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P A Z

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,915
Barnsley, UK
Just reading the replies from when the show was going and it's astounding, tbh. t

lmfao no it's a reaction to the thread from when the show was on. People tuning out to a match that is clearly a Saturday Morning Cartoon. Guess what! Great ending that felt like... guess what... a saturday morning cartoon. Freaking out over Avalon and Spears walking out before knowing Darby was part of the match. No patience in here.

I was thinking something similar while reading the changing the channel shit earlier, this is why they couldn't hold off on the MJF turn for another 6 months because people have no patience these days. In two months time the same people would be bored of MJF or saying they should've turned him earlier.

Wrestling fans being fickle isn't a new phenomenon, however it's 2019 and some of what worked back in 1999 just won't fly anymore, certainly not with some parts of the audience.

Going back to changing the channel as soon as *insert guy I don't like* comes out, it does make me wonder if it actually would be better for AEW to bring out a Darby before they bring out an Avalon and stop that talk from even happening. AEW know people aren't watching for Avalon or for Spears right now but they're not guys where you wanna see them get their arse kicked so in light of having parts of their audience being so fickle that they can't hang around for 30 seconds to see who the other guy is, wouldn't AEW be better by bringing out the stars of the segment first?
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,127
I was thinking something similar while reading the changing the channel shit earlier, this is why they couldn't hold off on the MJF turn for another 6 months because people have no patience these days. In two months time the same people would be bored of MJF or saying they should've turned him earlier.

Wrestling fans being fickle isn't a new phenomenon, however it's 2019 and some of what worked back in 1999 just won't fly anymore, certainly not with some parts of the audience.

Going back to changing the channel as soon as *insert guy I don't like* comes out, it does make me wonder if it actually would be better for AEW to bring out a Darby before they bring out an Avalon and stop that talk from even happening. AEW know people aren't watching for Avalon or for Spears right now but they're not guys where you wanna see them get their arse kicked so in light of having parts of their audience being so fickle that they can't hang around for 30 seconds to see who the other guy is, wouldn't AEW be better by bringing out the stars of the segment first?

It's a tough call. I was definitely one of those guys last night thinking about what's channel-change worthy, and it's not because I'm fickle, but because I want this company to succeed so damn hard. :) I actually love or like every single performer they have, and I'll watch everything they ever do. I'm in it, ride or die.

It's the more casual fans or potential fans I'm thinking about. Dark Order has a niche appeal even though I like them. Shawn Spears' entrance is too long even though I enjoy it. Peter Avalon is annoying even though I find him entertaining and think his face is hilariously perfect. These three things in particular will likely contribute to viewership drops yesterday once the quarter hour reports come out.

As you said, people don't have the same attention spans. I run a fairly successful YouTube channel and just launched a 22-minute video. 75% of people stuck around for minute 4, and only 10% stuck around for the full 22 minutes. This is the age we live in: people need a BANG of some kind every 20 to 30 seconds to stay engaged.

All that said, I really enjoyed the show last night. There were so many great things to recommend it! The show is perfect for me and my tastes, so they've done a good job of winning fans like me back, but they'll need to be more prudent to attract more than just lapsed fans such as myself.

I haven't given a shit about a weekly wrestling show to this degree since like 1998. It's weird. But I love it. I'm trying to be a bit of an ambassador for the promotion too by talking to my friends and co-workers about it, posting about it once every four weeks or so on my family and friends FB page. These are the people they need to attract to grow, and my wife would neeeever want to sit through a Dark Order match right now.

Then again, AEW has said they're going to provide a buffet. Not everything is meant for everyone, while at the same time, there IS something for everyone. Maybe we just need to accept that aspect of AEW and accept that it's for hardcores as well as casuals.

Really hope they grew in the ratings this week, especially off the back of that great second hour.
 

Stone Cold

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,466
TV in general is never going to be what it was 10-20 years ago. 800,000-1mil should feel like a great achievement for a first year program. I think they could be a 1.2-1.5 mil show after a year or two of consistent high-quality wrestling, but it won't be easy by any stretch to accomplish that. What I really hope is that they dont change the formula up too much, because it's pretty solid, but instead make small changes week to week to keep it fresh. Maybe have a couple more promo segments one week and non-stop matches the next. Throw in a few interview segments with some interference and fist fights... Right now it feels a touch samey as far as the formula goes, but its it's enjoyable as all hell too
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,127
TV in general is never going to be what it was 10-20 years ago. 800,000-1mil should feel like a great achievement for a first year program. I think they could be a 1.2-1.5 mil show after a year or two of consistent high-quality wrestling, but it won't be easy by any stretch to accomplish that. What I really hope is that they dont change the formula up too much, because it's pretty solid, but instead make small changes week to week to keep it fresh. Maybe have a couple more promo segments one week and non-stop matches the next. Throw in a few interview segments with some interference and fist fights... Right now it feels a touch samey as far as the formula goes, but its it's enjoyable as all hell too

I think they've been doing a good job of changing things up week to week. The last two weeks have found the most perfect balance of promos/wrestling/angles, and I hope they'll keep this up. I'd be surprised if we had another brawl next week, but I have to say that AEW does the best layered brawls in the business, so I won't mind if they do another one.
 

CenaToon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,284
People acknowledging backstage cameras

tenor.gif


Joey Janela's been one of my favorite dudes in wrestling since he summoned Scott Hall to grant him 3 wishes.

How many segments with "invisible cameras" we had so far? i think just 1. Tony Said he is not a fan of invisible camera and he is showing it
 

Fitts

You know what that means
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,200
Loving the idea of a tenuous Jericho/MJF alliance. Especially if they're positioning Wardlow to be MJF's muscle like Hager is Jericho's muscle. When things get tense between Jericho/MJF, the goons can have their own confrontation. It's a perfect use for the big dude archetype in this organization because they can't deliver the same excitement of the more athletic guys. And hey, not everyone can be Luchasaurus.

Really hoping that Mox/Darby leads to an alliance born out of mutual respect as well.
 

P A Z

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,915
Barnsley, UK
It's a tough call. I was definitely one of those guys last night thinking about what's channel-change worthy, and it's not because I'm fickle, but because I want this company to succeed so damn hard. :) I actually love or like every single performer they have, and I'll watch everything they ever do. I'm in it, ride or die.

It's the more casual fans or potential fans I'm thinking about. Dark Order has a niche appeal even though I like them. Shawn Spears' entrance is too long even though I enjoy it. Peter Avalon is annoying even though I find him entertaining and think his face is hilariously perfect. These three things in particular will likely contribute to viewership drops yesterday once the quarter hour reports come out.

As you said, people don't have the same attention spans. I run a fairly successful YouTube channel and just launched a 22-minute video. 75% of people stuck around for minute 4, and only 10% stuck around for the full 22 minutes. This is the age we live in: people need a BANG of some kind every 20 to 30 seconds to stay engaged.

All that said, I really enjoyed the show last night. There were so many great things to recommend it! The show is perfect for me and my tastes, so they've done a good job of winning fans like me back, but they'll need to be more prudent to attract more than just lapsed fans such as myself.

I haven't given a shit about a weekly wrestling show to this degree since like 1998. It's weird. But I love it. I'm trying to be a bit of an ambassador for the promotion too by talking to my friends and co-workers about it, posting about it once every four weeks or so on my family and friends FB page. These are the people they need to attract to grow, and my wife would neeeever want to sit through a Dark Order match right now.

Then again, AEW has said they're going to provide a buffet. Not everything is meant for everyone, while at the same time, there IS something for everyone. Maybe we just need to accept that aspect of AEW and accept that it's for hardcores as well as casuals.

Really hope they grew in the ratings this week, especially off the back of that great second hour.
I get the concern for the ratings, I want this all to succeed as much as anyone else, but I'm not gonna agonise over them and I think if you're watching AEW, particularly if you've been watching from the start and not just Dynamite, then I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt, you're either watching to see new faces or you're watching with the understanding of what it takes to build new stars. You can't just give a nobody like Darby Allin the title after one or two wins, he is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but look at how quickly his rep is rising. He could be massive in a years time but you can't rush things.

Like this isn't the first time Avalon has been on Dynamite, it's the second or third, and whenever he shows up he gets his arse kicked by a star like Moxley or Darby, they know what they're doing with that character, it's time to stop panicking when Avalon shows up and time to start getting excited for who's gonna show up to deal with him.

And like you say, AEW is like a buffet, for better or worse, not everything is gonna appeal to everyone and if you go back and check the segments I'm sure that even guys like Omega have lost viewers, different tastes and all that I won't get into it lol.

When I see some of the things that gain or lose viewers across NXT/AEW it really shows me that we really don't even have a basic understanding of how ratings work and what things work or don't work with different groups of people and so I just try to stay away from it all and say that as long as the ratings are good enough to keep the show going that's good enough for me as the viewer. Let Khan, Cody etc worry about the ratings.
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,127
I get the concern for the ratings, I want this all to succeed as much as anyone else, but I'm not gonna agonise over them and I think if you're watching AEW, particularly if you've been watching from the start and not just Dynamite, then I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt, you're either watching to see new faces or you're watching with the understanding of what it takes to build new stars. You can't just give a nobody like Darby Allin the title after one or two wins, he is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but look at how quickly his rep is rising. He could be massive in a years time but you can't rush things.

Like this isn't the first time Avalon has been on Dynamite, it's the second or third, and whenever he shows up he gets his arse kicked by a star like Moxley or Darby, they know what they're doing with that character, it's time to stop panicking when Avalon shows up and time to start getting excited for who's gonna show up to deal with him.

And like you say, AEW is like a buffet, for better or worse, not everything is gonna appeal to everyone and if you go back and check the segments I'm sure that even guys like Omega have lost viewers, different tastes and all that I won't get into it lol.

When I see some of the things that gain or lose viewers across NXT/AEW it really shows me that we really don't even have a basic understanding of how ratings work and what things work or don't work with different groups of people and so I just try to stay away from it all and say that as long as the ratings are good enough to keep the show going that's good enough for me as the viewer. Let Khan, Cody etc worry about the ratings.

I'm in general agreement on "if the network is happy and the show's still on TV, that's all that matters," but I also want it to grow and be even more successful, same as you. :) That's why I do check in on the viewership each week: to make sure they're doing enough to stay on TV, but also hoping they'll grow their audience. I'm into the analytics of it even if we don't fully understand them.

That said, I think ratings are only a part of the whole picture. For instance, I don't contribute to AEW's ratings at all. I'm not counted as a viewer, period. But I've put down $50 for their last two shows, I'll be buying some AEW merch in the near future, and the second they come to Montreal or Toronto, I'll happily splurge $200-$300 to see them live and to have a hell of a time.

...but I'm not a recognized television viewer.

So yeah, I know TV ratings, and Nielsen ratings in particular, only give a very general idea of how things are going. More than anything, I just watch and enjoy the show, and I'm happy to see so many other people watching and enjoying it as well.
 

P A Z

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,915
Barnsley, UK
I know I asked not to talk about the other company the other day but I think this says a lot about the number they done on me and I just wanna see if I'm alone here.

I don't wanna watch **** on Dark next week just in case **** still signs for the Empire.

I watched **** a couple of times on an indie a few weeks ago and was very impressed by them and then the report came out that they'd turned to the dark side and even after just two matches, I felt like I'd wasted my time watching them.

If **** has a contract with AEW, entitled as it sounds, then I wanna know about it.
 

SpaceSong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,013
I know I asked not to talk about the other company the other day but I think this says a lot about the number they done on me and I just wanna see if I'm alone here.

I don't wanna watch **** on Dark next week just in case **** still signs for the Empire.

I watched **** a couple of times on an indie a few weeks ago and was very impressed by them and then the report came out that they'd turned to the dark side and even after just two matches, I felt like I'd wasted my time watching them.

If **** has a contract with AEW, entitled as it sounds, then I wanna know about it.
They had their own tron when they came out in the footage that I saw. UFOs and shit. Very them.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
5,559
I know I asked not to talk about the other company the other day but I think this says a lot about the number they done on me and I just wanna see if I'm alone here.

I don't wanna watch **** on Dark next week just in case **** still signs for the Empire.

I watched **** a couple of times on an indie a few weeks ago and was very impressed by them and then the report came out that they'd turned to the dark side and even after just two matches, I felt like I'd wasted my time watching them.

If **** has a contract with AEW, entitled as it sounds, then I wanna know about it.

Thinking about it, I wonder if the reason she was pissed at that Casey person is that she really didn't sign with WWE and thought that report could screw up her signing with AEW?
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,127
At least we know Big Swole is actually signed now.

Emi Sakura, Shanna (3 years according to Wiki), and Sadie Gibbs are all on the official AEW roster page now too. Though Yuka Sakazaki is there too, so who knows about some of these...
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,127
Yuka will be back based on situation from the hardcore Joshi guys in the Wrestling thread here.

Let's hope so. They're developing a hell of a roster on paper. Minus a few spotty workers here and there, they're looking strong.

Riho
Shanna
Big Swole
Bea
Nyla
Britt
Allie
Penelope
Yuka
Emi
Kong

---

(not signed but have appeared)
Mercedes Martinez
Shazza McKenzie
Jamie Hayter
***** from Dark this week
The one who fought Nyla

They've got a ton of potential and it's only going to get better IMO. Sounds like the Dark match from this week was good too!
 

thepenguin55

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,815
I was thinking something similar while reading the changing the channel shit earlier, this is why they couldn't hold off on the MJF turn for another 6 months because people have no patience these days. In two months time the same people would be bored of MJF or saying they should've turned him earlier.

Wrestling fans being fickle isn't a new phenomenon, however it's 2019 and some of what worked back in 1999 just won't fly anymore, certainly not with some parts of the audience.

Going back to changing the channel as soon as *insert guy I don't like* comes out, it does make me wonder if it actually would be better for AEW to bring out a Darby before they bring out an Avalon and stop that talk from even happening. AEW know people aren't watching for Avalon or for Spears right now but they're not guys where you wanna see them get their arse kicked so in light of having parts of their audience being so fickle that they can't hang around for 30 seconds to see who the other guy is, wouldn't AEW be better by bringing out the stars of the segment first?
It's a tough call. I was definitely one of those guys last night thinking about what's channel-change worthy, and it's not because I'm fickle, but because I want this company to succeed so damn hard. :) I actually love or like every single performer they have, and I'll watch everything they ever do. I'm in it, ride or die.

It's the more casual fans or potential fans I'm thinking about. Dark Order has a niche appeal even though I like them. Shawn Spears' entrance is too long even though I enjoy it. Peter Avalon is annoying even though I find him entertaining and think his face is hilariously perfect. These three things in particular will likely contribute to viewership drops yesterday once the quarter hour reports come out.

As you said, people don't have the same attention spans. I run a fairly successful YouTube channel and just launched a 22-minute video. 75% of people stuck around for minute 4, and only 10% stuck around for the full 22 minutes. This is the age we live in: people need a BANG of some kind every 20 to 30 seconds to stay engaged.

All that said, I really enjoyed the show last night. There were so many great things to recommend it! The show is perfect for me and my tastes, so they've done a good job of winning fans like me back, but they'll need to be more prudent to attract more than just lapsed fans such as myself.

I haven't given a shit about a weekly wrestling show to this degree since like 1998. It's weird. But I love it. I'm trying to be a bit of an ambassador for the promotion too by talking to my friends and co-workers about it, posting about it once every four weeks or so on my family and friends FB page. These are the people they need to attract to grow, and my wife would neeeever want to sit through a Dark Order match right now.

Then again, AEW has said they're going to provide a buffet. Not everything is meant for everyone, while at the same time, there IS something for everyone. Maybe we just need to accept that aspect of AEW and accept that it's for hardcores as well as casuals.

Really hope they grew in the ratings this week, especially off the back of that great second hour.

Yeah, pretty much agree with everything you both said here. I want to be clear in that I can be critical of certain things because I'm just that way with things I like. I'm definitely in for the long haul. As I've said before, this is the first time in 15 years that I've wanted to tune in week to week for wrestling. Also it's just nice to have a well produced product that doesn't have McMahon or Levesque stink on it.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,087
I think they might make the winner of the ring get all over his head and make his own championship belt, as a way to build up a new belt, as otherwise it might end up being a bit "what makes this belt unique a not the second tier belt?" when they introduce the secondary belt.
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,127
So wait, is the AEW ring going to be a championship?

I think it grants you control of the lights in any arena. You thought they were overusing the lights out gimmick before? You ain't seen nothing yet.

(I actually think the lights out stuff is totally fine and that it's nitpicking and looking for things to complain about if you honestly have a problem with how they use it or have used it: Spears, Cody, Dark Order, and Orange Cassidy so far, right?)
 

Mingoguaya

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,859
Let's hope so. They're developing a hell of a roster on paper. Minus a few spotty workers here and there, they're looking strong.

Riho
Shanna
Big Swole
Bea
Nyla
Britt
Allie
Penelope
Yuka
Emi
Kong

---

(not signed but have appeared)
Mercedes Martinez
Shazza McKenzie
Jamie Hayter
***** from Dark this week
The one who fought Nyla

They've got a ton of potential and it's only going to get better IMO. Sounds like the Dark match from this week was good too!
I'm VERY offended that Hikaru Shida is not on this list. 🤦🏽‍♂️
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,127
Meltzer says they may get Full Gear numbers today.


So we can look forward to double the numbers disappointment than usual later 😐.

Are you ready to tie your emotional health and therefore how you interact with your friends and family in the next few hours to the viewership numbers of a fraudulent sport?
 
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