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Adult Swim just posting straight up transphobia now [possibly misinterpreted, see additional comics in OP]

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travisbickle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,696
It’s like the internet keeps giving people basic lessons to learn from yet they won’t.

“Possibly Misinterpreted” is a good band name.
 

Etrian Oddity

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,132
No one is blaming people for thinking it's transphobic at first glance. I even said this on the second page:



With even more understanding of his work, we now know that that's a character he uses a lot and in comics that cannot even be remotely seen as transphobic. He also seems to be very pro LGBT and the reason he dresses his characters like that is because his pro gender fluidity.

With everything that we now know of him, why even say "well, are they transphobic?". Like, this guy will forever be seen as a possible bigot just because people misinterpreted his work as face value? It's not wrong to be mistaken, and it's completely understandable in this case, but why not just say "oh, I guess that's not what I thought at first".
Because people love to be outraged today. You have a very reasonable stance; sadly, I don't see it too often with most people [online] these days.

Eleven pages later, I guarantee you most of the people in this thread won't have learned a thing or have an introspective moment about this.
 
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trashtabby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
786
This is rubbish. Denying that intent matters means pretending it doesn't matter that these people aren't trans and that the "truth/lies has nothing to do with gender identity.

Ridiculous.
When in the end people think the characters are meant to represent trans people, then yeah, it doesn't matter. Trans people are still hurt by it. Transphobes are still making fun of trans people for being hurt by it. Hell, the latter actually feel more validated to make fun of trans people offended by this because of there being reason to believe the intent may not be transphobic.

Meanwhile people who don't care give them even more validation as they join in on saying people are just outraged. (For example: literally the post above this one) As if the only ones who get mad are other cis people who aren't actually affected. Shit like this does actually affect transgender people, we constantly see jokes like the original comic except intentionally aimed at us. And seeing that so often feels pretty terrible.

An accidental wound is still a wound.
 
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Mona

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,708
i was going to chime in when this thread was initially posted, but now that its taken this turn i'll just say this, its certainly possible for an artists work to have a message and represent something that they did not intend

intent is the be all end all when it comes to judging a person's character, but not when judging a person's art
 

ShadowAUS

Member
Feb 20, 2019
938
Australia
i was going to chime in when this thread was initially posted, but now that its taken this turn i'll just say this, its certainly possible for an artists work to have a message and represent something that they did not intend

intent is the be all end all when it comes to judging a person's character, but not when judging a person's art
Basically what I was going to write earlier. I judge people based on intent and actions based on impact - this is imperfect as while you can judge an impact of an action you can never truly know someones intent, but if a person doesn't give me a reason to distrust what they say then I will almost always believe them. From everything I've seen I don't believe the artist is transphobic and I don't believe they meant harm (though we won't actually know unless the artist makes a statement) but I do think that due to the comic having no internal context and being pretty bad in general it's so very easy to read transphobia in it. Whether intentional or not the comic has hurt people and it's given bigots ammunition because of this which isn't something that can't just be waved away with "but the context!", the way the comic was presented out of context is harmful, just look at some of Twitter replies. Which is why I'm curious to hear the reasoning of the social media person for [AS] about what they intended by posting something that seems so blatantly inflammatory without any context.
 

BowieZ

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,449
i was going to chime in when this thread was initially posted, but now that its taken this turn i'll just say this, its certainly possible for an artists work to have a message and represent something that they did not intend

intent is the be all end all when it comes to judging a person's character, but not when judging a person's art
Perfect summation.

It’s weird how we have quite a few apparently enlightened commentators defending this work who seem totally unaware of the irony of needing to defend it.

It (and by extension, the creator) needs defending because it is simply poorly conceived given the zeitgeist.

Whether you call it bad, or transphobic, that’s obviously debatable. But it’s poorly conceived and executed, so in my opinion, that means it’s bad.
 

loquaciousJenny

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,906
This comic could have been pulled straight off of Kotaku in Action, who cares about the intent, even taken at the best possible interpretation it's still a bad premise same as the one about witchhunts
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,819
This thread made me look up the artist's Instagram only to realize that I've seen/ been a fan of his work for years.

To make another Era centric comparison this reminds me of the multiple threads that accused Attack on Titan of being anti-Semitic. Just goes to show that no matter the intent if you use charged imagery some people will inevitably have a strong reaction to it.
 

cdr Jameson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
55
The artist worked for the new york times, humo etc, no way this comic would have been accepted by them. They have strict guidelines for their illustrators and writers. This is a severe editorial error on behalve of Adult Swim. The artist's intent is not transphobic but this is a perfect example where the editor comes in and says; "Brecht, you realize how this can be read, do you?"
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
6,787
Because people love to be outraged today. You have a very reasonable stance; sadly, I don't see it too often with most people [online] these days.

Eleven pages later, I guarantee you most of the people in this thread won't have learned a thing or have an introspective moment about this.
You can't lament not seeing reasonable stances around and then move to reduce an entire section of the discussion as "people love to be outraged" before suggesting they need to learn something or have an introspective moment.

Reasoned stances don't rely on condescension and reductivism to stand tall, perhaps if you want to see more reasoned posts start by posting them yourself. There's many posts engaging in thought out discussion, you just chose not to respond to them.
 
Aug 25, 2018
307
User Banned (5 Days): Inflammatory Community Generalizations and Trolling Over Multiple Posts
This place is embarrassing.

Need a pithy equivalent of milkshake duck - jumping the gun is too convoluted.
 

Metal B

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,289
I mean for me at least I've been reading most of the criticism as believing this to be a case where the work being discussed was probably not intended to send a transphobic message, but it was poorly done or done thoughtlessly. I doubt this is far-reaching criticism that is going to ruin the artist's life. I do think it's a fundamentally bad comic though, and I'm mixed on the artist's work as a whole.
Well, that's the thing. Are they? I cannot know what motivates this artist in their heart of hearts but without that added context it is, as noted, steeped in transphobic stereotypes. If you wish to consider the question in that sense then we'll just talk in circles because the only person who could even have a chance to have the ability to answer with full knowledge of the circumstances and truthfully is the artist in question. We can still only guess from context and I do think most of us would prefer to be charitable.

There are a number of reasons people rush to judgments in cases like this, but I'd like to remind you that PTSD-induced hypervigilance is a hell of a drug, and unsurprisingly it is more common in vulnerable communities. A lot of people targeted by the sort of imagery these comics traffic in do not have the luxury of second-guessing their safety, and I do not blame them rushing to judgment.
It's art, you are supposed to look for meaning and think about it. If the artist need to explain anything in detail, just that nobody misunderstands them, the magic of art gets lost.

The biggest fear of producing art, is that people will misunderstand your message. But this is what also makes it brave and fascinating, that the artist shows trust into the audience.
 

Crickey

Member
Jul 16, 2019
35
User Banned (5 Days): Antagonistic Drive-By Posting and History of Similar Behavior; Account in Junior Phase
resetera, the thread.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,824
No, but it has everything to do with legions of privileged people being too dense to fathom that interpreting something that looks transphobic as transphobic isn’t the primary issue here.

This entire thread is basically comprised of cishet white men gaslighting people who have to deal with this kind of shit on a regular basis.
PUT THIS IN EVERY THREAD
 

fierrotlepou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,255
User Banned (Permanent): Inflammatory Community Attacks and Grossly Dismissing Concerns of Bigotry; Prior Bans for Bigotry
"Possibly misinterpreted" should be the default end on any topic-title these days.
My fucking god, yes it should.

Do your research people, seriously. How the hell do you manage to go through life when you’re IMMEDIATELY offended by everything? It’s become incredibly frustrating to see all these threads pop up here. Threads exactly like this one, where at the end there’s been a mistake, or it wasn’t that bad after all.

There’s nothing fun about browsing off-topic most of the time, and even gaming is infested with people being outraged.

It’s frustrating and exhausting, and frankly: this place fucking sucks now, because of you sensitive pieces of shit.

And IDGAF being banned because of this: you have all ruined everything that made this place fun. Maybe you’ll see it one day.

The old place is a cesspool, but this isn’t any better. The first few months were great. It’s sad that it didn’t stay that way.
 

SENPAIatLARGE

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
Because people love to be outraged today. You have a very reasonable stance; sadly, I don't see it too often with most people [online] these days.

Eleven pages later, I guarantee you most of the people in this thread won't have learned a thing or have an introspective moment about this.
Everyone wants everything to neatly fit their preconceived narrative to such a extent that nuance cant exist. You’re correct that most wont learn a damn thing from any of this
 

Alice

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,704
Telling people they're gaslighting others over a difference in perspective and art interpretation, hoo, what a fucking ride...

I raised more than eyebrow at the comic in the beginning, too, and was ready to just label it as transphobic and be done with it. That changes though, when one considers the context, and looks at the guy's other works, especially the one featuring that character. The real fuck up here was Adult Swim not delivering any sort of context, but this thread had devolded into dogpiling on the artist very, very quickly.

I understand how the isolated comic can be hurtful, I understand how one sees issues with the stereotypes, but rather than sticking to that very first hunch, I allowed context to change my evaluation of the content to something that isn't hurtful, or at least shouldn't necessarily be seen as such, I think that's okay, and just as valid a viewpoint as saying that it's harmful presented in such a way as Adult Swim did.

I wish this thead could have worked without people literally being at eachother's throats, I guess.
 
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Annatar86

Member
Jan 16, 2018
110
Everyone wants everything to neatly fit their preconceived narrative to such a extent that nuance cant exist. You’re correct that most wont learn a damn thing from any of this
I concur, I can see why the face impact of the OP could raise eyebrows but context matters, especially with some forms of art (see also Charlie Hebdo). I can also see that sometimes people are too impulsive (not sensitive like a previous poster suggests) and post an outraged reaction right away, but there should be an intermediate step of thought process in-between that seems lost on most users. Which is fine if you're 14, but I don't think that's the average user's age in here.

And that's not just for this thread. Off-topic has threads with this same impulsive reactions every single day.

I understand this sounds patronizing, but if you act like 14yo, expect to be treated that way. Being a safe place for minorities and progressive thought does not justify these hateful reactions imo.

Edit: the quoted post is just for the "I concur" part. Obviously
 

ElBoxyBrown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,183
Telling people they're gaslighting others over a difference in perspective and art interpretation, hoo, what a fucking ride...

I raised more than eyebrow at the comic in the beginning, too, and was ready to just label it as transphobic and be done with it. That changes though, when one considers the context, and looks at the guy's other works, especially the one featuring that character. The real fuck up here was Adult Swim not delivering any sort of context, but this thread had devolded into dogpiling on the artist very, very quickly.

I understand how the isolated comic can be hurtful, I understand how one sees issues with the stereotypes, but rather than sticking to that very first hunch, I allowed context to change my evaluation of the content to something that isn't hurtful, or at least shouldn't be seen as such, I think that's okay, and just as valid a viewpoint as saying that it's harmful presented in such a way as Adult Swim did.

I wish this thead could have worked without people literally being at eachother's throats, I guess.
well, the post right before the person above you isn't helping the tone of this thread at all. At some point threads like these give off a weird vibe to make hot takes on the state of progressive discussion. And they're usually done in bad faith.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,290
It should be noted that the Adult Swim Twitter does not reflect all employees.

Here's Toonami director Jason DeMarco responding to it.

 

Alice

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,704
well, the post right after the person above you isn't helping the tone of this thread at all.
What's the problem with what I said?


I concur, I can see why the face impact of the OP could raise eyebrows but context matters, especially with some forms of art (see also Charlie Hebdo). I can also see that sometimes people are too impulsive (not sensitive like a previous poster suggests) and post an outraged reaction right away, but there should be an intermediate step of thought process in-between that seems lost on most users. Which is fine if you're 14, but I don't think that's the average user's age in here.

And that's not just for this thread. Off-topic has threads with this same impulsive reactions every single day.

I understand this sounds patronizing, but if you act like 14yo, expect to be treated that way. Being a safe place for minorities and progressive thought does not justify these hateful reactions imo.

Edit: the quoted post is just for the "I concur" part. Obviously
It's perfectly fine to be upset by something that's hurtful at face value, that has nothing to do with someone's age. WTF is with the ageisms and accusations of impulsive and hatefulness?
 

Nora

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,287
this thread should be used as evidence that people should be taught like, ANY degree of media literacy. it's very, very easy to read that first comic as transphobic. I would say that it's the easiest possible interpretation. Context from OTHER comics by the same artist does nothing to make this comic in isolation not transphobic, regardless of intent. Especially when that other context isn't provided.

When in the end people think the characters are meant to represent trans people, then yeah, it doesn't matter. Trans people are still hurt by it. Transphobes are still making fun of trans people for being hurt by it. Hell, the latter actually feel more validated to make fun of trans people offended by this because of there being reason to believe the intent may not be transphobic.

Meanwhile people who don't care give them even more validation as they join in on saying people are just outraged. (For example: literally the post above this one) As if the only ones who get mad are other cis people who aren't actually affected. Shit like this does actually affect transgender people, we constantly see jokes like the original comic except intentionally aimed at us. And seeing that so often feels pretty terrible.

An accidental wound is still a wound.
Also all of this.

Cishets, please, for the love of god, listen to trans people. You only need to look at the replies to the tweet to see that this is harmful.
 
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