A Second Letter to Resettlers; or "But The Future Refused to Change"

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,803
United States
Hi everyone. It's me, Finale Fireworker. You may remember me for making threads with long OPs hardly anyone reads. Let's continue that tradition together. Please do not use this thread to air your grievances about the old forum. Such points of contention could not be more against what I am asking for herein.

The inception of this forum was a momentous opportunity to reflect on ourselves as netizens, and as we resolved to preserve the essential qualities of our longstanding community, we also acknowledged our potential to improve. The first few weeks of this forum were defined by our collective interest in being more articulate in our emotions, taking things seriously while also treating them with care, and not falling victim to the habits and pratfalls of our predecessor forum. I think most of us here really cared about creating a community that was more welcoming, less judgmental, and was able to regain our ground as an influential hub of the hobby by releasing our deathgrip on all things negative. After all, we are on this forum and contribute to its existence because we love video games – not because we hate them.

And for the most part, I think we have done well at this. We make positive threads with positive messages. We make threads that cherish the medium that brings us here. And when we’re critical, we attempt to be so thoughtfully. Most of the threads that attempt to spotlight issues within our hobby do so with detailed OPs and provide room for disagreement. I’ve liked that. This is what makes this place feel lighter, brighter, and like home.

But Nothere’s prescient meltdown thread was foreboding to me. I am not averse to a fan frenzy – it’s the nature of any enthusiast forum. A big reveal or a major launch or a significant controversy is always going to dominate discussion. These “meltdowns” cannot be avoided and aren’t inherently bad online events. But I think the danger of these meltdowns is how dramatically they predispose the community to overreaction and hyperbole. It normalizes the stress that these subjects incite. It spills into other threads, endures indefinitely, and then animosity and antagonism become common.

In my first thread on the forum, something I attempted broach to members was mitigating our inclination to exaggerate. When we are on full blast all the time, it affects the way we talk to each other. It makes everything either the best or the worst thing that's ever happened and it disintegrates the possibility for nuance. Members, including myself, mirror and replicate the energy of the threads they participate in. This is how dogpiling happens. This is how circular threads of enormous volume dominate the front page. This predisposes us to more and more meltdowns. This turns the whole forum into a ticking time bomb providing only brief respite between detonations.

Right now, our community is being shaped by the controversy surrounding Battlefront II and EA’s implementation of lootboxes. This was our first meltdown. And, truth be told, it’s not a bad meltdown to have. 2017 is the Year of the Lootbox. It is a time where the industry is experimenting with how far microtransactions and games as a service can go. These experiments are bound to incite consumer response, and that response is important, because it will affect the direction of future games. I don't make light of this at all. What is currently happening is an industrial conversation between creators and consumers and this is inevitable and vital to the survival of any industry.

But it is also a test.

I am not what anyone would call a gentle poster. I am extremely political. My relationship with the games I love are personality defining. Being part of this forum is less of a routine of casual visitation and more an act of lifestyle. I have no right to cast stones at people for being heated because I am a heated poster too. This thread isn’t a reminder for a specific subset of people. This thread isn’t a preachy proclamation about how other people need to behave differently. This thread is for me too. It's for all of us.

Eventually, Battlefront II is going to launch. People are going to buy it, play it, and probably like it. People will want to talk about it and make community threads and not be criticized or lambasted for enjoying it. EA is going to make other video games. Other video games will have microtransactions and lootboxes. What is important is that we move forward without letting our baggage be cumulative. We cannot enter every thread about these subjects or these companies bearing the grudge of every previous slight.

If we are going to survive as a fresh community that does not replicate the mistakes of its forerunner, we have to learn to let go. We have to show some restraint. We have to allow room for nuance.

If we cannot do this, we will have more and more meltdowns. These meltdowns will define us and affect how the industry and other players perceive us. We will be infamous for our inability to handle certain topics, we will be ridiculed for our extremity, and we will lose the plot of why we all came here. I am not recommending that people care less – we are members of this forum because we care about games a lot. But we must reduce the venom in our discourse. We must be conscious of what we contribute to, and how to counteract, one of gaming’s most infamous buzzwords: toxicity.

I ask this community to please be aware of what we’re contributing to. All of our posts are building blocks. They are energy into the zeitgeist of gaming. We shape and morph and reconfigure our forum with tens of thousands of prodding fingers every day. This place is a living and breathing beast that should not contribute to the stereotypes and commonalities that poison our hobby. Do not succumb to the temptations of old habits. Learn to let go, let incidents be isolated, and do not burden yourself or the community with the residue of acrimony.

Post about what you love and treat your fellow member with compassion.

Don’t be a caricature.




Be a Resettler.


Solidarity, 1932 by Kathe Kollwitz. (recolored Purple) Expressionism.
 
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JazzmanZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,929
I just hope our staff plays an active roll in making sure this isnt frequent
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,799
Yeah we still see a lot of inflammatory thread titles and people dogpiling on well articulated dissenting opinions (as opposed to just drive by shitposting dissent). People get inflamed really easily and conversations escalate. I don't know how to make this better because oftentimes people so it without breaking any actual rules, just unnecessary escalation.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,411
It still astonishes me how emotional people get about everything involving games. I've already been told multiple times that certain opinions of mine on a video game is a "hot take" that was just said to get attention, even though I literally only said I didn't like the game.

People need to calm da fuq down and just enjoy shit and stop taking every post so seriously. They are video games, they aren't important enough to get irrationally emotional over with everything you disagree with.

But I don't think this is a ResetERA problem, it's an internet problem. People need to chill the fuck out. Like, gat damn, people.
 

LazerRanger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
96
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
We have to try to find ways to be nuanced in the way we react even when we are addressing issues we aren't happy with.
I do believe we should make out feelings clear on the abuse of lootboxes but hope people can remain as calm as possible.
 
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Finale Fireworker

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,803
United States
This is the most civil forum I've ever been a part of so far
I agree with this completely. It's like nothing else on the internet - which is why It's important to me that it is preserved as such. This thread isn't meant as damage control, it's preemptive. If we value how ResetEra is now we should be all part of the agenda to keep it that way.
 

Debiddo

Member
Nov 11, 2017
118
This is a good post. I was never a member of NeoGAF but I lurked often and witnessed what occurred, but I decided to buck that and join up once I discovered ResetEra after reading what the staff was hoping to achieve. So far it's been lovely and I hope it remains that way for the future.
 

deadfolk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,983
Hear, hear. Thank you for such a thoughtful post. I could not agree more. Let's keep this a nice place to be.
 

Neapolitan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
340
Indonesia
Go read the OP entirely, don't be lazy.


I agree wholeheartedly, OP. You put the things so eloquently.

I think this is the right moment to bring up this little clip:
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,375
I agree. The hyperbole about everything not only lowers our level of discourse, but causes all of the other issues you've outlined. Good thread.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,493
I concur. It's a huge forum, and there's always going to be some unneeded aggression and hyperbole that we're not going to be able to get a handle of, but I think it's very important that this forum keeps its core identity full of love and respect.
 
Oct 30, 2017
10,281
We need to do a better job of not making blanket statements when discussing video game ethics. Especially with the lootbox issue, some posters have taken it as an opportunity to create this binary "if you play this game you support blah blah blah." It's a line-in-the-sand comment that attempts to support a hivemind mentality of us vs. them. I hate hivemind thinking and I do not want to see it develop here. It became a hot button issue you know where and resulted in a lot of division.
 

Mr.Flufferson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
214
I defintely think there should be a place for people to talk about games they like without being overwhelmed by people who are complaining about loot boxes or something. I think a good compromise is to have multiple threads. With battlefront we have the OT and a thread about lootboxes. If you want to talk about lootboxes, use that thread. The OT should just be for talking about the game itself.
 

Chocobo Blade

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,457
Such is the nature of internet discussion and I don't think anything can really be done about this. Actually I'm fairly convinced a lot of people enjoy participating in overly dramatic meltdowns and wouldn't have it any other way.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,411
We need to do a better job of making blanket statements when discussing video game ethics. Especially with the lootbox issue, some posters have taken it as an opportunity to create this binary "if you play this game you support blah blah blah." It's a line-in-the-sand comment that attempts to support a hivemind mentality of us vs. them. I hate hivemind thinking and I do not want to see it develop here. It became a hot button issue you know where and resulted in a lot of division.
I can't stand this shit. Not just in terms of video games, but everything. Sorry, just because I bought a ticket to see a movie where one of the co-stars is a sex offender, it doesn't mean I'm all of a sudden a sex offender supporter that needs to be shunned from society.
 
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Finale Fireworker

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,803
United States
It's not really in the spirit of the thread, but sure: this forum is is susceptible to the same problems that ail other forums, including the old one where a lot of us came from. Dogpiling, harassment, flaming, groupthink, etc. These problems manifest in different ways here than they do elsewhere thanks to careful moderation, but we should still be proactive in preserving the kind of community we want to be part of. Respect each other, listen to each other, and be willing to walk away. Focus on what you love, not what you hate, and don't carry the baggage of every bad thread forward into infinity.

Such is the nature of internet discussion and I don't think anything can really be done about this. Actually I'm fairly convinced a lot of people enjoy participating in overly dramatic meltdowns and wouldn't have it any other way.
And this is honestly fine, but we should keep drama contained. And people who relish in the opportunity to despise something with all their hearts should be aware of the fact most people do not come here to be miserable. I'm not asking people to stop getting upset about things, I'm asking we be reasonable.
 

Cien

Member
Oct 25, 2017
973
I am already seeing flashes of the old place here sometimes, but so far, the moderators have done a good job of trying to curb it.
 

Dr.Acula

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,684
I feel like devs/pubs will keep pushing the GaaS/MT boundaries, and negative coverage on social media is one of the few tools that has been demonstrated to work (XBOne DRM policy being walked back).

And the problems forums need to avoid is not having "too many meltdowns," it's having a singular owner that may have a horse in the race and a moderation team that operates without transparency, giving a given forum a bias towards one dev/pub over another and steering discussion that would encourage or suppress certain meltdowns over others.
 

Kosma

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
56
User warned: Don't insult the ex-GAF mods. They are regular posters here who deserve respect like everybody else.
Less rules and modship is the key

all opinions if civil should be welcome

the gaf groupthink and flavour of the month facist modship contributed to its downfall
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,702
It's not really in the spirit of the thread, but sure: this forum is is susceptible to the same problems that ail other forums, including the old one where a lot of us came from. Dogpiling, harassment, flaming, groupthink, etc. These problems manifest in different ways here than they do elsewhere thanks to careful moderation, but we should still be proactive in preserving the kind of community we want to be part of. Respect each other, listen to each other, and be willing to walk away. Focus on what you love, not what you hate, and don't carry the baggage of every bad thread forward into infinity.
Yeah, be nice and respect one another, I kinda got that from holding hands picture.

I am always nice and respectful.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
10,563
The fantastic part of this forum is that if I want to ignore the whole lootbox meltdown the gaming community is having, I can!
It doesn't spill into unrelated threads and I can go my merry way.
I avoid anything EA anyway so it doesn't impact me much.
As long as we avoid the shitty fanboy wars and unsubstantiated arguments we should be ok.
We can thank the mods and the community for having an active forum that is not a cesspool
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Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,639
I think this place so far is fantastic and honestly I see no need for concern at all. It doesn't feel like the straight jacket the old place felt like where you were terrified to post sometimes. Battlefront 2 was a HUGE story and the only meltdown I saw was at EA. We were upset but hardly unhinged imo.
 

Kouriozan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,110
Good post and I agree very much.
I’m naturally very optimistic myself, maybe too much for my own good even but I can take bad or disappointing news without going crazy.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
10,563
Less rules and modship is the key

all opinions if civil should be welcome

the gaf groupthink and flavour of the month facist modship contributed to its downfall
Less rules and a more laxist moderation is exactly what we need if we want this place to turn into another 4chan with shitty memes where minorities are the butt of all the jokes.
We don't need a discussion about whether or not we think we allow marginalized groups should be allowed to live or not.
 

Kyzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,926
Our community is not being shaped by the lootbox controversy... This thread, in a sense, is an example of the overreaction and hyperbole which concerns you, it just happens to be well-worded and lengthy. We can handle it. And if we can't, then we can't, pleading with people won't change anything unfortunately. We are not a hive mind and there is no "we" for us to "learn to let go".
 

Kosma

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
56
Maybe you missed “civil”

on gaf you would get banned for saying Turok was shit (it was) or saying that Witcher 3 doesnt need black people and it represents Polish culture and society

No one wants bigots and racists, but some relativism is needed
 

vider

Member
Oct 27, 2017
194
Slovenia
Fantastic post. I mean, I agree with your take on meltdowns. They're unavoidable unfortunately and I'm afraid that given how many AAA publishers seem to be changing their strategies in terms of maximizing revenue, we will see many more meltdowns here. That being said though, this forum is by far the most civil one out of all the gaming forums I've been a part of through the years.

As far as long OP's go, keep'em coming man. I've read many of your OP's on the old forum, because they're well thought out and not long for the sake of being long (your TLOU posts on GAF were fantastic to read through for example).
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,910
Why is posting on a forum a “lifestyle”?

Less rules and a more laxist moderation is exactly what we need if we want this place to turn into another 4chan with shitty memes where minorities are the butt of all the jokes.
We don't need a discussion about whether or not we think we allow marginalized groups should be allowed to live or not.
Lmao holy shit that’s 0-90 in like 1 second. That’s not what the other poster means, Jesus. Read.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,408
Brazil
I make a point of always being nice to people on the internet, not just here on ERA. I understand that people may hate things that I like and vice-versa, and that's okay, I don't think I have the right to attack people whose lives I don't know about. If they're being aggressive or bigots, the mods are here to take care of them, so there's no need for me to do anything but wait.

By the way, you guys are awesome people.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,639
Less rules and a more laxist moderation is exactly what we need if we want this place to turn into another 4chan with shitty memes where minorities are the butt of all the jokes.
We don't need a discussion about whether or not we think we allow marginalized groups should be allowed to live or not.
We know full well that won't happen with the top class mods that are currently here so I'm not sure why you are even saying this.
 

Nabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,576
Brilliant OP as always, my friend. Thanks for sharing your carefully constructed and immaculately written perspective. I will gladly do my best to use your musings as a guiding signpost for interactions on the forum.
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,149
The level of discourse here is on the same level as the old forum. With the good and the bad. I mean, I would like things to be better too but it seems to be on the course to be the same.

I appreciate the effort of the thread but I'm not that hopeful things will be better than before.
 

Llyrwenne

Hopes and Dreams SAVE the World
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,185
That was a good read. I agree that we should strive to make our community a better place and that we should avoid the toxicity that plagues so many other gaming communities (and which the old forum also wasn't free of). Thank you for taking the time to put this together. <3
Yeah we still see a lot of inflammatory thread titles and people dogpiling on well articulated dissenting opinions (as opposed to just drive by shitposting dissent). People get inflamed really easily and conversations escalate. I don't know how to make this better because oftentimes people so it without breaking any actual rules, just unnecessary escalation.
Agreed. The only thing I can think of that would directly deal with this is stricter moderation (not through bans, but through de-escalation), but I understand why that might be undesirable, impractical, or both.
 

UCBooties

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
2,167
Pennsylvania, USA
I alluded to this in another drama thread but unfortunately the internet always amplifies the most extreme viewpoint. Sometimes it seems that there is a no win decision between having a bad discussion about something important and having no discussion of it at all.

I do enjoy how relatively civil ERA has been so far and hope we can continue to be a welcoming place for good discussion. I appreciate the effort that went into the OP and I am glad to see FF has joined us here from the sunken place.
 

Chindogg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,453
East Lansing, MI
I think this place so far is fantastic and honestly I see no need for concern at all. It doesn't feel like the straight jacket the old place felt like where you were terrified to post sometimes. Battlefront 2 was a HUGE story and the only meltdown I saw was at EA. We were upset but hardly unhinged imo.
For the most part it's been great but the moe thread had some posters becoming very aggressive to other posters. I hope we can all take a step back and realize that differing opinions do not mean an affront to others' values.