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AEW Dynamite |OT| Wednesday Nitro - Live on TNT, Wed. @ 8 ET

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,713
Yep. Yellow flag is up for me now. Expecting a ratings flip next week if NXT leans in harder into SD/Raw wrestlers.

AEW needs to stay the course and make tweaks here and there, but I think they’re killing it overall.
NXT needs to go in for the kill now and announce some crossbrand matches for their show next week.
 

The Climaxan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
520
NC-USA
Bringing up AEW exceeding expectations is missing the point. That just means they underestimated the initial interest. They started out with 1.4 million viewers. That is 1.4 million people who were interested the product, with almost half deciding they weren't into it. That isn't good. In fact, it's awful. What AEW/TNT expected isn't relevant to the issue - nobody is talking cancellation (yet). The issue is it had relatively great interest to start, and that interest has heavily waned. That means they're doing something wrong.
It's been a month. Calm down. Cultivating and sustaining a religious audience is a marathon, not a sprint. The fact they exceeded expectations out of the gate absolutely matters, and all indications are that TNT is happy as shit. They have a non-NBA program in the top 10 that can bring eyeballs to their network year round.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
655
The expectations are entirely relevant. As long as they are meeting TNT’s expectations, the show is viable and will continue. They shouldn’t be looked down on because they vastly overshoot reasonable expectations with their first week.
 

Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,678
In the end both brands have to keep at it. It's been good shows week after week. The closer the Numbers the better. But yeah I want them up. For both.
 

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
6,859
It's been a month. Calm down. Cultivating and sustaining a religious audience is a marathon, not a sprint. The fact they exceeded expectations out of the gate absolutely matters, and all indications are that TNT is happy as shit. They have a non-NBA program in the top 10 that can bring eyeballs to their network year round.
It exceeding expectations is relevant when it comes to staying on air. It isn't relevant in terms of justifying losing almost half its initial audience. If you're running a show, and you lose almost half your viewers over the course of a month, and you AREN'T concerned and wondering if tweaks need to be made, then that product isn't likely to see the success possible.
 

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
6,859
The expectations are entirely relevant. As long as they are meeting TNT’s expectations, the show is viable and will continue. They shouldn’t be looked down on because they vastly overshoot reasonable expectations with their first week.
Again, nobody is talking about worrying about cancellation.
 

Matticers

Member
Oct 28, 2017
249
Bringing up AEW exceeding expectations is missing the point. That just means they underestimated the initial interest. They started out with 1.4 million viewers. That is 1.4 million people who were interested the product, with almost half deciding they weren't into it. That isn't good. In fact, it's awful. What AEW/TNT expected isn't relevant to the issue - nobody is talking cancellation (yet). The issue is it had relatively great interest to start, and that interest has heavily waned. That means they're doing something wrong.
It can very easily climb back up again. Lets not forget that AEW is basically in it's infancy. The company and the show has a long way to go. They will gain fans as more people learn about it and continue to come back each week and as they sign popular wrestlers when their WWE contracts are up. If they can add guys like Scurll and The Revival, that's no joke. But the latter won't be available for another... six months or so. It's the long haul. Unless the ratings tank and they're around 500k or 600k sometime soon, I'm not going to worry much.

Of course NXT was going to get a big boost this week and probably until after Survivor Series. It would have been pathetic if they didn't. We'll see how things shake out heading into 2020.
 

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
6,859
It can very easily climb back up again. Lets not forget that AEW is basically in it's infancy. The company and the show has a long way to go. They will gain fans as more people learn about it and continue to come back each week and as they sign popular wrestlers when their WWE contracts are up. If they can add guys like Scurll and The Revival, that's no joke. But the latter won't be available for another... six months or so. It's the long haul. Unless the ratings tank and they're around 500k or 600k sometime soon, I'm not going to worry much.

Of course NXT was going to get a big boost this week and probably until after Survivor Series. It would have been pathetic if they didn't. We'll see how things shake out heading into 2020.
Sadly at this point, dropping to 600k is no longer a tank. At the show's current trajectory, that could happen in a week or two. lol
 

Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,678
It can very easily climb back up again. Lets not forget that AEW is basically in it's infancy. The company and the show has a long way to go. They will gain fans as more people learn about it and continue to come back each week and as they sign popular wrestlers when their WWE contracts are up. If they can add guys like Scurll and The Revival, that's no joke. But the latter won't be available for another... six months or so. It's the long haul. Unless the ratings tank and they're around 500k or 600k sometime soon, I'm not going to worry much.

Of course NXT was going to get a big boost this week and probably until after Survivor Series. It would have been pathetic if they didn't. We'll see how things shake out heading into 2020.
I am curious to see if NXT can hang after Survivor series.

Then again you have Rumble and Mania coming up so we shall see how that pans out.

I don't know what this means for Takeover if NXT stars will now be on main PPVs.
 

GillianSeed79

Member
Oct 27, 2017
657
Eh...I mean one of their big problems is that in order to watch Dynamite in the U.S., you need either a cable subscription or some sort cable streaming package, the cheapest of which that has DVR capability is $30 for SlingTV. I cut the cord years ago, and I'm not signing up for cable. I've considered signing up for Sling TV, but you can find Dynamite pretty much in its entirety on Youtube not long after it airs, or at the very least, the individual matches. If AEW had a NJPW World type streaming service in the U.S. or a WWE Network streaming service in U.S. I could sign up for without needing a VPN, I'd do so in a heartbeat. I can't really justify paying $30/per month for one basic cable channel that I'll only watch one show on. I think a better indicator will be how their PPV numbers are maybe.
 

pazinyo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,612
Barnsley, UK
It exceeding expectations is relevant when it comes to staying on air. It isn't relevant in terms of justifying losing almost half its initial audience. If you're running a show, and you lose almost half your viewers over the course of a month, and you AREN'T concerned and wondering if tweaks need to be made, then that product isn't likely to see the success possible.
What tweaks do you believe need to be made?
 

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
6,859
What tweaks do you believe need to be made?
I don't know, as I love product. If I had to take a guess, I'd say it needs more large wrestlers with a presence. I don't think the casual viewer is into these guys that look like they were found working at a gas station before the show started - or that look like they've never seen the inside of a gym.
 

Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,678
Eh...I mean one of their big problems is that in order to watch Dynamite in the U.S., you need either a cable subscription or some sort cable streaming package, the cheapest of which that has DVR capability is $30 for SlingTV. I cut the cord years ago, and I'm not signing up for cable. I've considered signing up for Sling TV, but you can find Dynamite pretty much in its entirety on Youtube not long after it airs, or at the very least, the individual matches. If AEW had a NJPW World type streaming service in the U.S. or a WWE Network streaming service in U.S. I could sign up for without needing a VPN, I'd do so in a heartbeat. I can't really justify paying $30/per month for one basic cable channel that I'll only watch one show on. I think a better indicator will be how their PPV numbers are maybe.
If AEW was on Hulu I would see it. Not Live Hulu but 5.99 day after Hulu.

So right now I watch NXT on Hulu day after, AEW Dark on You Tube, and Smackdown free over the air. That for me is the cheapest way to consume those two.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,000
Bringing up AEW exceeding expectations is missing the point. That just means they underestimated the initial interest. They started out with 1.4 million viewers. That is 1.4 million people who were interested the product, with almost half deciding they weren't into it. That isn't good. In fact, it's awful. What AEW/TNT expected isn't relevant to the issue - nobody is talking cancellation (yet). The issue is it had relatively great interest to start, and that interest has heavily waned. That means they're doing something wrong.
This makes the assumption that people weren't just interested as a one-off. Even well-executed wrestling is still wrestling. Maybe some people watched, realized the entire vibe wasn't for them, and checked out. I think they can execute better (this last week was better than any episode they've done previously), but ultimately if you change too much you risk the fanbase you do have tuning out.

Don't just assume you have people like me 'cause "I'm a core fan". If you try to get too old school just to get the 50+ audience up I'll dip, and others will too.
 

The Climaxan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
520
NC-USA
It exceeding expectations is relevant when it comes to staying on air. It isn't relevant in terms of justifying losing almost half its initial audience. If you're running a show, and you lose almost half your viewers over the course of a month, and you AREN'T concerned and wondering if tweaks need to be made, then that product isn't likely to see the success possible.
Hey, they put a shirt on Evil Uno. THEY ARE LISTENING.
 

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
6,859
This makes the assumption that people weren't just interested as a one-off. Even well-executed wrestling is still wrestling. Maybe some people watched, realized the entire vibe wasn't for them, and checked out. I think they can execute better (this last week was better than any episode they've done previously), but ultimately if you change too much you risk the fanbase you do have tuning out.
I don't think they need to change much. The only change I feel they need is more large wrestlers that will appeal to casual viewers. Wrestlers like Omega need to be on the small end of the scale, not the large end.

Wrestlers like Darby, while we may think he's great, the casual viewer is going to see a scrawny emo kid who is randomly wearing daisy dukes. Or Riho that looks like an 8 year old.

Other than Omega and Jericho (because both are established), I don't see many on the roster that the average TV viewer is going to watch and see a "superstar". Much of the roster looks like random dudes who have never worked out.
 

GillianSeed79

Member
Oct 27, 2017
657
I don't know, as I love product. If I had to take a guess, I'd say it needs more large wrestlers with a presence. I don't think the casual viewer is into these guys that look like they were found working at a gas station before the show started - or that look like they've never seen the inside of a gym.
#wardlow....kidding. I think there's some truth to this, but I also think what makes AEW great is how different it is from WWE, the land of giants. I think if they had a mix of big guys and small guys, like a proper cruiserweight division, it'd be great.
 
Oct 25, 2017
586
Had my gf sit down and watch with me last night. It was her first time ever watching wrestling, though she had heard about AEW starting up. As a side note, I believe that initial hype is what drove such a high debut. Lots of people tuned in out of curiosity. Unfortunately, most were probably like my gf and have no real interest in wrestling and were never going to stick around.

Anyway, from her casual point of view, the two things she enjoyed the most were the comedy and the longer sequences of moves in some of the matches. She has zero interest in two half naked men fighting, but liked it when it appeared that a long sequence of moves or spots were well connected as it made her feel like she was watching a well choreographed play. Her favourites were OC, Jericho and Omega. She loved the brawl at the end and was impressed with the women since she had no idea women wrestled lol.
 

pazinyo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,612
Barnsley, UK
I don't know, as I love product. If I had to take a guess, I'd say it needs more large wrestlers with a presence. I don't think the casual viewer is into these guys that look like they were found working at a gas station before the show started - or that look like they've never seen the inside of a gym.
There aren’t that many of those guys around nowadays, even the larger wrestlers are doing flips and shit to gain higher star ratings.

Two things I wonder if it has hurt AEW is how they initially portrayed Kenny Omega in the first few weeks and a lack of continuity of people appearing on TV every week.

One of their own guys with arguably the biggest buzz about him for people curious about the promotion and they start off with him being cold the first few weeks is certainly a questionable decision.

I haven’t followed the segment by segment ratings but AEW has built new guys up like Darby and Riho and PP but then suddenly they’re gone for weeks.

Hell maybe the people leaving every week and not coming back are people that aren’t into Orange Cassidy’s antics.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,000
I don't think they need to change much. The only change I feel they need is more large wrestlers that will appeal to casual viewers. Wrestlers like Omega need to be on the small end of the scale, not the large end.

Wrestlers like Darby, while we may think he's great, the casual viewer is going to see a scrawny emo kid who is randomly wearing daisy dukes. Or Riho that looks like an 8 year old.

Other than Omega and Jericho (because both are established), I don't see many on the roster that the average TV viewer is going to watch and see a "superstar". Much of the roster looks like random dudes who have never worked out.
If this is the change that needs to happen, then wrestling deserves to fail. I'm....like half joking.
 

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
6,859
There aren’t that many of those guys around nowadays, even the larger wrestlers are doing flips and shit to gain higher star ratings.

Two things I wonder if it has hurt AEW is how they initially portrayed Kenny Omega in the first few weeks and a lack of continuity of people appearing on TV every week.

One of their own guys with arguably the biggest buzz about him for people curious about the promotion and they start off with him being cold the first few weeks is certainly a questionable decision.

I haven’t followed the segment by segment ratings but AEW has built new guys up like Darby and Riho and PP but then suddenly they’re gone for weeks.

Hell maybe the people leaving every week and not coming back are people that aren’t into Orange Cassidy’s antics.
All good points, IDK.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,046
I just saw the ratings for both shows. It looks like AEW directly lost viewers to NXT. That’s really good for WWE. Combined 1.6 million viewers aren’t far off from an Raw show. I think that’s roughly the amount of people who watch wrestling at an whole. I don’t think there’s any way to increase this number much.
 

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
6,859
I just saw the ratings for both shows. It looks like AEW directly lost viewers to NXT. That’s really good for WWE. Combined 1.6 million viewers aren’t far off from an Raw show. I think that’s roughly the amount of people who watch wrestling at an whole. I don’t think there’s any way to increase this number much.
I don't think that's accurate at all. SD on Fox got what, 2.6? Regardless 1.6 isn't even close to the amount who watch wrestling as a whole.
 

Violence Jack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,321
I honestly think AEW needs bigger stars if they want to go back to getting near that 1.4 rating. The one thing I will criticize AEW on is that we're not given a chance to know anything about the wrestlers outside of the big names like Mox, Omega, Jericho, Bucks, Lucha Bros, Pac, Hangman, Cody, and the fact that Britt is a dentist. Where are the promos for the other women wrestlers besides Britt Baker? What about promos for some of the tag teams? The wrestling is great, but great wrestling isn't going to get you very far if the crowd doesn't know or care about them.

But after SS, I fully expect NXT numbers to go right back down to around 600k.
 

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
6,859
I honestly think AEW needs bigger stars if they want to go back to getting near that 1.4 rating. The one thing I will criticize AEW on is that we're not given a chance to know anything about the wrestlers outside of the big names like Mox, Omega, Jericho, Bucks, Lucha Bros, Pac, Hangman, Cody, and the fact that Britt is a dentist. Where are the promos for the other women wrestlers besides Britt Baker? What about promos for some of the tag teams? The wrestling is great, but great wrestling isn't going to get you very far if the crowd doesn't know or care about them.

But after SS, I fully expect NXT numbers to go right back down to around 600k.
Also a good point.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,046
It's been a month. Calm down. Cultivating and sustaining a religious audience is a marathon, not a sprint. The fact they exceeded expectations out of the gate absolutely matters, and all indications are that TNT is happy as shit. They have a non-NBA program in the top 10 that can bring eyeballs to their network year round.
Isn’t Cody going on inside the NBA tonight to hype up Full Gear?
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
655
Again, nobody is talking about worrying about cancellation.
But that’s all that really matters. It’s been a really fun show to watch. They’re doing more than good enough to continue on and grow from here. As a fan, that’s all I care about. I couldn’t care less who chooses to watch WWE.

This is too much focus on the 1.4 million. Ok, they popped a giant first week rating that they haven’t come close to matching. But they’ve maintained a solid audience in the ~750,000-1,000,000 range that has beaten NXT every week. They’re doing great! If when AEW was announced, and you were told they drew 800,000 viewers and beat NXT, would people have believed that, let alone been disappointed by it? I just don’t get being on the ledge over this.

The absolute wrong takeaway from all of this is they need to change course from what they are doing. The show has been a big success by any metric so far!
 

auicc

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
113
Isn’t Cody going on inside the NBA tonight to hype up Full Gear?
It's "Le Champion" Chris Jericho. I wonder how it will go so I'm watching. Since people are complaining about not enough big men on tv, they should get Shaq lol.

Also for a company thats only about to be 1 year in, they have probably destroyed earlier numbers in regards to fans. It took every other company years to get more of a base and I wouldn't be surprised if it took a couple of years to get bigger. They have to fight off the stigma that WWE put on professional wrestling as a whole these last 20 years.
 

megalowho

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,092
New York, NY
Being obsessed with weekly ratings and going in panic mode accordingly is EXACTLY what TNA did.
I don't really understand it in 2019. Don't follow WWE but can see it's part of the culture of the fandom, just doesn't seem as relevant as it may have been 10, 20 years ago. I've been streaming AEW shows exclusively from the TNT app and I'm sure plenty of others do as well.
 

Net_Wrecker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,949
Folks have to realize the audience for 3rd tier shows isn't as big as it once was. Raw and Smackdown are weekly institutions where the people still watching tune in mostly out of habit and nostalgia. The collapse after the Monday Night Wars was gargantuan, and has only been sliding every year since then, with the WWE driving people away even more in recent years before the Heyman "shakeup" stabilized it a bit this year. AEW is fighting that uphill battle. They have to establish themselves over dozens of big shows, building stars and proving they can reach the boiling point in feuds consistently. That big first rating was because of a ridiculous groundswell over the last 8 months combined with WWE really cratering in interest. It was a freak occurrence where everything aligned. Does that mean they'll never hit those numbers again? No. Does that mean anyone should obsess over the fact that a new 4th 2-hour wrestling program lost part of its audience since then? Also no. The business is in a weird place right now. Give it time.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
655
Being obsessed with weekly ratings and going in panic mode accordingly is EXACTLY what TNA did.
Well, and WWE too. I mean, look at what's happening with NXT. Using an NXT invasion to the main roster, and having main roster appear on NXT, is their panic button. They pushed it after a month, popped their rating, and still didn't beat AEW. Should they be celebrating right now? This is their typical short term buzz move that isn't sustainable and has diminishing returns.

The week-to-week changes have not been very big and there's no longer a downtrend. I surely hope they aren't micro-analyzing these and changing their booking plans because of them.
 

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
6,859
Well, and WWE too. I mean, look at what's happening with NXT. Using an NXT invasion to the main roster, and having main roster appear on NXT, is their panic button. They pushed it after a month, popped their rating, and still didn't beat AEW. Should they be celebrating right now? This is their typical short term buzz move that isn't sustainable and has diminishing returns.

The week-to-week changes have not been very big and there's no longer a downtrend. I surely hope they aren't micro-analyzing these and changing their booking plans because of them.
No longer a downtrend? Until there is a single bounce, there has been nothing but declines. That is the very definition of a downtrend. lol

edit: I was wrong, the ratings went up slightly this week. Still there there needs to be more than one week of increase to longer be a downtrend.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
655
789,000 -> 822,000 (0.33 to 0.35 in the key demo)

The 1.4 million was clearly an outlier. Their viewership range has been within a less than 250,000 range since then. If this is where they're settling, it's really solid.
 

RyougaSaotome

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,027
I honestly think AEW needs to stay the course here. Like others have said, focusing on that one initial huge number is the wrong way to go about this considering how the stars aligned for that.

I'm absolutely down with AEW responding to things, and I think they've done that well so far with smaller tweaks and shifts. What I don't want are huge changes to something that ultimately doesn't need them. Honestly, as long as they're happy with the numbers and they're good enough to make this worth doing, I'm down.

Honestly, I'm still stunned by the fact that it has been beating NXT in the ratings every week. Not from a product quality perspective, but from a "WWE fans just kind of watch WWE shit out of habit," so I assumed they'd be eating AEW alive. That that's not the case is fucking awesome.
 

pazinyo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,612
Barnsley, UK
Being obsessed with weekly ratings and going in panic mode accordingly is EXACTLY what TNA did.
This is a more than fair point.


I would also go back to what DrewFu said in one of his posts RE: Larger wrestlers.

Maybe larger wrestlers is the wrong way to phrase it, I think more appropriate would be that AEW could absolutely use more in-ring variety.

Let’s be fair.....if you’re not into your flippy guys and the indie style of wrestling then you’re not going to enjoy most of what the AEW roster offers.
 

Porcupine

Member
Oct 27, 2017
314
Folks have to realize the audience for 3rd tier shows isn't as big as it once was. Raw and Smackdown are weekly institutions where the people still watching tune in mostly out of habit and nostalgia. The collapse after the Monday Night Wars was gargantuan, and has only been sliding every year since then, with the WWE driving people away even more in recent years before the Heyman "shakeup" stabilized it a bit this year. AEW is fighting that uphill battle. They have to establish themselves over dozens of big shows, building stars and proving they can reach the boiling point in feuds consistently. That big first rating was because of a ridiculous groundswell over the last 8 months combined with WWE really cratering in interest. It was a freak occurrence where everything aligned. Does that mean they'll never hit those numbers again? No. Does that mean anyone should obsess over the fact that a new 4th 2-hour wrestling program lost part of its audience since then? Also no. The business is in a weird place right now. Give it time.
I totally agree and the last thing they should do at the moment is change their show. They're on a roll.