So do you hate stuff like Tom and Jerry, Looney Tunes, and older cartoons since they made their designs simple so they could actually animate them well?
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Adults getting angry about new cartoons being aimed at kids
- Thread starter Cybersai
- Start date
That's kind of disengenous and reductive, no? And again, you're conflating "simpler" with regression. That Spectacular has a different style than the 90s show doesn't make it a regression if everything about the show's style is improved over the older style. I loved 90s Spidey then but that doesn't change the fact that it was a messy mishmash of aesthetics with poor animation
People complaining about 2012 tmnt is something I will never understand =|
Yeah spetacular does not have an All Ages design ...
That would be nightmare fuel if I was a kid xD
Yeah spetacular does not have an All Ages design ...
That would be nightmare fuel if I was a kid xD
Wellll as a kid any cartoon I came across with real character development and ongoing storylines was super mindblowing. Stuff like Mysterious Cities of Gold, Robotech, the X Men cartoon. They were absolutely my favourites. For comedies it was Ren and Stimpy and The Simpsons. I guess I was a 30 year old trapped in an 8 year olds body?
And I struggle to understand why someone would settle for less detail. But to each their own.
And on your last point, there's plenty of animated shows that many consider to be all-time greats that don't completely simplify their entire designs.
King of the Hill, Batman The Animated Series, The Boondocks, Avatar The Last Airbender, Korra, Futurama, Dragon Ball Z (actually, lots of Japanese anime features heavily detailed characters and scenery), Archer, X-Men, Beavis & Butt-Head, Scooby Doo Where Are You, and many more.
People complaining about 2012 tmnt is something I will never understand =|
Yeah spetacular does not have an All Ages design ...
That would be nightmare fuel if I was a kid xD
There's plenty of reasons why. From a design perspective it just works better.
LITERALLY every single one of those shows have simple easily identifiable character designs.
Last edited:
I would argue against not - the primary reason to use an IP over 20 years old is give people a preconception of what the product is like, a preconception that would most likely be fueled by prior products. It may not need to "cater" to a person (in the context of this thread I'd in fact say the term "catering" is being abused, as if any single demand of an older fan is somehow unfeasible or unrealistic when certain well-done reboots actually HAVE respected older fans well and have their support for it.) but if the people lured in feel like they pulled a bait-and-switch, of course people may find it disappointing. That's why, to bring some examples way older than the current day, Scrappy Doo became a hated character ("That mutt replaced Freddy AND Velma!"), the first Tom and Jerry movie bombed (No one wanted Tom and Jerry to settle their differences to resolve some completely different plot about saving a girl when Tom and Jerry's endless feud is a core element of their characters), and no TMNT villain is ever as much a mainstay as the Shredder no matter how much a new writer tries.
Earlier there was an ERA thread about a YouTuber who proposed that public domain-based movies aren't performing as well because they are way too unfaithful to the source material.
While the reasoning there is wildly different, I think the logic can apply pretty well to a product ~20 years old where the core elements resonated strongly with it's fans, and several attempted reboots either succeeded (Voltron: LD, especially in contrast with prior Voltron reboots) or bombed (What was that Reboot reboot named again...? Ah, and PPG2016 I guess.) because of how well they respected those roots when applying their changes.
If the roots are respected, even drastically-changed shows can turn out to be well-liked by the fans who would otherwise demand purity. Batman Beyond is probably one of the best examples of this I can think of because it's a show where the concept or a brief plot synopsis sounds like a really bad spinoff idea. (Batman, but he's a TEENAGER IN THE FUTURE! Also most the rogue's gallery is completely different and no Joker until the movie) But it's one of the best Batman cartoons and a worthy followup to Batman: TAS. Of course, it helps that it was written by the BTAS guys, so they already knew how to respect source material.
(It might also be worth mentioning that people don't really throw a fuss about Adam West's Batman's comedic tone, though that may be a grandfather-clause or a "What's what was needed to get it on TV then" thing)
This isn't really to say anything about the shows most vocally complained about recently, mind. (I am not enough into either Thundercats or She-Ra to follow the new shows, although I find the "boyish face" complaint amusing when I thought the original She-Ra always had that "problem".)
We need more kids cartoons like avatar
I don't watch much anime but this is why I appreciate the anime scene
I don't watch much anime but this is why I appreciate the anime scene
Could this possibly be the worst opinion of all time?
I think it is.
Same reason why people can enjoy video games that don't have near-photorealistic graphics
A cohesive discernible style and good animations matter far more than detail when it comes to animation IMO. And stuff like Korra and Batman had big budgets so they didn't have to sacrifice detail for animation. 90s Spider-Man absolutely didn't have the budget for that. While Spectacular has a good balance that allows for good smooth animation and an expressive decently-detailed style
Not really. Sure, that could end up turning out amazing, but, without having any real details about it yet, it's just as likely it could end up only being better than Let's Go by virtue of having non-trivial new content.
The thing about Let's Go is that it's not an isolated example, it's just the latest in a disappointing trend. Game Freak is already disproportionately focused on the genwunner/(extremely) young kid audience in the last few releases. Until I see what Gen VIII (and perhaps more importantly Gen IX, since they'll have sales data for Let's Go by then) look, I'll remain concerned that Game Freak wants to cut anyone outside of those two groups out of their target audience entirely.
Like I said, Gen VII made large strides to correct this in terms of battles, but X and Y in particular had it so many enemy trainers (including Gym Leaders and Elite Four members!) had fewer Pokémon on their team than normal, which made things stupidly easy since it was the same gen Exp. Share was changed back into something closer to what it originally was before held items were a thing.
The maps are definitely simpler, though. In Gen VII there largely isn't anything even vaguely resembling a maze anymore outside of one or two optional areas. It's basically just corridors that sometimes get a bit twisty now.
Any art is subject to criticism sure, including kids' cartoons.
Issues about representation, the depiction of violence if it's in the cartoon, internal narratives - the same things you discuss using critical theory when criticising adult stuff.
Aesthetic discussion is that same - although again, the first question I always ask when thinking about kids' media (which as a parent I do a lot, and use my kids as an excuse to watch cartoons lol) is 'Do my kids like it?'. My daughter (8) rejected Batman TAS because 'It looks good, but I think it's too unhappy and violent', while my son eats up anything CGI but generally rejects cel animation (except Steven Universe and Star Vs the Forces of Evil) - so again, while the conversation is there to be had, generally speaking its very limited in scope and there are probably better conversations to be had elsewhere about animation aesthetics.
But that isn't what happens, is it? What happens is homophobia, sexism, 'SJW ruining it allllll!' BS and 'It wasn't as good as in my day!' or 'This isn't what I wanted wahhhh!!!' which is what I was getting at in the snippet you quoted.
Not even sure if I'm being trolled at this point. Not sure how any of the fairly realistic looking characters in this first compilation even remotely resemble something like the 2nd pic.
You might want to go back to my original comment and see the point I was trying to make.
There was a time there where everyone switched to flash animation to save money, but everyone was bad it using it and the technology wasn't up for the job. I don't know how anyone could look at that early flash stuff and think it was a better look than the hand animated stuff before it.
I think these days it's a lot more of a personal opinion, where kids are obviously going to pick the new thing that's being presented to them and all their friends.
I think these days it's a lot more of a personal opinion, where kids are obviously going to pick the new thing that's being presented to them and all their friends.
The old WB cartoons of the 1930s were very adult in both tone and content. Many were parodies or satires featuring the leading celebrities of the day in farcical situations.
That's basically the foundation of the entire tv anime industry. You get your 5 seconds of amazing animation to hook you, and then 26 minutes of shortcut taking that you're still kinda ok with as long as the stills look good.
I always feel the weird one out in these discussions because I was a kid that disliked art styles in shows or knew the writing was bad, and that some things were dumb down when it shouldn't have been. And I'm sure many people felt the same, especially during the 2005-2010 era when shows were starting to get very bad and people thought they were just losing interest in cartoons because they were getting older, but really it was just the shows thinking that anyone would watch what they produced.
Look at the most successful cartoons, they entice both kids and adults. They are well written even if some have butt and fart jokes, they are well animated, sometimes have great scores, and can either be episodic or have long stretching plotlines. There is a mix of everything, some people have preferences because there were great shows from their childhood and it hurts seeing a bad rendition of it. (Powerpuff Girls is a great example).
A temp-stand in Professor at my college made a great point:
"When a new entry or reboot is made and it's outright terrible, people like clamoring that it's ruining the entirety of everything because what you enjoyed then was good, splendid, and memorable. But one bad reboot doesn't ruin everything, you're going to look back and say 'Yeah that one sucked' but you are still left with a lot of good things from the original to enjoy, and maybe down the line, a reboot or sequel improves upon the original, or maybe it will fail again. But you will always have the good times the original content provided and nothing ruins that".
Look at the most successful cartoons, they entice both kids and adults. They are well written even if some have butt and fart jokes, they are well animated, sometimes have great scores, and can either be episodic or have long stretching plotlines. There is a mix of everything, some people have preferences because there were great shows from their childhood and it hurts seeing a bad rendition of it. (Powerpuff Girls is a great example).
A temp-stand in Professor at my college made a great point:
"When a new entry or reboot is made and it's outright terrible, people like clamoring that it's ruining the entirety of everything because what you enjoyed then was good, splendid, and memorable. But one bad reboot doesn't ruin everything, you're going to look back and say 'Yeah that one sucked' but you are still left with a lot of good things from the original to enjoy, and maybe down the line, a reboot or sequel improves upon the original, or maybe it will fail again. But you will always have the good times the original content provided and nothing ruins that".
LMAONot even sure if I'm being trolled at this point. Not sure how any of the fairly realistic looking characters in this first compilation even remotely resemble something like the 2nd pic.
You might want to go back to my original comment and see the point I was trying to make.
Bruh for one your avatar example is fucking fanart
Two you chose possible the worst example because SU can be really well anomated and beautiful.
It does actually, I actually watch a few youtube channels where the point is specifically that, actually.
Literally all of those are super well defined and follow standard character design principles.Not even sure if I'm being trolled at this point. Not sure how any of the fairly realistic looking characters in this first compilation even remotely resemble something like the 2nd pic.
You might want to go back to my original comment and see the point I was trying to make.
50s - 80s were definitely a period of low quality art-wise. Shrinking budgets, no idea what the audience was, and an overal sense that anything animated was only for kids.
Even Disney's features in the 70s and 80 suffered.
I'd say the 90s is when stuff started getting better again.
I was a kid in the 70s and I have no particular nostalgia glasses for the quality of the art at that time. Even then, reruns of older stuff like golden age WB or Max Fleischer stuff looked better than the stuff that was coming out new. There were notable exceptions (like Star Blazers aka Space Cruiser Yamato) but those were rare, and even those aren't as good as modern animation.
also where is that Avatar picture even from? is it a still from a photo shown in Korra or what?
I think part of the reason is because they are adapting old shows from these people's childhoods and them dumbing them down beyond what they were before when they were still kids shows.
I don't think those adults you mention are complaining about completely original shows made for kids today. Or maybe they are but I haven't seen it.
I don't think those adults you mention are complaining about completely original shows made for kids today. Or maybe they are but I haven't seen it.
Uh, the Batman thing that put it on the map and made it so iconic is precisely because it simplified the designs. Before TAS, most action stuff for kids was very detailed but unless handled by an expert japanese animation studio, suffered a lot because of the complicated details. Then they even simplified even further on Superman and the last season of TAS, then JL.
Anime in general is VERY simplified as well, by design. You will notice that the characters barely move their jaw when they talk, for instance, and is more about pauses, static poses with a few quick breaks of fast and nicely animated action sequences at best.
In terms of script? For the most part, yeah. But the 80s and early 90s had the advantage of a favorable exchange rate USD/YEN or larger budgets for some smooth japanese animation in American shows. From cheap studios like DIC to Disney and WB during the golden era of TV Animation, they all outsourced to studios like TMS with great looking results.
Really aside from 90's Xmen or BTAS, I don't think there's many animated show that were interesting to watch.
Shit like Ninja Turtles, HeMan, Thundercats or Scoobydoo were always terrible.
I can't fathom anyone looking at the looping backgrounds, off models and general shittiness of these cartoons with any kind of fondness, I hated nearly all of them (except maybe TMNT) back then when I was a kid and I don't think any current version could be worse than the craptacular results we got.
Maybe charadesign resonate with you more at the time but the animation was incredibly bad, I don't think I've seen anything outside of low budget CG shows that compare and EVEN these ones are more reliably animated (because you have to do additional work to be off model for 3D animation after all).
Spiderman in the 90s was the shit I would let the tv on because nothing else was there, the animation wasn't great, the storylines, the script and the VA were low quality too.
Everything I see from the remake of 90s show is better than the pisspoor shit we had, I'm actually jealous.
Shit like Ninja Turtles, HeMan, Thundercats or Scoobydoo were always terrible.
I can't fathom anyone looking at the looping backgrounds, off models and general shittiness of these cartoons with any kind of fondness, I hated nearly all of them (except maybe TMNT) back then when I was a kid and I don't think any current version could be worse than the craptacular results we got.
Maybe charadesign resonate with you more at the time but the animation was incredibly bad, I don't think I've seen anything outside of low budget CG shows that compare and EVEN these ones are more reliably animated (because you have to do additional work to be off model for 3D animation after all).
Spiderman in the 90s was the shit I would let the tv on because nothing else was there, the animation wasn't great, the storylines, the script and the VA were low quality too.
Everything I see from the remake of 90s show is better than the pisspoor shit we had, I'm actually jealous.
Talking about Pokemon, the show now is so much better than it has ever been.
That shit was embarrassing to watch in the 90s and now you've got a show full of energy and all.
It can be appreciated over just being a toys show now!
OP there's already a Jordan Peterson thread elsewhere.
Also yeah same thing with Star Wars and Marvel movies, definitively children's movies that people get mad at because they're nerds
Also yeah same thing with Star Wars and Marvel movies, definitively children's movies that people get mad at because they're nerds
I would say it's ridiculous, but I was one of the people getting super annoyed by that new powerpuff girls series while it was on... That's the only example I can think of though. Hell, shows like Pokémon got infinitely better once they got redesigned into what they are now.
I just don't like the art style.
I wasnt a fan of Scoobys new artstyle either. Specially after Mystery Incorporated and the old classics.
But holy shit is it good and one of the best Scooby-shows ever. Even Daphne is amazing and has a character!
Amazing show.
A good animated show, even if it's aimed at kids can have elements that teens/adults can enjoy. Usually that's not the intention of whomever is funding the show, because the bottom line is viewership at a specific time is all that matters to them. It's the the producers/showrunners, who are adults who sometimes want to put value in for them and a different audience, and as that target demo aged, they still loved those shows. Some of those toy shows from the 80s, especially those by Hasbro did really well in this regard because they went to Marvel Comics to write backstories, characters and even some of the shows. Especially Transformers and GI GI joe. That sort of cross appeal is smart business, if you want to keep your brand going.
I'm fine with redesigns, I just want them to be good. I guess that's still me needing to be satisfied, though.
Raph is too fucking big. Other than that new turtles are fine to me. New April is awesome.
New She-Ra design looks great.
New Thundercats look awful.
Shorten Shaggy and Fred's chins and I'd have no complaints about those designs.
Raph is too fucking big. Other than that new turtles are fine to me. New April is awesome.
New She-Ra design looks great.
New Thundercats look awful.
Shorten Shaggy and Fred's chins and I'd have no complaints about those designs.
I don't mind Teen Titans Go even after watching the original Teen Titans. I also liked the Thundercats reboot from a few years ago. This new Thundercats thing [that's all I can call it], they need to burn it with fire. It looks bad.
For the old people here
How did you feel about the recent Rocky and Bullwinkle or Mr Peobody and Sherman?
How did you feel about the recent Rocky and Bullwinkle or Mr Peobody and Sherman?
That looks very good, not sure I'd ever want to buy toys for it but I'd watch that show.
At this point I can't say I ever cared about Thundercats before this actually.
Those shows did not have power fantasy male bodies or objectified female bodies in their designs, so I guess no MRAs will complain about any reboot of those heh.
Anyway, in my country neither of those were a thing, even tough maybe they were animated here in Mexico, but I did like the Mr Peabody and Sherman movie.
