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This sounds vaguely familiar but I honestly couldn't say. I think this is an issue with all the AA games to some extent (they're very one-and-done) but I'm not sure if AA4 was particularly bad in that regard.
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Ace Attorney Community |OT| A New Chapter of Trials!
- Thread starter GSR
- Start date
This sounds vaguely familiar but I honestly couldn't say. I think this is an issue with all the AA games to some extent (they're very one-and-done) but I'm not sure if AA4 was particularly bad in that regard.
Being an 80s/90s kid, I grew up watching a lot of Simpsons. There are three episodes that really stuck with me regarding the relationship between media and consumers. The current state of Ace Attorney makes me think of the "'I didn't do it' boy" episode.
If you don't know it, through various accidents, Bart gets his 15 minutes of celebrity fame when he's needed to be an extra on a Krusty skit. Bart messes up and cause the entire set to collapse and in his panic he yells out "I didn't do it" and the audience explodes in laughter. After that he gets invited to talk shows and gets more time on the Krusty show, but all anyone wants to hear from him is "I didn't do it". Bart tries to do new material and ideas, but is always shot down to say the same line until upruptly no one finds "I didn't do it" funny at all anymore. The most absurd part of the episode is after Bart's time is over, radio talk shows mock him as a one-hit wonder, running his one success into the ground and never trying something new.
It's honestly a quagmire about this subject; every angle can lead to a complex discussion. Is it Capcom being scared of trying something new? Is it the fans aversion to deviations from their expectations? Is it good to move away from what Investigations and 5/6 added and focus on what made the original trilogy so longstanding?
So as a Mega Man and Sonic fan my opinion is this: if a series refuses to grow or experiment, it might be better to let it go and let it end. The style of Ace Attorney gives it so much leeyway to have new characters, settings, and tones. But if Ace Attorney insists on dwelling on Phoenix and his trilogy, I'm okay with it going into hibernation. I mean even though I don't think too highly of the Investigations titles and 4/5/6, they're not what I'd call "bad" games at all; just different. That's a good report card to go out on. If I was to say why the Trilogy keeps around it's because they focused a lot more on the characters and their growth. While I love mysteries and how effective AA is at getting the player immersed in solving them, the fact is you can only solve a mystery once. What lasts so much longer and stays with me is emotional investiment with the characters. The first three games make an effort for you to feel sympathetic to someone in each meaningful case and most filler cases. The cases and games balance between comedic and serious.
And that's what I think is missing from the other titles.
Because the character arcs finished in AA3, the characters don't have any real investment in the events of the games that they continue to star in for the sake of marketing. The result are the artificial rising stakes of Dark Age and Khura'in's potato courts. Investigations 1/2 and 4/5/6 leaned too hard on being "video games" instead of stories with their new game mechanics in each title. 5/6 in particular embraced the stereotypes and cliches of the series instead of what made the titles so good. The characters are TOO goofy and TOO over the top. Phoenix is a panicky, nervous wreck that is flying by the seat of his pants, Athena is another by the numbers "energetic girl" and Apollo lost what little energy and bite he had in AA4 and became Phoenix Lite (I am going to make this a thing dammit!) whose most defining trait is saying "I'm fine!" really loud. And I got sick of every villain "transforming" when they took the stand. They just became cartoon characters. There are very few moments that are genuinely serious. AA5's DLC case is so good because it actually had a fairly well written and sympathetic villain. But the rest of the game, you can't relate to Athena's youth of being "too" receptive to people's "noise" or the "No nation for old lawyers" nonsense that was AA6. Heck, the Phantom reveal was one of the best twists I've seen, yet when you had them on the stand, they're goofing around with their gadgets and disguises. Why is this character not being treated with the gravity suitable to their reveal and hype? AA6's final villain and final trial was also filled with goofy animations and outside of the big twist, continued to be gag over substance (and I'm sorry but I didn't think that reveal was very sad either because of how generic and uninteresting the character was. I feel bad but Apollo's unique animation in response made me bust up laughing).
Even with its misbalanced design, Great Ace Attorney was a breath of fresh air that made me remember what I loved from the trilogy and what I was not getting in Yamazaki's games. But the poor sales and some of the reactions I've seen to it in the Great Ace OT, I'm starting to think people are not really interested in stories any more and just want mysteries to solve and then move on. Great Ace didn't work out, but we need titles like that that take chances if we want to get more fans that are willing to stick with the series for the long run and for Ace Attorney to evolve past making titles for the sake of making titles. Because we never know when the people will stop laughing at "I didn't do it".
I beat PLvsAA! I liked it though damn the Layton twist seemed somehow EXTRA insane in this game. I still haven't played Investigations 2 and the Dai games.
AA7 when? Or hell, maybe a total reboot with new characters (which is kind of what Dai is in spinoff form.. but for America too plz).
AA7 when? Or hell, maybe a total reboot with new characters (which is kind of what Dai is in spinoff form.. but for America too plz).
Well, I'm on the last case of Dual Destinies and I've really enjoyed the game a lot!
So, with almost everyone saying that Spirit of Justice is better, then I can't wait. I didn't expect to care for the new characters so quickly actually. I really like Athena, it's weird because when I always saw artworks of her I didn't like her design but now I like her a lot, she's pretty great. For me the trio works really well, and I thought that playing with different lawyers throughout the game was cool. Mostly, I'm relieved that I had no real issue with Phoenix in the game. I think his characterization is fine, he's still whacky but he also can be more mature and he stands easily as a mentor figure that his protegés can look up too. It was great to see him pass on what Mia teached him, and seeing Athena and Apollo managing to calm down during stressful moments by remembering what he said to them. If Spirit of Justice is completely Phoenix-centered then that's disappointing imo... but everyone says it's good so I don't worry too much.
So, the cases themselves may not have been the best but there have been many great moments, fun characters and as always, top notch soundtrack. I'm really surprised I liked it so much, I was bracing myself for the worst, so maybe that helped.
I had to stop playing earlier after a big freaking twist that blew my mind (good thing I didn't read the big post above mine before...),
Oh and I still have the DLC case to play after that! So if it's really as good as what you've all been saying then I'm in for a treat.
So, with almost everyone saying that Spirit of Justice is better, then I can't wait. I didn't expect to care for the new characters so quickly actually. I really like Athena, it's weird because when I always saw artworks of her I didn't like her design but now I like her a lot, she's pretty great. For me the trio works really well, and I thought that playing with different lawyers throughout the game was cool. Mostly, I'm relieved that I had no real issue with Phoenix in the game. I think his characterization is fine, he's still whacky but he also can be more mature and he stands easily as a mentor figure that his protegés can look up too. It was great to see him pass on what Mia teached him, and seeing Athena and Apollo managing to calm down during stressful moments by remembering what he said to them. If Spirit of Justice is completely Phoenix-centered then that's disappointing imo... but everyone says it's good so I don't worry too much.
So, the cases themselves may not have been the best but there have been many great moments, fun characters and as always, top notch soundtrack. I'm really surprised I liked it so much, I was bracing myself for the worst, so maybe that helped.
I had to stop playing earlier after a big freaking twist that blew my mind (good thing I didn't read the big post above mine before...),
yeah, when I realized who the phantom was. A few minutes before I was checking the profiles of all the characters on the court records, to see if there was one I could suspect. And nope, I didn't. So I thought "okay they're gonna introduce a new character then, the next who appears will be the phantom" and I thought that was kind of a letdown. Then bam, I figured it out and I got CHILLS. What a great moment.
Oh and I still have the DLC case to play after that! So if it's really as good as what you've all been saying then I'm in for a treat.
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Beat it earlier today and I agree with your statements. The trio works really well and I enjoyed Athena and her analytical psychology despite being bad at it. I had a hard time finding the unexpected reaction because I always thought too complicated.
Unfortunately I was spoiled by this thread about some endgame stuff so the final twist wasn't as meaningful as it should have been but nonetheless it was a good case.
I really liked the QOL improvements like having a real crime scene which can be investigated or the anime cutscenes which were awesome by the way. I really like to know where the series is going with AA7.
Spent a fair bit of time this weekend struggling to get DGS purchased and patched on an Android emulator, but so far it's been worth the effort. I've only done the first 2 cases but it feels fairly refreshing. While the core of the game hasn't changed it seems there are a few ideas taken from non-mainline games and applied in a way that makes sense.
The newer mechanics don't feel bolted on and keeps things from getting too repetitive. I've also got to give props to the presentation, everything looks a lot flashier, smoother and more polished than Spirit of Justice, and while SoJ did make good use of the 3D models it often felt like it was pushing the limits of what they could do with the hardware. The animation in DGS feels smoother and characters seem expressive without being OTT, which I like.
As far as the cases I've played are concerned:
I've only done a little bit of Case 3 but I'll probably finish the game some time next weekend and have compiled my overall thoughts a bit better, but so far it's pretty promising.
The newer mechanics don't feel bolted on and keeps things from getting too repetitive. I've also got to give props to the presentation, everything looks a lot flashier, smoother and more polished than Spirit of Justice, and while SoJ did make good use of the 3D models it often felt like it was pushing the limits of what they could do with the hardware. The animation in DGS feels smoother and characters seem expressive without being OTT, which I like.
As far as the cases I've played are concerned:
A surprisingly involved tutorial case (the longest in the series?), which did well at establishing Naruhodou and Asougi. Naruhodou definitely feels more Apollo than Phoenix, though the twist that he's not actually that invested in being a lawyer (at first) is different. I haven't quite got much of an opinion on him as a character but I probably won't until the game's over, as with the others.
I'll be honest, Asougi had so many death-flags that I'm shocked he didn't drop dead the second he was introduced, so props to him for making it as far as he did. I like the way they did it though: he wasn't the victim of a grand conspiracy or a moustache-twirling villain, but of someone in a bad situation making a bad call. At the end there's no malice or grudges, just a group of people wishing things hadn't turned out this way. Naruhodou taking on his mantle so that he didn't die in vain feels natural to me.
I did spend most of the case looking at my proverbial watch wondering when the trial was going to start, and it wasn't till the culprit was confessing that I realised the whole case was going to be investigation. Not a criticism, per se, but I'd have preferred if it took place in more than 3 rooms and had some Investigations-style cross-examining involved. At least Naruhodou and Holmes prancing about in front of bewildered witnesses is immensely entertaining. Holmes is mad as a box of frogs and I look forward to running into him again.
I'm not sure what to make of Susato yet. While I appreciate that her restrained and qualified demeanour is a nice change of pace from the usual energetic peppy sidekick mould, I worry that her relative lack of personality means the writers have a relatively dry well of traits to draw on for this role.
I did spend most of the case looking at my proverbial watch wondering when the trial was going to start, and it wasn't till the culprit was confessing that I realised the whole case was going to be investigation. Not a criticism, per se, but I'd have preferred if it took place in more than 3 rooms and had some Investigations-style cross-examining involved. At least Naruhodou and Holmes prancing about in front of bewildered witnesses is immensely entertaining. Holmes is mad as a box of frogs and I look forward to running into him again.
I'm not sure what to make of Susato yet. While I appreciate that her restrained and qualified demeanour is a nice change of pace from the usual energetic peppy sidekick mould, I worry that her relative lack of personality means the writers have a relatively dry well of traits to draw on for this role.
I've only done a little bit of Case 3 but I'll probably finish the game some time next weekend and have compiled my overall thoughts a bit better, but so far it's pretty promising.
I recently went through the recently released trilogy and i'm now in love with this series. I don't really feel like waiting for Capcom to release another collection so i'm considering buying the mobile ports but i'm a bit worried about compatibility issues and stuff like that.
Capcom Mobile's site completely ignores Android and lists only the supported iOS versions, anyone here knows if there are any issues with Android 9?
Capcom Mobile's site completely ignores Android and lists only the supported iOS versions, anyone here knows if there are any issues with Android 9?
Started spirit of Justice today on a long train journey and the first impression is quite good. I just like the goofiness of Phoenix and the reappearance of Payne was great. I had to laugh when Phoenix tried to enter the court room. I immediately thought of the let-me-get-in meme because he used the exact same words. Don't know if that is a coincidence or not.
So I finally got around to buying and playing the Great Ace Attorney fan translation on my phone and I really liked it!! I want to play the 2nd one but i dont think the second game fan translation is done yet? Does anyone know about this, or if they're still working on it etc? I feel like i was only able to find the translation for the demo.
The first game took 3-4 years to get translated. They've immediately moved on to the second game so look forward to playing it in 2023.
It's being worked on and we should see the second game out quicker than the first one. They have a good amount of translators now so it just depends on how much time the different team members can put towards it.
As with any fan project there's the possibility of life/burnout/unexpected difficulties, but they did say 2 should be out faster.
I figure I should get the 3DS games before they make adding funds awkward as hell on 3DS, so I was wondering, which DLC packs are essential in terms of story/gameplay for Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice?
Also, does Apollo Justice support 3D like the trilogy? It's my favourite, and that'd be a great reason (flimsy excuse) to replay.
Also, does Apollo Justice support 3D like the trilogy? It's my favourite, and that'd be a great reason (flimsy excuse) to replay.
I had a boring-ass weekend with relatives so I decided to replay AA2. Honestly, I think I've come around on it because I loved all of those cases, even the circus case. The motive behind it and the killer's remorse always gets me.
There is no case in the trilogy where it doesn't at least add up. With the hindsight of the games not made by Shu Takumi I realized what was once "bad" was at least not shallow.
Turnabout Reclaimed for Dual Destinies and Turnabout Time Traveler for Spirit of Justicrare full DLC cases that, while not essential to the story, are worth playing. Reclaimed is considered pretty good, while Time Traveler is criticized among other things for seemingly resetting some character development. I'd say both are worth playing, Reclaimed especially.
The rest of the DLC are costumes for the characters that can easily be skipped.
I am in the middle of case 3 of spirit of Justice and this case feels really great. The pacing is good, the new characters are interesting and the setting is really refreshing. Much better than case 2 which felt like it was shorted for some reason. For me it made not a lot sense how the culprit was found and there was imho no decisive evidence against him. At least I remember it this way.
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Next week... In game magazines...
More seriously, I guess I'm cautiously optimistic? It's been 2 years since DGS2 and 3 since AA6, so if they've been working on a new title it's probably around the time to announce. But we don't know that they are working on a new title. No idea what Yamazaki's up to, and while Takumi's been doing promo for the anime and stuff it's possible he's doing something non-AA too.
Wasn't DGS2 a commercial failure in Japan? I worry that might have been concerning to Capcom.
I'm at least hoping for another compilation like the Phoenix Wright collection at TGS. I don't really think it's time to worry just yet though.
And yeah I think DGS2 didn't sell very well over here. I'm not sure if it was a commercial failure but the sales were certainly low.
And yeah I think DGS2 didn't sell very well over here. I'm not sure if it was a commercial failure but the sales were certainly low.
You mean 456, right? Because 123 is basically beating a dead horse at this point.
This would be the first time AA is forced to be developed for a console experience and not strictly a handheld one, so I could see that being a tricky process. It'd also make them think twice about what they do with Ace Attorney, when it's clearly not one of their "major franchises."
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I suppose there's an outside chance of a new port at the Switch port panel they're holding, but I wouldn't count on it.
It's definitely true that making the jump to console is gonna be tough, especially if they're dealing with a director shakeup and/or want to take the series in a new direction. But it is a little disappointing if the next title doesn't hit until 2021 - that'll be 5 years since AA6 and 4 since DGS2. (It will however be the series' 20th anniversary, so...)
It's definitely true that making the jump to console is gonna be tough, especially if they're dealing with a director shakeup and/or want to take the series in a new direction. But it is a little disappointing if the next title doesn't hit until 2021 - that'll be 5 years since AA6 and 4 since DGS2. (It will however be the series' 20th anniversary, so...)
Yeah I was talking about 456. I think if they brought out 123 again there'd be riot.
I dunno maybe it's not a priority for them. Hopefully the series still has a chance to keep going
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Finally finished spirit of Justice and enjoyed it a lot. The last case was really cool and there were so many twists and turns in it that I didn't know how it is going to end.
So the question is where to go from this. I completed every mainline AA and I want another visual novel ready to start when I travel. I am skeptical about fan translations of Japan exclusive games so I guess I will start with the professor Layton series. Or did I miss something in the AA series that is worth checking out?
So the question is where to go from this. I completed every mainline AA and I want another visual novel ready to start when I travel. I am skeptical about fan translations of Japan exclusive games so I guess I will start with the professor Layton series. Or did I miss something in the AA series that is worth checking out?
Ace Attorney Investigations 1 had an official translation, so you could give that a spin if you've only played the mainline games. It's not as good as its sequel (which does have a very well done fan translation, imo) but it satisfies the ol' Ace Attorney fix just the same.
Wasn't going to make a new thread, but I was able to win one of the Takumi Art Pieces from the recent contest!
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Congrats! A while back a friend passed along a letter of mine to Takumi and had him sign some DGS art for me - he seems really sweet. (And yes, I mentioned Dino Crisis in my letter too lol.)
I'm very stuck in TGS, Episode 5, Investigation 4, and a little afraid to look up a guide for spoilers. I'm also not sure how to describe where I am... is there any obvious stuck point?
The investigations have been totally railroaded up to this point, and I've seemingly examined everything in every area...
If you know where I am and can give a hint, that could be better than outright telling me, but at this point I'm pretty darn frustrated—I've probably spent ~2+ hours now re-examining random things I've looked at before...
Sherlock Holmes is in the hospital, Gina Lestrade is behind bars, and we've collected three blood samples: one blue (Hatch), one purple (Mortar), and one green (unknown).
The investigations have been totally railroaded up to this point, and I've seemingly examined everything in every area...
If you know where I am and can give a hint, that could be better than outright telling me, but at this point I'm pretty darn frustrated—I've probably spent ~2+ hours now re-examining random things I've looked at before...
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I remember getting a bit stumped sometime around here. I can't remember exactly what I did to resolve it, but have you tried presenting stuff to others?
Do you currently have evidence named "Iris' Script?" If not, you need to invesitgate the Pawn Shop for the following points of interest:
shelf, small box, victim traces, pistol. Following this, you should recieve Iris' Script which you need to then present to Gina along with the updated Blood Samples. Everything following should be obvious.
shelf, small box, victim traces, pistol. Following this, you should recieve Iris' Script which you need to then present to Gina along with the updated Blood Samples. Everything following should be obvious.
I got this from an FAQ on Gamespot but it lines up with what I recall from my own playthrough a few months back. Good luck and enjoy!
Edit: Also present the Deposit Reciept to Gregson if you haven't already - that's a necessary step in progressing.
Just went through my file of the area and here's exactly what I did to progress. While the majority of the investigation phase is kinda open about where you can go, the shop is the second to last spot before the phase ends so you cannot go there without doing everything else first. Meaning you aren't missing something obscure in one of the other spots.
Hatch's shop
-examine calendar
-examine desk
-Talk to Iris all subjects
-Examine the backside of both "kitty" pictures, including the bloody thumbprint
-Present (Iris) the receipt with the bloody thumbprint
-Answer "Actually I do know" and "Thrice Fried Mortar"
-Examine door to storage room
-Move to Storage room
Storage room
-Examine blood on floor
-Examine pistol on the floor
-Examine red chest
-Talk to Gregson all subjects
-Present receipt (small box)
-Talk to Gregson new subject
The clocks inside the shop should go off, meaning you have finished here. Go to the detention center to talk to Gina.
-examine calendar
-examine desk
-Talk to Iris all subjects
-Examine the backside of both "kitty" pictures, including the bloody thumbprint
-Present (Iris) the receipt with the bloody thumbprint
-Answer "Actually I do know" and "Thrice Fried Mortar"
-Examine door to storage room
-Move to Storage room
Storage room
-Examine blood on floor
-Examine pistol on the floor
-Examine red chest
-Talk to Gregson all subjects
-Present receipt (small box)
-Talk to Gregson new subject
The clocks inside the shop should go off, meaning you have finished here. Go to the detention center to talk to Gina.
Thank you! I'm a little embarrassed that it seems like you did a lot of work for me, but it was helpful!
I somehow hadn't presented the small box to Gregson. Which is odd because I thought I'd tried presenting him every item in my inventory. Guess I managed to miss one!
While I'm here—that conversation with Gina at the end of the chapter was really well done. The importance of trust is a very common theme in this series, but IMO it usually comes across as trite and preachy. This time, it felt genuine.
You're very welcome and it wasn't a lot of work at all. I've played DGS1 almost a dozen times so I have the flow of events pretty much memorized and you can select sub-chapters to jump to from the title screen. One of them puts you right at the start of the pawn shop investigation so it's real easy to list out the steps.
DGS's greatest strength is its characterization and Gina is one of the best written ones. She's probably my favorite defendant in the series.
First two cases for DGS 2 are out on 3DS now with Android coming soon!
https://scarletstudy.gq/2019/12/26/...g-attorney-the-memoirs-of-the-clouded-kokoro/
https://scarletstudy.gq/2019/12/26/...g-attorney-the-memoirs-of-the-clouded-kokoro/
