Adults getting angry about new cartoons being aimed at kids

[Polioliolio]

You're all drinking koolaid. You hear a couple loud voices and can't wait to belittle the idea of these man children who criticize cartoons, as if to say 'hey, I'm not one of those people, I'm not a man child, look at me'

Your op is all over the place. Like what does 'why can't kids today be allowed their own cartoons' even mean, when you say that? This actually sounds like an argument against bringing back the same old tired franchises over and over and over again. How about some quality original stuff? Usually people complain about cartoons when they are lower in quality, right?

We can all agree that Batman the Animated Series is pretty great, and we can probably also agree that all the recent animated features based on that show have been low budget and not very good.

Or how about those new powerpuff girls shows? I didn't watch them, but I trust fans of the original show (which was quite good) to be able to call out a lower quality cartoon.

There's this notion that things made for kids should be garbage, or that it's okay if it's garbage. Kids aren't completely stupid and deserve a little more credit.

And you realize that the people who make these new cartoons aren't kids trying to express themselves, but are 30-40 year old men trying to make money, right? It's the same shit it's always been. I think it's just fine to criticize or call out low quality when you see it.

 

[Maurice Hamblin]

The internet would be such a better place if people recognized when something isn't for them and moved on from it.

But the amount of time and energy spent talking about these things under the guise of "discussion" and "analysis" is quite sad and unfortunate to me. It creates so much unneeded stress and anger which often gets directed toward the wrong people. I certainly used to engage in this and slip into it from time to time but it's definitely something I've grown out of. I wish more would do the same.

Complaining about cartoons is next level non-sense.

 

[VeePs]

Kids aren't completely stupid and deserve a little more credit.

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This.

Kids can handle plot lines lasting more than one or two episodes. They can handle grim futures and heroes against the odds. Things do not need to be dumb downed.

 

[HypedBeast]

I'd suggest actually going back and rewatching Teen Titans, like many action cartoons they take a ton of shortcuts on top of the framerate not being very smooth at all.
TTG's creators are hella aware of the limitations of 2d puppet animation. And they do a good job of working around those limitations with each scene having so much energy in it, (helps that the cast is so goddamn into it). Like, there's an insane amount of art assets for the show compared to similar kid shows that use that same style. And ofc it can't be understated how good the camera work is.

Also helps that everything in the show looks so clean. It's absolutely not as fluid as traditional animation but they're really good at working around their limitations and keeping things visually interesting.


See above.

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For 2D Puppet Animation, I'll admit it dosent look half bad (it could look a lot worse), but I still wouldnt say it looks gorgeous necessarily.
When it comes to comedy cartoons,I would describe Spongebob as looking gorgeous at times, but then again Spongebob is a lot less flat than TTGO.

 

[Crossing Eden]

TIL SU has bad character design... What are people smoking?

 

[HypedBeast]

The internet would be such a better place if people recognized when something isn't for them and moved on from it.

But the amount of time and energy spent talking about these things under the guise of "discussion" and "analysis" is quite sad and unfortunate to me. It creates so much unneeded stress and anger which often gets directed toward the wrong people. I certainly used to engage in this and slip into it from time to time but it's definitely something I've grown out of. I wish more would do the same.

Complaining about cartoons is next level non-sense.

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This. I certainly have my problems with western animation at times, but at the end of the day cartoon are suppose to be fun and the amount of vitriol and just overall toxicity of discussion online can take the fun right out of it. Complaining about shit is like the exact apposite of fun in my eyes.

I dont like the way Thundercats Roar looks... but Im not gonna harass the creators and tell people this is the result of a soy filled generation or some shit.

Im not interested in the new She- Ra cartoon, but I would never go and insult the creator.

Shit like this takes the fun out of cartoon and comics discussion. If people took this stuff way less seriously and way less personal, online discussion would be in a much better place.

 

[Rlan]

People using Teen Titans 2003 and Avatar The Last Airbender as quality shows while at the time people whined about their faux-anime aethetic as 'bad'

 

[SugarNoodles]

Are people asking specifically for cartoons to not be appropriate for kids?

Because if all this thread is about is that people should stop criticizing cartoons because kids don't know better then shut it down. The whole thing.

 

[Village]

OK I feel two ways about this

Uno ) There are some adults who get mad at some cartoons and cartoons being a way they don't like. I would argue that your disdain would be better spent, trying to combat the narrative that action cartoons ( which it is often the case ) have value and merit and try to get more cartoons like that made. The new thundercats cartoon wasn't gonna be replaced with one like the anime one that came out a few years prior, odds are it wasn't even on the table. You need to be talking to the people, NICELY AND NON THREATENING, that you and other adults, young adults and even teens... enjoy cartoons maybe should make more cartoons for you. Voice it to streaming services, you might get more imported anime, or more in house productions like voltron. Now I know some of these people just wanna yell at the children, or SJW's or... both. But some of them, like with young justice were kinda upset their show went away for toys and TTG came out and were trying to figure out how to voice their disdain for that. And for those people, I would say voice to the people who have the power to make these moves that those are moves with being made

Dos) there is some people who contribute criticism to nerds yelling about shit. It comes up in every star wars TLJ is brought up " Oh you must hate the TLJ " like that's a determining factor of a person or something. Sometimes it ain't about folks getting mad at diversity or getting mad at being old. Sometimes people say shit looks wack and voice criticism about shit looking wack. And I think there people too eager to brush off all criticism hey can as " nerds who care too much " , and I don't think that's a healthy mindset for criticism or a good environment to produce good art.

Completely agree with the OP - fine you don't like the art style, but taking to the internet and spending time ranting about kids' cartoons as an adult is a pretty tragic comment on your life and priorities.

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I also wanna talk about this, if someone talks about a cartoon because they think its bad? What's the issue here? There are people who do that all the time, I watch mothers basement sometimes he talks hot shit about anime meant for younger audiences because ...well it ain't great sometimes. Adults made that art, full grown ass adults. And as long you have context, and aren't rude and disrespectful about it, that art is subject to criticism. You shouldn't try and remove criticism because things are aimed at children, if something is wrong something is wrong. As long as you don't try to apply like real world adult logic where it doesn't need to be, what's the issue here?

 

[More_Badass]

Are people asking specifically for cartoons to not be appropriate for kids?

Because if all this thread is about is that people should stop criticizing cartoons because kids don't know better then shut it down. The whole thing.

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There's a big difference between criticizing cartoons for talking down to kids and whatnot or using "it's for kids" as a blanket excuse, and complaining about a current show because you have nostalgia for cartoons from when you were a kid or because you can't grasp that something is marketed and intended for children and not for 20/30 year olds

 

[atomsk eater]

I think someone can have valid complaints about media aimed at children. For instance I tend to dislike cartoons where the main character is kind of an asshat who makes things worse for people around them but never learns anything or receives comeuppance (some TTG episodes are like this). Or when characters who haven't done anything wrong get shit on constantly (for example, a lot of FHFIM episodes put Frankie or Mac through the wringer for no good reason). I also realize those might be things that trend well with kids, or things the people who make the cartoons personally like, or whatever. It's fine to not like character designs or art styles or the script/writing, but the amount of "why does she look like a boy" "SJWs are ruining cartoons and our kids!" rhetoric that I saw surrounding She-ra made my eyes roll out of my head.

Actually I have a question. Do most of you saying "This isn't for you" say the same about adaptations that make significant changes, as well?

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I also never have much of a problem with adaptations, well, adapting things. Yeah the movie might suck and have cut out stuff from a 600 page book, but I'm never fussed because the original thing that I loved is still there. Don't really get people who are on about how reboots, adaptations, remakes etc killed their childhood.

 

[SugarNoodles]

There's a big difference between criticizing cartoons for talking down to kids and whatnot or using "it's for kids" as a blanket excuse, and complaining about a current show because you have nostalgia for cartoons from when you were a kid or because you can't grasp that something is marketed and intended for children and not for 20/30 year olds

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Then why are they using older IP?

When you use existing IP, fans come along with it.

 

[More_Badass]

Then why are they using older IP?

When you use existing IP, fans come along with it.

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Just because something is a known property for multiple generations doesn't mean it's targeting all those generations. A new TMNT or Powerpuff Girls isn't targeting the 20-30 year olds who watched those shows when they were kids.

Just because you're a fan of something doesn't mean every version of that thing is catering to you

 

[Village]

Then why are they using older IP?

When you use existing IP, fans come along with it.

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To be fair I think fans of a thing should have the common sense to understand not every interpretation is intended for them.

For example, I like sonic games and comics and stuff. Sonic boom the cartoon, was not for me. I can fully acknowledge that and understand that premise. Now, do I still think the cartoon isn't great? Yeah. Do I have myriad criticisms about how its actually pretty poor compared to its contemporaries and tried survive off of being linked to a property and it wasn't that great? Yes. Am I going be upset its not literally sonic adventure 2? No, its not what its supposed to be and people should get that pretty easy.

Now I know this get muddled with properties like thundercats that basically don't exist for long stretches of time, and then pop up with a thing that isn't even for you. And I can get on some level how that can be... annoying. That said instead of being mad at that animation studio, why not voice to the people who arbitrarily decided you don't like dumb action cartoons anymore, that you still do , a bunch of you do and are willing to pay money for them. And maybe they might make some. Netflix is doing that exact thing

 

[Deleted member 19218]

The Labo instantly comes to mind. People hated on that because it was too child friendly, but that's the thing, it is aimed for kids like these cartoons. It's gross how entitled people can be.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Then why are they using older IP?

When you use existing IP, fans come along with it.

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Typically the people working on reimaginations of old IP are fans of the original.

 

[Anth0ny]

batman tas spoiled the 90s kids


they had like a million dollar budget every episode and had grown men crying as they wrote those scripts

hard to compete with that

 

[Antrax]

This is literally every single Pokémon thread on the gaming side. People need to start understanding when they're no longer the target demographic. Simple as that. When something I grew up with us clearly no longer for me then I move the fuck on or enjoy the old stuff. Simple as that

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Good example. People want these games to have Dark Souls difficulty when they're games for kids. The combat and catching and all that are never going to get turned into some crazy JRPG system because that's not the point.

People really need to just accept that not everything is made for them.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

Also anyone lamenting the shows of yester-year should actually watch he Duck Tales reboot

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PREACH. The DuckTales reboot and Tangled The Animated Series are both ridiculously well done. I'm also looking forward to Infinity Train coming out next year.

 

[808s & Villainy]

People using Teen Titans 2003 and Avatar The Last Airbender as quality shows while at the time people whined about their faux-anime aethetic as 'bad'

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Both shows were liked at the time. And faux anime styles for American cartoons predated those anyway

Good example. People want these games to have Dark Souls difficulty when they're games for kids. The combat and catching and all that are never going to get turned into some crazy JRPG system because that's not the point.

People really need to just accept that not everything is made for them.

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And here comes the outlandish claims found in every Pokemon thread. No, people wanted the same difficulty and freedom the games had before. You don't help your argument by making up exaggerated claims that were never said

 

[Rlan]

Both shows were liked at the time. And faux anime styles for American cartoons predated those anyway

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Teen Titans got a HUGE amount of flack for not being DCAU Titans spinoff. "Living in a Giant T? This thing's for kids! It doesn't take itself seriously enough! It's not DCAU canon!". Not saying they wern't EVENTUALLY popular once people got over themselves.

He-Man and Thundercats have tried the gritty reboot. Let them try the goofy version. I mean Adventure Time is Goofy but also dark as hell too.

 

[thefro]

Reboots either need to respect/incorporate what was good about the original show and/or have a fresh take on things. Just shoehorning in characters and totally changing the spirit of the show to fit whatever is deemed popular is where the reboots get into trouble.

Cartoons were always aimed at kids.

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Theatrical cartoon shorts were aimed at a wide audience since they were attached to feature films. You'd go to the movies and see a news reel, some shorts, maybe a serial film before the main feature in the 20s/30s/40s.

 

[PhazonBlonde]

Then why are they using older IP?

When you use existing IP, fans come along with it.

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If you're a 40+ year old man, I don't think you're the audience She-Ra is trying to capture, sorry to say

 

[Bernkastel]

I just don't like the art style.

 

[Pokemaniac]

While I think some people take things too far, there is something to be said about how there's been a lot of simplified comedy focused reboots of shows that didn't originally lean that far in that direction originally. It at least feels like there just isn't as much non-comedy focused animation (at least coming from the US) anymore.

This is literally every single Pokémon thread on the gaming side. People need to start understanding when they're no longer the target demographic. Simple as that. When something I grew up with us clearly no longer for me then I move the fuck on or enjoy the old stuff. Simple as that

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This is a weird thing to bring up when Let's Go is heavily targeting lapsed Pokémon fans. Not just them, of course, they're also trying to aim at even younger kids than usual, but they're very clearly trying to rope in lapsed fans with nostalgia.

 

[Joeytj]

In this age of animated series catering to a wide variety of demographics and age groups, it's understandable some people will be disappointed when a cartoon with an interesting premise doesn't exactly turn out to be made for them, but yeah, too many adults waste a lot of energy complaining about things not meant for them, at least not just for them.

EDIT: And no, it's not about having to like everything or that there aren't bad cartoons for kids or adults, but "too kiddie" is rarely a valid complaint.

 

[TheChuggernaut]

You're all drinking koolaid. You hear a couple loud voices and can't wait to belittle the idea of these man children who criticize cartoons, as if to say 'hey, I'm not one of those people, I'm not a man child, look at me'

Your op is all over the place. Like what does 'why can't kids today be allowed their own cartoons' even mean, when you say that? This actually sounds like an argument against bringing back the same old tired franchises over and over and over again. How about some quality original stuff? Usually people complain about cartoons when they are lower in quality, right?

We can all agree that Batman the Animated Series is pretty great, and we can probably also agree that all the recent animated features based on that show have been low budget and not very good.

Or how about those new powerpuff girls shows? I didn't watch them, but I trust fans of the original show (which was quite good) to be able to call out a lower quality cartoon.

There's this notion that things made for kids should be garbage, or that it's okay if it's garbage. Kids aren't completely stupid and deserve a little more credit.

And you realize that the people who make these new cartoons aren't kids trying to express themselves, but are 30-40 year old men trying to make money, right? It's the same shit it's always been. I think it's just fine to criticize or call out low quality when you see it.

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So how do you feel about Teen Titans Go? It's a show that by all accounts seems to actually be pretty good. Kids love it, and most critics seem alright with it too, but people on the internet are still complaining about it to this day.

 

[Falconbox]

I guess my thing is that the cartoons I grew up with weren't really "violent and covered in blood" like OP says, but they just looked more like they were for "all ages" in their design.

Shows involving humans often designed the people to actually look like people with the correct proportions.

I'm not angry, but it does disappoint me sometimes to see so much less detail in animation and designs than we had 20, 30, or 40 years ago. You'd think with so much animation being done on computers rather than being hand drawn, shows would be more likely to have detailed characters.

(Some shows have largely retained realistic looks though. Most Batman animated series have, for example.)

 

[TaterTots]

I don't believe this is restricted to a certain generation. I know people who are nearly 20 years older than me and talk shit about the cartoons I've watched growing up.

 

[SieteBlanco]

That's not how any of the new TMNT shows has looked.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I'm not angry, but it does disappoint me sometimes to see so much less detail in animation and designs than we had 20, 30, or 40 years ago. You'd think with so much animation being done on computers rather than being hand drawn, shows would be more likely to have detailed characters.

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Uh what? You realize that the modern versions have WAY better animation and that part of that is due to the characters having simpler designs?

 

[Falconbox]

That's not how any of the new TMNT shows has looked.

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This wasn't from a series, but a Nickelodeon SDCC short film IIRC. The point stands that we still seem to often be regressing.

 

[Deleted member 11626]

While I think some people take things too far, there is something to be said about how there's been a lot of simplified comedy focused reboots of shows that didn't originally lean that far in that direction originally. It at least feels like there just isn't as much non-comedy focused animation (at least coming from the US) anymore.


This is a weird thing to bring up when Let's Go is heavily targeting lapsed Pokémon fans. Not just them, of course,they're also trying to aim at even younger kids than usual, but they're very clearly trying to rope in lapsed fans with nostalgia.

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Which is what this thread and my complaint about the fan base was about. People are trashing the simplifications like they're still part of the target demo when they're not. If you didn't grow up with the original games and you aren't young and just getting into the series, Let's Go might not be for you. Which is fine except we have 1000+ posts in more than one Pokémon thread...many complaining about a game that isn't targeting or being developed with them in mind. Much easier to move on and wait for the next game. Feels like all the Labo complaints, just on a larger scale lol

 

[crienne]

Like most nostalgia-based anger, people seem to remember the best parts, and the quality, of the cartoons they watched as kids. There were a lot of cartoons out back then, and very few had season's worth of good episodes. It's easy to remember the good, not the average-quality filler.

As for art styles, those evolve and I understand not liking certain ones, especially if in a reboot, but I don't like seeing people call them bad or "offensive to their senses".

It comes down to this. New cartoons aren't made for you as much as you think they are, and if you want to relive your childhood memories of that cartoon, go watch the original.

 

[Falconbox]

Uh what? You realize that the modern versions have WAY better animation and that part of that is due to the characters having simpler designs?

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I'm don't mean animation in terms of movement, but in the physical act of drawing the characters.

Yes, I know shows "move" more because of the simpler designs, but I'm allowed to absolutely despise simpler designs. I'll take the tradeoff to get better designed characters any day of the week.

 

[SieteBlanco]

This wasn't from a series, but a Nickelodeon SDCC short film IIRC. The point stands that we still seem to often be regressing.

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The new TMNT show has far better animation than anything else the the franchise, even if it's slightly hollow otherwise. The designs are also much more complex than you're making them out to be.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I'm don't mean animation in terms of movement, but in the physical act of drawing the characters.

Yes, I know shows "move" more because of the simpler designs, but I'm allowed to absolutely despise simpler designs. I'll take the tradeoff to get better designed characters any day of the week.

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How is it better designed characters if they all have near identical silhouettes? The thing is less absolutely means more in the long run of television animation. The key features stick out, the different silhouettes add more, etc.

 

[MasterSummerSmith462]

You're supposed to move into anime as you get older...

 

[crienne]

I'm don't mean animation in terms of movement, but in the physical act of drawing the characters.

Yes, I know shows "move" more because of the simpler designs, but I'm allowed to absolutely despise simpler designs. I'll take the tradeoff to get better designed characters any day of the week.

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I'd rather have fluid and creative animation, and find most of the cartoons I grew up too stiff and poorly animated to enjoy as much as I wish I could.

Now, I'm not saying you personally have done this, but if you dislike the style and feel the need to shit on people that do enjoy it, just stay quiet and move on.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Good example. People want these games to have Dark Souls difficulty when they're games for kids. The combat and catching and all that are never going to get turned into some crazy JRPG system because that's not the point.

People really need to just accept that not everything is made for them.

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Is expecting the level of difficulty not to go down significantly over time also an unreasonable expectation? Because that's what the complaints are largely about. While Gen VII was sort of approaching a happy medium in terms of battle difficulty before Let's Go threw that all out the window, the difficulty has been notably dropping in both battles and exploration.

 

[crienne]

How is it better designed characters if they all have near identical silhouettes? The thing is less absolutely means more in the long run of television animation. The key features stick out, the different silhouettes add more, etc.

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Yes! Creative silhouettes mean so much to my enjoyment of a style.

Modern animation also tends to follow the basic principles of animation closer than the ones in the 80s and 90s (excluding things like Tiny Toons or Animaniacs).

 

[Falconbox]

How is it better designed characters if they all have near identical silhouettes? The thing is less absolutely means more in the long run of television animation. The key features stick out, the different silhouettes add more, etc.

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More detail. Like I said, I prefer highly detailed realistic looking characters over something I could find at a county fair's caricature booth.

 

[SaviourMK2]

I've realized this after the whole Magic School Bus reboot and learned that I'm not a target demographic and shouldn't be judgemental of it.

That being said Pokemon Sun and Moon is still garbage tier anime.

 

[SieteBlanco]

The newest Spiderman show and TCGo look very bland, Rise of the TMNT deserves better than to be grouped with them.

 

[Antrax]

Is expecting the level of difficulty not to go down significantly over time also an unreasonable expectation? Because that's what the complaints are largely about. While Gen VII was sort of approaching a happy medium in terms of battle difficulty before Let's Go threw that all out the window, the difficulty has been notably dropping in both battles and exploration.

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Other than maybe tutorials, I find them all the same difficulty. Which is to say mildly in the beginning and then you face roll by the 3rd gym leader.

I personally think the "getting easier" takes just mean the people playing got older and could game it better. Having just replayed Yellow, the only tough thing in it was dealing with the awful glitched moves and whatnot.

 

[More_Badass]

I guess my thing is that the cartoons I grew up with weren't really "violent and covered in blood" like OP says, but they just looked more like they were for "all ages" in their design.

Shows involving humans often designed the people to actually look like people with the correct proportions.

I'm not angry, but it does disappoint me sometimes to see so much less detail in animation and designs than we had 20, 30, or 40 years ago. You'd think with so much animation being done on computers rather than being hand drawn, shows would be more likely to have detailed characters.

(Some shows have largely retained realistic looks though. Most Batman animated series have, for example.)

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More detailed doesn't inherently equal better though. For example, I grew up with 90s Spider-Man but that show had terrible animation. It pales in comparison to the far more cohesive Spectacular Spider-Man look and its much much better animation.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Yes! Creative silhouettes mean so much to my enjoyment of a style.

Modern animation also tends to follow the basic principles of animation closer than the ones in the 80s and 90s (excluding things like Tiny Toons or Animaniacs).

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Exactly.

More detail. Like I said, I prefer highly detailed realistic looking characters over something I could find at a county fair's caricature booth

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More detail is not the end all be all of what makes a character design good, quite the opposite.

 

[Falconbox]

More detailed doesn't equal better though. For example, I grew up with 90s Spider-Man but that show had terrible animation. It pales in comparison to the far more cohesive Spectacular Spider-Man look and its much much better animation

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To each their own. I prefer the look of the 90s show, even if Spectacular allowed the characters to do a few more flips in combat.

But like I said, we're at a point in computer design where we should be able to get both without having to regress to simpler looking characters.

More detail is not the end all be all of what makes a character design good, quite the opposite.

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No, it's not. But it's the most important thing to me in an animated show (besides writing).

 

[HypedBeast]

I guess my thing is that the cartoons I grew up with weren't really "violent and covered in blood" like OP says, but they just looked more like they were for "all ages" in their design.

Shows involving humans often designed the people to actually look like people with the correct proportions.

I'm not angry, but it does disappoint me sometimes to see so much less detail in animation and designs than we had 20, 30, or 40 years ago. You'd think with so much animation being done on computers rather than being hand drawn, shows would be more likely to have detailed characters.

(Some shows have largely retained realistic looks though. Most Batman animated series have, for example.)

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Sure there a little more detailed, but the animation in all of those shows on the left with exception of the intros are fucking trash. There is a reason why the 70s-80s is considered a dark time for TV animation, far too many cheap, toy commercials that barely animated.

 

[Crossing Eden]

No, it's not. But it's the most important thing to me in an animated show (besides writing).

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I struggle to think about how could possibly enjoy animated shows or animation at all if character detail is what they're looking for when that almost always results in very poor animation due to the amount of shortcuts that have to be taken in comparison to strong simple designs. You'll notice a trend among the most popular animated media is how simple the majority of characters look.That's part of why they're so memorable.