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alr1ght

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,053
https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys
jAoWIvh.png



Want to sell them on your own website? 100% of the revenue goes to you, and your customers can activate it on Steam and use all of its features.
Want to sell them on Humble, GMG, etc? Whatever % of the sale that store takes, and your customers can activate it on Steam and use all of its features.
Want to give them away for free? Your customers can activate it on Steam and use all of its features.
 

Deleted member 50969

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 17, 2018
892
https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys
jAoWIvh.png



Want to sell them on your own website? 100% of the revenue goes to you, and your customers can activate it on Steam and use all of its features.
Want to sell them on Humble, GMG, etc? Whatever % of the sale that store takes, and your customers can activate it on Steam and use all of its features.
Want to give them away for free? Your customers can activate it on Steam and use all of its features.

What about if a customer doesn't want to use Steam?
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
Not sure this cut is justified. Valve should be paying these pubs and devs for selling outside of Steam.
 

Snowybreak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,329
Alright, here's one. Are they able to delist their games from steam's storefront while continuing to host them on Valve's servers and client?
 
OP
OP
alr1ght

alr1ght

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,053
Why must the service be used "judiciously"? Are there limits to these keys then?
Keep reading that link.

Steam Key Rules and Guidelines
  • You should use keys to sell your game on other stores in a similar way to how you sell your game on Steam. It is important that you don't give Steam customers a worse deal.

  • It's OK to run a discount on different stores at different times as long as you plan to give a comparable offer to Steam customers within a reasonable amount of time.

  • Occasionally it may make sense to offer your game in a bundle or subscription, timed at the right point in a game's life cycle. Keep in mind that the perceived price in the bundle/subscription should be a price you are willing to run the game at a standalone price or discount on Steam. For example, 10 games in a bundle that costs $5 USD may have a perceived price of $.50 per game. Similarly, 10 games for $10 through a subscription this month may have a perceived price of $1 each.

  • Steam keys shouldn't be given away for free if you aren't also offering the same deal (i.e., give the game away for free) to Steam customers. If you want to run a giveaway on Steam, please reach out to us at [email protected]

  • Steam keys shouldn't be sold in bulk. For example, you should not sell your game on sites that offer customers the option to purchase large numbers of copies of your game for a lower price. You should also not include your game in bundles on sites that allow customers to purchase multiple copies of the bundle for a lower price.

  • We reserve the right to deny requests for keys or revoke key requesting privileges for partners that are abusing them or disadvantaging Steam customers.

  • If we detect that you have requested an extreme number of keys and you aren't offering Steam customers a good value, we may deny your request.

  • We reserve the right to remove key requesting privileges from any partner whose sole business is selling Steam keys and not providing value or a fair deal to Steam customers.

    Keys cannot be generated for the following:
    • "Free" products
      If you want to give away keys for a free package or something that will never go on sale (event giveaways, special promotions, etc), please contact Valve.
    • Steam Bundles
      Steam keys cannot be generated for Steam bundles. You will need to generate keys for the individual apps in the bundle.
 

baconcow

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,814
Not sure this cut is justified. Valve should be paying these pubs and devs for selling outside of Steam.

Not sure I understand what you're saying. Beyond receiving 0% cut and providing the bandwidth and application for downloading the game, Valve should pay pubs and devs for sellers games outside of Steam?
 

Sean Mirrsen

Banned
May 9, 2018
1,159
Alright, here's one. Are they able to delist their games from steam's storefront while continuing to host them on Valve's servers and client?
I currently have Dead Island in my Steam library, and when I try to go to its store page it goes to the store frontpage because the game is delisted in favor of the Definitive Edition. I can still download the game and its DLC fine, apparently.
Why must the service be used "judiciously"? Are there limits to these keys then?
Essentially, if a publisher decides to sell all of its game copies away from Steam, while still using Steam's distribution network, Steam will have reason to retaliate. If a publisher generates too many free keys without a certain amount of sales, the ability to generate keys will be taken away until there are more sales. So it's a deterring measure to enforce fair play with the feature.
 

Deleted member 8245

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,013
So the question is: why don't they? Why are there not more smaller developers offering their games directly on their own website with the choice of an executable or a link to a Steam key? Is it too much hassle? Are they scared they won't get visibility if they're not for sale directly on Steam?
 

Snowybreak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,329
currently have Dead Island in my Steam library, and when I try to go to its store page it goes to the store frontpage because the game is delisted in favor of the Definitive Edition. I can still download the game and its DLC fine, apparently.

To further the question, are the devs able to continue generating keys for that version after it has been delisted?
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Go to the cupboard and fetch me my double standards. We are going to argue about steam.
 

Deleted member 5764

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,574
This is nice and all, but it's not like developers can sell all of their game copies this way. Valve makes it pretty clear that the titles must also be listed on Steam, and that you can't give Steam users a lesser deal. They also have some vague wording about how you can and should only request small batches of keys at one time. Finally, Steam reserves the right to deny your key request.

I'm not sure why some folks treat this offer as some unknown silver bullet against the better cut that Epic provides on their store.
 

Deleted member 2620

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
is this reminder directed at the devs who feel the cut is unwarranted?

I think it's a great thing, but I'd also be surprised if these keys were the majority of a noteworthy number of game's sales.
 

Hasseigaku

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,545
I wonder how significant a percentage of sales this actually affects. My guess, given everything we've heard is not much, thus gaining Valve more money from hooking people into their ecosystem.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Judiciously means they can't just do it to circumvent the Steam cut tho, OP.

The idea is that you can't take advantage of all the various benefits that they provide for free on their platform, while simultaneously withholding business from their platform. I'm trying to think of a scenario where you want to use all of steam stuff, but not sell on steam at all, and have this not constitute abuse of a very fair offer.
 

Snowybreak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,329

Stardestroyer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,819
I am curious OP, why do you care that steam can do this? Do you own valve stock?

This is nice and all, but it's not like developers can sell all of their game copies this way. Valve makes it pretty clear that the titles must also be listed on Steam, and that you can't give Steam users a lesser deal. They also have some vague wording about how you can and should only request small batches of keys at one time. Finally, Steam reserves the right to deny your key request.

I'm not sure why some folks treat this offer as some unknown silver bullet against the better cut that Epic provides on their store.
Not sure why OP felt the need to make this topic. Does OP own stock or something? I am extremely bias against companies holding a near monopoly, so I don't care about Valve as much. So that definitely clouds my judgment.

I think companies should be able to use whatever service that gives them a good deal. The idea that multple clients is bad has always been a stupid childish idea that only benefits 1 company (aka valve shills).

We use multiple clients in our daily lives, it doesn't take any more effort to open a second client. Publishers and developers should be free to choose whatever services gives that gives them the best deal.
 

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
Essentially, if a publisher decides to sell all of its game copies away from Steam, while still using Steam's distribution network, Steam will have reason to retaliate. If a publisher generates too many free keys without a certain amount of sales, the ability to generate keys will be taken away until there are more sales. So it's a deterring measure to enforce fair play with the feature.
Wow, that's super lame.
Keep reading that link.
If it's so limited, why even include it? It's a cool function, but the fine print is kinda very limiting.
This seems like we're moving into Step 3: Bargaining.
I suppose disruptive is not a bad choice of term for what's been happening in the PC distributor space.
 

Stardestroyer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,819
Valve is not a public company.

I made this topic because people make bullshit arguments about percentage cut and "competition" by buying timed exclusivity.
I know valve is not a public trade company. It was a nicer way of asking if you are a shill.

I believe that companies should to what benefits itself in terms of publishing their products. The topic you made is pointless on our end, since we the players have no control over what services publishers use to release their products. devs are gonna go with the company that offers the best deal. Just like we all do in our daily lives.
 

Hasseigaku

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,545
Valve is not a public company.

I made this topic because people make bullshit arguments about percentage cut and "competition" by buying timed exclusivity.

Sorry, but arguments about percentages are not bullshit because it's highly likely an enormous number of sales come through the Steam store.

We don't have any solid sales figures but it's clear that they have an enormous majority of sales working through their ecosystem.
 
OP
OP
alr1ght

alr1ght

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,053
I believe that companies should to what benefits itself in terms of publishing their products. The topic you made is pointless on our end, since we the players have no control over what services publishers use to release their products. devs are gonna go with the company that offers the best deal. Just like we all do in our daily lives.
Yes, I agree no one would use Epic Games Store over any other client. Publishers can be criticized for things that make the consumer experience worse.
 

Giever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,756
Not only does Steam not let you use their servers and all of the benefits of Steam for 100% free without listing your game on Steam, Gabe doesn't even come to your house and perform weekly fellatio. Frankly, it's unjustified.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I suspect there is something more fundamental underlying the vague and specious criticisms of steam.
 

PachaelD

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,504
This seems like we're moving into Step 3: Bargaining.

Well, it's not as if competitors haven't been around from GOG (DRM free) to Origin/Uplay (publisher run stores) to Amazon (free games with Prime) to Discord (we're getting exclusives too and giving 90% to devs!)... and not to mention WeGame I guess... but Epic's taken a lot of the above and is trying to run away with it like Fortnite has so I'd like to see how far it goes - open platform and all.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
is this reminder directed at the devs who feel the cut is unwarranted?

I think it's a great thing, but I'd also be surprised if these keys were the majority of a noteworthy number of game's sales.
no, it's a please join me in defending a giant corporation that doesn't need to be defended because apparently I both need to shout how bad epic is while also coming off desperate to prove how good steam is.

Maybe just let it speak for itself if it's so good and has so many features?
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,587
So, no matter what, if a dev wants to use Steam to host their games, they must have it listed on the storefront to make any money from it. And because consumers are lazy, it doesn't matter if you can generate and sell keys somewhere else, most people are just gonna buy through the storefront, meaning Valve is going to take 30% of those sales.

That's basically it. Plus, the rules say that you can't sell keys for any lower than the price on Steam. In practice there's some wiggle-room there, and they generally don't mind unless you're taking the piss, but Valve retain the ultimate right to deny issuing keys for any (or no) reason.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Metro Exodus, as it seems to be well beyond what you'd expect Valve to tolerate (unless the exclusivity period on the Epic Store is very brief).
 

Giever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,756
Sorry, but arguments about percentages are not bullshit because it's highly likely an enormous number of sales come through the Steam store.

We don't have any solid sales figures but it's clear that they have an enormous majority of sales working through their ecosystem.
This is a bit of rough research on that from another thread on this topic, recently:
Ok lets do an exercise in statistics not using hypotheticals but what is already publicly available knowledge.

Context

Steam reviews categorize who did the review by whether they purchased through the steam storefront, or registered a code for the game from elsewhere. When you look at the breakdown of steam reviews they give you the exact number.

Steam takes a 30% cut of games sold through their storefont. It takes a 0% cut of games not sold through their storefront that register on steam.

Foundational assumption - there is no statistical difference between steam purchasers and non-steam purchasers for how likely they are to review a game they own on Steam for any given game.

I will not be giving aggregate stats because I'm picking games at random that show up on the home page or that I think of and would therefore not assume the numbers are fully accurate to make a representative average based on. I do think they're going to be adequate for getting the message across, though.

Results

DragonBall Fighter Z - 68.7% steam, 31.3% other
Resident Evil 2 Remake - 52.9% steam, 47.1% other
Shadow of the Tomb Raider - 65% steam, 35% other
Bioshock Infinite - 70.2% steam, 29.8% other
Nier Automata - 65.6% steam, 34.4% other
Skyrim - 61.6% steam, 38.4% other
Kingdom Come Deliverence - 68% steam, 32% other
Pillars of Eternity 2 - 63% steam, 37% other
Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2 - 92% steam, 8% other
Batman Arkham Knight - 45% steam, 55% other

PUBG - 84.3% steam, 15.7% other
Day Z - 85% steam, 15% other
Rust - 74.3% steam, 25.7% other

Celeste - 91% steam, 9% other
Owlboy - 58.1% steam, 41.9% other
Hollow Knight - 86.7% steam, 13.3% other
Inside - 83.6% steam, 16.4% other
Rocket League - 71% steam - 29% other
Rimworld - 78.4% steam, 21.6% other

30% is not an accurate figure that represents what share of revenue Steam takes from games. Valve pays for the distribution of every copy registered, and gives all of it's features to all steam copies, but only takes the 30% cut on between 60% and 90% of copies sold, varying wildly game to game based on that game's individual circumstances. We cannot calculate the "True cut" because we do not know the differences in revenue between Retail / Kickstarter / Humble Bundle / Reputable Other Storefronts / Shonky Eastern European CD Key Website for a comparison of revenue, and because we don't know how much each copy was sold for on Steam (i.e. some might be frontloaded, others might be mostly sold during 75% off sales). But we do know that 30% is not the true number.
 

Hasseigaku

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,545
That's basically it. Plus, the rules say that you can't sell keys for any lower than the price on Steam. In practice there's some wiggle-room there, and they generally don't mind unless you're taking the piss, but Valve retain the ultimate right to deny issuing keys for any (or no) reason.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Metro Exodus, as it seems to be well beyond what you'd expect Valve to tolerate (unless the exclusivity period on the Epic Store is very brief).

So basically since you can't offer it for less on third party sites, most sales are still going to go through Steam anyways (since that's where the users are) thus meaning any benefit is essentially null?
 

Mechanized

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,442
Tim Sweeney is gonna break down the door to your house and make you use the Epic Launcher and you're gonna love it.