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A White Restaurateur Advertised ‘Clean’ Chinese Food. Chinese-Americans Had Something to Say About It.
- Thread starter Richiek
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If she did that, no one would have heard of this restaurant. Now there's a ton of articles about this place.
Read some of the reviews, sounds like the food sucks. Better luck next time!
The Munchies article on this topic is a good read, too:
https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/art...-clean-and-healthy-chinese-food-is-not-needed
Gotta love the part where Haspel claims that Chinese food is full of "globs of processed butter." Cause, you know, one thing Chinese cuisine is famous for is for its prodigious use of dairy...
I'd say it's a bit of both; there are definitely a number of dishes that were created or altered to cater to an American audience. There are some autobiographical accounts of early Chinese diaspora restaurateurs changing up their menus because they couldn't stay afloat without offering food more familiar to the tastes of white customers. With that said, you're right that other dishes were created out of adaptive necessity.
https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/art...-clean-and-healthy-chinese-food-is-not-needed
Gotta love the part where Haspel claims that Chinese food is full of "globs of processed butter." Cause, you know, one thing Chinese cuisine is famous for is for its prodigious use of dairy...
I'd say it's a bit of both; there are definitely a number of dishes that were created or altered to cater to an American audience. There are some autobiographical accounts of early Chinese diaspora restaurateurs changing up their menus because they couldn't stay afloat without offering food more familiar to the tastes of white customers. With that said, you're right that other dishes were created out of adaptive necessity.
Reminds me of this Mexican food restaurant that was opened in Philly called Illegal Tacos. Not at all surprising that it's owned by a white guy. He actually ended up changing the name after enough people called him out on the obvious issue but not before being real stubborn about it for a long time and making the typical excuses.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ph...ce-trump-protest-20180926.html?outputType=amp
The whole endeavour is just very much a 'by white people, for white people' deal
Damn, that owner is tone deaf. Clean Chinese food? Love the part where they mention brown sauces. You mean Soy Sauce? Wok In, Take Out. LOL.
They are several restaurants that already offer Gluten-free, organic and non-GMO ingredients in New York. She comes off as insensitive.
Should have made her restaurant taking other dishes from other cultures and just have it be Organic instead clean. At least you won't have the negative connotation.
They are several restaurants that already offer Gluten-free, organic and non-GMO ingredients in New York. She comes off as insensitive.
Including Chinese ones!
You don't need to lean into stereotypes to market "clean" American-Chinese food.
I didn't find it offensive at all as an ethnically Chinese person born in America. 3rd generation. 'Clean' seems like it is a buzz word for health food, like 'clean fuel.' I didn't associate it with insinuating Chinese Cuisine was inherently 'dirty.' Swelling and icky could just refer to use of gluten.
I dunno. I actually feel like this person should be lauded for trying to innovate Chinese cuisine and brand it as health conscious. I didn't realize 'lucky' was supposed to be an offensive term as an Asian-American.
I dunno. I actually feel like this person should be lauded for trying to innovate Chinese cuisine and brand it as health conscious. I didn't realize 'lucky' was supposed to be an offensive term as an Asian-American.
I'm a second gen Chinese and we should ALL be telling this racist asshole to get fucked instead of chan-ing it up.
I think you need to learn more about our history, my brother.
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Stir fried Napa cabbage with dried shrimp, our version of meatloaf, baby bak choy, braised pork belly with pickled veggies, bbq meats, congee, Chinese broccoli, salted fish, egg noodles in broth...lots of different stuff.
You could get that stuff at a traditional Chinese restaurant though.
That lo mein looks like shit with no flavor...kinda like potato salad.
My father has made the best food I've ever eaten and he learned how to cook in Hong Kong while working in restaurants at the age of 14 by watching what the cooks were doing.
That trash tier menu is a fucking insult and that place needs to be wiped from existence along with Gordon Ramsay's place. I can't put in words how deeply insulting that travesty is and how angry it makes me. Fuck those motherfuckers.
That trash tier menu is a fucking insult and that place needs to be wiped from existence along with Gordon Ramsay's place. I can't put in words how deeply insulting that travesty is and how angry it makes me. Fuck those motherfuckers.
Traditional Hong Kong lo mein has like a ladle of lard that comes from the pork they cook and BBQ in the kitchen poured on the noodles.
And it's friggin' delicious.
God, there's stuff in here I haven't seen in these other reports that are both completely obviously true and yet completely harrowing to actually see. Such as this appositive clause that stuck out at me:
It's like. Of course. Yep. Of fucking course. Fuck me. Obviously that's fucking true. Fuck's sake.
It is always appropriate for discourse on white privilege to have the exact same tone as Jeff Gerstmann at any given moment of a Mario Party Party stream
No one is missing the pun. Historically people make fun of first generation Chinese immigrants (and other Asians) for how they say English words. Especially how they struggle with the letter "L," which walk->wok definitely incorporates. So it's incredibly tone deaf at the very least, and I would say pretty offensive given the current political climate.
Does it even have miso in it lolRead the menu and see if anything sticks out
Nope. It's chicken stock made with chicken bones, but I bet it ain't the same soup you get with your meals at an actual Chinese restaurant with all the collagen...which makes the name even worse on top of not having any fermented bean paste in it! This shit is fucking potato salad.
This is textbook cultural appropriation with a racist twist.
I dunno, "wok in" seems like a pretty harmless pun for a Chinese food place and easy enough to think of without considering how it might sound coming from a native Chinese speaker. It's not like a soul food joint called "Axe me a question" or something straight up offensive. Hell, there is a vietnamese place called "Pho King" (and I'm sure it's not the only one) so spelling/ pronunciation puns seem par for the course.
And anyway, just how authentic are most dishes in an americanized Chinese place anyway? I've been to more than a few with two menus. Not sure a white chef making even more americanized versions of already americanized Asian cuisine merits a whole lot of comment, really.
The real issue to me is how she presents herself, regardless of what she is making. She kinda shits on the inspiration no matter the source, which doesnt inspire confidence.
You're absolutely wrong about the "wok in" thing and it's the same exact shit as "Axe me a question." It's as harmless as doing chink eyes, buck teeth, and a straw hat.
Did you know anything about cooking? Have you looked at that garbage they call a menu? It's all bland ass shit that they market by shitting on the very thing they're appropriating. It's the whole package that makes me want them to fail; not just a racist pun.
I understand how you feel, but that particular pun could arise without ever thinking about the Chinese pronunciation (combining it with "Lucky Lee" might be telling however).
As for the food, I think the standard "beef and brocoli" type Chinese menu as presented in America has become assimilated enough that someone could replicate/riff on it without really considering the source (kinda like how you can put anything into a taco now). That's good progress in a sense. But I agree with you on most of the rest of it. The restaurant as a whole is probably garbage but not every aspect is inherently bad.
holy shit lmao
That's some misinformation to put out by the restauranteur.
It comes from a place of racism. Your assertion that it could arise without even thinking about it only goes to prove that racism is reflexive and a integral part of our society.
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissing concerns surrounding racism and history of reinforcing stereotypes
I am aware of how the portrayal of MSG and it's supposed health risks was used to smear the reputation of Chinese food as it first became popular in the US. I don't think this person deliberately evoked an outmoded xenophobic tactic in opening her own NYC Chinese Restaurant.
I don't really feel offended by her efforts to bring the novelty of branding her Chinese food as health conscious. At the end of the day, if her food really is exquisite, she can make a splash and legitimately earn her place in a very competitive culinary market.
My worry is that we have much more legitimate and troubling issues to overcome in social representation, and I question if highlighting a innocuous if not thoughtlessly spoken resteraunteur as an oppressive target is really the best way to rally and organize for a meaningful purpose.
To me, the thing that sticks out is that she found an ethnic cuisine she is passionate about and inspired by to put her own spin on.
Her menu is potato salad garbage and there's nothing unintentional about her racism or the fact that her marketing hook is based entirely on shitting on Chinese restaurants.
If you think a white woman shitting on Chinese restaurant food to make money off of appropriating said food is innocuous, that's a real shitty attitude.
I'm really passionate about food too, but if I open a friend chicken joint called Sambo's and called a dish "Uncle Tom's Crabcakes" with blackface motifs, I'd say there's a pretty fucking legitimate reason for people to want to burn my place down.
These types of issues are ALL legitimate because it's ALL RACISM.
I was interested in the design of this place's menu from a nutrition standpoint. I was wondering if it was actually as interesting as she claims.
There are opportunities to substitute ingredients to refresh some traditional American Chinese dishes and make them legitimately more nutritious, like using stevia (which is a natural low calorie sweetener) or agave nectar (which has lower glycemic index) instead of traditional syrup and sugar. Or using almond or coconut flour instead of regular flour and corn starch. Or fry using avocado oil instead of corn oil. Or using a more complex grain than white rice. All of these substitute for healthier fats, less sugar/simple carbs, and more complex carbs. None of it is "authentic," but it is a legitimate way to rethink and increase the nutrition content of an American Chinese fried, syrupy entree.
But this menu instead claims: "This entire menu is gluten-free, dairy-free, wheat-free, corn-free, peanut cashew & pistachio-free. Ingredients may be made in facilities that processes gluten, dairy, wheat, nuts. We use non-GMO oil & never refined sugar, MSG or food coloring."
None of that is inherently healthy. Which just confirms to me this owner doesn't know anything about nutrition nor care about making anything healthy, she just wants to put her own granola vegan Whole Foods uppity white people spin on American Chinese food. And in the wake of her doing so, she didn't avoid shitting on the food genre with abstract, meaningless, offensive terms like "clean eating."
There are opportunities to substitute ingredients to refresh some traditional American Chinese dishes and make them legitimately more nutritious, like using stevia (which is a natural low calorie sweetener) or agave nectar (which has lower glycemic index) instead of traditional syrup and sugar. Or using almond or coconut flour instead of regular flour and corn starch. Or fry using avocado oil instead of corn oil. Or using a more complex grain than white rice. All of these substitute for healthier fats, less sugar/simple carbs, and more complex carbs. None of it is "authentic," but it is a legitimate way to rethink and increase the nutrition content of an American Chinese fried, syrupy entree.
But this menu instead claims: "This entire menu is gluten-free, dairy-free, wheat-free, corn-free, peanut cashew & pistachio-free. Ingredients may be made in facilities that processes gluten, dairy, wheat, nuts. We use non-GMO oil & never refined sugar, MSG or food coloring."
None of that is inherently healthy. Which just confirms to me this owner doesn't know anything about nutrition nor care about making anything healthy, she just wants to put her own granola vegan Whole Foods uppity white people spin on American Chinese food. And in the wake of her doing so, she didn't avoid shitting on the food genre with abstract, meaningless, offensive terms like "clean eating."
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What's great is I bet a lot of white people will ducking hate it
The distressing thing is there's so many things wrong I don't even know what you're referring to. This is like the menu of a Chinese restaurant from The Good Place designed to torture people.Read the menu and see if anything sticks out
She likely thinks she knows her Chinese food and would call you an elitist if you told her otherwise. Many Era members behave similarly :P
Sounds like she is horrible at marketing and doesn't know how to velvet her shitty meat.
I hope Lee's lucky enough to float/sunset that place without it ruining them.
I hope Lee's lucky enough to float/sunset that place without it ruining them.
Because a wok is used in the cooking.
Just like "Skillet and grill it" or something like that. The "wok" for "walk" switch works because it sounds close enough in English and refers to the pot specific to that style of cooking. That it also sounds like "engrish" is unfortunate and certainly enough to merit abandoning the catch phrase once it is brought up. But just creating the phrase isnt inherently racist as a group of native English speakers without much contact with native Chinese speakers may not even be aware of how the latter might pronounce "walk" and just think it is clever word play (like the "Pho King" example I brought up earlier).
But anyway, the point isnt worth debating as the wok thing, in context with the rest of the story, seems bad and not up to defense.
The point is worth discussing when you're conflating white people being racist with Asians re-appropriating their own shit. Those pho restaurants are owed primarily by Vietnamese other Asians, whereas white people have no fucking excuse to play up puns that belong in Breakfast at Tiffany's.
Why are you so invested in minimizing this and what authority do you have to tell Asians that this is meaningless?
I'm not minimizing anything. But of all the red flags in this story IMHO the "wok in, take out" part is the LEAST effective example to use to illustrate the entire story as a problematic cultural appropriate example. It can be easily demonstrated to be a pun relevant to the cooking style and there are many other examples of similar word play. But the menu names, the restaurant name, the comments by the owner, those ARE problematic and folks should focus on those instead.
So if someone opens a fish place and has a sign that says, "Wait just a cod n' picking moment," it's also okay? After all, it's related to the business, right?
Or is your argument actually that it's not offensive because you don't find it offensive? Because, spoiler, I don't find it offensive either. That doesn't mean I get to speak for others.
Effective to to who? People that aren't sympathetic to begin with that twist themselves into pretzels to explain why it isn't racist after ACTUAL CHINESE PEOPLE have said that it is?
Yes. I know it is derogatory. You know it. Folks in this forum know it. But I'd bet the average American would think "that's not so bad" if you lead the discussion with "wok in, take out". That phrase can be created out of ignorance, not racism. The context is important in understanding why it can be offensive because there are other examples of similar phrasing, at least on a superficial level, that dont cone across as racist. So start with the "this is Chinese food that doesn't make you feel sick" comments, or the name, or the menu items.
I think that would be a more effective introduction to the discussion in explaining why this entire concept is problematic and not only should be shut down, but serves as an example of how NOT to serve a cultural product if you are not born into that culture.
But I understand this is offensive to you and I dont want to make you upset. I've said my piece and I'll bow out.
I don't know why you think it just happened out of ignorance. I'm an Asian-American out in the boonies of America, and I've heard people make fun of Asian accents in precisely that manner. There's about a zero percent chance an east coast person is unaware of things like this. It was done out malice and appropriation. Stop with the concern trolling.
So my Asian American friends are upset about the restaurant ,but my mainland Chinese friends say it's not a big deal as long as it doesn't taste like shit
Idk I'm a billion times more offended by Panda Express existing.
The names of all of her stuff are really bad though , She definitely didn't make those names out of ignorance.
However the concept of "healthy" Chinese food is fine. They have "healthy" restaurants for all types of cuisines. She just did everything wrong.
Idk I'm a billion times more offended by Panda Express existing.
The names of all of her stuff are really bad though , She definitely didn't make those names out of ignorance.
However the concept of "healthy" Chinese food is fine. They have "healthy" restaurants for all types of cuisines. She just did everything wrong.
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I'd be alright if they didn't call themselves Chinese food haha