According to Jason Schreier, making Anthem was Bioware idea; EA actually gives the studios autonomy and more

Oct 25, 2017
12,323
This.

The thread title doesn't reflect Jason's tweets... like... at all.

"a lot of autonomy" is not the same as EA giving devs "autonomy".

Also, "Executive pressure is more subtle than "Make this game!" - it's resource maneuvering and "Where's your version of FIFA Ultimate Team?" is such a laughable defence for EA. I mean, they're funding the game and like we saw with what they did with Visceral, they will resource starve the shit out of your game if they can't see how it isn't going to be a lootbox/MT riddled mess AKA FIFA Ultimate Team. They're basically saying, "make what we want you to make or you'll get the smallest budget possible to complete your project"... how is that autonomy?
Well said.

There's clearly issues with Bioware as a studio since some of the older leads/management and devs left, but the speed at which many on Era go to "Now we have the gotcha for if Bioware get closed, papa EA did no wrong!" is... unsurprising I guess *shrug*.

Just forget about all the Star Wars drama.
 
Oct 29, 2017
624
For the company own sake, I think that's Bioware's management that should take responsability for the whole farce. It won't happen though and it's the low-level employees that get screwed, like always.

Bioware choosing to make a genre they clearly had no idea about and while having no good ideas for the genre seems pretty weird.
I'm not particulary fond of EA but yeah, trying to blame them for 'not giving enough ressources for QA to Anthem' or for 'forcing Bioware to do their own MMO shooting' is embarrassing at this point.

Like in the old folk tales, the devil is more clever than that and try to ensnare you through your own free will ;p
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,135
There is a vast difference between asking for GAAS and going full blown online only Destiny shlooter. ME3 was a GAAS game, they could've done something like that again that, there was no requirement for Anthem to be the type of game it is besides Bioware wanting it to. Assassins Creed are GAAS games now and again they go all in on the single player experience and are ironically more old BW esque games than BW is now.

So yes there is a world of nuance here between EA holding a gun, saying make us Destiny and just requiring some level of constant DLC.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,386
Is there a huge difference there?

I wouldn't say so. The outcome is the same.
The difference is that is places the blame for HOW Anthem falls short precisely on BioWare's shoulders. Live service loot shooters exist. They can be good. They can be profitable. BioWare simply failed to make one that is either.
 
Oct 27, 2017
791
Wow!!!!!! I can't believe it takes a fucking reporter to say what's been said by Bioware for months!!!!

It's almost as if working at EA isn't some flesh pit fuckhouse like you maggot mouths suggest!!!
I kind of want to work at a flesh pit fuckhouse. At least for a little while. Sounds pretty wild!
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,976
Anyway, if you're going to start making a game, have good ideas for the game.

Anthem's list of ideas ends at "Jetpacks + Guns?" and it has nothing else.

Jason said that Anthem spent years in pre-production and if Bioware really just failed to come up with any ideas in those years, they just shouldn't have started making it in full.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,679
I don't know how some here are reading these tweets but it's clear that EA asks for what they want they are just subtle lol as subtle as a hammer on the head judging by Schreier's examples. That said Anthem is so confounding in it's terrible design choices there is no way EA is on the hook for that.

At the end of the day if it took 6+ years and this is the game they have to show, then both are to blame.
 
The thing is, theres PLENTY to hate on EA for. But stuff like a shitty loot system? Subpar weapon combat? How the fuck is that on EA? Oh they rushed the game? 7 year dev time is somehow rushed? Millions of dollars over that time not enough resources? Like its clear when EA stepts in with shitty monetization-but THIS? It never made sense to blame them and watching people still try to make this about EA is fucking crazy town. They need to get a grip and realize EA isn't at fault for all the world's problems.
Yeah, people just think of it in a binary of everything that is good? That's Bioware. And everything that's bad is of course the evil EA conglomerate who *hate* video games and are looking for any excuse to kill Bioware

EA is far from perfect and I have a lot of issues with them, but the discourse around Anthem specifically has been tiring and stupid
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,898
Why does it always seem like someone speaks up for the developers and everything was always their idea?

It was probably like this:

EA: "It would be a shame if a certain studio would have to close.. What we really need are these live service types of games, lots of microtransactions..."
Bioware: "*sigh* ... we have an idea for the live service game you demanded"
EA: "Congratulations, you may live... until the next time....."
Who to believe, one of the most respected journalists in the industry or

random internet poster creating some weird hypothetical backed up by nothing?

HMMMMM

Like come on are ya'll serious right now?

Yeah, people just think of it in a binary of everything that is good? That's Bioware. And everything that's bad is of course the evil EA conglomerate who *hate* video games and are looking for any excuse to kill Bioware

EA is far from perfect and I have a lot of issues with them, but the discourse around Anthem specifically has been tiring and stupid
Of course! No way should I be standing up for EA cause EA is responsible for their own share of shit. But THIS? Come on people, its clear as day EA wasn't coming in telling them to make a shitty non existent loot table or make enemy scaling work in reverse.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,307
Not America
Is this why the only aspect of the game that has been bereft of any noteworthy issue thus far is its MTX system (from the reviews I have seen) which also has in game NPC extolling the virtues of being said system by appealing to the player's sense of identity and exceptionalism?
 
I wouldnt be surprised if it was partially rebooted at some point to add more support for mtx but even as a GaaS game it currently seems like a failure at this point. There just doesnt seem to be much on the store worth buying.
Well, the previous lead director died before he's replaced with the current one, so yes it wouldn't be surprising if the game was at some point got rebooted or something similar to that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,803
I remember Jason saying this several times by now. Maybe it's time to believe him and not pin everything on EA?
Ummmm this type of thing is hardly subtle and has massive implications on project design, EA didn’t outright say ‘make anthem’ they said ‘it sure would be a shame if your studio had no title like the ones makin millions for other publishers, wouldn’t you agree?’
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,898
Ummmm this type of thing is hardly subtle and has massive implications on project design, EA didn’t outright say ‘make anthem’ they said ‘it sure would be a shame if your studio had no title like the ones makin millions for other publishers, wouldn’t you agree?’
Holy fuck you are delusional.

Bioware-"This is the game weve wanted to make for years, our dream project"

Jason- "Bioware was given a lot of autonomy with what their project would be"

Rando internet person- "Yeah but don't you agree EA coerced them into making this?"
 
Sep 16, 2018
1,969
I like Schreier is kind of splitting hairs a bit there. It's still EA pressuring a dev to make a game with long revenue tail when said dev's history is mostly in one and done RPGs that got some expansion DLC sometimes. That said, Bioware had talked about this game for years, so I'm sure they did want to try something new. They may just have not cared about making it an endless looter shooter with MTs vs. originally wanting something more like a shared world Mass Effect type game that was something more akin to Borderlands 1 and 2. i.e. still very story focused with most people just playing through the story mode, side quests and story dlc and just some tough end game bosses for people who want more. And no MTs.

In any case, we'll probably never no the details. Just like we'll never know how many of Destiny 1 and 2's shortcomings, bad launch states etc. were Bungie's fault and how much was Activisions in terms of pressure to release at a certain time, adding MTs etc.
 
Dec 6, 2017
1,984
Forum title:
According to Jason Schreier, making Anthem was Bioware idea; EA actually gives the studios autonomy and more

Actual Tweets:
"it's EA saying "if you want resources, show us how your game is going to make long-term revenue."

""Where's your long-term revenue stream?" EA isn't interested in putting big money into video games unless they can have a revenue tail"


Yeah, I really don't think this thread is making the point you want it to make.

The kind of games Bioware traditionally made don't fit with EA's plan. So they either had to make a new kind of game, one with "long term revenue" and Reoccurring User Spending or stick those things into their traditional games (i.e. microtransactions in a single player game, like the XP boosts in AC Odyssey).

Not that I'm letting Bioware of the hook here. I'm fully prepared to believe that the boring gameplay, boring loot, boring story and endless loading screen are entirely the work of modern-day Bioware.
 

hussien-11

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,182
Jordan
Bioware (choose) to make Anthem, the way it is, because they are operating under EA. in one way or another, their game reflects the the way of work of their parent company, it is simple really.
 
Dec 15, 2017
4
The pressure of "Where's your version of ultimate team?" is exactly why Bioware can't make traditional Bioware-style games. Anthem could have started as Bioware's dream game, but they had to figure out how to give it a long revenue stream acceptable to EA and ended up concluding a loot shooter was the best way to do that.

Bioware messed up really badly, but I doubt EA's current direction allows for Bioware to make the single player RPGs that it's known for.
 
May 17, 2018
329
It wasn't EA, or Frostbite, or GAAS, or anything other than Bioware. Those last two, Frostbite and GAAS are challenges for Bioware, but I'd say those are the types of challenge a dev getting this type of money should be expected to overcome.

Also, most of the problems Anthem or ME:A had are directly Biowares fault. The first weapon you got was the best for the first weeks because stats didn't do anything because of a broken scaling system. Wearing less gear is better. There is no satisfying loot or loot loop in a loot game. Cosmetics are the easiest thing to monetize but everybody looks the same.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,898
Forum title:
According to Jason Schreier, making Anthem was Bioware idea; EA actually gives the studios autonomy and more

Actual Tweets:
"it's EA saying "if you want resources, show us how your game is going to make long-term revenue."

""Where's your long-term revenue stream?" EA isn't interested in putting big money into video games unless they can have a revenue tail"

Yeah, I really don't think this thread is making the point you want it to make.

The kind of games Bioware traditionally made don't fit with EA's plan. So they either had to make a new kind of game, one with "long term revenue" and Reoccurring User Spending or stick those things into their traditional games (i.e. microtransactions in a single player game, like the XP boosts in AC Odyssey).

Not that I'm letting Bioware of the hook here. I'm fully prepared to believe that the boring gameplay, boring loot, boring story and endless loading screen are entirely the work of modern-day Bioware.
Yeah every investor should just blindly give hundreds millions of dollars to any project that comes along, have no oversight of that project, its goals or target revenues, and should just blindly allow them to make anything they want. If you make an investment of that kind no fucking shit you want to see a long term plan in place to make returns on that profit. You dont give that much money out out of the goodness of your heart. If bioware didn't want to be chained to a long term revenue project then go make a smaller game that doesn't require the resources in the first place.
 
Oct 27, 2017
223
If it really is the studios that decide what games are made, then why is it a trend of EA to have previously acclaimed studios continually make derivative games that chase industry trends w/ a greedy monetization model? I'm sure on some level the heads of the development teams are to blame with their development decisions but if this is the case across all development teams, the publisher has to be playing a major roll in these continuous turds EA keeps releasing.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,091
Yep, almost every time it's the devs who come up with whatever monetization model the game ends up using. The big studios demand that some form of it exists if they're gonna put millions into a project and then the actual implementation is mostly out of their hands.

Bioware wasn't a good fit for the culture of a studio like EA or Ubisoft, 1st party like Sony or MS would be the ideal cause they want prestige games. The path that CDPR went would have been another ideal outcome but they have the benefit of vastly lower costs cause of their country and if BW tried to stay independent they might have closed down by now. Bethesda is a 3rd party studio that lately seems to be more in line with what old BW was like.
Yeah I mean if that's the case and they want BioWare to show how they can have a return on investment stategy with additional money sources in game then publisher doesn't sound like a good fit. That's not BioWare. Maybe they can do something like uncharted and incorporate a fun multiplayer that can have vanity items. But the single player game needs to be the number 1 focus. Maybe for DA4 they can go all out on making a polished single player RPG, and then have a multiplayer done like Anthem but set in Dragin Age universe. But please have the main game be the priority BioWare.
 
Oct 29, 2017
113
Some of the posts on here are just embarassing. Jason tweets this out and people bend over backwards to still try to make this about Ea being at fault.


I feel like I'm living in a fake news town reading people contort their version of the truth into reality.

Like let it go, this was bioware not ea.
Exactly this. Those still holding onto the anti-EA narrative are so incredibly embarrassing.
 
May 17, 2018
329
If it really is the studios that decide what games are made, then why is it a trend of EA to have previously acclaimed studios continually make derivative games that chase industry trends w/ a greedy monetization model? I'm sure on some level the heads of the development teams are to blame with their development decisions but if this is the case across all development teams, the publisher has to be playing a major roll in these continuous turds EA keeps releasing.
They get a lot these studios right as the star talent starts leaving.
 
Dec 6, 2017
1,984
Yeah every investor should just blindly give hundreds millions of dollars to any project that comes along, have no oversight of that project, its goals or target revenues, and should just blindly allow them to make anything they want. If you make an investment of that kind no fucking shit you want to see a long term plan in place to make returns on that profit. You dont give that much money out out of the goodness of your heart. If bioware didn't want to be chained to a long term revenue project then go make a smaller game that doesn't require the resources in the first place.
Golly, that's an impressive list of things I never said. You sure showed me. Why, you beat the straw right out of that man!

EA have every right to invest for maximum profit. I don't contend that, nor do I expect any different from them.

I do however retain the right to express how thoroughly unimpressed I am by the boring, monotonous, soulless monetized chore-simulators that get produced as a result.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,898
the thread title doesn't really fit the contents of those tweets
Yes it does. Just because people dont understand how publishing or investments work doesn't at all change what the OP title is saying.
Golly, that's an impressive list of things I never said. You sure showed me. Why, you beat the straw right out of that man!

EA have every right to invest for maximum profit. I don't contend that, nor do I expect any different from them.

I do however retain the right to express how thoroughly unimpressed I am by the boring, monotonous, soulless monetized chore-simulators that get produced as a result.
Says person who pretends that this game was EA's doing despite bioware repeatedly stressing this was their dream project (and jason confirming that autonomy).

Also learn what a strawman is.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,483
makes me wonder what the long term revenue pitch for dragon age 4 is. Time to unhype myself from any semblence of hope for it to be a return to form of the bioware that made me become a fan of their style of games.
tbf Bioware cited Skyrim as an influence on Inquisition and one of the reasons why they went open world. Didn't work out as well as they hoped. They made money, but not Skyrim money.
It also wasn't real open world it was one of their most successful releases though.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
61
Seems like a bit of an arbitrary distinction, to be honest. So they don't literally mandate that a studio makes a Destiny clone, but they cultivate conditions where only GaaS titles are going to be funded and championed. Like, Bioware is responsible for the form that Anthem took, but EA is still the context in which the decisions which lead to Anthem were made.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,897
Sweden
Yes it does. Just because people dont understand how publishing or investments work doesn't at all change what the OP title is saying.
The thread title is technically correct but doesn't accurately reflect the context of the comments, making it very misleading overall

Yes, the idea may have been Bioware's and the studio may have some autonomy. But that autonomy is severely constrained by the internal targets set on the studio, and Anthem's business model was clearly informed by those constraints
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,105
It’s all a single company so I don’t really see the point in this whole debacle? EA is EA, and Bioware is also EA. Whether a decision is at some arbitrary Bioware level of not is just semantics.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,898
The thread title is technically correct but doesn't accurately reflect the context of the comments, making it very misleading overall
Disagree. The context and the comments align perfectly. People are just trying to distrot them to mean EA was twisting their arm to make this when thats not whats being said nor what Bioware has stated independently either. By all accounts, of every party involved, the context presented by the OP are aligned-its only here that people are trying to spin them to mean "EA coerced them through veiled threats of long term profit", when not a threat, thats just running a business. And again, Bioware has REPEATEDLY-even before the launch and the state of the game was known-stressed this was their desired dream project.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,897
Sweden
Disagree. The context and the comments align perfectly. People are just trying to distrot them to mean EA was twisting their arm to make this when thats not whats being said nor what Bioware has stated independently either. By all accounts, of every party involved, the context presented by the OP are aligned-its only here that people are trying to spin them to mean "EA coerced them through veiled threats of long term profit", when not a threat, thats just running a business. And again, Bioware has REPEATEDLY-even before the launch and the state of the game was known-stressed this was their desired dream project.
the ideas for the game may have been Bioware's and the studio may have some autonomy. but according to schreier's tweets that autonomy is severely constrained by internal targets and incentives imposed on the studio from the publisher, and Anthem's business model was clearly informed by those constraints. missing this important context makes for a very misleading thread title
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,788
When EA demand return that can match FIFA Ultimate Ream, it is basically the same as saying "give me GaaS". No single player game can have that kind of return, both EA and Bioware know it.

"I want a totally-doesn't-have-to-be-GaaS game with revenue of GaaS game" is the same as "I want Destiny clone".

Of course, Bioware should take responsibility for the state the game ends up being.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,680
makes me wonder what the long term revenue pitch for dragon age 4 is. Time to unhype myself from any semblence of hope for it to be a return to form of the bioware that made me become a fan of their style of games.
More then likely, it will be some combination of Inquisitions easy to forget it existed multiplayer coop mode and it's single player. When you can launch coop from the campaign, it's alot easier to sell people cosmetics or resource boosters etc. I highly doubt they are going to make it some radical departure.
 
Oct 27, 2017
715
This isn’t the first time we heard this either and so believe it. This was the same with Dead Space. I do believe that EA mandates some kind of recurring microtrandaction though regardless of what anyone sayd
 
Oct 25, 2017
335
Argentina
And people called me a "negative gamer" for saying this since before launch by just looking at previous Bioware staff statements. lmao.

Bioware is a mess, the game is a complete mess and you can't blame EA for that.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
5,803
Holy fuck you are delusional.

Bioware-"This is the game weve wanted to make for years, our dream project"

Jason- "Bioware was given a lot of autonomy with what their project would be"

Rando internet person- "Yeah but don't you agree EA coerced them into making this?"
Im not dilusional, you’re just ignorant. The consequences of not having a long revenue tail game is clear. The way you design games with long revenue tails is clear or are you ignorant enough to not see how game design homogenizes around GAAS? You’ve got maybe.... four discreet templates.

Maybe you’ve never made a game or are new to games?
 
Oct 25, 2017
25,520
Im not dilusional, you’re just ignorant. The consequences of not having a long revenue tail game is clear. The way you design games with long revenue tails is clear or are you ignorant enough to not see how game design has homogenizes around GAAS? You’ve got maybe.... four discreet templates.
it probably also would have been smart to design it with features that made people want to earn new loot, instead of the opposite
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,135
When EA demand return that can match FIFA Ultimate Ream, it is basically the same as saying "give me GaaS". No single player game can have that kind of return, both EA and Bioware know it.

"I want a totally-doesn't-have-to-be-GaaS game with revenue of GaaS game" is the same as "I want Destiny clone".
The tweet said "what's your version of ultimate team", nothing about demanding that extreme level of profit. Guess what, BW already did their version of UT, before with ME3's multiplayer.

Once again, nothing mandated that Anthem be a shlooter besides Bioware themselves. It could just have easily been a primarily single player experience with ME3 like multiplayer using it's monetization model aka the ultimate team model. BW themselves decided to bite off far more than they could chew, their "dream game".