If a report comes out that says everyone around Trump are criminals but he is a complete moron and the GOP just keep backing him 100%… I dont… I probably will just mentally write off the US.
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Adam Schiff WaPo OpEd: An open letter to my Republican colleagues
- Thread starter ThreePi
- Start date
If a report comes out that says everyone around Trump are criminals but he is a complete moron and the GOP just keep backing him 100%… I dont… I probably will just mentally write off the US.
Traditions and norms! Unless you're the GOP and then the traditions and norms of their imaginary versions of Reagan and the 1950s are the only ones that matter.
It's why so many of the young liberal politicians got a lot of these system politicians all shook. Different age compared to the ones they grew up in and were molded by.
A major disruption to the system is a danger for them all because they don't want us to peek behind the curtain to much else we find out that the emperor has no clothes. I don't mean Trump or some powerful Dem politician btw, I'm talking about the country as an entity, this experiment.
So trust me all, I know where the "it's going to be totally clears the president thank you" takes are coming from. I still think you're wrong in this specific large area, but I get it. They're not necessarily scorching takes.
Emboldens him more then claiming king's right to steal money from states to build a vanity project?
I've said from day one that this would be the outcome. Trump is more or less clueless about any potential collusion, and it was several bad actors (I won't say everyone around him, but probably a lot of them) that were in communication with Russia and working behind the scenes to sow discord in the electorate. I think, more likely, and I've said as much in the past, we will be finding out that several members of Congress, mainly concentrated in the GOP, are Russian assets when all is said and done.
He plainly obstructed justice, in public, multiple times. That's a crime and it's going to be in the report (I mean, it had better be. I'm not sure why it wouldn't). There's no way he gets off without any criminal accusations just based on that alone.
I think the takes in here are much too pessimistic
I think the takes in here are much too pessimistic
It's certainly in the realm of possibility.
We all know he's a moron... Who doesn't like to use texts or email. It's entirely possible that he doesn't have a trail leading directly to him, or that the guy that can't be bothered to read daily briefings just let the campaign run itself. That was always my fear regarding the investigation.
But asking help from the Russian government is such a stupid idea that only Trump could conceive of it.
Just a technicality: he attempted to obstruct justice. We don't know if he actually achieved his goal. Either way, attempting to obstruct justice is still a crime.
I think people are right to be critical of the amount of damage the report will do to the Trump presidency considering the president has been very careful to let the investigation run it's course without interfering or criticizing the prosecutors involved in the investigation. All of this clearly points to it being another nothingberder.
I could easily make the case that Manafort could have spearheaded most of that, just based on what we know already. Or Roger Stone.
Getting the vibe that the report is not going to bring him to justice.
I'm trying to get ready for an insufferable amount of tweets by the PoSTUS , a never before seen gigantic round of rallies around the country blaming the media, deep state and liberals, renovated conspiracy theories about the FBI and the rest of the American institutions, basically a gigantically "I FUCKING TOLDO YOU SO" by the orange turd. Basically what we have now x1000.
People are gonna swallow it, independents will jump ship back to DT and we're in for 4 more years.
I fucking hate this . Trying not to be pessimistic about it but I honestly can't avoid. Fuck this shit.
What about Jr, Jared and Eric? Are they walking free too? Fuck fuck fuck.
I'm trying to get ready for an insufferable amount of tweets by the PoSTUS , a never before seen gigantic round of rallies around the country blaming the media, deep state and liberals, renovated conspiracy theories about the FBI and the rest of the American institutions, basically a gigantically "I FUCKING TOLDO YOU SO" by the orange turd. Basically what we have now x1000.
People are gonna swallow it, independents will jump ship back to DT and we're in for 4 more years.
I fucking hate this . Trying not to be pessimistic about it but I honestly can't avoid. Fuck this shit.
What about Jr, Jared and Eric? Are they walking free too? Fuck fuck fuck.
It's absolutely impossible that everything happened without Trump's knowledge.
You don't have to be bright or to be involved directly to be part of a conspiracy.
Yes he's too dumb to have orchestrated everything, so what? You think he didn't know about the Trump Tower meeting? He didn't know about the communications between Trump Jr, Stone and Wikileaks? He didn't know about the Moscow Project?
He did change the Republican platform on Russia because he's a moron and just likes Putin? Not because he was excpecting something in return?
Read again the questions Mueller wanted to ask Trump.
Now tell me he will come clean in the report.
You don't have to be bright or to be involved directly to be part of a conspiracy.
Yes he's too dumb to have orchestrated everything, so what? You think he didn't know about the Trump Tower meeting? He didn't know about the communications between Trump Jr, Stone and Wikileaks? He didn't know about the Moscow Project?
He did change the Republican platform on Russia because he's a moron and just likes Putin? Not because he was excpecting something in return?
Read again the questions Mueller wanted to ask Trump.
- What did you know about phone calls that Mr. Flynn made with the Russian ambassador, Sergey I. Kislyak, in late December 2016?
- What was your reaction to news reports on Jan. 12, 2017, and Feb. 8-9, 2017?
- What did you know about Sally Yates's meetings about Mr. Flynn?
- How was the decision made to fire Mr. Flynn on Feb. 13, 2017?
- After the resignations, what efforts were made to reach out to Mr. Flynn about seeking immunity or possible pardon?
- What was your opinion of Mr. Comey during the transition?
- What did you think about Mr. Comey's intelligence briefing on Jan. 6, 2017, about Russian election interference?
- What was your reaction to Mr. Comey's briefing that day about other intelligence matters?
- What was the purpose of your Jan. 27, 2017, dinner with Mr. Comey, and what was said?
- What was the purpose of your Feb. 14, 2017, meeting with Mr. Comey, and what was said?
- What did you know about the F.B.I.'s investigation into Mr. Flynn and Russia in the days leading up to Mr. Comey's testimony on March 20, 2017?
- What did you do in reaction to the March 20 testimony? Describe your contacts with intelligence officials.
- What did you think and do in reaction to the news that the special counsel was speaking to Mr. Rogers, Mr. Pompeo and Mr. Coats?
- What was the purpose of your calls to Mr. Comey on March 30 and April 11, 2017?
- What was the purpose of your April 11, 2017, statement to Maria Bartiromo?
- What did you think and do about Mr. Comey's May 3, 2017, testimony?
- Regarding the decision to fire Mr. Comey: When was it made? Why? Who played a role?
- What did you mean when you told Russian diplomats on May 10, 2017, that firing Mr. Comey had taken the pressure off?
- What did you mean in your interview with Lester Holt about Mr. Comey and Russia?
- What was the purpose of your May 12, 2017, tweet?
- What did you think about Mr. Comey's June 8, 2017, testimony regarding Mr. Flynn, and what did you do about it?
- What was the purpose of the September and October 2017 statements, including tweets, regarding an investigation of Mr. Comey?
- What is the reason for your continued criticism of Mr. Comey and his former deputy, Andrew G. McCabe?
- What did you think and do regarding the recusal of Mr. Sessions?
- What efforts did you make to try to get him to change his mind?
- Did you discuss whether Mr. Sessions would protect you, and reference past attorneys general?
- What did you think and what did you do in reaction to the news of the appointment of the special counsel?
- Why did you hold Mr. Sessions's resignation until May 31, 2017, and with whom did you discuss it?
- What discussions did you have with Reince Priebus in July 2017 about obtaining the Sessions resignation? With whom did you discuss it?
- What discussions did you have regarding terminating the special counsel, and what did you do when that consideration was reported in January 2018?
- What was the purpose of your July 2017 criticism of Mr. Sessions?
- When did you become aware of the Trump Tower meeting?
- What involvement did you have in the communication strategy, including the release of Donald Trump Jr.'s emails?
- During a 2013 trip to Russia, what communication and relationships did you have with the Agalarovs and Russian government officials?
- What communication did you have with Michael D. Cohen, Felix Sater and others, including foreign nationals, about Russian real estate developments during the campaign?
- What discussions did you have during the campaign regarding any meeting with Mr. Putin? Did you discuss it with others?
- What discussions did you have during the campaign regarding Russian sanctions?
- What involvement did you have concerning platform changes regarding arming Ukraine?
- During the campaign, what did you know about Russian hacking, use of social media or other acts aimed at the campaign?
- What knowledge did you have of any outreach by your campaign, including by Paul Manafort, to Russia about potential assistance to the campaign?
- What did you know about communication between Roger Stone, his associates, Julian Assange or WikiLeaks?
- What did you know during the transition about an attempt to establish back-channel communication to Russia, and Jared Kushner's efforts?
- What do you know about a 2017 meeting in Seychelles involving Erik Prince?
- What do you know about a Ukrainian peace proposal provided to Mr. Cohen in 2017?
The blatant OoJ alone makes it difficult for me to see a reality where Trump isn't accused of anytbing criminal.
Trump has already been found guilty of criminal activity in the payoffs to women. Cohen is going to prison for the same exact crime. Unfortunately you are pretty much invincible as president so he will never be criminally charged for anything. His family members can and will be charged if not by SDNY, then by the state of NY.
Im not sure I follow. People went out and voted in record numbers during the midterms. They don't have another vote until 2020. What's wrong with hoping something else takes care of Trump in between those times? If people actually behaved like their vote didn't matter and it was all up to Mueller, I'd understand, but that's not what's been happening.
I get the feeling from this that Schiff is offering an olive branch one last time, to any rats that want to escape the sinking ship. Join us now and get a slap on the wrists, or go down in flames. The RNC is about to be deeply impacted in conspiracy with Trump and Russia.
The whole RNC has been tainted by NRA/Russia. Not every Republican is as active, as say Nunes, or bunches that have been meeting with Russians, in thwarting justice. The blackmail held Russia, Wikileaks, and Trump have on them is what is keeping them in line.
I'm all for giving them a quiet way out of their dilemma to save the country.
The whole RNC has been tainted by NRA/Russia. Not every Republican is as active, as say Nunes, or bunches that have been meeting with Russians, in thwarting justice. The blackmail held Russia, Wikileaks, and Trump have on them is what is keeping them in line.
I'm all for giving them a quiet way out of their dilemma to save the country.
I guess Dem prez better get their playbook ready to break some laws and just avoid a bj to stay in office.
This. And that some of them are involved and so will protect themselves at the same time.
Republicans only act in the best interests of Republicans...at least, the rich ones. Expect them to walk around like their shit doesn't stink, despite the fact the Manafort is going to fucking prison, Stone is one step away, Cohen is feeding the investigation spicy information, Flynn possibly/probably has more to be squeezed for, and so on.
But of course it just so happens that the president didn't have anything to do with it. Not his fault the he profited directly from their crimes. No fire at all, just lots of smoke and stuff that's been burned.
At best, they've got Trump dead to rights. At worst, he's got to at least be seen as culpable, incapable of serving, and should be removed from office.
Nothing, but the the gifs and memes have a way of running into the ground and most people on the internet don't read pass the headlines.
Yeah, it's funny in particular how the RNC was hacked by Russian operatives at the same time as the DNC back in spring '16, but no actual data was ever dumped and no one really knew about it till after the election (that 1 GOP rep talked about the hack before the election and then quickly said he "misspoke" I believe.
We still don't know the extent of it or if the FBI or others know what specifically was hacked in the first place. That said,I think it's easy to conclude that Putin and his GRU dogs have had a large oppo dump on many GOP members since the 2016 election.
And NRA/Russia connection is huge imo and a quite often understated part of the whole conspiracy. I wonder if it's because Mueller has little to do with this side of the investigation.
Right. It's not as if the report won't be *suggestive* of the fact that he's a criminal... But that it simply won't be the condemnation that will get him in serious shit with the GOP. We all agree the bar for that is very high at this point.
Without direct evidence that he was involved with Russia, there's a good chance he'll emerge from this whole ordeal relatively unharmed if not slightly boosted.
Mueller report comes out and says Trump isn't a criminal, Republicans rejoice.
Mueller report comes out and says Trump is a criminal, Republicans are gonna just spin harder.
Mueller report comes out and says Trump is a criminal, Republicans are gonna just spin harder.
Any boost he might get he'll just torpedo with his next blunder.
I think Schiff is expecting the GOP to call Mueller's report (which I expect to be damning for Trump and his entire administration, at the very minimum recommending indictment for Obstruction of Justice and abusing the Emolument clause, but possibly going all the way to attempted if not confirmed collusion and downright treason for political and financial gains) a politically motivated coup and basically say
This defeatism has always been there. People are tired and are losing hope the adults will do anything about anything.
Or- That we've created another bubble in this community, much like the last, that is incapable of seeing things for what they are.
Most rational actors in the media think this will be damaging, but not in any way damning, to Trump and will not likely lead to calls for impeachment. And in order for the GOP to act, damning is the floor.
We'll find out soon enough, hopefully.
Absolutely. It will be a popular talking point for a few weeks then we'll move on to the ineptitude of his administration. Basically, back to regularly scheduled programming.
That's my take on what he's foreseeing (tis not prophecy, tis history).
Remember all that "NO RUSSIANS" "OK, SOME RUSSIANS" "ONLY THAT GUY" "NO, NOT AFTER ELECTION" "OH MAYBE IT WAS AFTER THE ELECTION"? Goalpost moving, pushing the envelope of successful impeachment so deep into sheer criminality that it can still be construed as a partisan affair enough so that more than 75% of GOP stick. His mob roll up of the GOP operation itself is more proof that it's making everything "GOP" in this country about him so that if he goes down, EVERYTHING GOP-friendly goes down to keep that number high.
And also cuz there is no way in hell that there's no evidence of Individual-1 not implicated in multiple felonies. Financial, obstruction, campaign, blackmail, espionage, fraud...I am worried also that the most damning evidence will be complicated money maneuvers (payoffs, getting square with debts, money laundering in general) so that it can go over the head of many who want a PP Tape to slam the cell door shut on him.
If you're hoping that Trump gets forcefully removed from office... you shouldn't be. Once it became readily apparent in 2017 that the GOP were going to defend him no matter what, the idea that this investigation would see Trump out of office before 2021 has always been wishful thinking. The GOP have the senate, and the numbers needed to remove him were always going to require double digit GOP senators voting him out, which was never going to happen on these kinds of charges. Hell, I don't know that anything less than rape or murder would be enough for the GOP to turn on him.
Simultaneously if you think that he's a shoe in for reelection should this report exonerate him, you're being overly defeatist.
The Trump campaign colluded with Russia. That's a fact. Trump at the very least hand picked all these crooks for his campaign and his cabinet. His disregard for the law didn't start and hasn't ended with the 2016 election.
This stuff moves slowly. I believe we will see him in court. I think it's likely we'll see him behind bars. But not this decade.
Simultaneously if you think that he's a shoe in for reelection should this report exonerate him, you're being overly defeatist.
The Trump campaign colluded with Russia. That's a fact. Trump at the very least hand picked all these crooks for his campaign and his cabinet. His disregard for the law didn't start and hasn't ended with the 2016 election.
This stuff moves slowly. I believe we will see him in court. I think it's likely we'll see him behind bars. But not this decade.
His Op-ed basically means that they don't have anything on Trump. Otherwise he could just be silent and enjoy the fall of the Republicans.
Also when Mueller doesn't have indited either Jared or Eric that also means a thing.
The obstruction case also falls flat if there is nothing to obstruct against (maybe the Flynn case is different).
If this report doesn't deliver a blow then it is over, then he can use this report along with the support of the Republicans to stop the other cases. And then the Democrats has to make a risky decision to go forward.
Also it looks like Trump is calming down, he isn't going after Mueller anymore. And he has no problem that the report comes out (not all of it), he looked relax when they asked him about that. If there was something damning in it. And the report would come out next week. Then you can bet that Trump would be tweeting non stop to spin the narrative. Also Giuliani would be spinning on all the networks already.
So yeah if you want this guy out you have to do it the normal way and vote. But if the report is what I think it is. Then that is a major major victory to Trump.
Also when Mueller doesn't have indited either Jared or Eric that also means a thing.
The obstruction case also falls flat if there is nothing to obstruct against (maybe the Flynn case is different).
If this report doesn't deliver a blow then it is over, then he can use this report along with the support of the Republicans to stop the other cases. And then the Democrats has to make a risky decision to go forward.
Also it looks like Trump is calming down, he isn't going after Mueller anymore. And he has no problem that the report comes out (not all of it), he looked relax when they asked him about that. If there was something damning in it. And the report would come out next week. Then you can bet that Trump would be tweeting non stop to spin the narrative. Also Giuliani would be spinning on all the networks already.
So yeah if you want this guy out you have to do it the normal way and vote. But if the report is what I think it is. Then that is a major major victory to Trump.
Trump has no idea what's in the report. He's calm because he expects Barr to do what he nominated him for. He will lose his shit when its revealed that Barr isn't going to stifle the report or when Mueller is subpoenad to testify.
Edit: if he knows there is nothing in it, why the hell would be rail against it from the beginning?
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Ok but didn't Whitaker saw it all? It would surprise me very much if Trump doesn't know quite a bit what is in the report.
But who knows what is in the report beside the Mueller team? If Schiff doesn't know it then why this op-ed? He knows that the Republicans will do nothing. So why not be silent and if it is a damning report, then come out. I have the feeling that most in Washington know what the report is and where it goes. If it would be damning then Jared or Eric wouldn't be walking free now. And there would be other crimes being prosecuted against Manafort and Stone.
1. Schiff is putting this out there because he knows Republicans most likely won't act, no matter what the report says.
2. It's speculated that Mueller only indicted those he could "flip" for information, not those who will be arrested for the crime of conspiracy. I.e. Trump, Kushner, Jr., etc. those are going to be outlined in the report and the DOJ will have to make that call. Muellers job was to investigate Russian interference and collusion. Then present the findings to the DOJ.
Ok maybe you are right on the first point, although that would be a weird strategy. Why not make a plead when you have more meat on the table?
About the second point, maybe and that would be interesting but then why indite Stone when he said he will never go against the president or Manafort who basically says the same thing.
Don't give him a chance to defect. If he's overseas he will have a chance. Do it when he's in the Whitehouse.
Not at all. Being innocent of the charges doesn't have any baring on obstruction of justice, or witness tampering etc.
It's like lying in court. You may be innocent of the crime, but that doesn't make it any more legal for you to lie to further deflect suspicion. Firing someone for daring to investigate you (if that's indeed what happened) is clearly illegal and massively problematic behavior for the President whether they were right to question you in the first place.
It's easy to talk like that until you face serious jail time. See Cohen, Flynn, Popadopolis, etc.
Eh, tell the SS before Trump get on the plane. Make sure the button bag guy "misses" getting on the plane. In NK, let Trump walk off the plane, close to door and take off.
I agree but it could be more difficult to prove if he can do it within his power. How then can you proof that he did it for the wrong reasons if there is nothing faulty behind it?