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A Prisoner Who Briefly Died Argues That He’s Served His Life Sentence

Papercuts

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,580
That is a pretty damn creative argument atleast.

Obviously they can't let that fly, since anyone with a life sentence have no reason not to try some life threatening thing that might have a chance to replicate that.
 

Grug

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,632
murderers have rights, it's part of the system.
This. We either care about legally protected rights or we don’t. Making exceptions based on arbitrary, emotionally motivated “lines in the sand” is the start of a slippery slope.

You can literally see people transitioning into Tory sub-Boomers in real time on here.

Irredeemable piece of shit or not, dude was entitled to test his argument in court.
 

MrCibb

Member
Dec 12, 2018
907
UK
He either survived dying, or is a zombie. If it's the former, he's still got his life sentence to finish. And if it's the latter, he should be set free and sent to fight plants for our entertainment.
 

GaimeGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,633
This is prioritizing the letter of the law over the spirit of it in the dumbest possible way. But regardless he never actually died, resuscitatation isn’t resurrection
Is it even doing that, though?
Was his death recorded into state records clerically? His Social security number rescinded? A new birth certificate issued?

Medically he was dead, but legally he wasn't, and, as the judge said, plainly speaking, he hasn't died.
 

Mondai

Member
Dec 8, 2018
2,588
It always irks me when people are described as "being dead for 2 minutes", or "briefly died". No they didn't. If you die, you die. You don't die and then you're ok. You weren't dead.
I guess when I didn;t die for more than 2 minutes and the doctors told my parents to plan a funeral doesn't count then huh.
 

God_Of_Phwoar

Member
May 29, 2018
2,728
Near London UK
I guess when I didn;t die for more than 2 minutes and the doctors told my parents to plan a funeral doesn't count then huh.
You didnt die, and I'm delighted you're still alive. Your heart probably stopped. You were likely in cardiac arrest. You stopped breathing. Your vital signs may have briefly stopped. But you didn't die, unless I'm talking to a ghost.

WOW people have strong feelings on this one.
 

Mondai

Member
Dec 8, 2018
2,588
You didnt die, and I'm delighted you're still alive. Your heart probably stopped. You were likely in cardiac arrest. You stopped breathing. Your vital signs may have briefly stopped. But you didn't die, unless I'm talking to a ghost.

WOW people have strong feelings on this one.
Heheh its cool, naw Im not a ghost yet ,I was saying it in jest (my attitude, not the "dying" thing, it happened when I was a baby), just don't say that to people who wouldn't know the difference :P , they might overreact :P
 

LastCaress

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
890
Sounding a bit ignorant here (or maybe I'm the ignorant one), care to go into further detail?
It's hyperbole that I guess even doctors are 'guilty' of doing, generally when a person goes into cardiac / cardiopulmonary arrest. You aren't dead just because your heart stops or your breathing stops.
 

Pedrito

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,181
You haven't died until you touched the light at the end of the dark tunnel. If you only made it halfway through the tunnel before resuscitation, it doesn't count as death.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,015
Dude's been in prison for 20+ years if he poses no danger to society anymore he should be released anyway
 

Wolfe

Member
Sep 3, 2018
211
I get that, but there's been many cases of being "dead" for longer than a couple minutes and it kinda feels like arguing semantics due to someone in that state being dead if there is no intervention.

But then again my ignorance far outweighs my knowledge so whatever.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,439
This was the first thing I thought of and am so happy to see it as the first reply. Well done.



If I'm on the operating table and my heart stops beating I'm dead right? Surely I'm dead if no one does anything. But if the medical staff intervene and restart my heart then we can agree I'm alive. IDK I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your sentiment (our nomenclature of death implies permanence) but it seems to me that you can be technically dead and then brought back to life in medical terms.
You were still not dead, but you sure would be dead if the doctors didn’t act. If you heart stops you are not dead, you are in the path of dying. If your brain activities stop, you are dead.
 

Spawnsniper

Member
Oct 28, 2017
354
The fact that ge had a DNR but they still brought him back is bs in my book... he has a point though.
 

neon_dream

Member
Dec 18, 2017
3,433
I mean, what do you call not having any signs of life then? Because I thought it's even accepted by doctors and nurses that you could die but be resuscitated back to life.
If I'm on the operating table and my heart stops beating I'm dead right? Surely I'm dead if no one does anything. But if the medical staff intervene and restart my heart then we can agree I'm alive. IDK I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your sentiment (our nomenclature of death implies permanence) but it seems to me that you can be technically dead and then brought back to life in medical terms.
You're not dead until you're brain dead. You're not brain dead until several minutes without blood flow, more than just a few seconds of the heart not beating. That's the entire point of resuscitation, shocking the heart, or machines that breathe for you.

 

CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,957
I guess I can't blame the guy for trying that defense though it's not surprising that the courts rejected it.
 

Foxashel

Member
Jul 18, 2019
526
Let him go. He served his time and also experienced death so he knows the pain that comes with death and has probably learned his lesson.
 

BackLogJoe

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
677
This is stupid. If he was pronounced dead, legally, by a coroner, then he’s dead. Go back to jail, buddy.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,015
You're not dead until you're brain dead. You're not brain dead until several minutes without blood flow, more than just a few seconds of the heart not beating. That's the entire point of resuscitation, shocking the heart, or machines that breathe for you.

You don't defibrillate unless there is a heartbeat. You do CPR to keep blood flowing and the brain supplied with oxygen and try to get a heartbeat going through other means or hope it returns naturally but defibrillation is only done to reset the heart from various arrhythmia.
 

wandering

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,550
Pacific Northwest
You didnt die, and I'm delighted you're still alive. Your heart probably stopped. You were likely in cardiac arrest. You stopped breathing. Your vital signs may have briefly stopped. But you didn't die, unless I'm talking to a ghost.

WOW people have strong feelings on this one.
It's hyperbole that I guess even doctors are 'guilty' of doing, generally when a person goes into cardiac / cardiopulmonary arrest. You aren't dead just because your heart stops or your breathing stops.
Clinical death is a thing, and is referred to as such.
 
Dec 31, 2017
2,016
I read this story earlier, and one thing I found interesting was this:



Which seems messed up, in my opinion.
Unconscious =/= dead. The doctor's did not violate the DNR; they did the right thing.

If they administered CPR after there was no detectable heartbeat then they would have violated it.

If this is actually what happened, then he never really died. IV "resuscitation" is not the same as cardiopulmonary.
 
Dec 31, 2017
2,016
FYI physicians can declare a person dead after failed CPR, without explicitly measuring brain activity.

From the scant details in the article, this guy didn't fit the definition of cardiac OR brain death. He never underwent cardiopulmonary resuscitation. His "resuscitation" was IV resuscitation. Which you would give to a person for various reasons, one commonly being hypotension/hypovolemia.

His argument is akin to someone with an infection saying "I would have died if the doctors didn't give me any antibiotics."

Unless someone can find more details on his medical care that specify that he underwent cardiac arrest.
 

Pandaman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
763
Sounding a bit ignorant here (or maybe I'm the ignorant one), care to go into further detail?
Your heart and lungs are just organs that pump fluids, they don't really matter. They can stop, they can be replaced wholesale and you're still you, because your brain activity *is* you.
 

Wolfe

Member
Sep 3, 2018
211
On the flip side there have been cases of people with no brain activity for multiple hours but kept "alive" through machines, only to make a full recovery.

Shits weird, appreciate the discourse.
 

Musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,650
You didnt die, and I'm delighted you're still alive. Your heart probably stopped. You were likely in cardiac arrest. You stopped breathing. Your vital signs may have briefly stopped. But you didn't die, unless I'm talking to a ghost.

WOW people have strong feelings on this one.
I mean we have clinical and legal definitions of things for reasons. If he met the clinical definition of being deceased then he was in fact dead.