It is, and the game at launch will be exactly the same now as it would have been if they didn't have issues that caused them to have to cull Pokémon.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
"A Message for Pokémon Video Game Fans" - by Junichi Masuda (It's Nothing) [See Staff Post for Discussion Guidelines]
- Thread starter Brazil
- Start date
- Status
I guess it's true that people spamming the Bethesda or EA/DICE social media accounts all the time. Although maybe they were, I just didn't care about it enough to check
Yeah, except back then Game Freak always had plans put in place to allow us to transfer EVERYTHING up to those games, now they aren't committing to anything like that. This is a dishonest comparison.
My sleep-deprived brain actually convinced me that a mail campaign would be pretty cool. We'd all write letters in simple English/Japanese (if you speak it) telling a story about a bond we had with an old Poké we always carry with us since gen 3/4/whatever, or a crazy out-of-region wondertrade that carried you that one run, or that time you took an overlooked mon and built a moveset/team around it and had success.
Basically positive stories about old Pokémon and our experiences with them and then respectifully asking them to please reconsider this decision for future games. #MailMon is already a thing in my head!
That or we send Masuda a fruit basket for having to deal with us for like 10+ years lol. I disagree with the guy on basically everything and may have even said some poor words about him but the bloke is hard working and deserve some level of fan recognition.
Basically positive stories about old Pokémon and our experiences with them and then respectifully asking them to please reconsider this decision for future games. #MailMon is already a thing in my head!
That or we send Masuda a fruit basket for having to deal with us for like 10+ years lol. I disagree with the guy on basically everything and may have even said some poor words about him but the bloke is hard working and deserve some level of fan recognition.
Yeah Joe's reaction to all this has been very interesting. He was really disappointed on the day of the announcement from what I remember off Twitter, but seems to have made his peace with it. And that's fine, because that's probably where a lot of people are in the fanbase - they're really disappointed but they'll still get the game and try and enjoy it for what it will be. Joe's tone on this is probably also different because of his position in the community, and I totally get that too.
I just wish he wasn't so dismissive of perfectly reasonable problems people have with this game - apart from the pokedex and mega evolution cuts, people have also criticized the graphical quality (which I don't have much problems with, but I get why others do), have called Gamefreak lazy because all the old models were already made and future proofed in Gen 6 (and Joe agreed with this initially btw). I don't agree with all these criticisms (my problem is only really the Pokemon cuts and to a slightly smaller degree, Mega Evolutions, the latter of which could easily be remedied by the potential depth we have seen with Dynamax) but I think they're mostly fair. It's fair game to compare Sw/Sh with other games on the Switch, because they use the same hardware. Many people were also really expecting a generational leap but this ended up being an iteration on Gen 7, and I think this is a reasonable disappointment as well, even though being a long term fan I just couldn't see that ever happening.
I just wish Joe wasn't so dismissive of many accurate and reasonable arguments people have made in criticism of these games. He has a respected voice in the community (maybe the only one left given the Poketuber debacles over the last couple of years) and is probably trying his best to keep both sides of this divided fanbase happy. I know there's been a lot of misinformation and exaggeration out there, but that will always exist in this age of hype cycles and staggered info dumps, where companies only share information with us in small, calculated doses. When they give us incomplete information, there will be speculation. It's pretty understandable. They should have given us the exact number of Pokemon that will be in the Galar Dex when announcing the Culling IMO, would have saved a lot of speculation and given some much needed clarity to the situation. Instead they've given us a "non-response" response and essentially told fans like me to bugger off.
They used positive stories about the bond between players and mons over years to sell you Pokemon Bank to begin with, lol. I remember an actress wad involved at some point too. They know your feels, there's a new product and it's called Home.
User Banned (1 Week): Personal attacks and antagonizing other members; account still in junior phase
Doing free community management work for Nintendo is your choice but you should quit the condescending tone "blabla need to explain AGAIN blabla I state the ACTUAL facts" and most importantly the bad faith beyond "stating facts". You're not the ultimate beholder of truth on this topic and not everything can be rationalized to your "facts" that should justify every unpopular decision they make.
People here don't say they took "took this decision lightly" but rather that they could have done otherwise and that they don't EXPLAIN the reasons of their choice but rather do PR bullshit.
I've always just filled the regional Pokedex in every game, so I can't bring myself to care that much. My cousins - who are what Pokemon fans would call 'casuals' - are completely oblivious to this whole 'issue'. They're just excited for a new Pokemon game coming. I share that excitement.
Yeah, I know. But it would be so cool though! It would be a positive and wholesome "backlash", uniting the community for a common goal with actual tangible material produced by it and hey, letters are taken really seriously, so who knows?! It could have an effect! Probably not, but I like to dream.
I've made my peace with this but that doesn't mean I'm not going to do everything in my power to make sure they know fan views.
I was dismissive about the graphical elements because people are focusing on such insigificant bits that are usually what is dealt with in polish.
I'm just doing my best to quash misinformation. It's unfortunately not my fault that the bulk of it is supporting the "Game Freak are bad" notion and that is what is giving me the appearance of flipflopping etc.
I'm sorry facts are getting in the way of your emotions.
Discussion Guidelines
Official Staff Communication
Let's make a few things clear to keep this discussion on track:
If you want to express disappointment with aspects of Pokemon Sword and Shield, your criticism should be based on substance and not ad hominem. Do not attack the developers in personal terms. Do not excuse, justify, or minimize harassment.
It is okay to be disappointed by the missing Pokemon. It is also okay to not be disappointed. Falling into either camp does not make someone the enemy.
Be respectful to other members, especially when you disagree. Do not escalate or attempt to inflame the discussion. Do not generalize or baselessly accuse members you disagree with.
If you want to express disappointment with aspects of Pokemon Sword and Shield, your criticism should be based on substance and not ad hominem. Do not attack the developers in personal terms. Do not excuse, justify, or minimize harassment.
It is okay to be disappointed by the missing Pokemon. It is also okay to not be disappointed. Falling into either camp does not make someone the enemy.
Be respectful to other members, especially when you disagree. Do not escalate or attempt to inflame the discussion. Do not generalize or baselessly accuse members you disagree with.
Their point is that if you don't know what else is in the game (and we don't), you can't claim that the game features less content than its predecessors just because not all Pokémon will be in it. Because there might be a lot more of content in other areas, making it more content-packed than previous games.
The Pokémon are the content. Nothing exists without them. You're catching Pokémon. You're training Pokémon. You're battling with Pokémon. You're breeding Pokémon. You're using Pokémon in contests. You're using them in battle facilities. You're playing with Pokémon. You're feeding Pokémon.
Less Pokémon is objectively less content. There is no way to spin this. There is no way to debate otherwise. It is just a nonsensical thing to argue against.
Less Pokémon is objectively less content. There is no way to spin this. There is no way to debate otherwise. It is just a nonsensical thing to argue against.
That is correct, and I have no idea how it was interpreted any other way. Obviously there are less total Pokemon available unless they're removing less than the amount of new Pokemon which is unlikely.
The issue with this is that you'd think GameFreak would be pushing this content if it were the case, but their official comments only suggest we're getting less Pokemon now for game balance and graphics.
Have they ever advertised post-game type content before launch? All we know is there will be more story focus, and that there is a wild area hub that's significantly more open than previous games which has some kind of co-op mechanic. The online system seems improved over Sun and Moon too which is pretty significant.
According to Ohmori, even in Pokemon Sun & Moon, bringing in every Pokemon was something barely manageable, and with Pokemon Sword & Shield and the need to redo models, and so they had to make a decision. However, Ohmori says that despite this, the Wild Areas and story will have quite a bit of content to make up for it.
They have, but in like the month or so running into launch, not 6 months prior to launch
Absolutely not.
You literally said that less pokemon is not less content. Pokemon are content. So less pokemon is less content. Then you explained your statement and your explanation implied that you knew pokemon were content while simultaneously assuming other people were being intentionally obtuse.
Nobody was being intentionally obtuse. You said Pokemon aren't content, which is patently ridiculous, and got called on it.
The way they'd said it completely disregarded, downplayed, even denied that Pokemon themselves are content. See above.
please quote me where I said Pokemon arent content, because im pretty sure you misread and misinterpreted that despite having to reiterate the meaning.
That's the main draw, but you more than anyone else should now there's a huge heterogeneity within the fandom and what they like to do within the games. Yes, the game will be the same at launch, but "the launch" is 10% of the playtime and the fun for many fans.
I see Operation Drizzle is already a failure before it even begins. People are too pissed at the general situation to do anything that's not arguing online. Oh well. I still like the fruit basket idea though. I remember reddit did it for Triple H and it was super cool
Also yeah I changed the name because MailMon was stupid
Also yeah I changed the name because MailMon was stupid
Drizzle only lasts 5 turns. Should have called it operation Primordial Sea.
Well, we aren't going to mail them forever, right?!
Although Operation Primordial Sea is a cool-ass name
Sun and Moon somehow had a worse online system than XY though... They completely revamped something that didn't need to be scrapped, rather than just improving it.
And, yes, they have advertised post-game content even months before launch, including some very early on like many post-game-only Mega Evolutions.
It's hard to take that as an explanation when they don't really make any comparison. That's probably why I forgot that bit of the Famitsu interview in the first place. If they said the main story would be twice as long as usual or something that would be a point, but the whole language there is really vague. It's still mostly announcing they're making a big cut without announcing anything to make up for that.
I see where you're coming from, but by that logic, Smash for Wii U and especially 3DS have more content than Smash Brawl, or Mario Kart 8 (without DLC) has more content than Mario Kart DS, or Pokemon X/Y have more than Heart Gold / Soul Silver, which I think most would agree they really don't.
The single player content that matters most in a game with many choices (e.g. characters, weapons, karts, Pokemon) is what you do with the choices, not so much the choices themselves. Ultimately people are going to have, use, and play with a small subset of the full list of choices anyway, so the content that would create more meaningful hours of gameplay would be the gameplay itself.
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. It's fair to be skeptical of how much content Game Freak is putting into the game, given we've been having less since Gen 6 (at least compared to Gen 4 or 5), but they're not going to announce everything at once, so it's a "wait and see" type of situation.
I just have this (likely groundless) worry that GF/PC will either push for Nintendo to go back to the 2-system formula, make a Pokemon-centric platform, or stick to what they are currently doing on mobile, but take it a step further.
What part don't you understand? content is obviously more than just Pokemon models, so a blanket statement (which is what im referring to) about the game having less content than the 3ds version simply for having some of the previous Pokemon unusable is a lie.
The original supposition was "why should I pay 20 dollars more for a product with less content"
That's not them saying Pokemon doesn't equal content. That's them saying having fewer Pokemon doesn't mean the game will have less content overall. I can see that the way it's worded could be read both ways, but everything they've said since makes it clear what they meant.
I'm not sure I understand the Smash and Mario Kart comparison here. 3DS and Wii U lack subspace emissary but have other single player modes and they have more fighters. MK8 doesn't have mission mode but has more tracks, racers and another racing tier. XY has less post game facilities than HGSS but it does have more Pokémon to make up for it. Do I like XY more than HGSS? Not really, but that's besides the point.
There are less potential egg moves. There are less potential team combinations. There are less choices and what you can do with the choices you do have now.
Yep. Never forget mobile
Considering an interview from the Let's Go days where breeding wasnt considered fun well....
Pokemon are content.
All else being equal, having fewer Pokemon means having less content vs having all Pokemon. This contradicts your "does not and will not ever equate to less content."
if a fruit cup has 3 pineapples and 2 apples for example, and the next one has 1 pineapple, 3 apples, 4 strawberries and 2 pieces of melon; yeah, the second one has less pineapples but that doesn't mean it has less fruit, and also stating that less pineapples doesn't necessarily mean less fruit doesn't mean that pineapples are not fruit. It is just that pineapples are not the only fruit. If you don't undertand this you are a lost cause.
No shit they're content. As is the story, gameplay options and extra quests etc, which we know little of.
Despite myself and other users pointing out how obvious this inference should be, you're continuing to act the fool.
It is correct to say that there being less Pokemon in the game does not equate to to the total sum of all content in the game being necessarily lower than the total sum of all content of previous games, which is what lvl 99 Pixel has been saying the entire time.
EDIT: Of course this depends on the highly subjective interpretation of how much value a piece of content has. If one Pokemon is worth ten thousand pieces of other content to you, then the new games will never have more content than previous entries according to you. Which is also a perfectly valid opinion to have.
Last edited:
I find this really difficult to believe after all these years, honestly. I hope I'm wrong, been burned too many times already.
I'm thinking about buying a pre-owned copy.
I dont personally care about Dexit so I decided I was gonna buy the game, but I think it's important to take a stance anyway.
It's a shame the hashtag thing got derailed into harassment and sending mail to GF sounds a tad silly to me, so I think the best course of action is just not support the game with your money. That is something they will absolutely pay attention to.
I dont personally care about Dexit so I decided I was gonna buy the game, but I think it's important to take a stance anyway.
It's a shame the hashtag thing got derailed into harassment and sending mail to GF sounds a tad silly to me, so I think the best course of action is just not support the game with your money. That is something they will absolutely pay attention to.
If the game had more content than the handheld ones, it would have been a marketing point from day one. "The biggest _______ game ever!" is marketing 101 when it applies. And I'm quite certain when someone finally does get a content length answer from Gamefreak, the answer will be in the realm of "comparable to the handheld games," which because of the diminished amount of Pokémon does in fact mean less content.
Conjecture? Technically yes. But it's also pretty much common sense at this point given Gamefreak's history and the overall messaging and marketing for the game thus far. I'll happily eat crow if wrong, but if so then good lord Gamefreak needs to overhaul their marketing.
Conjecture? Technically yes. But it's also pretty much common sense at this point given Gamefreak's history and the overall messaging and marketing for the game thus far. I'll happily eat crow if wrong, but if so then good lord Gamefreak needs to overhaul their marketing.
Game Freak literally released a game last year without 656 of the existing Pokémon and their only post game at all was a bunch of joke trainers with dumb strats, ballooned stats, and high levels peppered across the land using the same damn stuff you've seen all game.
And some y'all want to act like they're realistically going to deliver anything worthwhile after cutting a bunch of things again.
And some y'all want to act like they're realistically going to deliver anything worthwhile after cutting a bunch of things again.
The can't use "The biggest__ever" if you can't use every Pokemon. No matter how many content it has, not having every Pokémon in the code already makes it incomplete lol
Yeah I don't see why people are expecting a lot more content from this game than from past titles. They haven't indicated in their messaging that this will be case, and I think that just as they did before the reveal of the game, people are setting themselves up to be disappointed by twisting their expectations.
Especially because the track record and trajectory of the series couldn't be clearer. After Gen 5 was done and from Gen 6 onwards, Pokémon has been about simplification and reduced depth (in story and scope) and I believe that this will continue with Gen 8. Why would anyone expect anything other than this? Especially knowing the things people from Gamefreak are on the record saying about complexity, depth and scope (with the Battle Frontier in ORAS for example)
The Pokemon games aren't (and never were) "high-calibre RPGs" like Final Fantasy. Most people don't play Pokemon games from the complex stories or deeply written characters (if you do, then I'm glad you enjoyed those parts of the older games). We play them because of our attachment to the Pokemon themselves. For example, my favorite game is Emerald and there's a pretty clear reason for that - it was my first Pokemon game. I love the Hoenn region and its characters (mainly due to nostalgia) but even I won't deny that story in the Hoenn games is borderline nonsensical (where one evil team is trying to flood the entire world, presumably hoping they'd survive said flooding?) and most of the characters are pretty forgettable (with exceptions like Steven Stone and Wally in ORAS). So for a lot of us, the presence of all the Pokemon in the game is a huge part of the "content" on offer.
I get that maybe the ways others play the Pokemon games are totally different, and I have no issues with that. There's a reason the series has such broad appeal. But like many have said before, for me personally, the absence of all the Pokemon in the game is a hugely significant cutting of content, enough to end my interest in playing the games at all. It's fine if you (or others in the thread) don't feel that way, but clearly a lot us do
Last edited:
- Status