited before, but Town is clearly a project that's on a bigger scale and has a bigger budget than those previous titles
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,124
But the quote seems to be a translation of something a Gamefreak employee has said. Not sure what the construction of the article or the narrative they're trying to push has anything to do with that. At best it could be a mistranslation but I don't know how we can say that without a Japanese equivalent to compare with

Also I agree that other Gear Project games have exited before, but Town is clearly a project that's on a bigger scale and has a bigger budget than those previous titles
It could easily be that it's his priority, not necessarily the company. Japanese is tricky.

However, I do know for a fact that Game Freak is focusing on Pokémon. I'm just awaiting further confirmation.

Also Town isn't that bigger scale, only that it's 3D but it's set in one small town and is an eshop only game.
 

ScoobsJoestar

Member
May 30, 2019
4,071
I've sort of made my peace with the fact that Pokemon will really go the way I thought it would. I thought that as generations went on we'd get games that were more like Colosseum but with higher specs/budget. Now I've tapped out and understand that we'll only ever get games like the ones I grew up playing, but with slightly different set dressing every time. Which is like yeah sure, gonna slowly lose my interest on the series but not going to get mad over it.

Also, to this day I still can't see Sun/Moon as being that different from previous games. Like yeah there were trials instead of gyms but...to be honest, gameplay wise trials weren't really that different from gyms. I'm glad if it was enough change for some people but for me it was like "...This is just a gym."

I was hoping that the Switch games would be as different from the main series as Colosseum was. Man, Colosseum was fucking great. No gyms, stealing Pokemon only, super different setting from the usual, Mirror B's theme song, all double battles...it felt so different from the usual series I'm still not sure how we even got it lol felt like one of those rad spin-offs we only get once in forever when the main devs aren't paying attention to what is being done to the spin off so some stuff sneaks past their directions.

Ah well. I'll still probably play Sword and Shield at some point because friends are getting it and that's always fun, but ehhhh. Feels like I like the series less and less as the games go by, which sucks because I loved it more than any other series at one point, now it's like not even top 10 for me :/ but that's life, I suppose. No sense getting upset about it, might as well just live my life and if the series ever swings itself around to my tastes out of coincidence I'll get back to loving it again.
 

ferroseed168

Member
Aug 8, 2018
685
It could easily be that it's his priority, not necessarily the company. Japanese is tricky.

However, I do know for a fact that Game Freak is focusing on Pokémon. I'm just awaiting further confirmation.

Also Town isn't that bigger scale, only that it's 3D but it's set in one small town and is an eshop only game.
Best I can tell, this seems to be the interview all the other sites are quoting from, and the quote seems to be pretty clear cut. I suppose it's possible that they have made an egregious translation error, but I personally think that's unlikely (still possible, I guess)

Also yeah, Town is an eshop game, but being 3D and HD automatically makes it the biggest scale Gears Project game to date. And I think that shows an increasing commitment to the new projects part of the company. But I suppose we don't know a lot about Town, so it's all speculation for now
 
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Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,124
Best I can tell, this seems to be the interview all the other sites are quoting from, and the quote seems to be pretty clear cut. I suppose it's possible that they have made an egregious translation error, but I personally think that's unlikely (still possible, I guess)

Also yeah, Town is an eshop games, but being 3D and HD automatically makes it the biggest scale Gears Project game to date. And I think that shows an increasing commitment to the new projects part of the company. But I suppose we don't know a lot about Town, so it's all speculation for now
Yeah and that's the one which is filled with contradictory statements, enough of which are making me question a lot of their translation
 

Zelretch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
621
The last 3 generations have seen a rapid decline in my engagement too. XY was the most I've been into a Generation since Gen 2

Gen 6: 100s of hours battling, training, breeding
Gen 7: Got to the entrance to the Battle Tree and put it down forever
Gen 8: Will probably buy it used

i mean, without gen 8 which still hasn't come out so it is hard to see how engagement it will give you, the thing ends up like:

"Gen 6: 100s of hours battling, training, breeding
Gen 7: Got to the entrance to the Battle Tree and put it down forever!

which looks less like a decending pattern and more like you really got into Gen 6 but Gen 7 didn't did it for you (it was the same for me tbh)
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,084
Main issue with Gen 7 was that the online system was inferior than Gen 6, where it was much easier to get hooked to it thanks to the bottom screen functionality. Gen 7 asking you to go to a separate "hall" made it more annoying. Luckily Gen 8 seems to fix this (or at least it seemed that way in the Wild Area).

Gen 7 did have QR / rental teams although they were lamer and need to be expanded more.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,124
Main issue with Gen 7 was that the online system was inferior than Gen 6, where it was much easier to get hooked to it thanks to the bottom screen functionality. Gen 7 asking you to go to a separate "hall" made it more annoying. Luckily Gen 8 seems to fix this (or at least it seemed that way in the Wild Area).

Gen 7 did have QR / rental teams although they were lamer and need to be expanded more.
Yeah the Y-Comm is a return to form
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,061
Again, they outsource.

Despite Game Freak having less than 143 staff, did you know over 500 people worked on Sun & Moon? Remove localisation and it's still over 400. Remove testing and it's still over 350. Plus there are companies listed in credits as just companies with who knows how many from that company working on it.

Game Freak's staff member also doesn't include freelancers, interns and others, just those contracted into the company

Creatures Inc. do a lot of the 3D modelling and animation. Nintendo help with other elements including online elements and so forth.

People need to stop treating misinformation as fact and stop spreading it.
Like I said before, other studios do the same stuff but still have large staff sizes. Game Freak needs to grow.
400 people worked on Sun and Moon? Okay, but how long did they work on it? We know Game Freak works on multiple games at once and because of their size a lot of them likely work on more than one game at a time. Sword and Shield's development was likely slower than it should have been because of USUM, Let's Go and their non Pokemon titles.
There's also certain things a studio would want to do in house, but since their staff size is so small they probably outsource some of that work which then cuts down on other things outsource workers can do.
Sun and Moon was also made in 2 years, so of course they had to outsource a shit ton to even get the game done.
Game Freak is not big enough for the number of HD titles they want to do at once, outsourcing only gets you so far.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,296
Like I said before, other studios do the same stuff but still have large staff sizes. Game Freak needs to grow.
400 people worked on Sun and Moon? Okay, but how long did they work on it? We know Game Freak works on multiple games at once and because of their size a lot of them likely work on more than one game at a time. Sword and Shield's development was likely slower than it should have been because of USUM, Let's Go and their non Pokemon titles.
There's also certain things a studio would want to do in house, but since their staff size is so small they probably outsource some of that work which then cuts down on other things outsource workers can do.
Sun and Moon was also made in 2 years, so of course they had to outsource a shit ton to even get the game done.
Game Freak is not big enough for the number of HD titles they want to do at once, outsourcing only gets you so far.
Sun and Moon wasn't made in 2 years.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,808
"Oh, there's a comically low chance that they won't fuck up, so I guess they deserve the benefit of the doubt"

That's what your argument boils down to. Do I really need to explain how ridiculous that is?
It's fairly easy to dismiss someone's argument with an exaggerated "Your argument boils down to", yes. Because this way, you can just look past all that was said and simply insist on saying I'm wrong without actually taking the time to explain why.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,124
I imagine conceptualisation began way before that.

It all depends how you define the start of development
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,061
He says he started working as director after ORAS. As we know there were already references to SM in XY anyways so they started working on it before XY even came out.
Having some ideas doesn't mean they started working on it before XY, that's just planning some things in advance.
It'd be pretty ridiculous for a game to be in development for a few years with no director.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,124

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,061
There's some things the game director works on but there's others that the overall directors of the franchise (Masuda etc.) control beforehand. I have little doubt the game itself, at the very least the Pokémon, were in the works before ORAS
Like I said, I doubt they had anything done beyond some Pokemon and random ideas. There is no way they started hard development long before having an actual director, and if they did then we are just back to the issue of them taking on too many games at once for their size.
 

HavakPkmn

Member
Feb 13, 2019
97
Manchester
The thing is with Pokémon they've probably had ideas for years that they didn't use, but maybe do in the future. This could be anything from new forms of battling, new mechanics, new Pokémon including evolutions or new forms etc. Absolutely anything that could have been in the pipeline since Gen 2 but has never actually been used yet as they're not sure how to implement it for whatever reason, or have just never gone back to it to fine tune it. We'll pretty much never find out the majority of this, but unused ideas from the past could always make it into a future game and a lot of the 'development' for it would have already been quite far along.

I'm more than at peace with Game Freak and everyone involved in the Pokémon games because as a fan for 20 years or so, it hasn't changed much and I quite like that personally. I would hate for something drastic to come in that changes core mechanics in an instant, so the incremental approach suits me as a customer more. You have to understand that most of us posting on forums and social media, the 'hardcore' fans, the competitive players and so forth are in the strict minority when it comes to the target audience for these games. We probably make up less than 20% in the grand scheme of things despite what we want to believe. Game Freak is kind of forced to prioritise appealing to the younger market and will have strict deadlines that are timed to match other Pokémon media such as the TCG, anime, and probably more now. Along with this, it's obvious that investors and everyone involved know that these games are guaranteed to sell well in excess of 10million copies, probably in excess of 20million when you add the third version or sequels, so the yearly release when possible is just such a massive source of income that it has to happen.

I can understand a lot of people's complaints and I do think a lot of things should have evolved and been included in these games specifically, or even earlier for some things like Pokémon cries and move animations (a lot are similar to what they were in Gen 3 for example), but it hasn't happened and we can only hope that they improve more than what we've seen to this point, or at least in future titles. A big thing I always look to though is that most games that come out every year don't have the same scope as Pokémon and will likely have much larger teams working on them as well. If we really wanted this fully fleshed out Pokémon title, with MMO features, amazing graphics and the like, it would probably be a game that requires 4-5 years of development and probably means no core RPG coming out in that entire time. Some fans might be accepting of no real Pokémon game for four years if it meant we get an absolute baller of a game worth the wait, but I'd wager most fans wouldn't want to wait this long and unfortunately, I don't think Game Freak would ever be given this amount of time. The games are too big of a cash cow and it will continue to be milked on a 12-18 month basis with quite minor upgrades each time. I can definitely understand people's frustration with this as some will definitely feel they're being taken advantage of, but then perhaps this just isn't the franchise for them anymore?
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,124
Like I said, I doubt they had anything done beyond some Pokemon and random ideas. There is no way they started hard development long before having an actual director, and if they did then we are just back to the issue of them taking on too many games at once for their size.
Depends on what you define development then
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,742
Canada
I like how Ohmori is being truthful about redoing everything for SwSh but not being truthful about when SuMo started development. 🙄
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,124
I like how Ohmori is being truthful about redoing everything for SwSh but not being truthful about when SuMo started development. 🙄
Probably because it isn't what he said

Right after Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, we wrapped up development and I immediately began working as the director on Pokémon Sun and Moon with no break

He didn't say development started then
 

Moltres006

Banned
Jan 5, 2019
1,818
The thing is with Pokémon they've probably had ideas for years that they didn't use, but maybe do in the future. This could be anything from new forms of battling, new mechanics, new Pokémon including evolutions or new forms etc. Absolutely anything that could have been in the pipeline since Gen 2 but has never actually been used yet as they're not sure how to implement it for whatever reason, or have just never gone back to it to fine tune it. We'll pretty much never find out the majority of this, but unused ideas from the past could always make it into a future game and a lot of the 'development' for it would have already been quite far along.

I'm more than at peace with Game Freak and everyone involved in the Pokémon games because as a fan for 20 years or so, it hasn't changed much and I quite like that personally. I would hate for something drastic to come in that changes core mechanics in an instant, so the incremental approach suits me as a customer more. You have to understand that most of us posting on forums and social media, the 'hardcore' fans, the competitive players and so forth are in the strict minority when it comes to the target audience for these games. We probably make up less than 20% in the grand scheme of things despite what we want to believe. Game Freak is kind of forced to prioritise appealing to the younger market and will have strict deadlines that are timed to match other Pokémon media such as the TCG, anime, and probably more now. Along with this, it's obvious that investors and everyone involved know that these games are guaranteed to sell well in excess of 10million copies, probably in excess of 20million when you add the third version or sequels, so the yearly release when possible is just such a massive source of income that it has to happen.

I can understand a lot of people's complaints and I do think a lot of things should have evolved and been included in these games specifically, or even earlier for some things like Pokémon cries and move animations (a lot are similar to what they were in Gen 3 for example), but it hasn't happened and we can only hope that they improve more than what we've seen to this point, or at least in future titles. A big thing I always look to though is that most games that come out every year don't have the same scope as Pokémon and will likely have much larger teams working on them as well. If we really wanted this fully fleshed out Pokémon title, with MMO features, amazing graphics and the like, it would probably be a game that requires 4-5 years of development and probably means no core RPG coming out in that entire time. Some fans might be accepting of no real Pokémon game for four years if it meant we get an absolute baller of a game worth the wait, but I'd wager most fans wouldn't want to wait this long and unfortunately, I don't think Game Freak would ever be given this amount of time. The games are too big of a cash cow and it will continue to be milked on a 12-18 month basis with quite minor upgrades each time. I can definitely understand people's frustration with this as some will definitely feel they're being taken advantage of, but then perhaps this just isn't the franchise for them anymore?
The thing is that new battle mechanics are completely unnecessary. All we needed from sword and shield was:
-national dex
-a couple of new megas

That right there could've been a 20 million seller and kept the fanbase happy.
 

AzureFlame

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,253
Kuwait
It is funny looking through that old thread, seeing the same familiar posters debating over GF even back then. I will say though that back then discussions about pokemon seemed very much anti criticism. I remember being absolutely blown away when people were posting that they would be completely fine if gen 8 looked like the hd mods of sun and moon. Legitimate debates on whether the game would look better than an upressed 3ds game, I'd never seen a community have such low expectations lol.

At the time I think I even said I'd be massively disappointed if it didn't look better than Ninokuni on the ps3 and tbh I don't think SwSh do, but at this point there are so many other issues I have with the games that in the end that criteria for disappointment was really low balling it.

It'll get even lower, it's unfortunate, many bought Game Freak's excuses.
 

HavakPkmn

Member
Feb 13, 2019
97
Manchester
The thing is that new battle mechanics are completely unnecessary. All we needed from sword and shield was:
-national dex
-a couple of new megas

That right there could've been a 20 million seller and kept the fanbase happy.
They'll probably be a 20million seller anyway.

I think everyone is in agreement that a post-game National Dex (even if it came in 2020 with Pokémon Home) is something that should be included, but I think it's a pointless debate to continue now as it isn't happening in Sw/Sh. My expectation is that most of the Pokémon not in Sw/Sh will be worked on tirelessly over the coming months/years and eventually we get everything. It will be especially easier when they don't have to develop completely new Pokémon at the same time as re-modelling or enhancing old ones. Just the way it is unfortunately.

As for Mega's, I'm not surprised to see them go (I assume) as they didn't give us any new ones last Gen. I'm not quite sure why Game Freak do it, perhaps it's because they like people to have more reasons to go back and play previous titles, or they haven't liked how things have gone since their introduction? But it seems like changes like this are going to be often brought in and then removed from later games. We could see no Megas or Z-Moves ever again for all we know. Dyanamax / Gigantamax could be a permanent replacement, or it could be canned after this Gen in favour of something entirely different. Who knows?

While I am someone who usually likes 'more of the same' for my Pokémon games over anything else, I'm sure people would have been criticising Game Freak if all they did was gives us what we already had and a couple of Megas, don't you think?
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,061
They'll probably be a 20million seller anyway.

I think everyone is in agreement that a post-game National Dex (even if it came in 2020 with Pokémon Home) is something that should be included, but I think it's a pointless debate to continue now as it isn't happening in Sw/Sh. My expectation is that most of the Pokémon not in Sw/Sh will be worked on tirelessly over the coming months/years and eventually we get everything. It will be especially easier when they don't have to develop completely new Pokémon at the same time as re-modelling or enhancing old ones. Just the way it is unfortunately.

As for Mega's, I'm not surprised to see them go (I assume) as they didn't give us any new ones last Gen. I'm not quite sure why Game Freak do it, perhaps it's because they like people to have more reasons to go back and play previous titles, or they haven't liked how things have gone since their introduction? But it seems like changes like this are going to be often brought in and then removed from later games. We could see no Megas or Z-Moves ever again for all we know. Dyanamax / Gigantamax could be a permanent replacement, or it could be canned after this Gen in favour of something entirely different. Who knows?

While I am someone who usually likes 'more of the same' for my Pokémon games over anything else, I'm sure people would have been criticising Game Freak if all they did was gives us what we already had and a couple of Megas, don't you think?
Pokemon hasn't hit 20 million since Gen 2. We're likely looking at something in the 15-17 million range, which is what it's been at for a long time.
 

HavakPkmn

Member
Feb 13, 2019
97
Manchester
Pokemon hasn't hit 20 million since Gen 2. We're likely looking at something in the 15-17 million range, which is what it's been at for a long time.
Yeah, I'm meaning more as a Generation than just Sword and Shield, although I think these games have the potential to be one of the most successful given how hot the Switch is. I'm also assuming a Switch Mini is going to boost them even further with a lot of children receiving it for Christmas.
 

riq

Member
Feb 21, 2019
1,687
And probably the shift from ARM architecture to the Switch one probably had a factor in.

One pet peeve of mine is people who don't have knowledge of the subject matter attacking developers for development.
You could ask Sciresm or Kazowar then, right? Since they definetely would know if something changed between each individual file of, say, Growlithe in USUM and Let's Go. They would also be more well informed than any of us regardimg the architecture change.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,124
You could ask Sciresm or Kazowar then, right? Since they definetely would know if something changed between each individual file of, say, Growlithe in USUM and Let's Go. They would also be more well informed than any of us regardimg the architecture change.
I shall be checking things with them at launch, yes. That's our job :P
 

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,933
As for Mega's, I'm not surprised to see them go (I assume) as they didn't give us any new ones last Gen. I'm not quite sure why Game Freak do it, perhaps it's because they like people to have more reasons to go back and play previous titles, or they haven't liked how things have gone since their introduction? But it seems like changes like this are going to be often brought in and then removed from later games. We could see no Megas or Z-Moves ever again for all we know. Dyanamax / Gigantamax could be a permanent replacement, or it could be canned after this Gen in favour of something entirely different. Who knows?
It's to subvert expectations


GC: I've being looking at the reactions online and everyone seems very keen, except there is concern that new features get added to Pokémon each time and, whether they're well received or not, they seem to disappear for the next iteration for no obvious reason. Is Dynamax something that's going to stick around forever?

SO:
At Game Freak, it really just comes from our desire to surprise the players with new gameplay. Not to do the exact same thing every time but have a new twist on something, that keeps people surprised and enjoying the new style of gameplay.
For some things I disagree but understand. Removing the PSS is one of the worst decisions they've ever made though.

Yeah the Y-Comm is a return to form
Hopefully it actually sticks around this time. It was such a no-brainer permanent improvement :\
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
And probably the shift from ARM architecture to the Switch one probably had a factor in.

One pet peeve of mine is people who don't have knowledge of the subject matter attacking developers for development.
Oh yeah, forgot the change in arquitecture too, every little thing could screw up everything.
And yes, its frustrating how every one knows how game development works and suddenly you are a lazy, incompetent, greedy developer.
The CPU architecture only changed in a highly technical sense. They're going from 32-bit ARM to 64-bit ARM. Even if it was a more significant change, though, they really should be able to lean mostly on their compiler to handle this sort of thing for them unless they've been writing very non-portable code.

This isn't the 80s and 90s anymore. The vast majority of modern code isn't written in assembly, and, as such, ports fairly easily between CPU architectures with only targeted changes needed much of the time.
 

AlexFlame116

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
23,182
Utah
It's just so frustrating why they decide not to patch the games later on with the rest of the Pokemon missing. And why they're ecosystem even caused the loss of Pokemon in the first place. Or why they didn't give us a warning before announcing the new games or Home.
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
So someone told me to check out the Famitsu interview again and Ohmori does say they had to redo the models from scratch. This makes sense due to different format and perhaps it being hard to port directly across

Now this made me think back to the animations thing. Even if they were able to convert the models, they would need to re-rig every single animation for every single Pokémon, test it and so forth. Like I said, assuming a dozen animations for each Pokémon model (1006 as stated before), that's a craptonne of animations to re-rig and test. Such a thing can't be automated.
Uhh, 3D models are very portable. There's standardized formats that can bake in both the mesh, rigs, and animations — if you need a different format, you just export it to the different format from the source app (Maya, etc) — and yes you could even automate this process with a script to quickly convert thousands of assets. The idea you're suggesting that you have to remake a model from scratch or even re-rig the mesh to get it into a different engine is just bizarre. Like, what do you think happens to the rig and animations in Maya (or whatever app they use to author the assets) when they started working on SwSh? Disappear? No.

And probably the shift from ARM architecture to the Switch one probably had a factor in.
No, CPU architecture has nothing to do with models. Again, these are standardized formats -- you write an importer to import 3D assets like you would images, sound files, etc -- you don't reinvent a new 3D asset format every time you make a new engine just like you wouldn't reinvent jpg, png, tga, wav, ogg, mp3, etc.

And for what changes CPU architecture did require (in engine code, mostly), they already had Switch experience with Go P/E — that was supposed to be the transition game.

Maybe they did rebuild the models from scratch, but it would be a creative choice -- it wouldn't be mandated by all these reasons you try to give. And judging by the footage we've seen, I'm still skeptical. Take Gyrados for example -- even the model's topology looks identical. If they rebuilt that model for Switch, why leave in the low poly joints in the whiskers? If they were recreated from scratch, they were recreated to match the old model as close as possible... and I assume Game Freak is smart enough to not waste all that time recreating assets they already have.

boudai


iu


BVi1VRN.png


(can even see that the part where it starts to curl is a bit squished in both the 3DS model and the Switch model, suggesting they're using the same animations that deform the whiskers the same way -- it'd actually be quite a lot more effort, an insane amount of work, really, to literally recreate the same model and animations from scratch and have them match up so closely instead of naturally having different proportions, topology, and animations)

Either way, the reasons you provide for why they'd have to recreate or re-rig models is nonsense. If all you claim was true, they would have had to redo all the models and animations for Pokemon Go as well.

Are you an expert in development? Porting to different engines/devices does require existing stuff to get reworked. This is normal.
One pet peeve of mine is people who don't have knowledge of the subject matter attacking developers for development.
Hmm.
 
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