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A song of ice and fire |OT| The never ending Autumn

Nov 2, 2017
547
I got to the Dance of Dragons part of Fire and Blood.

One of the coolest things about the world of Ice and Fire is the way dragons are treated which has sorta ruined the ways I see dragons in other media. In other fantasy you'll see a dragon and it's, like, whatever but in this world they're treated like how they should be seen, like fucking nukes. Which is why this whole section of the book is so sad because this will be the point where dragons start dying off in mass and which will bring use to the period where the current books are set, a dragonless world where magic is dying off.

You wanna slap reasons into all of these fools as they're dumb ass family drama kills off such amazing creatures.
Yeah I still haven't finished Fire and Blood for pretty much that reason. It's just so wistfully sad that near every dragon dies in this conflict that only begins because Viserys I was an idiot and Alicent one of the worst people ever. Reading through the book made me feel practically nostalgic for Jaehaerys' reign, with how peaceful and prosperous it was for the most part, and the dynasty and dragons growing in such number, then shortly after it all goes to shit.
 
Oct 29, 2017
443
Yeah I still haven't finished Fire and Blood for pretty much that reason. It's just so wistfully sad that near every dragon dies in this conflict that only begins because Viserys I was an idiot and Alicent one of the worst people ever. Reading through the book made me feel practically nostalgic for Jaehaerys' reign, with how peaceful and prosperous it was for the most part, and the dynasty and dragons growing in such number, then shortly after it all goes to shit.
While Viserys, the Hightowers, Daemon and Rhaenyra all made horrible choices, ultimately Jaehaerys himself is responsible. He should have listened to his wife and made Rhaenys the heir.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,956
Ha, I think I figured that the Night's King, Last Hero, Azor Ahai, Coldhands, and Brandon the Breaker are actually all the same person. I posted it on awoiaf forum but it's pending approval for whatever reason, maybe because I'm new there. I might post it here if they don't approve the topic.

Basically: last hero goes looking for the CotF with his 12 companions, they all die but him, his sword is broken, and the Others close in on him. He meets the "corpse bride" (the female Other), who woos him and probably saves his life, turning him into an Other, possibly even raised his fallen comrades. They go back together to the fort he ruled, now to be known as the Night's Fort, he the Night's King, and he creates the Night's Watch. They start to create more Others. But by day, he is "a man"' as old Nan said, so by day he looks for a way to BREAK the curse, and eventually figures out how: he stabs himself in the heart with dragonglass (become the man we know as Coldhands), regaining full control of himself. He then stabs his queen in the heart with a dragonsteel sword. It turns the sword into Light Bringer. He, Brandon the Breaker, broke the curse that had taken over his men, and now they hunt down the others, Joramun joins, and they win.

That's why Coldhands told Bran, who said he was a monster, "Your monster, Brandon Stark."
Coldhands' name was Brandon Stark, he was Azor Ahai, Brandon the Breaker, the Night's King, the Last Hero.
 
Last edited:
Nov 6, 2017
4,890
Los Angeles
Ha, I think I figured that the Night's King, Last Hero, Azor Ahai, Coldhands, and Brandon the Breaker are actually all the same person. I posted it on awoiaf forum but it's pending approval for whatever reason, maybe because I'm new there. I might post it here if they don't approve the topic.

Basically: last hero goes looking for the CotF with his 12 companions, they all die but him, his sword is broken, and the Others close in on him. He meets the "corpse bride" (the female Other), who woos him and probably saves his life, turning him into an Other, possibly even raised his fallen comrades. They go back together to the fort he ruled, now to be known as the Night's Fort, he the Night's King, and he creates the Night's Watch. They start to create more Others. But by day, he is "a man"' as old Nan said, so by day he looks for a way to BREAK the curse, and eventually figures out how: he stabs himself in the heart with dragonglass (become the man we know as Coldhands), regaining full control of himself. He then stabs his queen in the heart with a dragonsteel sword. It turns the sword into Light Bringer. He, Brandon the Breaker, broke the curse that had taken over his men, and now they hunt down the others, Joramun joins, and they win.

That's why Coldhands told Bran, who said he was a monster, "Your monster, Brandon Stark."
Coldhands' name was Brandon Stark, he was Azor Ahai, Brandon the Breaker, the Night's King, the Last Hero.
Well...it's not a new theory.

But I think you're looking to hard to fit things plot-wise when actually, they're just thematic parallels because history is cyclical.

Like the Night's King is just a mini-sequel to the Bloodstone Emperor of the Great Empire of the Dawn. They're basically the same story set on different continents at different time periods.

And AA is a messianic figure like the Last Hero. And AA may have been several different people.

And Lightbringer may not have even been a sword but a person or a dragon.

This stuff will get expanded on in the GOT prequel though and GRRM already said that the history we think we know may not even be true so the canonical status of all this may be thrown into the trash so the prequel can have a fresher state.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,956
Well...it's not a new theory.

But I think you're looking to hard to fit things plot-wise when actually, they're just thematic parallels because history is cyclical.

Like the Night's King is just a mini-sequel to the Bloodstone Emperor of the Great Empire of the Dawn. They're basically the same story set on different continents at different time periods.

And AA is a messianic figure like the Last Hero. And AA may have been several different people.

And Lightbringer may not have even been a sword but a person or a dragon.

This stuff will get expanded on in the GOT prequel though and GRRM already said that the history we think we know may not even be true so the canonical status of all this may be thrown into the trash so the prequel can have a fresher state.
Well you're not working from more information than I have to come to those conclusions, but mine actually relate to what's written, no offense:p

The Last Hero was looking for the CoTF with his 12 companions.
The Others close in on him, everyone else died, even his dog, his sword snapped from the cold.
????
The Last Hero has a sword that the Others can't withstand and he beats them.

Clearly, his broken sword would be no good against the Others, so he somehow obtains a sword no one had before to beat the Others. How? Sam says he supposedly had a Dragonsteel sword, and Jon wonders if Dragonsteel is Valyrian. The Children of the forest do not forge steel.

It seems there is zero reason to believe the Last Hero met the CotF, so how did he come out of this alive, and then somehow get an awesome sword to beat the Others?

Then, we have Old Nan who says the 13th lord command (12 companions + 1 = 13th) was the Night's King, and that he was "man by the light of day, but the night was his to rule", and that maybe his name was Brandon. If he is man by day, but NK by night, then the character would likely be in conflict with himself.

Where did the Night's King find the Corpse Bride? The Haunted Forest. Where was the Last Hero when he was "dying"?

Azor Ahai is seemingly really bent on forging an awesome sword, but we don't know why. Day-time 13th lord commander/Last Hero would have a pretty good reason: the sword he had was ineffective against the Others, he needs a better weapon, and why make a new sword that will break again against them? I don't have clues indicating that Coldhands stabbed himself in the heart with a dagger, but the show has a book with a page about dragonglass used as a cure, and since they sort of merged Benjen with Coldhands it's pretty likely it makes sense. The CotF say Coldhands died long ago, so he came back to life. Flaming heart, frozen fire, dragonglass in the heart, Azor Ahai's wife stabbed in the heart with Valyrian steel/Dragonglass?

This is an illustration for Brandon the Breaker killing the Night's Queen. Or is it Azor Ahai stabbing Nissa Nissa?

What did the Corpse Bride look like? "Skin as white as the moon, eyes like blue stars"
It says the face of the moon cracked due to Nissa Nissa's cry of anguish and ecstasy when Azor Ahai drove Lightbringer into her. Tears rolling down the face of the Corpse Bride? The "white" corpse bride no longer being "white", as in, the moon cracks because she is turned back from being a moon-white-skinned Other?

So Brandon the Breaker, breaks the curse over himself, kills or frees her, forging Light Bringer, and defeats the Others with Joramun.

Seems like a really strong case.

Also, wouldn't surprise me that GRRM made it that the Western myths are the original ones, the Eastern ones the derivative ones. A switch on our world.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
21,265
They're churning them out though, so that's not exactly saying much.
I think the most insane comparison is that almost the entire run of Game of Thrones, as a show, will have aired and released before Winds comes out.

Episode 1: April 17, 2011

A Dance with Dragons: July 12, 2011

Fuck, man. Goddamn.
 

RatskyWatsky

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,677
I think the most insane comparison is that almost the entire run of Game of Thrones, as a show, will have aired and released before Winds comes out.

Episode 1: April 17, 2011

A Dance with Dragons: July 12, 2011

Fuck, man. Goddamn.
That is huge, especially considering there was also a 1 year gap in between the last two seasons. 9 years in between novels - and counting! :O

(Ether_Snake time: GRRM will announce the release date for TWOW shortly after the series finale of GoT - maybe even immediately after the episode airs in a special filmed message on HBO)
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,956
That is huge, especially considering there was also a 1 year gap in between the last two seasons. 9 years in between novels - and counting! :O

(Ether_Snake time: GRRM will announce the release date for TWOW shortly after the series finale of GoT - maybe even immediately after the episode airs in a special filmed message on HBO)
No he won’t, but do I believe he tried to rewrite or will rewrite the story to keep it fresh? Likely, but probably not drastically. Who knows, maybe it will have been for the best and allow him to write something even better.
 
Apr 4, 2018
7,380
I cannot wait for the day the show ends so that all the people who’ve been going “oh GRRM is just waiting for the season(now series) finale for a surprise release date announcement” every year for the last 4 years will finally stop.
 
Apr 4, 2018
7,380
My favorite people are the crazies who are convinced that WoW has been done for a long time and GRRM has just been waiting for the show to end to release it.
 

Morrigan

Armoring
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
8,892
You think this man doesn't look up rule 34 of Dany and Jon?
If he does it's on a different PC. He does not write on the same computer as his personal PC. He mentioned this interviews before. His work computer is in a separate office (separate building even, IIRC), runs on ancient software, and is not connected to the Internet.

...I hope he has backup discs ;_;
 
OP
OP
louisacommie
Oct 25, 2017
10,563
New Jersey
How accurate do you think I am?
In the books got 10 plotlines locations
dany
Young griff
Dorne
Kings landing
The riverlands
The vale
The iron islands
The north
And the wall and beyond
And arya
Now 5 of those I think will converge

Young griff will kill cersia and tommonlen and defeat lannister rule of kings landing

Dorne will support

S ansa will marry him and little finger will become hand to think king after Jon conington dies.

Brienne will die in the river lands, to save Jaime, Jaime will return to kings landing, kill Cersei, then go to the wall and become the 1000th and final lord commander

Stannis beats the boltons will either die to the other or to dany

Dany will have 2 villians before the other, young griff and euron

No idea how arya will factor besides killing lady stone heart.