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Apo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
401
What if Microsofts will not achieve their goals with their gaming division? That doesn't mean that they will not be successful in terms of revenue. Maybe they just will not be successful enough in the eyes of their stakeholders. Would this result in multiple thousand layoffs like we saw after the Nokia acquisition?
 
Sep 14, 2018
4,625
"If you think about a game like Hellblade, how many big companies would have greenlit a game like that?
Um, surely not Microsoft circa 2013/2014 when it was greenlit?

Don't they have a reputation for executive meddling, like that time they kept Heavy Rain out of xbox because they wanted changes made to the plot?

And that other time they caused a small dev who was working in the Phantom Dust reboot to close their doors when they cancelled the game because they were unable to keep up with the feature creep they kept demaning while not increasing their budget?

Anyway I don't really keep up with Microsoft, but I hope this all works out for them and their devs.
 

Kenjovani

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,158
Follow the competitors positive moves to a T and it will definitely work out (this goes both ways).Competition is great. The Microsoft we saw at the Xbox One unveiling is a totally different gaming platform than what we have today.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
What if Microsofts will not achieve their goals with their gaming division? That doesn't mean that they will not be successful in terms of revenue. Maybe they just will not be successful enough in the eyes of their stakeholders. Would this result in multiple thousand layoffs like we saw after the Nokia acquisition?

That's business, sadly enough. So better buy their games! ;)
 

Lich

Alt-Account
Member
Sep 24, 2018
89
We all have to admit, apart from a few exclusive, MS Studios have been pretty good on the performance side of game development. PG, The Co, 343 (later in the generation), Rare and T10 have put out some great performance hungry games.
 

Akai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,045
Um, surely not Microsoft circa 2013/2014 when it was greenlit?

But that's kinda the point, isn't it? They did that in the past and now they are saying that they are "allowing them to operate independently". Obviously, there always is some form of meddling, but it would be really stupid of them to not let these studios, which have released some great titles in the past, come up with some of their own ideas.
 

DocSeuss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,784
What if Microsofts will not achieve their goals with their gaming division? That doesn't mean that they will not be successful in terms of revenue. Maybe they just will not be successful enough in the eyes of their stakeholders. Would this result in multiple thousand layoffs like we saw after the Nokia acquisition?

Unlikely. They're in it for the long haul.
 

Deleted member 9584

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,132
What if Microsofts will not achieve their goals with their gaming division? That doesn't mean that they will not be successful in terms of revenue. Maybe they just will not be successful enough in the eyes of their stakeholders. Would this result in multiple thousand layoffs like we saw after the Nokia acquisition?
Xbox has been pretty profitable this gen correct? Even with half (or a little more, who knows?) the console sales, they have still be turning quite the profit. If this is considered a bad cycle for them, then I can't see things souring next gen to the point where the start axeing these studios.
 

Liliana

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,375
NYC
Threads off to a great start as per usual, lol. That guy had it coming for a long time now.

Let's see if said studio's project don't get cancelled due to Microsoft's internal fighting bs.

What are you talking about?

What if Microsofts will not achieve their goals with their gaming division? That doesn't mean that they will not be successful in terms of revenue. Maybe they just will not be successful enough in the eyes of their stakeholders. Would this result in multiple thousand layoffs like we saw after the Nokia acquisition?

Some of you still don't understand that Xbox isn't going away; quite the opposite, in fact. Multiple thousands of layoffs...lol.
 

Wulfer

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
520
It appears their off to a good start by securing one of the greatest racing franchises of all time as an exclusive. MS is probably thinking "that's one down". The numbers clearly show MS is the leader in racing right now. No fanboy logic needed for those facts.
 

Deleted member 9584

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,132
It appears their off to a good start by securing one of the greatest racing franchises of all time as an exclusive. MS is probably thinking "that's one down". The numbers clearly show MS is the leader in racing right now. No fanboy logic needed for those facts.
Wasn't Forza already exclusive and owned by Microsoft? Weren't they just "licensing" out the IP to Playground who made Forza Horizon?
 
Feb 26, 2018
2,753
Xbox has been pretty profitable this gen correct? Even with half (or a little more, who knows?) the console sales, they have still be turning quite the profit. If this is considered a bad cycle for them, then I can't see things souring next gen to the point where the start axeing these studios.

They don't disclose actual operating profit if I remember correctly
 

Kasey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
10,822
Boise
Um, surely not Microsoft circa 2013/2014 when it was greenlit?

Don't they have a reputation for executive meddling, like that time they kept Heavy Rain out of xbox because they wanted changes made to the plot?

And that other time they caused a small dev who was working in the Phantom Dust reboot to close their doors when they cancelled the game because they were unable to keep up with the feature creep they kept demaning while not increasing their budget?

Anyway I don't really keep up with Microsoft, but I hope this all works out for them and their devs.
They didn't "keep the game off Xbox", they chose not to fund it, which is fine by me considering Heavy Rain is an awful game with an awful story.

And Microsoft wasn't demanding feature creep with PD, they just wanted a SP campaign, and the studio they chose was a poor fit for the IP. Still sad they closed tho.
 

OmegaDL50

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,690
Philadelphia, PA
Wasn't Forza already exclusive and owned by Microsoft? Weren't they just "licensing" out the IP to Playground who made Forza Horizon?

This is correct. Turn10 who develops the mainline Forza Motorsport series has always been a Microsoft owned studio since even the original Forza Motorsport 1 on the old Xbox. It's just with the recent acquisition of Playground Games, now Microsoft has both studios in their pocket.
 

Segafreak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,756
Like Uncharted 1-4? Like Last of Us 1-2? Like Infamous 1-3? Like Killzone 1-4? Like God of War 1-4?

I could keep going but what's the point?
Let's not act like Sony and MS are alike when it comes to taking risks with big new IP. If you keep going you'll probably list all the new IP they've started this and last gen since LittleBigPlanet. And although in the same franchise inFamous3, UC4 and GoW4 are radically different than their predecessors. Literally the only reason Bungie left MS is because they didn't wanna keep making Halo into perpetuity, and why people keep criticizing MS for having only Halo/Gears/Forza and what the poster you quoted alluded to. If they're gonna have the same Sony Style "hands off" approach on their studios now, that's only positive news.


Um, surely not Microsoft circa 2013/2014 when it was greenlit?

Don't they have a reputation for executive meddling, like that time they kept Heavy Rain out of xbox because they wanted changes made to the plot?

And that other time they caused a small dev who was working in the Phantom Dust reboot to close their doors when they cancelled the game because they were unable to keep up with the feature creep they kept demaning while not increasing their budget?

Anyway I don't really keep up with Microsoft, but I hope this all works out for them and their devs.

There are many more stories like this: Rare after the acquisition (MS suits constantly interfering with them), or more recently the reasons behind the Scalebound cancellation...
 
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Drek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,231
Like Uncharted 1-4? Like Last of Us 1-2? Like Infamous 1-3? Like Killzone 1-4? Like God of War 1-4?

I could keep going but what's the point?
Why does The Last of Us exist? Where did Horizon come from? I seem to recall Sony Santa Monica collaborating on over a dozen other games in the last two generations alone that weren't God of War, and Sony dumping a high eight/low nine figure sum into a new IP project that failed prior to returning to God of War.

In all those cases Sony let studios expend resources outside of their flagship franchises. When faced with the same decision MS let Bungie walk rather than stop being a Halo factory.

Microsoft also spent the middle part of last generation closing internal studios and pushing most of the ones still open into making Kinect games.

They were then incredibly slow to change this generation even as that failure was being reported by every media outlet there is.

The histories here aren't remotely comparable. Sony has walked the walk on letting studios pitch a variety of projects and being open to green lighting something new. MS has said this before with different PR personalities attached and it has not yet once come to fruition.

Their five new studios are:
The Initiative - a new start up clearly intended to draw away talent from other Santa Monica based studios, headed by David Gallagher , formerly of CD. If they reveal a game in the next 2 years that'll be a mild surprise and are likely 3+ from releasing anything. Why wasn't something like this done any time prior in the past 5 years? Will they get something out or will this turn into another Black Tusk/Coalition scenario where MS shutters something new early to stick them on another IP (who even knows what)?

Undead Labs - were already making exclusive content for Microsoft. If MS thinks State of Decay 2, a game I personally enjoy, is a corollary to what Netflix is doing on the TV/movies side or what Sony is doing in the first party game development side they're sadly mistaken as to where this industry is at today. Again, I like SoD2, but that's because I don't mind quite a bit of jank in my games. SoD2 even tests my patience. It is one of the most janky, glitch riddled games to come out of a major publisher this generation. If this is supposed to be a flagship acquisition both sides of the partnership need to step their game up pretty massively to deliver something more palatable to the average gamer.

Playground Games - again already an exclusive partner. They're trying to grow them into a multiple project studio. That is far from a guarantee of success.

Ninja Theory - the first real acquisition that might actually grow their first party offerings in the near term, but Ninja Theory isn't exactly the most productive developer of all time. They're a one project every three years studio, and just put out Hellblade. So 2020?

Compulsion Games - Young studio who have put out Contrast (2013) and We Happy Few (2018). There should be meaningful concerns about both reliability and productivity here. If it takes them another 5 years that's 2023 until we'll see anything, and I don't think anyone would be pleased with something comparable to We Happy Few as the product of this relationship.

In short this push was them formally acquiring already existing partners, starting a new studio, buying another (Compulsion) who will effectively need a similar level of expansion to get to where a first party studio should be, and Ninja Theory. I'm generally a fan of Ninja Theory so that's cool to me, but then they could have contracted Ninja Theory as far back as 2013 if they wanted to, it isn't like NT wasn't looking for work.

Microsoft has spent the last ~3-4 years talking about their renewed commitment to first party software, yet this E3 was the first semi-tangible news on that front and it's basically them bragging about getting to the starting line.

Meanwhile Sony and Nintendo have lapped them and are coming around again.

To make matters worse it feels like even their recent releases are just tone deaf as to where gaming is at right now. They spent literally years hyping Sea of Thieves and it releases as barren as a beta. State of Decay 2 is as janky as the first. Crackdown 3 is dematerializing into vaporware before our eyes. They've even had to run a PR and rebuild campaign for The Master Chief Collection. How do you fuck up an up-port of the most iconic game your company even has, and then take years to make meaningful progress on fixing it?

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here as these are the same issues they've had for years. I really like what MS is trying to do with Game Pass. That's pretty cool as a concept, but they've got to be able to feed it. So far it looks like the only reason they're into the Game Pass first party titles day one concept is because their first party titles aren't bankable enough to where a $10/month sub attracting people out of curiosity who bounce straight off is more viable than asking $60 for these experiences individually.

That and you can't be the Netflix of video games with their trash tier UI. Clean that mess up.
 

Wulfer

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
520
Wasn't Forza already exclusive and owned by Microsoft? Weren't they just "licensing" out the IP to Playground who made Forza Horizon?


This is true but, their were rumors that Playground were looking to go 3rd party. Talk about hurting MS this would have seriously hurt their games. How about if Playground had made a racing title for Sony, Nintendo or multiplatfrom? Yes MS owns Froza but, take Playground away and MS would have been starting from scratch again.
 
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Psamtik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,874
Playground has quietly become one of the best and most reliable studios in the industry, so they're doing pretty well there.

Ninja Theory has a history of remarkable technical proficiency, especially when considering their small team and limited budget. Look at Hellblade, then imagine what they might do with a AAA budget, and the potential's easy to see.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,736
Tokyo
Im going to be cautiously optimistic with this until I start seeing what they put out. Hopefully it will create more competition with Sony as well.
 

BitterFig

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,099
The thing is Netflix does not release blockbusters on day one.

I really wonder how it will work financially for them by putting the next Halo on gamepass.

That being said, I'm glad there is a new model to encourage AA production. Perhaps even allow more risks to be taken.
 

Kage Maru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,804
Hopefully they do give these studios the freedom and resources to do their best. The people at these studios aren't stupid, so you'd think they wouldn't agree to the acquisition if there were clear signs of concern.

Um, surely not Microsoft circa 2013/2014 when it was greenlit?

Don't they have a reputation for executive meddling, like that time they kept Heavy Rain out of xbox because they wanted changes made to the plot?

And that other time they caused a small dev who was working in the Phantom Dust reboot to close their doors when they cancelled the game because they were unable to keep up with the feature creep they kept demaning while not increasing their budget?

Anyway I don't really keep up with Microsoft, but I hope this all works out for them and their devs.

Can we stop looking at these companies as people or single entities? None of the 3 major players are the same as they were 5 years ago. Pointing out decisions made by people who no longer run these departments is pointless. All we can do is judge them on what they are doing today and hope it works out for the creators and gamers.
 

Katana_Strikes

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 29, 2017
10,752
Playground has quietly become one of the best and most reliable studios in the industry, so they're doing pretty well there.

Ninja Theory has a history of remarkable technical proficiency, especially when considering their small team and limited budget. Look at Hellblade, then imagine what they might do with a AAA budget, and the potential's easy to see.
NT have done AAA games before. They never really seem to quite hit those high notes. We'll see what they can do at MS but I'm not completely hopeful. Playground beyond racing/Horizon are an unknown quantity but certainly have everything to prove outside of that.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,421
That doesn't mean Microsoft won't close any of their studios if their games don't perform as expected. They've closed plenty of studios already.

Any company can close any owned studio that doesnt perform as expected. Singling out microsoft every time for it is tiresome. Specially when people keep using the Microsoft of myerson and ballmer as reference
 

keidash

Member
Jan 31, 2018
287
Can I have any hopes in Remedy as a Microsoft first-party studio? They could launch Control in every console anyway, but I want Alan Wake 2 in my life and I see more possibilities if Remedy becomes first party. (Control looks awesome anyway and I want it too).
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,518
Chicagoland
From Opening The Xbox: Inside Microsoft's Plan to Unleash an Entertainment Revolution

3aDodLL.jpg


https://archive.org/details/openingxboxinsid00taka

Keep in mind, this is about the late 1999 to early 2001 time period.
 

Lurcharound

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,068
UK
They're doing the right thing but this is typical Greenberg PR hyperbole "greatest ever". Sounds too close to Trump these days so it grates on me - and no doubt others - and gets the negative response some are showing. They've bought some decent studios - none of them have a track record that should have anyone leaping to claim makes them "the world's greatest" though.

I get its his job, but excessive marketing PR I now see as an issue with US culture and politics and I'm just not up for it anywhere even for something as essentially harmless as a video game console. They should tone it down as just note they've bought some solid studios and will be aiming to produce good, compelling content without reaching for the Madison Avenue hyperbole handbook and acting as if they've just acquired the development teams behind GTA, CoD, Zelda, Mario, TLOU, Battlefield and more in one fell swoop.

MS PR for Xbox is starting to sound like the warrior rousing tone of last gen and I'd rather it didn't.
 

LifeLine

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,779
Like Uncharted 1-4? Like Last of Us 1-2? Like Infamous 1-3? Like Killzone 1-4? Like God of War 1-4?

I could keep going but what's the point?

The Last of Us was like Microsoft letting Bungie drop Halo, their most popular franchise, to work on a new IP.

Every studio you listed, except GoW, have dropped their established IPs to work on something entirely new.
 

Ehoavash

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,238
I hope that all of these studios game vastly differ from each other.

Like sure have playground do the open world rpg, ninja theory handle the story driven drama or what ever you want to call it etc hell they should get a marvel license too. Give iron Man to one of their teams :3
 

Akai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,045
Can I have any hopes in Remedy as a Microsoft first-party studio? They could launch Control in every console anyway, but I want Alan Wake 2 in my life and I see more possibilities if Remedy becomes first party. (Control looks awesome anyway and I want it too).

Why do you need Microsoft to acquire Remedy for this to happen?
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,421
They've bought some decent studios - none of them have a track record that should have anyone leaping to claim makes them "the world's greatest" though.

Are we still doing that "racing games are not real games" thing to discredit Playground then?

Your fixation in equalling this to Trump's PR is also disturbing
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,111
That doesn't mean Microsoft won't close any of their studios if their games don't perform as expected. They've closed plenty of studios already.

Them acquiring and building new studios is a signal that the current leadership is not going to back down at the first sign of failure. If that was their intention, they would have continued their much lower risk strategy of securing timed or full exclusivity deals from independent developers or large publishers, and to increase output they would have just hired all these companies again, not bought them. Purchasing them outright is a lot more trouble, more money, and more risk.

The older strategy allowed them to effortlessly ramp down their production circa ~2014 by simply not making new deals or continuing relationships, hence 2016 through 2018 were quite dry comparatively.

A new leadership change could once again set them on a different course, but Nadella has given approval to Phil et al to take this more risky and expensive approach.
 

daybreak

Member
Feb 28, 2018
2,415
Lots of people here are forgetting that Microsoft is a world-class game publisher and incredibly well-run company. Giving these studios a certain amount of freedom to operate independently, but also affording them the direction and management that Microsoft can provide is a huge bonus for them. Tie in marketing, partnerships, and open communication between other Microsoft-owned companies and you have an incredible business opportunity for these developers. In lots of cases, giving these opportunities to smaller companies is what propels them from being a middle-of-the-road business to a top-tier one. Acquiring plenty of what many would consider "middling" developers in the industry and developing them is a great move.

These are exciting times for Microsoft, which in turn means exciting times for people who like video games. I'm jealously eyeing the XB0 and its backwards compatibility while my PS4 gathers dust between large titles, and very much looking forward to what Microsoft has in store for their next console - Sony needs to step up their hardware and backwards compatibility if they want to keep me around next generation.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,993
Texas
Let's see if they actually let these studios produce this time. We've heard about their commitment to games before, we've seen them open studios. Their output is still abysmal.

Maybe this time it will be different. I really hope so. But this PR isn't going to convince me.
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
That doesn't mean Microsoft won't close any of their studios if their games don't perform as expected. They've closed plenty of studios already.
They won't be the only ones doing that cos its the norm in the industry...Sony, EA, Activision etc have all closed down a number of underperforming studios too.

Lots of people here are forgetting that Microsoft is a world-class game publisher and incredibly well-run company. Giving these studios a certain amount of freedom to operate independently, but also affording them the direction and management that Microsoft can provide is a huge bonus for them. Tie in marketing, partnerships, and open communication between other Microsoft-owned companies and you have an incredible business opportunity for these developers. In lots of cases, giving these opportunities to smaller companies is what propels them from being a middle-of-the-road business to a top-tier one. Acquiring plenty of what many would consider "middling" developers in the industry and developing them is a great move.

These are exciting times for Microsoft, which in turn means exciting times for people who like video games. I'm jealously eyeing the XB0 and its backwards compatibility while my PS4 gathers dust between large titles, and very much looking forward to what Microsoft has in store for their next console - Sony needs to step up their hardware and backwards compatibility if they want to keep me around next generation.
They've done a great job so far. Next-gen will be amazing.

Them acquiring and building new studios is a signal that the current leadership is not going to back down at the first sign of failure. If that was their intention, they would have continued their much lower risk strategy of securing timed or full exclusivity deals from independent developers or large publishers, and to increase output they would have just hired all these companies again, not bought them. Purchasing them outright is a lot more trouble, more money, and more risk.

The older strategy allowed them to effortlessly ramp down their production circa ~2014 by simply not making new deals or continuing relationships, hence 2016 through 2018 were quite dry comparatively.

A new leadership change could once again set them on a different course, but Nadella has given approval to Phil et al to take this more risky and expensive approach.
Well said.
 
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Deleted member 15311

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,088
That doesn't mean Microsoft won't close any of their studios if their games don't perform as expected. They've closed plenty of studios already.
I'm thinking of a good reason, why people insist on atributting that kind of attitude only to them and i honestly couldn't find one. I prefer the way they do stuff, just develop this for us and then you can go your way, even without keeping the IP, like in Alan Wake.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
The Last of Us was like Microsoft letting Bungie drop Halo, their most popular franchise, to work on a new IP.

Every studio you listed, except GoW, have dropped their established IPs to work on something entirely new.

Even in he case of SSM and GoW, Sony pumped a bucketload of money into their Destiny-like project before canning it because it didn't work out. At that stage it made sense to return to a known quantity in order to restore exec's faith in the studio's ability to deliver on quality projects.... (and oh did SSM deliver, lol)
 

Deleted member 47654

user requested account closure
Banned
Sep 10, 2018
2,612
Guys, do you know what "Fastidioso" means?
Is an spanish word that means "Annoying"
So, make your own conclusions
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
NT have done AAA games before. They never really seem to quite hit those high notes. We'll see what they can do at MS but I'm not completely hopeful. Playground beyond racing/Horizon are an unknown quantity but certainly have everything to prove outside of that.
It seems you are downplaying the racing genre at this point. PG Games doesn't need to prove they are a world-class dev with top class talent cos they already are. They have consistently made the best racers this gen. It's like downplaying NDs talent cos they have proven themselves to be great at making third-person cinematic action adventure games.
 

Freddo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,639
Småland, Sweden
Meh, they killed several other studios in the past few years. "Free to do whatever they want" indeed, sigh. How about a Fable 4 from Lionhead? Yeah, not possible.
 

Badcoo

Member
May 9, 2018
1,607
If anyone has learned anything from sony bending to the fortnite cross play - competition is good!! And in the end, more games for all of us to play.

It is sad that it took MS falling behind and this long to actually understand that.